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Old April 20th, 2008, 08:50 AM
DougG DougG is offline
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Cat With Struvite Crystals & Urinary Infection... And Maybe Kidney Deficiency?

I'm SO glad I found this forum!

I'm on an emotional roller-coaster right now, and looking for opinions and advice in addition to my discussions with my vet. Sorry for the long first post!

Early last week I brought one of my three Himalayan cats, Silky, to the vet as I noticed she had begun acting a bit quiet. Not in obvious distress, but just a bit mopey and quieter than she usually is. Silky is a seven year old female who is normally a very active & happy little scamp so I noticed her change in behaviour immediately.

The vet did blood tests which revealed slightly elevated creatinine - the result was 204. The vet told me they've seen much higher numbers than that in other peoples' pets. As for urea the number was 18.6. Again, while the number is higher than normal, the vet said that it isn't dramatically high. Even so, the elevations are cause for concern and they've kept her at the clinic.

All other aspects of Silky's blood test revealed very good, normal numbers.

As for the urine test, it revealed a ph of 6, a strong presence of struvite crystals and bacteria, some protein, and some white blood cells. Due to the presence of bacteria, Silky obviously has a urinary infection - so she has been put on a course of antibiotics which will last at least three weeks, and I imagine the vet will re-test her urine and possibly her blood after the antibiotic course has finished. Silky's urine concentration seems a little low at 1.026, but then again I was informed that this isn't a dramatically low number. She is able to urinate freely, there's no obstruction.

The vet gave me a copy of Silky's blood & urine test results, and have gone over everything thoroughly.

Since the creatinine & urea numbers are higher than normal, and since her urine is slightly dilute, the vet is proceeding cautiously and treating Silky as though she has kidney insufficiency / the early stages of kidney failure. Since Silky was checked in at the clinic she's been on her antibiotics, an IV drip, and also eating Prescription k/d or something similar. They've been monitoring her and are satisfied with her response since she was admitted.

So far the vet hasn't been able to evaluate the size / condition of her kidneys through an x-ray. They did take a couple of x-rays but Silky's kidneys are impossible to see clearly as she's holding on to her poop, which is blocking the view (I saw the x-rays for myself, and yup - she's definitely holding back). She's not constipated however, she has had a few smallish bowel movements, but she's just been very reluctant to finally let it all go. I imagine this is because she's in a strange environment and not a happy camper over it. Tomorrow morning the vet will give her a laxative to clear her out, then the second x-ray will be done.

I've visited Silky a few times since she went to the clinic, and she's doing very well - she's not acting droopy at all now, and seems completely normal. Vocal, lots of purrs, good appetite, bright clear eyes. She's obviously not happy over not being at home, but this is normal.

At home Silky's main food has been Eagle Pack kibble, with some Science Diet Nature's Best mixed in, for the sake of variety and interest. But... normally every evening she and the other cats have been given some canned food, normally Fancy Feast, which they love as a treat. Silky also loves Whiskas Temptations snacks, and has eaten anywhere from half a dozen to maybe twenty per day. The vet is certain that Silky's struvite crystals are from the Fancy Feast and the Whiskas treats, even though they didn't form the majority of her diet. Some cats are just prone. And now I can kick myself for ever giving her that stuff to begin with...

In any case, the vet is pretty sure I'll be able to bring Silky home tomorrow (I can't wait!). Of course I'll continue the antibiotics and Silky will be put on a restricted diet - likely k/d, but I'll go with whatever the vet prescribes at check-out time. Just as important, I'll cut out the Fancy Feast and Whiskas treats immediately. No more, no way. Silky's restricted diet will be tricky as my two other healthy Himmies can stay on normal food (but I'll definitely cut out their canned Fancy Feast & snacks too). I know I'll manage, but I wonder if anyone else out there has experience with managing restricted- and unrestricted-diet cats simultaneously.

Without a clear x-ray of her kidneys (so far) the vet is not sure if Silky really has kidney failure, or if the creatinine & urea numbers are off simply because of the struvite & infection. I too am wondering if the struvite & bacterial infection might be making it seem as though she's in the early stages of kidney failure, when she really might not be. Any ideas anyone?

Although I'm glad to see that Silky is acting like her normal perky & sweet self again, of course I'm upset that she has these problems, and I do worry about her long-term health - especially her kidneys of course. But I am determined to do everything right, and give her the best care possible every step of the way.

