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  #61  
Old June 20th, 2008, 06:27 PM
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Be sure to let us know what happens.
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  #62  
Old June 20th, 2008, 06:35 PM
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will do for sure
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  #63  
Old June 20th, 2008, 08:42 PM
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I do hope it's nothing at all.
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  #64  
Old June 20th, 2008, 08:58 PM
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Thanks angeldogs.

k so im a worry wart and started to google it and eased my mind a little. From
http://www.2ndchance.info/fibrosarcoma.htm I found:
Quote:
Do remember that approximately 99.98 percent of cats do not develop post-vaccination tumors. However, in a very small percentage of cats, a post-vaccination inflammation develops under the skin. These reactions are abscess caused by irritation and inflammation due to vaccine components. The reactions occur 7 – 12 days after a vaccine is given, and feel like small, firm lumps under the skin. They are not painful and last a week or two. They usually subside without any lasting effect.
of course Bunduk and Jasper have to be not part of the 99.98% . But the 7-12 days (more on the 12 side) does make sense with the timeline of Bunduk's lump. I first felt it yesterday which would be 14 days. Its also not painful to Bunduk as far as I can tell.

Also from there:

Quote:
What to Do If You Find A Lump on Your Cat:
First of all, remember that almost all vaccine reactions disappear over time and do not cause cancer. I have been practicing for over 35 years and have not seen a single case of fibrosarcoma in my patients. If you notice a small lump at the site of vaccination that persists more than a week call the veterinarian who administered the vaccinations and have him or her re-examine the cat. Most veterinarians are more than happy to do this. Generally, their advice will be to wait a few weeks more for the swelling to go away. If it turns out to be an abscess the veterinarian may drain it and place the cat on antibiotics.
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  #65  
Old June 20th, 2008, 09:01 PM
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This backs up a lot of what our amazing Dr. Lee has been saying but I thought I'd post for others that are starting to freak out about vaccines like I am.

Quote:
Things You And Your Veterinarian Can Do:

1) Use only non-adjuvented vaccines in your cats. Adjuvented vaccines give us longer terms of immunity but they also cause considerably more local tissue inflammation than non-adjuvented vaccines. Vaccine manufacturers are quickly shifting to vaccines that do not contain irritating enhancing chemicals. These new vaccines will be less likely to cause tumors.fibrosarcoma cat
.
2) Request that your veterinarian use 25 gauge needles when administering vaccines to your cat. Small hypodermic needles are less likely to carry irritating hair and debris under the skin.

3) Request that your veterinarian massage the area where the vaccine was administered. Massage spreads out the antigen (vaccine) lessening inflammation.

4) A somewhat gruesome suggestion that has been made by some academicians is that the vaccination be administered in a leg. The theory is that if a tumor should develop the leg could be amputated saving the cats life.

5) Avoid over vaccinating your pet. There is scientific evidence that panleukopenia and feline leukemia vaccinations last for at least three years, probably more. Yearly vaccination for these diseases is not necessary annually. Since yearly rabies vaccination is required by State law, be sure a non-adjuvented rabies vaccine is used.

6) Be sure your veterinarian keeps accurate records of the brand of vaccine used and the site where it was given. Although this may not help your pet, it will help us to determine which brands of vaccine may be causing problems. To identify the vaccine used, it is now recommend that the feline panleukopenia-calicivirus-chlamydia-rhinotracheitis vaccination be given on the right shoulder. Rabies vaccination should be given on the right rear leg as far down the leg as possible. Feline leukemia vaccination should be given on the same spot on the left rear leg

7) All cats should receive at least one feline leukemia virus test. This retroviral testing will ensure that the feline leukemia viruses not acting as a helper virus for the production of a feline sarcoma.
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  #66  
Old June 20th, 2008, 09:01 PM
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Onster, I would be doing the same thing with any one of my guys! You are entitled.

