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Old June 11th, 2004, 03:08 PM
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My males dog are fighting too much! HELP!!!

Help please! I have two beautiful shih tzu puppies that were doing fine, they were getting along well and lately they have been fighting fiercely. They have been together for over two months and they never used to fight like this. One is neutered and is 7 months old the other one is 5 months and will be neutered in two weeks, could it be that the young one's hormones are kicking in? he is also becoming a little aggressive and he has always been the sweetest puppy ever, what happened to my dogs? My fiance and I try to not leave them alone for too long, the longest they are alone is a couple of hours a day but we are home most of the time. We take them out on daily walks (if wheather allows it) we play with them all the time. We thought that we trained them well but now this is happening and it's getting hard to handle!! ANY IDEAS HOW TO DEAL WITH THEM
thanx
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Old June 11th, 2004, 03:49 PM
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Is the one in heat?
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Old June 11th, 2004, 04:04 PM
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I believe they are two males,princess..
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Old June 11th, 2004, 04:13 PM
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Opps, I guess it would help if I read. I am so dumb sometimes. I admit it though unlike some people. That is so bad of me to say that. I am sorry! Scratch the whole heat thing. Thank you for pointing that out.
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Old June 11th, 2004, 04:18 PM
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Hmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!
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Old June 11th, 2004, 05:28 PM
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Leaving them alone when they're acting like that is not a good idea. Crate one - or both when you're away.
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Old June 11th, 2004, 05:58 PM
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It sounds like they're trying to establish who's going to be top dog in the pecking order
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Old June 11th, 2004, 06:25 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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I suggest you get the younger puppy neutered as well, and this may (or may not) resolve itself with time. Two males, or two females are often not the best combination.

Who starts the fights? One of them will probably emerge as dominant, and you must reinforce that by feeding, petting etc. the dominant one first.

Could you be accidentally causing conflict, by giving them high value toys or treats together? Letting one on your lap but not the other?

In the meantime, until the neutering, do not leave them alone together.
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Old June 13th, 2004, 07:17 PM
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Yup, two males can be a pain in the butt sometimes. The fellow I'm working with has a huge male dog that is very dominant. My Bob is starting to assert himself as a male too now. That's making it a big pain in the butt on the work sites. We have to keep them separate or else they start growling at each other and start fights. Not really fights, more just a very loud scuffle and lots of teeth baring and lots of heavy wrestling. It sounds pretty nasty though.
My friend basically said that if we just let them go at it someday if they start without breaking it up they will be fine afterwards. One of them has to be the dominant dog and they haven't "worked it out" yet. The problem with that is that during the working it out stage they could hurt each other. I don't want either dog to get hurt in any way, so we've found it's just easier to try and keep them apart or take turns bringing the dogs to the site.

When I first got Bob I took him over to another friends place. He has quite a big dog who is incredibly well behaved and a very good dog. Despite this, he and Bob growled at each other and started a minor scrap. The other pooch put Bob on the ground and held him there for a few seconds. Once he let Bob up, they were all happy with each other and there were never any problems after that. Very weird how these things work.

But yes, like LR said male dogs do get nervous when they are around unfixed dogs. If I'm at the park and someone brings an intact male to the park I just pack up and leave. One guy asked if I had a problem with him one time, and I had to explain that his over 100lb Rottie was constantly getting into trouble with other dogs even if he wasn't the one who started the problems. He didn't seem to understand, but he talks like one of those guys who gets a big dog to make up for some other 'short' comings.
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Old June 13th, 2004, 07:22 PM
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"short" coming!!! LMAO!!!! Nice one Bill! I've often wondered if that was true.
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Old June 13th, 2004, 09:04 PM
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Hee hee hee! You have to check out the fingers!
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Old June 13th, 2004, 11:35 PM
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I, personally, wouldn't own two dogs of the same age and sex. While bitches will fight to the death to decide who is dominant, two males can be equally nasty.

I have a friend with a pair of male rottweilers and her house like a house under seige. Both her and her SO must be aware of each dogs whereabouts at all times. And it is not just a matter of one dog inside and one dog outside, either. One of the boys went through a plate glass window trying to get to the other.