Again, sorry for the length of my post; I thought it would be better to give as many details as possible.

Thanks so much for reading, and for any tips / info / advice you might be able to share!
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Old April 20th, 2008, 10:03 AM
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I'd wait on the xrays before any speculation about kidney failure. And don't beat yourself up over the food, we are all wandering in the wilderness (well, some of us ) over what is the best food and trying to square it with our budgets.
I am highly suspicious of vet food generally, you only have to read the ingredients to see there is precious little meat, if any, which is what cats thrive on. However, I have heard that the food for urinary problems can be helpful.
I recently rescued a 13-year old male with urinary issues, who was on Royal Canin Urinary O/S. He vomited a few times on it (although it is hard to make a direct connection; his world has been turned upside down lately), so now he eats very small amounts of Eagle Pack dry, but mostly canned, which provides lots of added water, very important for the health of the urinary tract. I know Wellness or Eagle Pack canned would be better but I'm afraid he gets Friskies, which is no better than Fancy Feast, but not the absolute worst.

Check out this thread:
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread....358#post582358

Sugarcatmom and Growler are the experts on this. If it conflicts with anything I've said, definitely go with their advice.

Last edited by badger; April 20th, 2008 at 10:08 AM.
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Old April 20th, 2008, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougG View Post
The vet is certain that Silky's struvite crystals are from the Fancy Feast and the Whiskas treats, even though they didn't form the majority of her diet. Some cats are just prone. And now I can kick myself for ever giving her that stuff to begin with...
I'm not so sure the vet knows what he's talking about regarding the food (which isn't all that surprising, considering they don't get a lot of education in nutrition, especially feline nutrition). It's actually more likely to be the dry food that's the problem with struvite crystals than any canned, even Fancy Feast. Excessive carbohydrate consumption (dry food) and eating a water depleted diet (dry food) are the biggest factors in crystal formation. Despite what your vet says, it would have actually been better for your cat if she was eating nothing but Fancy Feast, and you were absolutely doing her a favour by feeding at least some. So no kicking allowed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougG View Post
Of course I'll continue the antibiotics and Silky will be put on a restricted diet - likely k/d, but I'll go with whatever the vet prescribes at check-out time.
I strongly recommend against the K/D. This diet is severely restricted in protein, using the assumption that protein is hard on the kidneys. Very old-school thinking extrapolated from out-dated studies on dogs and people. But cats need protein, they're all about the protein, kidney issues or not. Feeding them a protein depleted diet can actually cause further damage as they catabolize their own muscle tissue trying to meet their protein demands.

My suggestion (and I realize I'm not a vet, but I probably know more about feline nutrition than a great many vets), is to find some canned grain-free Wellness in Turkey, Chicken, Beef & Chicken, and Kitten and feed it to ALL your cats. No more dry for anybody. These foods are lower in phosphorus than most other commercial brands, and low phosphorus is more important than low protein. And most importantly, it's wet, which is crucial for kidney cats and cats with struvite crystals, and just ordinary healthy cats that naturally have a low thirst drive and need moisture with their food.

As for snacks, if you want to give some lightly boiled or broiled plain chicken breast (you can freeze treat sized pieces and thaw as needed), that makes an excellent quality protein treat for all your cats.

If you'd like to do some more reading on the feline diet, here are some links for you:

http://www.catinfo.org/
http://www.catnutrition.org/index.php
http://catnutrition.wordpress.com/20...food-and-vets/
http://www.felineoutreach.org/Educat...?cat=Nutrition

And here's some good info and links on kidney issues: http://www.felineoutreach.org/Educat...=KidneyDisease
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Old April 20th, 2008, 12:49 PM
DougG DougG is offline
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Thanks much for your replies Badger and Sugarcatmom!

Sugarcatmom, those links are very interesting and definitely thought-provoking. I skimmed through them this morning and after my chores are done later today I'll sit down and read them through in detail.

Re: dry kibble etc. I have some serious thinking to do. I know all three of my cats are very good water drinkers, whether they eat dry or wet they always go straight to the water bowl and have a good drink right after their meal. So I'm not sure of a direct link between dry Eagle Pack kibble & inadequate water intake with these cats, Silky especially. Maybe the canned Fancy Feast was okay, but I have a feeling that the Whiskas Temptation treats may have been the main culprit behind the struvite crystals. They love them, Silky especially, but we know that most treats like these, no matter who makes them, are basically crud no matter how tasty cats find them to be.