L4H, I am assuming that Jasper's lump is completely gone now?
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  #67  
Old June 20th, 2008, 09:09 PM
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Thanks 14+kitties

My cat Ty I had before Onnie and Bunduk never got an upper respiratory/mites/anal gland issues/post vaccine freakouts/diarrhea/ vaccine lumps (tho he got more vaccines than Onnie and Bunduk since he was indoor outdoor)

With my 2 now Ive dealt with all of the above and Ive only had Bunduk for a little over a year and Onnie less than 2. Ty I had for 7....


ETA: lol nevermind I just rememberd Ty had his fair share. How quickly we forget...he had fleas numerous times, tapeworm twice and a urine infection.

I cant believe im threadjacking my own theadjack of L4H's thread.
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  #68  
Old June 21st, 2008, 09:05 AM
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We have an appointment in half an hour. Vet says he doesnt think it would be a vaccine lump as these usually show 24-48 hours after the vaccine.
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  #69  
Old June 21st, 2008, 10:42 AM
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Ok he thought it was too high up for a vaccine lump (this lump is around his lower ribs not in the flank where he gives the needle) so he took an aspiration and then said it wasnt an abscess and there were no tumour cells/ sign of infection.

He said it could still be a vaccine lump as Bunduk was squirming when he got the needle and if it gets bigger well have to address it (ie have surgery to remove it) . He said it could take 2 months to go down if its a vaccine lump.

Also Bunduk and Onnie are one a 3 yr vaccine plan so I dont have to go through this for another 3 yrs, thank God.
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  #70  
Old June 21st, 2008, 10:50 AM
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Well the good thing is there were no tumor cells so that's a huge relief. Now you'll just have to be monitoring it. But you leave soon no?
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  #71  
Old June 21st, 2008, 10:55 AM
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Ya I was freaking out for either of the two probs- an abscess (aka onnie and Bunduk cant be boarded together cuz theyre hurting ea other) or my worst fear, a tumor...

he said the fine aspiration is not a 100% indication that it is not tumerous however he did say it was not a fatty lump. So that leaves it being either a weirdly located vaccine lump (I think cuz he did squirm- vet doesnt remember) or some sort of tumour (may be malignant).

I can monitor until July 8 but after that Ill have to leave it to the good people at catnap cottages in Guelph. My vet said he will keep in touch with them also regarding that. If it doesnt increase in size by the time I leave though he said its likely it wont increase in size and it will just go down eventually.

He didnt charge me for the aspiration either . He did say that he had a cat just come in yesterday that he had given the vaccine a month ago and she developed an abscess When he stuck the needle in to do the aspiration all this puss came out and another cat that has a lump like Bunduk. He said its very rare and he was surprised with these 3 cases in a row but he says he probably wont get anymore for a long time.
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  #72  
Old June 21st, 2008, 11:55 AM
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Well certainly keep us informed. I'm sure it will go away soon.
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  #73  
Old June 21st, 2008, 12:46 PM
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Oh no Onster. I just logged on.

I noticed the lump on Friday, 5 days after his vaccine. It took a week after that to pretty much disappear. So about 2 weeks all together. He lump was quite large almost 2 inches in diameter.

for Bunduk! to you, I know how you feel!
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  #74  
Old June 24th, 2008, 09:08 AM
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thanks love4himmies

I'm glad jasper's is completely gone.

Bunduk's is doing weird things. Its about the size of a large olive and hard like that. After the vet aspirated it for a sample it seemed like it was spread out so it was larger in area covered but smaller in height but then the next day it was bigger again and larger than before (the vet did say there was some water under the skin but that was normal).

Now it is remaining constant as the size of an olive. At least its not getting bigger *please please go away*
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  #75  
Old June 24th, 2008, 09:15 AM
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I don't think Jasper's lump was exactly where the needle went in either, It was more to the side of the neck. Of course as you stated, with the squirming, vets can't be exactly sure where the needle went in.

Keeping Bunduk in my prayers!
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  #76  
Old June 24th, 2008, 05:03 PM
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Thanks L4H, Ill definately update here if the lump changes
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  #77  
Old June 25th, 2008, 12:25 AM
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for Bunduk's lump to go away completely & soon
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  #78  
Old June 26th, 2008, 09:38 AM
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*sigh*

Bunduk's lump is twice the size as of today. Yesterday it was still a hard olive now its twice the size with a hard centre (olive sized) but the rest is not so hard
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  #79  
Old June 26th, 2008, 09:44 AM
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oh no I checked again and its not soft its hard all the way

this lump is so weird it keeps changing.

