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Old July 9th, 2004, 10:13 AM
Heather MH's Avatar
Heather MH Heather MH is offline
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Trouble House Training

HI !

I am embaressed to ask this, but I know you all give such good advice. I have 2 11month old BC and they are not 100% house trained yet. When we are home no problem they ask to go outside and they still get praise everytime they do. They don not have acccidents when we are around. They use to be in the basement of our old house during the day. They had everything to keep them ocuppied but they still went to the bathroom. So we made them a big cage down stairs (12'Lx6'Hx6'W) thinking they wouldn't go in a smaller space first few days they were great. June 1 we moved into a new house and decided it would be best to put them in there kennels during the day, just until they were trained. Trust me I didn't like the idea but it was suppose to only train them. I make sure someone goes once sometimes twice to let them out during the day and play with them. With no accidents in almost a month we left them out of there kennels in the morning a couple days ago knowing my sister would be there within 3 hours. When she got there they had went a bunch upstairs. I don't understand, will they ever be able to be out during the day unsupervised.

Any suggestions would be greatly appriciated.
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Old July 9th, 2004, 10:25 AM
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The answer is that you need to train them, not just confine them. They've learned to hold it but still don't know where it's ok to go. Confinement doesn't teach them that. You have to.
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Old July 9th, 2004, 10:31 AM
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Heather MH Heather MH is offline
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But ...

But they do know, if someone is home we don't even have to watch for signs they ask to go outside. It has been months since they have had an accident when we are home.
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Old July 9th, 2004, 10:36 AM
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Sorry, I should have read your post more closely.
Do you have a fenced yard? I've always sworn by a doggy door so that my dog can go in & out whenever.
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Old July 9th, 2004, 10:42 AM
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Good idea 'lass, a doggy door might work great! Is it poop or pee that they're going?
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Old July 9th, 2004, 10:49 AM
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Most often poop.
Our house is brand new as of June 1st so we just did the lawn last weekend and the fence is coming soon. We were suppose to be going to Mexico the first week in August but we opted to stay home for our holidays and built a fence. We take them to my parents and they just love to be outside, and its so nice to know they are fine. They stay in our yard with out a fence but we watch the whole time the don't quite have the freedom they or I would like them to have.
Doggy door is a great idea, I have looked at them but the only way into our back yard is through the patio door. I don't think that will work!!
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Old July 9th, 2004, 11:09 AM
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There are doggie doors in panels that will fit into a sliding glass door. You can also install a door directly into the wall and it can be finished off so that it will look quite nice.
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Old July 9th, 2004, 11:13 AM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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It's easy to understand. These dogs just are not housetrained. How old were they when you started leaving them loose in the basement all day? From your post, I get the impression that you thought they would train themselves as they got older.

They think it's perfectly okay to go in the house when you are NOT HOME, and since there was no one around to teach them otherwise, they never got trained. All they have learned is not to go in the house when you are home. Putting in a doggy door is not going to train them either since to them - pooping in the house when alone is perfectly alright.

Puppies don't housetrain themselves. You are going to have to start all over, and make sure they never have the opportunity to soil in the house. You cannot leave them loose when you aren't home until they are trained. As soon as you come home, take them to the place you want them to go ON LEASH and praise them greatly when they do go.

Then you can eventually leave them confined to one room is you are out, and if there are messes when you come home, they must go back to being crated.

Leaving them loose in the house will result in them still soiling when they are 5 years old.
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Old July 9th, 2004, 11:33 AM
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Thanks!!!

I'm not meaning to disagree but this is what we do.

As soon as we come home or someone comes to let them out they are taken outside and praised as soon as they go each and everytime. So I guess we will continue this. I totally understand what you are saying and I agree that they are not trained. The one thing we have not tried is taking it one room at a time. We have gone right from the kennels to the whole house, excluding any bedrooms or rooms we can close the door on. If we are to come home to a mess are we suppose to be mad at them? I read once that they can't understand what we are mad at unless he catch them red handed.
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Old July 9th, 2004, 12:19 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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Quote:
If we are to come home to a mess are we suppose to be mad at them?
No, you are supposed to be mad at yourself cause it's your fault they are messing!

Try and look at it this way:

You go and live with someone in a foreign country. They do not speak English and do not teach you the rules of the house. You might fix yourself a snack every day at 2:00p.m. for 10 months when your hosts are not home. Every time the owners come home at 5:00p.m. they scream at you in their language. You have no idea why they are screaming at you, so continue with your snacks.

But one day, they come home just as you are about to make youself the food. They take it from you and scream at you, and put the food away and lock the cabinet until dinner time. Now you may start to understand what it's all about. This happens a few times, and you will no longer take food during the day. The rules may make no sense to you, but you will start to follow them.