You know, I'd often thought about giving them home-made treats. These cats just love it when we have a chicken or turkey dinner (the latter especially) and I always put aside little chunks and allow them to cool, then feed them to the cats (they gang up on me if I don't). This week I'll get some chicken & turkey breast and boil it in water, or salt-free broth if I can find some, then cut it into small cubes and freeze it in small separate batches. I'm sure they'll love it, and I'll feel better giving it to them.

I'll also stock up on the grain-free Wellness canned varieties - my three cats have eaten it before, and they seemed to like it.

Through the breeder from whom I adopted Silky, I know that her bloodline has thus far been free of kidney disease, and there's no PKD anywhere. I find that somewhat comforting. Nonetheless there remains a big question, and a big worry on my mind - whether or not Silky merely has an infection + struvite, or the beginnings or kidney disease, or both. She's ill, and I have to find my way through this and do my best to get her healthy again, and keep her that way for as long as possible.

What a crash course this past week has been for me, and I'm sure it's just the beginning of my education on feline kidney illness. I'm sure you can appreciate that I don't want to, and can't afford to, make any mistakes...
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Old April 20th, 2008, 01:27 PM
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I have a purebred himmy also, who had a history of bladder infections and sometimes with crystals, they seem to be prone is kidney issues. She used to eat Fancy Feast and PC nutrition 1st kibble.

6 months ago with the help of sugarcatmom and growler, I changed Puddles' food to Wellness, grain free, Turkey, Chicken, and Beef and Chicken. She gets some Fromms four star pate style for changes. She gets two tablespoons of water added to her canned feedings three times a day as well as I contol her water intake by using a plastic syringe to give her 14 mls of water every day. She is only allowed very limited kibble (orijen) as a treat.

She is now as active and looking like she did when she was 2. Her fur is no longer greasy and she has a lot more energy. Her shedding has decreased too.

The best way to avoid kidney issues and bladder infections/crystals is water, water, water, and human grade meat protein, period. Low quality protein is not used by the cat's body, and is flushed through the kidneys, high quality protein is used by the body.
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Old April 20th, 2008, 01:35 PM
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Have you ever consider feeding your cats raw ? One of my cats had an urine infection a few months ago , of course the vet said I had to use their food or else the problem would come back. So I made the switch to raw , in my opinion : better and less expensive than the vet's food or any premium food. My cats are doing extremely good with their new diet. If you would like do to some research on it : http://www.rawfedcats.org/
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Old April 20th, 2008, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougG View Post
Re: dry kibble etc. I have some serious thinking to do. I know all three of my cats are very good water drinkers, whether they eat dry or wet they always go straight to the water bowl and have a good drink right after their meal. So I'm not sure of a direct link between dry Eagle Pack kibble & inadequate water intake with these cats, Silky especially.
It's likely that even though your cats do drink lots of extra water, it isn't enough. Here is some info for you about water consumption: http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutrition.htm

Quote:
The cat has evolved to obtain her water requirements almost entirely on the moisture content in her food - inherited from her desert-dwelling ancestors. Cats can live for long periods without drinking water when receiving food containing 67-73% water but become dehydrated when the water content of the food is 63% or less. Canned diets contain enough water that cats consuming them rarely need to drink.

Thus a 4 kg cat consuming a 240 kcal canned diet containing 78% moisture will consume 237 ml or 98% of its daily water need directly from the diet. Thus the cat needs to drink less than 1 oz. of additional water per day whereas a cat consuming a 240 kcal dry diet needs to drink over 7 oz. of water per day. This can be difficult because cats are not naturally big drinkers. Feeding a canned diet containing 78% moisture virtually guarantees homeostatic control of water balance in the cat.

Diet moisture content is related to the observation that cats fed dry food drink more than six times more water than cats fed canned food but that much of this water contributes to fecal moisture so that urine volume is lower and urine specific gravity higher in cats fed dry food. The urine concentration of all solutes, including potentially calculogenic crystalloids, depends on urine volume.

