Cat declawing

[Writing4Fun]

Originally Posted by boris

Why is it when somebody makes an excellent point that totally contradicts your point of view, it's automatically a "troll?" You still haven't answered the question...How is it "humane" to keep a fish inside a shoebox-sized glass container for every minute of its worthless life? Precisely what makes the life of Charlie the Tuna any less important than the life of Morris the Cat, and just who are you to make that determination?

You can contradict me all you like. What makes you a troll is that you have done nothing but insult people with every post you make. Your points are not excellent, they are insulting and confrontational - hence the "troll" qualification.

My aquarium is also larger than a shoebox. Why is the fish's life "worthless"? The fish's life is no less important than the cat's. The fish live in an aquarium proportional to their size. They are healthy and well-fed. Morris has proven that his intelligence and capability to feel emotions far oustrips that of Charlie, and he provides affection and companionship. And he can breathe air, which is why he is allowed to roam free in my home.

You have stated, "The whole concept of "pet" is strictly to suit the needs of people.". May I ask who are you to make that determination? If you are against keeping fish in aquariums because it is "inhumane", then you must also be against keeping dogs in houses, or horses in stalls, etc... If that is the case, then you have ventured onto the wrong bulleting board because the people here are all pet enthusiasts.

And, yes, it is racist to make the generalization that all food of Oriental origin contains cat meat and parts. If you truly believe that the food you are currently eating does contain cat parts, then may I suggest that you stop eating it and file a report against the restaurant that you ordered it from.

[boris]

Originally Posted by Sneaky2006

First of all you are disgusting, I didn't want to start an arguement with you, I just asked a simple question that I knew you wouldn't/couldn't truthfully answer and you just proved that.
Did you actually think that would be funny to anyone?
You need help, it's ok.. don't be scared, admitting it is the hardest!

You cannot possibly be that naive...Or, apparently are are. Cats and dogs are considered tasty by people all over the world. In North America (Mexico), Central America, Asia, Africa and wherever else your own personal cultural bias doesn't apply. Even in the United States, where immigrants come into the country and do the same thing. The only reason some countries bother to put on a song and dance routine by purportedly "banning" the practice is because of intense public pressure applied by the West. And even then, any purported ban is really just a phony unenforced show to appease the West. Making cat and dog stew is still done all over the place, and nobody but the West cares. For the people eating it, it's perfectly O.K. None of your arguments are based in logic or reason, just pure unadulterated emotion. As this relates to the front paws on a pet cat, when anybody uses emotional buzzwords like "mutilate" to describe a declaw, credibility has instantly taken a holiday.

[Sneaky2006]

Yeah you still didn't make your list, which you said you could. I don't need a lecture from you on anything, nor do I want one.
This thread was about cat declawing, not about eating cat or dog.
Everyone here loves their pets, and I'm sure none agree to eating them. This forum is here for help with pet issues, adoption, training and such. Why exactly are you here?

[chico2]

Boris,what on earth is your problem
I mentioned an aquarium because fish cannot scratch your precious furniture.
Fish as you know,have no memory,so I hardly think it's cruel to keep fish in a large tank.
My cats all came from different situations and yes,I have them to please me,because I love them,my furniture takes a backseat to my cats.
We had a whole different Thread on Asian dinner-practises,maybe you missed it
Your sickening description of what you might be having for lunch,just proves what kind of person you are...got a thrill did you?
By chance are you part of the group who got a high from experimenting on Kensington the cat?
Please take a rest,this Forum is for people who care about their animals.
Lucky,please relieve us from this person.

[boris]

Originally Posted by Sneaky2006

Yeah you still didn't make your list, which you said you could. I don't need a lecture from you on anything, nor do I want one.
This thread was about cat declawing, not about eating cat or dog.
Everyone here loves their pets, and I'm sure none agree to eating them. This forum is here for help with pet issues, adoption, training and such. Why exactly are you here?

