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Old May 2nd, 2008, 10:40 AM
Patty Durkin Patty Durkin is offline
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Question Need Answers

Our precious little Maggie died last night. She was a 2 year old terrier. She had gotten out of the back yard. She was in the front yard and we didn't think anything of it. We brought her in, played with her and she seemed fine. About an hour later, I noticed her lying on the floor, foam at the mouth and her legs in a saw horse type position. We called the vet who told us to give her 3 cc of hydrogen peroxide to induce vomiting. We never got her to vomit and she started having seizures. They told us there was nothing that could be done at that point. I have been reading on the internet about stychnine poisoning and want to know if at the point of seizures is their truly nothing that can be done but let them die? I am so sick and can't stop trying and I guess I need to know if the vet office was correct.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 11:09 AM
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Oh, God bless you :sad: I have no idea if the vet was correct or not but it must have been so devastating for your family to watch poor Maggie.

I hope you can get some answers but more importantly find out what exactly she came into contact with between the back and front yards so that no other animals need to suffer the same fate.

Maggie run at the bridge
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 11:15 AM
Jim Hall Jim Hall is offline
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can the vet to a post mortem and fiing out what it was especially if you have other animals or children around did you see any thing that lookes suspicious?
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 11:45 AM
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I'm sorry for your loss! I agree with Jim. Perhaps the vet can do a post mortem and find out exactly what she ingested. If she got into some poison she may have had too much for the suggested treatment to work.

Do also have a look in your front and back yard. It does sound like she ate something toxic. Do you have any plants that might be poisonous to animals? Did you use any pesticide lately? I hope you find out what happened. It would be horrible to have another animal have this happen to them.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 12:21 PM
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Sorry to hear about you dog, sounds like the poison acted very quickly.

I agree with Jim, very important you find out what you dog died from, lives could be at stake.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 12:48 PM
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Dr Lee Dr Lee is offline
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I am very sorry for your loss.

Questions on if the vet was correct.

Hydrogen peroxide to induce vomiting. This is a common and safe method to induce vomiting. While it is contraindicated in some toxins, it is appropriate in most.

Whether there was anything they could do at that point. The clinical signs of Opisthotonos (arched body and rigidity) along with the seizures would make the prognosis, regardless of cause, guarded to poor. While it is not possible to say that nothing can be done, the level of care would be of a high level emergency hospital or university and again the prognosis would be guarded to poor. Treatment would focus on seizure management (in some cases full anesthesia is required. I had a poison case where the patient was anesthetized for about 18 hours while on fluid support) and supportive care. Often assisted breathing is needed and sometime irreversible neurologic damage has already been done. Often there is not the facility and many of these do not make it into the hospital in time.

As suggested, an autopsy (or more correctly termed necropsy) can be performed. The best method is to send the pet to a diagnostic lab for complete evaluation. The pet would need to be keep cool but NOT frozen. These tests are usually very costly and there is not a guarantee of an answer.

If there is strychnine poisoning, then it is a risk to other pets in the neighborhood. It is a common rodent poison. It is important to know if there is someone trying to kill rodents in the area or if there is a malicious intent. I saw a lot of strychnine in an area of Las Vegas that I worked in but once I moved out of the area and then later to Arizona, I, thankfully, have not seen them anymore. Once the seizures begin, the pet is not conscious of anything that is occurring, thankfully.

Again, I am sorry for your loss.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 12:55 PM
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I am very sorry for your loss.

It does sound like poisoning, weather natural or deliberate you may never know without getting an autopsy.

25 years ago I had someone mention to me that they had poisoned, with stychnine, some dogs that had been tearing up her trash. She calimed to have put stychnine in raw meat onto her trash can and watched dogs fall over as they walked away. I don't know why she told me but I told the tale to a friend in the Sherrifs department. He told me he would start watching her.

Nothing ever came from the poisoning but with just occasionally watching The sherrifs department ended up getting a search warrent and busted them for dealing drugs and some sort of child abuse since her childern where also distributing drugs from the house. I'm not sure if she is still in jail but she did at least 7 years which is too short of a time in my mind.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 01:31 PM
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No answers for you. Just wanted to say I am so very sorry for your loss. Run free little Maggie.
to you.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 01:38 PM
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Like everyone said it does sound like poisoning :sad: and the only way of knowing what type is to have the necropsy done.

I am very sorry for your loss and my condolences to you and your family.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 02:25 PM
Patty Durkin Patty Durkin is offline
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Thank you

Thank you Dr. Lee. I was beating myself up about should I have taken her to the vet clinic. But everytime we went to move her she started having a seizure. An assistant at the vet clinic came to the house with meds but she died shortly after he arrived. Thanks again for giving me a little piece of mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Lee View Post
I am very sorry for your loss.

Questions on if the vet was correct.

Hydrogen peroxide to induce vomiting. This is a common and safe method to induce vomiting. While it is contraindicated in some toxins, it is appropriate in most.