Cats increase voluntary water intake when fed dry food but not in sufficient amounts to fully compensate for the lower moisture content of the food. In a recent study, cats consuming a diet containing 10% moisture with free access to drinking water had an average daily urine volume of 63 milliliters (ml). This volume increased to 112 ml/day when fed a canned diet with a moisture content of 75%. Urine specific gravity was also higher in cats that were fed the low-moisture food. Decreased urine volume may be an important risk factor for the development of urolithiasis in cats. Diets that cause a decrease in total fluid turnover can result in decreased urine volume and increased urine concentration, both of which may contribute to urinary tract disease in cats. Several studies have shown that dry cat foods contribute to decreased fluid intake and urine volume.
And I agree with Frenchy that a raw diet is the ultimate, but before you get too overwhelmed with all this, a switch to quality canned would be great. Plus, not all cats go for raw right away, so canned is a good transition.
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Old April 20th, 2008, 03:23 PM
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Hmm...

What I think I am going to do is have a frank discussion with the vet tomorrow when I pick Silky up, and mention that there is alternative line of thought regarding the best kind of food for cats prone to crystals and / or kidney deficiency. Who knows, they may already be aware of it.

I feel that while Silky is on her antibiotics for the urinary infection, I have a window of opportunity to try her on Wellness grain-free wet food only. I know it's high quality food, I trust the brand, and my three Himalayan cats have had it before - but as a treat, not their mainstay. I will also look for other high quality protein / grain-free foods - I've been curious about Fromm's for a while but I'm not sure if it's available in my area. If not I'll hunt it down - someone in Montreal or nearby must stock it.

There will be no kibble of any kind. As for treats, all store-bought options are out of the question. I'll prepare little turkey, chicken, and perhaps salmon cubes and freeze them in small batches for daily use. Question: How about other fish, such as haddock or sole?

I'll watch how Silky does on the new regime while she is on her antibiotics - if I see she is happy, active, and well while still under medication, and not losing weight, I'll keep her on the new diet. As soon as the antibiotics course has finished, I will have her blood and urine tested again. When I know the results, if they seem to indicate that this new diet is the right thing for her and her condition, I'll continue.

If she doesn't do well on the new food, if I see anything in her demeanour & physique that I don't like over the next two weeks, or if her re-test results are not good, I will consider other food options, like the Prescription k/d or c/d that the vet is likely to recommend.

Please let me know what you think of my plan. I'd like to think it's cautious and responsible...
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Old April 20th, 2008, 04:05 PM
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Doug,I just a few weeks ago changed my cats diet to Wellness no grain and I give them boiled chicken for treats,they get a couple of Temptation treats in the middle of the daty still,but no more Fancy Feast.
Luckily I have a new vet,who will not push for Medical(he does not even sell it)or any other prescription dry food,which is a great change from my old vets.
My cats don't have any kidney problems,but they are 3 neutered males and I'd like to prevent kidney-problems at all costs.
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Old April 20th, 2008, 05:52 PM
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Please let me know what you think of my plan. I'd like to think it's cautious and responsible...
Sounds like a good plan to me. I'd be interested to hear what your vet says about your menu planning (don't be surprised if he/she isn't completely on board, though). As for some other canned options besides Wellness, you might want to also try Merrick Cowboy Cookout or Turducken, Innova EVO 95% Beef or Venison, Precise Chicken or Turkey or Triple Delight, or Felidae Cat & Kitten. All are lower phosphorus and low carbohydrate. I don't have the stats on the Fromm food so I have no clue what the phosphorus content of that one is. But it's definitely good to have some variety if your cats tolerate it (some are prone to GI issues with frequent food changes), that way they don't get bored of the same food all the time.
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Old April 20th, 2008, 08:41 PM
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I have to admit that I'm going into this with some trepidation, but I know that I'm making the best possible choice for Silky at least in the short term.

I'll be consulting with my vet tomorrow morning (I'm taking the day off work), and unless something changes, I'll be bringing Silky home in the afternoon.

I'm so looking forward to having her back where she belongs; the past few days have been so hard without her here. I know she's going to be pleased to be in her own familiar space again. I can only imagine what it's been like for her, cooped up in a stainless steel cage for four days, with strangers around, and only seeing me for a little while each day. The look on her face each time I visited the clinic and she recognised me through the cage bars is something that will always stick with me. Brings tears to my eyes thinking about it.

Thanks for the information and advice everyone, it's very much appreciated. I'll post updates on Silky's progress in the coming weeks...
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Old April 20th, 2008, 09:16 PM
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Himalayans are prone to stones, FLUTD, pkd and kidney disease so even though the breeder has no history it is still possible.