O.K....North Korea, South Korea, China, Mexico, Thailand, ad nauseum. Take out your world map and throw three darts. I guarantee at least one of those three darts will hit a country where a guy is now screaming at his wife that Morris and Fido weren't tender. Not to repeat myself, but you evidently read only what you want to read: As this relates to declaws, it's purely your own bias talking. Logic and reason never has bias. All pets are living for our own needs. If you really wanted cats to live in the manner they were supposed to live, then you'd be letting them run free in the woods so they can kill a robin and a mouse.

[Sneaky2006]

Amen sister! (chico)
yeah boris, that list is just as long as the other, I think not.
But I realized that we are fueling his sick mind to make more probs, I am done with him/her/it whatever!

[Lucky Rescue]

According to the Webster-Merriam dictionary:

"Mutiliate":

1 : to cut up or alter radically so as to make imperfect
2 : to cut off or permanently destroy a limb or essential part of

This is hardly an "emotional buzzword", but a definition. To cut off the ends of an animal's toes is a mutiliation. I'm sure that definition would be used if someone cut the ends of YOUR toes off, no?

That other cultures may include cats and dogs in their diets hardly has anything to do with us cutting off the ends of our cat's toes, or dog's ears/tails, merely for convenience, fashion or whim.

As for letting cats "run free in the woods" - cats are semi-domesticated and not suited for life in the wild, if only for the reason that they do not have the reproductive checks and limits of truly wild animals.

[boris]

Originally Posted by LuckyRescue

According to the Webster-Merriam dictionary:

"Mutiliate":

1 : to cut up or alter radically so as to make imperfect
2 : to cut off or permanently destroy a limb or essential part of

This is hardly an "emotional buzzword", but a definition. To cut off the ends of an animal's toes is a mutiliation. I'm sure that definition would be used if someone cut the ends of YOUR toes off, no?

That other cultures may include cats and dogs in their diets hardly has anything to do with us cutting off the ends of our cat's toes, or dog's ears/tails, merely for convenience, fashion or whim.

As for letting cats "run free in the woods" - cats are semi-domesticated and not suited for life in the wild, if only for the reason that they do not have the reproductive checks and limits of truly wild animals.

The color "blue" is a definition. Blue is blue. "Mutilation" is a matter of opinion. An emotional buzzword. The difference between "terrorist" and "freedom fighter." Depends on your point of view. So, I suppose in your opinion, when I was circumcised, I was mutilated. Interesting perspective.

[glasslass]

My opinion:

a. TROLL

b. Not worthy of my time

[AMELIA]

You have to ask yourself why would you be getting the cat declawed? Is the cat is permanently damaging your furniture? I have had cats all my life and had to declaw my last two due to this reason. I tried and tried every alternative, for example scratch posts etc but no way, they still loved my expensive furniture and were doing some major damage. It was either declaw or put up for adoption. So I opted for the declaw. They are fine and now act like nothing ever happened. I have absolutely no regrets. Of course they are both indoor cats only. PS my best friend decided not to declaw because of all the bad things she heard about it, and only lasted two years She just brought her cat home from the vet and from getting declawed. He was an indoor cat also, and did major damage to their furniture. It was replacement time for the furniture and either get rid of the cat or declaw. It sounds cruel to declaw, but at least he has a good, loving home. Again,he is fine.

[chico2]

Boris,your list of countries is proof of how ignorant you really are.China,North-Korea etc...where human rights are non-existing,much less animal-rights,hardly compares to any democratic western society.
Also,on this pet-board,I think we have heard and seen just about anything regarding animal-cruelty,so your little thrillseeking fantasy about eating a kitty,just does not flush.

[AMELIA]

One more thing I wanted to add. If I hadn't declawed my cat both of my children by now would have had scratches to their faces etc. Although Natalie is a loving cat, at times she has swiped both of my kids and myself in the face. I want to emphasise that we did not abuse her or ever hit her either to provoke this. If she had of had claws well who knows what damage she would have done. I was happy she didn't have claws. Again ABSOLUTELY NO REGRETS at getting her declawed.