BTW, they are both neutered.
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Old June 14th, 2004, 07:19 PM
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That would be terrifying. At least little shihtzus you could manhandle but 2 big rotties?
Glasslass I'm shocked!! Naw I've heard that one too!! LOL
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Old June 15th, 2004, 06:32 PM
Bill & Bob Bill & Bob is offline
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You are absolutely right LavenderRott. Bob and this other dog are both neutered and they still grumble at each other all the time. I just find it happens more frequently and predictably with intact males.
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Old June 16th, 2004, 12:39 AM
kellsbells kellsbells is offline
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That is so strange I also have 2 male Shih-Tzu's( Father and Son) and they have been fighting alot lately too and they are both neutered. I wonder if eventually they will resign themselves to getting along but it has been 19 months here and things have only gotten worse
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Old June 16th, 2004, 09:29 AM
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I thought that my older puppy (chili) had already established dominance, but that was when he was bigger than pepper, now it is getting to be a pain in the butt.. they used to get along quite well but now we have to separate them when we are not home. Pepper is going to be neutered in a week and I hope that helps, most of the time they do well together, they play and eat together i try to pay attention to both of them but I have noticed that they fight sometimes to be close to me. I let my babies sleep in the bed with me and lately chili is getting closer and pepper is also trying to sleep on top of my legs.. it's very cute but I am starting to get tired. I hope that getting the other puppy fixed is going to help. I love them both and I don't want them to be separated all the time..
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Old June 16th, 2004, 10:39 AM
Bill & Bob Bill & Bob is offline
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Hmm, now that's interesting. Perhaps they are jealous of each other for your attention. You might consider not letting them both sleep in your bed with you for a while. That might help them both understand that they are lower on the alpha pecking order and you are the boss who gets the bed. It might put them both back on the same level again? Just a thought.
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Old June 16th, 2004, 11:48 AM
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18 months is roughly the age of social maturity for dogs. Differs slightly with the breed. From this age on is usually when the fight's start...it will either get worse or they will work out their place in the household. I would recommend behavior training.
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Old June 16th, 2004, 01:09 PM
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Thanx for all of the info. I have actually had two males in the past and I never had a problem before. I guess I will try behavior training if after pepper's neutering the aggression does not calm down. They are the sweetest puppies, I love them sooooooo much.. The oldest used to be bigger than the youngest and now since the oldest doe not eat very much the youngest is bigger and maybe a little stronger. The oldest (chili) loves to pick on pepper and that is how they end up fighting so much.. I really do hope that it will pass after pepper gets neutered.. Wish me luck!!
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Old June 16th, 2004, 01:13 PM
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fighting

I happen to agree with the post about letting them have it out most of the time it is mostly just noise and sounds a lot worse than it is. I had this problem with my 2 previous dogs. One was new to the house so they had to work out their pecking order I would break up any fights for the first 2 weeks and then decided to let them sort it out themselves. Well they went at it in the back yard one day and I stood and watched to make sure it was not getting vicious and they made a lot of noise and within a minute they had it settled. We did not have one fight after that and it got to the point where they became best friends by the way it was 2 males. I have found that if you break it up all the time it tends to make them want to go at each other more than deterring it. I understand that you do not want your kids to get hurt but you are right there and can break it up if it gets too intense. Neutering will probably help a bit.
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Old June 20th, 2004, 01:21 PM
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Smile links, resources for dog behavior problems

I have an article posted on my website that includes some info on dogs who act out.
My instinct on your puppies is that they are both alpha dogs and they are doing
what comes naturally in pack behavior - fighting it out to see who will be the
final alpha in the family. If they start to draw blood, you might need to separate
them for a spell. Be sure not to show any favoritism to one over the other -
here are the links and a link to the dog training tips page:

100 Top Dog Training Tips of All time
http://whiskersnpaws.com/100dogtrainingtips.html

Post Free Dog Lovers ads
http://whiskersnpaws.com/PetCafe/

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Old July 12th, 2004, 12:27 AM
sungirl1213 sungirl1213 is offline
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Male Dogs