Nothing that I have found clearly states that a cat with Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (FLUTD) {crystals & infection} will have higher than normal BUN & Creatinine values without kidney disease. Again I suppose it is possible but nowhere have I found it stated clearly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougG View Post
I know all three of my cats are very good water drinkers, whether they eat dry or wet they always go straight to the water bowl and have a good drink right after their meal.
It's great that they are drinking water after eating, the thing is they need water in their meal, not only after. Canned only is a great way to accomplish this, the canned obviously has more water compared to the dry, but you can also add an extra tsp or 2 to the canned to give them an added boost.

Quote:
There will be no kibble of any kind. As for treats, all store-bought options are out of the question. I'll prepare little turkey, chicken, and perhaps salmon cubes and freeze them in small batches for daily use. Question: How about other fish, such as haddock or sole?
As for the fish - it is better to try to limit the amount of fish any cat w/potential kidney issues is getting. Feeding once a week or once every two weeks is a safe bet. The problem w/fish is often times cats will refuse to eat anything except fish. Kidney failure cats have the tendency to not want to eat or eat very little and fish especially Tuna is not a fully balanced meal for exclusive feeding it may lead to thiamine (Vit B1) deficiancy or Vit E deficiency.

Quote:
from http://www.felinecrf.org/which_foods.htm#tuna
If you feed a cat any fish diet exclusively, the cat can develop a condition called steatitis (yellow fat disease), which is caused by a Vitamin E deficiency resulting from the imbalanced diet
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 07:36 AM
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A little update...

We finally brought Silky home last evening. She's very happy to be back, and all I can say is WOW what a difference in her. She acting so much better than when she went in last Thursday morning. Very bright, alert, clear-eyed, sweetly vocal as usual, and happy-scampy. She has a great appetite too, and has been eating with gusto (which is a polite way of saying "like a little piggy" I think).

I did switch all three cats to Wellness grain-free canned food, and I add a bit of water to it before putting the bowls down for the cats. Smooth sailing so far, they all love it and are eating well. I'm going to check out a number of pet stores near work today to see if anyone carries Fromm's canned food - one store near home carries Fromm's canned food for dogs only. I'd like to give the cats a bit of Fromm's once in a while as a treat, and for the sake of variety.

While checking Silky out of the clinic I explained to my vet that I have explored our food options, and that I had settled on Wellness. My vet had never heard of it before but she agreed that the important thing is top-quality nutrition, especially highly digestible protein.

Just to reassure her that I have made a the best possible choice, one that will be the best for all three of my Himalayan cats, when I pick up a copy of the latest blood & urine test results this evening after work I'll bring a can of Wellness so she can look at the ingredients & content ratings and compare it to Medi-Cal kidney & similar formulas they use at the clinic.

All in all I know we're not out of the woods, Silky will require our keen observation and blood & urine testing for a while, but she definitely hit the ground running as soon as we got her home, she looks terrific and is acting normal, and that's just what I was hoping for.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 01:55 PM
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Hi DougG! Glad to hear Silky's home!

Maybe you can clarify something. In your first post, you said "The vet did blood tests which revealed slightly elevated creatinine - the result was 204..."

Could you have another look at that report and repost that value? (is there a decimal point in there?)

And, was there another test done before she was discharged? If so, could you post the BUN and creatinine numbers?

With all the discussion of various food options, the only reference to phosphrous content has been: "low"

I'm wondering (maybe I missed something?) how you are going to determine how "low" is appropriate/necessary?

Phosphrous is the "kidney killer" and, if you are going to retard the progression of the kidney insufficiency, you will have to very carefully manage the phosphrous.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 06:07 PM
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Hi Rustycat,

There's no decimal point - below is a snippet from her original results.

I didn't mention it this morning because I was still waiting to get a copy of the blood test done a couple of hours before she was discharged; no use talking about it without the results. However I now have a copy (but I'm too lazy to scan it ).

The creatinine level from the second test yesterday is 139, and the urea is 11.7. These fall within the normal range. So far so good, no?

As I mentioned though, we'll have a full blood & urine work-up done again in a couple of weeks...
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Old April 24th, 2008, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by RUSTYcat View Post
Maybe you can clarify something. In your first post, you said "The vet did blood tests which revealed slightly elevated creatinine - the result was 204..."
This has been bugging me, I've been trying to figure out what's with the decimal place thing, wondering if I missed something somewhere, which isn't impossible - this is all pretty darn new to me.

Just thought I'd share something I finally figured out this morning (my apologies if it was already obvious to any of you), the lab that did Silky's results reports creatinine in umol/L, not mg/dL. Ah, now I understand.