[chico2]

Amelia,YOU have no regrets and the deed is done....,ok!!
There are hundreds of"indoor"declawed cats at shelters around the country,who"accidentally"got out.I suppose they are the lucky ones,who manage to survive,not being able to defend themselves and climb away from danger.

[Writing4Fun]

I keep coming back to this thread, wanting to reply - and then thinking, "It's all been said already. What more is there to add?". So I won't give my 2-cents worth (again).

But, I will ask - wasn't this thread locked at one point?? Or am I getting confused with another very volatile thread??

[AMELIA]

Yes, I agree about them getting outside can be very bad. That is one thing that you must be always aware of when you do declaw them. I know someone who lets their declawed cat out all the time, (I am shaking my head at it though) and this cat comes home frequently with little surprises--birds etc. Again, it's not the end of the world if they are declawed. Yes you must make sure they don't get outside... The chances that something bad would happen to them outside even if they had their claws is pretty high... I am not going to argue with you, seems like you like that, I just wanted the person who started this to know that it's not the end of the world for the cat. Take care Chico..

[chico2]

Amelia,I am probably the least argumentative person,there are however a few things I absolutely oppose,mutilating cats being one. Take care
W4F,yes I thought this was now a closed subject,but it keeps popping up

[Freyja]

Hey if we want to go totally off topic on this one, many people now consider circumcision to be genital mutilation. The Canadian and American pediatric association no longer recommend it. So yes Boris you were mutilated.

[Catt31]

FOUR pages??? WTF?????? This is absurd and I didn't even read the whole thread!!

Agree with glassy - troll and not worthy of my time!!

[Shae]

Wow, If someone like Boris began posting in the animalrightscafe......he'd be banned. Some people have nothing better to do than come into a forum that is animal friendly and talks about general wellbeing for an animal and argue every point made. I never pretend to know everything about animals....but experience talks. I've worked 16 long years in an anomal hosp as assistant (surgical,etc) Declawing is wrong. Scroll back a couple pages ago to the illustration I posted. If you still think it's acceptable, well, I'm not going to repeat how I feel anymore. There is a reason this procedure is being banned in several countries. Canada needs to pick up the pace and jump on the bandwagon! Glad your cats appear to be doing well. I still bet they'd love to have their toe joints back. The decision ....declaw or find her a good home.....choosing declaw is strictly for selfish reasons. I understand you love your pet, but thats exactly the reason you shouldn't do that to your animal companion. Sharon (Moderator at the AR Cafe)

[pxxiegirl]

I do understand and agree that declawing only benefits the cat owner, not the cat. However, I am a cat owner who would not otherwise be a cat owner if I did not have declawed cats. I have two females whom I took off the hot 100+ degree streets of AZ where coyotes roam at night. I have a 5 year old daughter who was deeply scratched in the first week we had Serendipity. I made the decision to declaw because I am more comfortable with declawed cats in my home. I hope the fact that I am giving these cats a safe, cool, loving home with good food and plenty of water can override the fact that I had their claws removed. They might otherwise be on still on the streets dehydrated, starving, in danger from wildlife and vehicles or taken somewhere to be euthanized. My vet used a lazor which he assured minimizes healing time and pain as well as administering a pain med injection. In a perfect world there would not be so many cats in need of homes. But I feel that a cat owner who declaws is better than no cat owner at all.

[krdahmer]

I would tend to agree with you. I do not declaw, but I have no children and have ample time to train the cats. I did declaw my Cordelia when I had to move back home because the choices were declaw her or find her a new home. I chose to keep her and continue to give her much love and affection, and now I can't imagine it any other way. I think that a loving home is by far the more important issue.

[chico2]

I am and always will be 150% against declawing.Cats do not generally go around attacking scratching people.
If kids get scratched,maybe they need to learn to respect a cat and not treat it like a toy.
My cats are terrified of little kids,who's favourite "thing"seems to be pulling their tail and lugging them around(not that I let any kids do that).Kids need to be made aware of cat do's and don'ts or there will be scratches.
Although I give you kudos for rescuing a couple of needy cats,I still wish you would have saved them from mutilation.