I can tell its there without even feeling it anymore because the fur is raised above it.
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  #80  
Old June 26th, 2008, 09:48 AM
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Oh no. Have you called the vet? Did he give you some time period as to when it might start going down?
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  #81  
Old June 26th, 2008, 09:50 AM
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no I didnt call the vet, he said we have to see after 2 months at which point it should be gone.

He did say though that if it keeps getting bigger/doesnt go down after 2 months we will have to get it removed.

Its a waiting game.
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  #82  
Old June 26th, 2008, 10:04 AM
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That stinks! Not to worry you, but what if it's something bad? Won't waiting that long make it worse?
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  #83  
Old June 26th, 2008, 10:06 AM
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yes I worried about that. Vet said that theres no point putting him through surgery with his respiratory problems (Bunduk has damage to his airway) when it might just be a vaccine lump isnt very wise. He didnt seem concerned but of course Im very worried.

If it gets any biggger I dont know what Ill do? Just put him through the surgery? I dont know.
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  #84  
Old June 26th, 2008, 10:07 AM
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Call the vet, ask for a biopsy! PM Dr Lee too!
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Jasper, male Ragdoll ?? (approx 10 yrs)
Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

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  #85  
Old June 26th, 2008, 10:08 AM
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I wonder if they can do a local freezing to do a biopsy for him rather than full anesthetic. It is just under the skin, not like it is an organ.
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Cat maid to:

Jasper, male Ragdoll ?? (approx 10 yrs)
Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
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  #86  
Old June 26th, 2008, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
Call the vet, ask for a biopsy! PM Dr Lee too!
Yeah, a biopsy wouldn't hurt. They don't have to put him under for that right? I'd think it's like when they do it to us, use a local. I just hate the thought of waiting that long and have it be something bad that could have been taken care of early on.
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  #87  
Old June 26th, 2008, 09:38 PM
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I'm sorry it got bigger, onster. :sad: I know how worrisome that is!
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  #88  
Old June 26th, 2008, 09:53 PM
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thanks guys.. Im trying not to worry.

I called the vet and he said as long its not much bigger than one inch ( the hard part) theres no need to do anything - standard procedure is to wait for 3 months after.

I found this online:

Quote:
lumps commonly form in the weeks following vaccination due to the immune stimulation and inflammation centered on this area. These lumps are usually normal and do not represent fibrosarcomas, which generally take years to develop, not weeks. If your cat develops one of these lumps under the skin (they are usually noticed by owners 3-4 weeks after vaccination), the lump may be left alone to resolve naturally. If the lump is still present 3 months from the time of vaccination, it should be removed and biopsied. Any lumps greater than 2 cm in diameter (approximately 1 inch) should be removed no matter how long a time has passed since vaccination. Also, any lump should be removed if it is felt to be getting larger rather than smaller one month after its discovery.

Sometimes one such lump will break open. This usually means an infection is present and must be treated rather than that a fibrosarcoma has developed. Your veterinarian should be informed of this occurrence and the pet should return for therapy.
from http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=526

It reiterates what the vet already told me, so I guess it makes me feel better. Also although it did get better it hasnt been a month since the vaccination so were not in that time yet...also I did notice it later so the 3-4 weeks later is comforting.

Last edited by onster; June 26th, 2008 at 09:56 PM.
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  #89  
Old June 27th, 2008, 12:13 AM
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Onster for you & Bunduk

Now I will tell you the same thing I told L4H........Don't touch it, leave it alone, no checking it for one week. Often when you handle a lump often, it will increase in size because it is being "irritated" by being moved & prodded.

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  #90  
Old June 27th, 2008, 06:21 AM
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Aww Bunduk,you are nothing but a furball of trouble,if you are not running away,you're jumping up 2 meters +a whole bunch of other things and now this stupid lump to worry mom more(not your doing though,for once)it will be gone soon,just like Vinnies
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