I found a website calculator that does a conversion. Silky's original creatinine number converts to 2.31. The results of the test they did before she was discharged from the clinic converts to 1.57 mg/dL.
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Old April 24th, 2008, 11:11 PM
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It's great that they are drinking water after eating, the thing is they need water in their meal, not only after. Canned only is a great way to accomplish this, the canned obviously has more water compared to the dry, but you can also add an extra tsp or 2 to the canned to give them an added boost.
Just wanted to clarify what I meant here......Your cats definately needs to drink water from the bowl but in order to help them & their kidneys more they should also get extra water in their meals, mixed into the canned food. The stomach processes water alone quickly & it is then distributed throughout the body where it is needed. The cat's kidneys have a unique function that other mammals do not - they concentrate the urine by removing excess water so the body can use the water somewhere else, this is why they have a low thirst drive. When a cat has any sort of kidney issues there is the high chance their body will also pull water out of their poop leaving it very dry and them constipated, this can be averted by adding water to the food. The stomach will process this water slower while it is processing the food. This gives the kidneys more water to help flush out toxins and or any crystals.
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Old June 13th, 2008, 08:30 PM
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Hi,

Sorry to bump this thread - I just thought I would post an update on Silky. She had another blood test & urinalysis earlier this week.

After leaving the hospital, Silky quickly bounced back to her normal weight of 5.2 pounds (she's always been a svelte and slinky girl under all that fur). Her struvite crystals have been completely gone for about five weeks now. She is concentrating her urine normally, and her BUN and creatinine levels are within the normal range. Good girl!

Silky still has a lingering infection though, it seems that the Clavamox had limited effect. So tomorrow, she is going on Baytril.

From what I've read, the correct Baytril dose is no more than 5mg per kilogram of body weight per day. This would mean that Silky's dose, at her body weight of 5.2 pounds, would be 11.81mg of Baytril per day. However, the pills, which I was told are the smallest size, are 15mg each. The dose specified on the pill bottle by the vet is one pill daily which would give her an higher dose than I've calculated.

So... what I think I should do is cut a bit off each pill before administering it. The vet said 15mg would be okay but I'd appreciate peoples' opinions on this. Should I trim each pill by about 20%, or give the full 15mg?

In any case, overall Silky is acting very happy and normal, and she is very active (a bit of an athlete sometimes, it's very funny when she's on a tear around the house), and she has an excellent appetite. She looks just great, her coat is shiny and her eyes are big and clear (such a beautiful blue too).

I switched all three cats to canned food exclusively, and they took it in stride. Their main food is Wellness grain-free, which they gobble up. Every couple of days I'll give them one of the Eagle Pack canned varieties for a change. I always add about a teaspoon of filtered water to each bowl of fresh food and mix it well before serving.

I found a local pet store that sells Merrick and Fromm canned food, to my amazement. They enjoy both brands but the Fromm - wow, do they love this food. It's quite the feast for them.

The treats are limited to bits of baked or simmered chicken or turkey breast (both skinless). I slice it, and freeze the cooked strips to dethaw later. Boy, was this a hit - they love it. I can't go near the fridge without three very hopeful cats suddenly gathering around my feet.

Anyway, I'm extremely pleased with the progress Silky has made. A bit disappointed that we have to continue giving her antibiotics, sure, but I've read that these infections can be a bit stubborn sometimes.
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Old June 13th, 2008, 11:35 PM
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Hi DougG! How fantastic to hear that Silky is doing so well. And what a face she has!! Those whiskers! Those eyes! Give her a big 'ol butt rub for me.
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Old June 13th, 2008, 11:59 PM
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Wonderful update, I'm happy that Silky is doing well She's very purrty

I'm glad you have all three exclusively on canned now, sounds like they are glad too Excellent treats for them as well

As far as the Baytril - I have no experience there I did find this: http://www.showcatsonline.com/x/baytril_warning.htm which also states not to go above 5mg/kg/day. There is a phone number in that article for Bayer Veterinary Services (the maker of Baytril). Here is an article mentioning the same dosage from Bayer http://www.baytril.com/13/Safety_and_Toxicology.htm. Reading those I would take a little off the pills
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Old June 14th, 2008, 07:49 AM
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Doug,she is a little beauty for sure,sooo glad she's doing good
Their food-choices are great,I too buy Wellness and have tried Fromm and Evo.
I don't have any experience with Baytril,but you have gotten some great advice from our kitty-gurus
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Old June 14th, 2008, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougG View Post
...Silky still has a lingering infection though, it seems that the Clavamox had limited effect. So tomorrow, she is going on Baytril.