[cutiecherise]

I'm glad you decided not to declaw!

As for kids gettig scratched,
when i was 5 years old, a golden retreiver chased a young orange tabby on my backyard porch,
and me being the little good samaritan,
tried to pull it away from the dog,

Of course, kitty didn't think i was a very good defence mechanism,
but i certainly added some space between him and the dog as he climbed frantically up my face.

I am now 20,
and i still have scars on my cheek from that incident.

...
Do i regret being scratched?
No, not really.
It horrified my parents because it made me so unbearable to look at, and they were ashamed because i'd never be a model, and it hurt a bit,
but
If i were to take back every incident and occassion in which i learned something which could have left a mark,
I would probably have learned very little in my life.

Not that i'm not regularly scratched by cats since that day,
butat least i now know how to hold them so they can't climb up my face while fleeing.

[heeler's rock!]

I am also strongly against declawing a cat, however, I had a similar situation as krd had.

When I got my first kitty ever, Puff, at the Lethbridge Humane Society, she had claws. She is a gorgeous cat, and I loved her to death! I kept her with her claws the whole time I was in Lethbridge and I brought her home to my parents house when I moved back to Calgary. Puff started tearing up my mom's favourite chairs and the side of the couch was gone in a matter of months. All that was left was wood. Puff was doing immense damage to my mom's furniture. I tried getting her used to a scratching post and everything, but my mom insisted that if I didn't get Puff declawed, she wouldn't let me keep her.

I knew people that wanted Puff, but I couldn't bear to say goodbye to my best friend, and I didn't know the people that well. The neighbour said she'd take Puff, but she has 2 horrible, animal abusing kids and I would never EVER subject Puff to that.

I talked to my mom about alternatives like Soft Paws (the rubber caps for claws), but she didn't want to have to replace them every 4 weeks because her nails grew. I tried trimming Puff's nails, it didn't stop her. Finally, my mom said enough. Either Puff got declawed or she was taking her to the humane society. My mom decided to renovate and replace the furniture, and she didn't want Puff destroying the new furniture. My mom was also getting burbur (sp?) carpeting and if you snag it, the whole thing comes undone!

I had no choice. I felt aweful and made my mom miserable for what she had done. I told her that she mutilated Puff and that it wasn't right. I also then told my mom that since she wanted it so bad, Puff was now her responsibility. Since Puff could no longer defend herself, I chose not to bring her with me when I got married, and made my mom and sister her primary caregivers, as I have 3 dogs and it wasn't fair to Puff. Lucily, Puff was okay after the surgery and I tended to her 24/7 to make sure she didn't hurt herself.

My mom is now happy and I still make her feel bad every now and then for declawing Puff, but what's done is done and Puff has a great home with my sister who loves that cat with all her heart. Puff loves my sister too and I couldn't imagine Puff anywhere else.

My 2 cats now are not declawed and never will be. I have been able to train them pretty well though and I trim their nails regularly.

[.unknown.]

Any of the cat's i've had including the one i currently own, have their claws.
The only point in my life i've ever been scratched by them is when they were kittens.

If you can't take the time to train your cat to use a scratching post, or are afraid of the cat scratching your kids or you, don't get one.

I doubt you would bring a dog into your home if you thought it would bite your children. Like someone said earlier, when a cat has no claws it tend to bite. Cat bites are not pretty. A friend's husband got bit by their cat and ended up with a blood infection. They carry bad bacteria in their mouths.

And to be honest,My dog has scratched me more in her younger days than both mine and friends cats combined.

Animals really, when involved with humans have no other choice but to adjust to whatever the human wants.... So why make it painful and uncomfortable?

I'm fairly sure i've only reiterated what has already been said, i doubt it will change anyone's minds...

i still fail to see how cutting off a cat's toes is for it's own health.

if you have other pets, you can train them too.

but maybe it's just easier to alter your cat.

i dunno.

it's didn't seem like that much work for me..