Whether there was anything they could do at that point. The clinical signs of Opisthotonos (arched body and rigidity) along with the seizures would make the prognosis, regardless of cause, guarded to poor. While it is not possible to say that nothing can be done, the level of care would be of a high level emergency hospital or university and again the prognosis would be guarded to poor. Treatment would focus on seizure management (in some cases full anesthesia is required. I had a poison case where the patient was anesthetized for about 18 hours while on fluid support) and supportive care. Often assisted breathing is needed and sometime irreversible neurologic damage has already been done. Often there is not the facility and many of these do not make it into the hospital in time.

As suggested, an autopsy (or more correctly termed necropsy) can be performed. The best method is to send the pet to a diagnostic lab for complete evaluation. The pet would need to be keep cool but NOT frozen. These tests are usually very costly and there is not a guarantee of an answer.

If there is strychnine poisoning, then it is a risk to other pets in the neighborhood. It is a common rodent poison. It is important to know if there is someone trying to kill rodents in the area or if there is a malicious intent. I saw a lot of strychnine in an area of Las Vegas that I worked in but once I moved out of the area and then later to Arizona, I, thankfully, have not seen them anymore. Once the seizures begin, the pet is not conscious of anything that is occurring, thankfully.

Again, I am sorry for your loss.
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  #11  
Old May 2nd, 2008, 02:26 PM
Patty Durkin Patty Durkin is offline
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Thank you

Thank you Dr. Lee. I was beating myself up about should I have taken her to the vet clinic. But everytime we went to move her she started having a seizure. An assistant at the vet clinic came to the house with meds but she died shortly after he arrived. Thanks again for giving me a little piece of mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Lee View Post
I am very sorry for your loss.

Questions on if the vet was correct.

Hydrogen peroxide to induce vomiting. This is a common and safe method to induce vomiting. While it is contraindicated in some toxins, it is appropriate in most.

Whether there was anything they could do at that point. The clinical signs of Opisthotonos (arched body and rigidity) along with the seizures would make the prognosis, regardless of cause, guarded to poor. While it is not possible to say that nothing can be done, the level of care would be of a high level emergency hospital or university and again the prognosis would be guarded to poor. Treatment would focus on seizure management (in some cases full anesthesia is required. I had a poison case where the patient was anesthetized for about 18 hours while on fluid support) and supportive care. Often assisted breathing is needed and sometime irreversible neurologic damage has already been done. Often there is not the facility and many of these do not make it into the hospital in time.

As suggested, an autopsy (or more correctly termed necropsy) can be performed. The best method is to send the pet to a diagnostic lab for complete evaluation. The pet would need to be keep cool but NOT frozen. These tests are usually very costly and there is not a guarantee of an answer.

If there is strychnine poisoning, then it is a risk to other pets in the neighborhood. It is a common rodent poison. It is important to know if there is someone trying to kill rodents in the area or if there is a malicious intent. I saw a lot of strychnine in an area of Las Vegas that I worked in but once I moved out of the area and then later to Arizona, I, thankfully, have not seen them anymore. Once the seizures begin, the pet is not conscious of anything that is occurring, thankfully.

Again, I am sorry for your loss.
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  #12  
Old May 2nd, 2008, 02:36 PM
Patty Durkin Patty Durkin is offline
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Thanks

Thank you to everyone for all the kind words. The run free little Maggie especially touched my heart. Does anyone know how to stop crying? Maggie was my baby and I think you guys are the only ones that really understand that feeling. I feel so lost, the house is so quiet.
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  #13  
Old May 2nd, 2008, 03:25 PM
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badger badger is offline
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Let your tears flow. Even when the death of a beloved pet is expected, we mourn. And please don't feel guilty, this was a terrible accident that no-one deserves. As Dr. Lee pointed out, once the poison is in their system, not a great deal can be done.
I would want to get to the bottom of it too, if only to protect the other animals out there. You might want to ask around, see if any of your neighbours has been putting down poison for rodents. If you are sure she never left your yard, there a many garden chemicals that are toxic to pets, as well as plants, especially if your dog was a nibbler. I hope you find an explanation.
I'm so sorry.
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 03:53 PM
Hazmat Hazmat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty Durkin View Post
Thank you to everyone for all the kind words. The run free little Maggie especially touched my heart. Does anyone know how to stop crying? Maggie was my baby and I think you guys are the only ones that really understand that feeling. I feel so lost, the house is so quiet.
Hazmat my old cat died last year. I have not stopped crying. There is no way stop cyying. you will never ever stop but you will simply cry less.
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  #15  
Old May 2nd, 2008, 07:50 PM
Grace27 Grace27 is offline
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I am so sorry about your loss and also hope you find the cause of Maggie's death. I can't even imagine the pain of losing your precious loved one so suddenly.
Please let us know if and when you find out what happened to her.

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  #16  
Old May 3rd, 2008, 07:44 AM
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MOOSEDRY MOOSEDRY is offline
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hi patty.

i am so, so sorry for your loss. and poor little maggie, so young! just remember that you gave her the best home you possibly could while she was here. their time with us is always too brief.

please don't let this make you jaded. when you are ready, please consider welcoming another dog into your family. it won't replace maggie, but it will certainly help you through your grief, and will carve its own little place into your heart. there are many, many dogs out there in need of a good home who have been abandoned by heartless owners.

best wishes to you and your family in this very tough time.

tracy
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