From what I've read, the correct Baytril dose is no more than 5mg per kilogram of body weight per day. This would mean that Silky's dose, at her body weight of 5.2 pounds, would be 11.81mg of Baytril per day. However, the pills, which I was told are the smallest size, are 15mg each. The dose specified on the pill bottle by the vet is one pill daily which would give her an higher dose than I've calculated.

So... what I think I should do is cut a bit off each pill before administering it. The vet said 15mg would be okay but I'd appreciate peoples' opinions on this. Should I trim each pill by about 20%, or give the full 15mg?...

Baytril is an excellent antibiotic, but it's not without risks (which I personally found very surprising)...

The risks are of blindness and kidney damage.

I would not give the complete tablet - by your calculation, it should be reduced by about 3/15 - 20%. You might want to consider using a Pill Pocket, since I'm sure you'll have "crumbs" of tablet to work with. (Why Bayer doesn't supply Baytril in liquid format, given the importance of accurate dosing, is just beyond me.)

You might want to have a read through some comments by Dr. Lee on this topic in this recent thread.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 07:54 AM
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Thanks for your comments everyone! Silky sure is a pretty little girl, and just as sweet as she is beautiful.

I am giving Silky less than a whole Baytril pill per day. I don't have the right technique or enough patience to get the pill into her mouth and make her swallow it, so I've had to resort to "Plan B" - which is crushing a pill, dissolving it in a couple of drops of water, adding a bit of gravy from a Wellness Healthy Indulgence pouch, then getting it into her mouth with a syringe.

When Silky was on Clavamox liquid she didn't resist her twice-daily doses; I guess the banana(ish) flavour was agreeable to her. It's a bit of a struggle with the Baytril - I know it must taste absolutely awful to her and she isn't very co-operative. Fortunately the Baytril dose is only once per day.

I know she's not getting the full 15mg. Though I use a whole pill when crushing & dissolving, I make sure she only gets about 4/5 of the mixture. Right after that I take another syringe filled with filtered water and give her a little squirt in order to make her swallow and (hopefully) wash some of that bad taste out of her mouth.

Anyway... this is going to be a long and arduous three weeks - Silky's prescription is for 21 days. I'll be watching her like a hawk throughout.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 09:36 AM
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I know what it's like to try getting pills into an uncooperative patient!! Have you tried Pill Pockets (made by Greenies) at all? You can get them at PetSmart and maybe some vet clinics. They're a playdoe-like consistency treat that you wrap around the pill which lots of cats really like. Although my guy chews his food too well for them to work for him, it's worth a try if you haven't already.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 09:50 AM
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I should have mentioned - I tried Pill Pockets, and Silky won't even go near them. If only she would...
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Old June 16th, 2008, 10:54 AM
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I would not put my cat on Baytril, especially any cat who has had any kidney issues. I feel Baytril was the beginning of a quick downhill slide for my Snowball.

You cat is just stunning. Clavamox has helped Puddles with her bladder infections.

Recently there was a post about baytril, I will try to find it.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 10:56 AM
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Baytril-can be dangerous

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread....hlight=Baytril

Here is the thread.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 10:58 AM
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Have you tried to give her water through a plastic syringe to help keep her bladder and kidneys flushed. This will help tremendously with her infection.
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Old June 16th, 2008, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
Have you tried to give her water through a plastic syringe to help keep her bladder and kidneys flushed. This will help tremendously with her infection.
Thanks for mentioning it. Yes, as a matter of fact since we got the last test results I've been giving her additional water with a syringe a couple of times per day, and she has no problems with it. I'm increasing the amount while she's on Baytril.

Thanks for the link for the Baytril thread. I too have concerns about this drug however the vet now doesn't think she actually has / had kidney issues. Likely the infection & crystals were giving results that made it look like kidney problems. I know Silky is getting a dose that's in line with her petite size & weight however I'm going to ask the vet if there are any alternatives that I can consider. Too bad the Clavamox didn't work...
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Old June 16th, 2008, 11:46 AM
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http://www.showcatsonline.com/x/baytril_warning.htm

http://www.fda.gov/cvm/baytrilDDL.htm
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