Sorry for the silly analogy, but I'm trying to emphasize that if you come home and start scolding the dogs for something they may done hours before, all you will teach them is that it's unpleasant to have you come home, since they have NO idea they are doing wrong, because they were basically taught by YOU that it's OKAY to mess in the house as long as NO ONE IS HOME.
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Old July 9th, 2004, 12:35 PM
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Thats not so much of a silly anthology. I understand what you are saying. But then what could a solution be. If its only when we are not home, how do I get that message through to them. It would be pretty lucky to just come home and catch them. Do you think they will learn when they are put in there kennel the next day. So say they are left out in one room soil in the room and the next day we leave them in there kennels. That seems even harder from them to understand then getting mad at them.
I don't mean to go in circles but this kind of seems like one of those "circle situations" I really wish I could go back in time and train them better when they were babies. I guess if we never make mistakes how are we going to learn from them.

Thanks for all the help, it truley is appriciated.
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Old July 9th, 2004, 01:15 PM
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However you look at it, these two are not ready to be loose in the house yet. I know plenty of GREAT dog owners who crate their dogs daily when they go to work.
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Old July 9th, 2004, 01:30 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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Quote:
I make sure someone goes once sometimes twice to let them out during the day and play with them.
If you have someone doing that, then they can certainly stay in their crates until they are housetrained. Most dogs are not so lucky to have someone come take them out during the day.

Leaving them in the yard will not housetrain them, just as a doggy door will not. A housetrained dog will never eliminate in the house, unless it has diarrhea or other medical condition.

You don't need to go back in time, as these dogs can certainly be housetrained starting NOW. Of course it's easier to prevent mistakes in the beginning then to try and correct behaviour that has been allowed to go on so long, but they can sure learn! I've housetrained 5 yr old greyhounds who have never been IN a house.

Quote:
Do you think they will learn when they are put in there kennel the next day. So say they are left out in one room soil in the room and the next day we leave them in there kennels
NO, they will not learn this way. They will STILL think it's okay to mess when they are left loose in the house, and quite rightfully so. Letting them mess in the house one day and putting them in the crate another day will only teach them that there are certain days that it's o.k. to poop in the house. IF you put them in crates only every other day, they will just think "I guess today we aren't supposed to mess in the house like we usually should do, but tomorrow it will be alright."

You must be consistant - this is the only way to train dogs. They must go in their crate every day and never given an opportunity to soil.

You must NEVER leave them loose until they are trained. Each time they poop on the floor, that behavior is reinforced and they will do it again if allowed to. Having TWO untrained dogs makes it even worse, because they copy each other. Since no one is home to tell them not to, why wouldn't they poop in the house?

I'm sorry if I'm not being clear on this!
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Old July 9th, 2004, 02:08 PM
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Heather MH Heather MH is offline
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your telling me !!!!

Two untrained is difficult, because they do exactly as you say. If one does it the other as well. Same goes for "good" things though they learned tricks from each other.
Do you think that beacuse we didn't succeed training them when they were younger that they will always have to be in there crates during the day? I hope not I want them to have the freedom.
Again thank you for all your help!
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Old July 9th, 2004, 02:25 PM
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I know several people who keep their dogs crated when they are gone no matter what the age of the dog. There are several safety reasons for a person to do this. The dogs are all fine, well adjusted animals.
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Old July 9th, 2004, 03:13 PM
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I know they don't mind being in there kennels. But I'm also sure they wouldn't mind being in the house being able to interact with each other.
I'm going to continue on they way we have been. With them in there kennels and someone letting them out during the day. I beleive I read somewhere once that BC were difficult to house train? Has anyone heard this is true or am i just making things up to make myself feel better?LOL
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  #17  
Old July 9th, 2004, 05:34 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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I have never crated my dogs, not even when I was working 5 days a week. BUT if I had a puppy, I would crate it for housetraining purposes (but would not get a puppy were I not home during the day.) But that's just me.

BCs are extremely intelligent and easy to train. I don't want to harp on this, but the problem is that you did NOT housetrain them but expected them to train themselves and they are doing exactly what you taught them to do - poop on the floor when no one is home. Hard to get mad at them when are they doing what they think you want.

Once they are completely and reliably housetrained, you may leave them loose in the house, but as I said - one room at a time and if there are accidents, go back a step.
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Old July 10th, 2004, 02:27 PM
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Heather MH Heather MH is offline
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Thanks for all the advice. We will continue on and hopefully it will all work out.
They are great puppies with this one exception and all though hard at times we do not blame them,we know it is our fault.
Thank again
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