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#1
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A couple of articles on being "alpha"
I found these to be an interesting read, and perhaps the starting point for an interesting discussion........
![]() http://www.kathysdao.com/articles.html Quote:
http://www.seattledogs.com/Article1.htm Quote:
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#2
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I don't agree!
I lived in a rural area (and still visit often) and dogs are just like wolves. I found when local residents allowed their dogs to roam, they formed packs and hunted (just like wolves) often killing livestock. And they did have a hierarchy I saw it with my own eyes. Yes there was the odd dog at the dump, but when there was more then one, they became a pack and moved around, and hunted. I also saw domestic dog packs chasing deer to exhaustion and eventual death.
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What is man without beasts? If all the beasts were gone, men would die from great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected. ~~Chief Seattle (Duwamish tribe)~~ |
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#3
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I am having a difficult time digesting this as well. Some points I get and others are questionable.
First of all leadership means there is someone that will lead and someone will follow. In saying this the leader SHOULD be man and the follower is dog. The leader is taking the role of 'pack leader' that being the alpha and the beta or omega is the dog. Dog are absolutely 'pack animals'. When going to the dogpark for instance, you can plainly see the formation of a pack that responds in a hierarchy while dominence is established. At the same time a submissive dog is usually targetted by ALL the dogs within the 'pack' as well as outside straggelers usually take suit as well. After all the studies on animal behaviour and the training that most trainers take this study really is what the new way of thinking has now become. There is a new movement going forward saying that the training methods that are used are no longer applicable because dogs are not decendants from wolves and therefore the previous philosophy on how to correct behaviour or how to train certain behaviours should no longer be applied. If it is not broken - don't fix it. If we look at how many well behaved dogs we have in society then I say keep doing what we are doing and lets not waste time dissecting everything if it worked in the first place. And you are right by the way - when domestic abandoned dogs form a 'pack' they do so for survival and instinct. They also form packs for companionship which is required for every living species... |
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#4
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From the first article, I disagree about the pack thing. I too have seen pack dynamics in both domestic and unsocialized groups of dogs, and who have hunted cooperatively. I know at least half a dozen people whose family dogs have pulled off an elegant, coordinated kill of a wild animal (deer, etc.). Secondly, if the dogs are naturally "dependant" on humans as per the final paragraph, then why is it that so many untrained dog seem to think that they have a right to have anything they want, whenever they want it, and that they can discipline humans that give them a hard time? I'm sorry, I don't see it. People need to be more than parents to their dogs, or, god forbid, simply providers of food, they need to be the one to provide guidance, set boundaries, AND provide resources. Who else is going to do that? And while many humans are hopeless when it comes to reading dog body language, it's not impossible to pick up at least the rudimentary parts, and dogs are acutely aware of and able to interpret human body language.
Second article...I see inconsistencies here too. Leader = boss = alpha IMO. Humans must always be the leader/boss/alpha. If you don't want to CALL it alpha, fine, but semantics aside, it all means the same thing. Dogs want a leader, and if they don't get one, they become one. Not allowing your dog to get away with pushy (ie dominant) behaviour is simply another way of saying "assert your own dominance/leadership/whatever." On the matter of top-ranking dogs not using physical means to assert authority...nonsense. Dogs use everything from light touches with the nose to hard open-mouth hits to the cheek to correct and discipline other dogs. It's not just psychology...while there's little permanent damage or long-term pain done during these actions, they can still be very forceful. (check out this series of great pictures of an alpha female disciplining a young pup for overstepping his bounds... http://rufflyspeaking.wordpress.com/...body-language/ ). I see this all the time with my own three-pack. I seriously think that pretty much everybody agrees on the basics of what role a human has to play when it comes to their dogs, but I think folks get so hung up on the LANGUAGE that's used to describe it that it pits one "group" against the others.
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Owned by: Solomon - black DSH - king of kitchen raids (11) Gracie - Mutterooski X - scary smart (9) Jaida - GSD - tripod trainwreck and gentle soul (4) Heidi - mugsly Boston Terrier X - she is in BIG trouble!!! (3) Audrey - torbie - sweet as pie (11 months) Patrick - blue - a little turd (but we like him anyways) (6 months) __________ Boo, our Matriarch (August 1 1992 - March 29 2011) ![]() Riley and Molly
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#5
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Goodness Bendyfoot - you said everything! You are absolutely right - people are getting hung up on the wording.
Personally, I find this article dangerous. Food, water, shelter are the basic necessities and our responsibility goes much further than this. These basics are the MINIMUMS of what the law dictates - which proves that it just is not enough. |
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#6
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Quote:
![]() I feel like I read them very differently than the perspectives that seem to be being expressed. To me, it's actually more than a semantic argument, it's a shift away from an often antagonistic vision of the human/dog relationship. I don't personally disagree at all with the idea that dogs need structure, routine, boundries, etc. but this is not the same thing, again, just to me, as seeing things within a dominant/submissive structure. I think it's possible to see the value in providing these things, while also understanding the relationship as more complex and subject to context than a strict dominance/submission dichotomy would allow for. I guess it's been my experience that a lot gets missed when we label behaviors with the umbrella of 'dominance', and the idea that my dogs are engaging me in a power struggle has not proven very helpful. On the other hand, shifting my understanding towards something more multifaceted has improved how I live with my dogs. This does not mean I allow them to run amuck or that I don't expect certain things of them, I just don't understand them complying as being out of submission. Anyways, I think it's an interesting and ongoing dialog, which was my motivation for posting those two articles.
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#7
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I think that this article definately gets the juices going. I aswell can appreciate some of the context but I am not sold on most.
To be honest, alot of this is interpretation. Everyone who takes the time to read this will have their own way of looking at it. I think it is good reading in a sense that it is another perspective - and I am always open to learning something new or new idiology anyways. There is nothing wrong with putting something else forward, but I am old school I guess though I would probably benefit from reading this again. |
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#8
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Quote:
__________________
Owned by: Solomon - black DSH - king of kitchen raids (11) Gracie - Mutterooski X - scary smart (9) Jaida - GSD - tripod trainwreck and gentle soul (4) Heidi - mugsly Boston Terrier X - she is in BIG trouble!!! (3) Audrey - torbie - sweet as pie (11 months) Patrick - blue - a little turd (but we like him anyways) (6 months) __________ Boo, our Matriarch (August 1 1992 - March 29 2011) ![]() Riley and Molly
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