I have two large, unneutered pit bulls and luckily have had no problem. We adopted them from a shelter at eight weeks old but one is 3 months older than the other. In order to keep them from being aggressive towards one another they have slept in the same cage from day one, they still do even though they are 2 and 2 1/2 y.o., eat side by side and get the exact same everything (treatment, toys, etc). It's tough with two boys because one always wants to be the "top dog" so to speak so any aggressive behavior must be dealt with right away. A quick scolding or punishment and positive re-enforcement for good behavior seemed to do the trick for mine. In order to stay on top of it make sure you set firm boundaries of what is acceptable and that you stick to your guns, give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile.
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Old July 12th, 2004, 01:35 AM
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Sungirl, do you show your dogs or is there a reason they are not neutered?
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Old July 12th, 2004, 12:22 PM
sammiec sammiec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sungirl1213
I have two large, unneutered pit bulls and luckily have had no problem. We adopted them from a shelter at eight weeks old but one is 3 months older than the other. In order to keep them from being aggressive towards one another they have slept in the same cage from day one, they still do even though they are 2 and 2 1/2 y.o., eat side by side and get the exact same everything (treatment, toys, etc). It's tough with two boys because one always wants to be the "top dog" so to speak so any aggressive behavior must be dealt with right away. A quick scolding or punishment and positive re-enforcement for good behavior seemed to do the trick for mine. In order to stay on top of it make sure you set firm boundaries of what is acceptable and that you stick to your guns, give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile.
Sungirl. I have posted to another thread that you discussed these dogs, but now that I read this.... 3 months is not older, in the eyes of a dog. They will try and establish dominance, weither it's today or a month from now, there is no way around it. Unaltered males are very unpredictable (well, so are altered I guess..) They must be neutured. I would suggest NOT letting them sleep in the same crate, there CANNOT be enought room for these two dogs unless the crate is like 30ft x 30ft. They require their own space. Would you be able to get the door open and pull a dog out in time if a start was to break out? Nope, don't think so...Once these dogs begin to fight, do you have the strength or plan for seperation. Will you be able to get them apart? The answer is no. These dogs can do ALOT of damage in a very short amount of time.

Please keep them safe.
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Old July 12th, 2004, 12:32 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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sammiec, did you read the fight thread on the other board? Particularly "apbtnyc"'s post about how his bitch nearly killed his girlfriend's dog just in the time it took him to race across the room?

He is someone who is incredibly knowledgeable and experienced with this breed, and he is a trainer as well, yet this happened to him in the blink of an eye.

I GUARANTEE that sungirl WILL come home to dead or dying dogs if she refuses to educate herself, and more damage will be done to the breed.

This is going to be VERY ugly.
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Old July 12th, 2004, 12:39 PM
sammiec sammiec is offline
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Yeah Lucky I read that post, VERY scary!! Were they not in the same room as the dogs? By the time that they had pulled to dogs apart the pit bull had SEVERLY injured the other dog. AND THEY WERE RIGHT THERE, AND EXPERIENCED!!! They had planned for the day that it might happen and both were waiting for it, but when it happens, you MUST react in a blink of an eye, and that's still not quick enough!!!
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Old July 21st, 2004, 07:47 PM
HUGH LAWSON HUGH LAWSON is offline
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i have grown up with pit bulls and have seen both sides. i have scene 5 apbt live and die without a fight breaking out. and i have seen 3 apbt's who just couldn't stand each other. it all depends on the dog and how much time you put into them. my opinion
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Old July 22nd, 2004, 02:11 PM
sammiec sammiec is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HUGH LAWSON
i have grown up with pit bulls and have seen both sides. i have scene 5 apbt live and die without a fight breaking out. and i have seen 3 apbt's who just couldn't stand each other. it all depends on the dog and how much time you put into them. my opinion
It's a fact of the breed. They were bred to fight. They can love each other, there's no question about that! It's the fact that they should NEVER be left alone unsupervised. There's too much risk involved, if you're willing to gamble with your dog's life then fine, leave them alone together. But I don't think I would be willing to chance that. Weither it's two pits left together or a pit and another breed, a fight can break out and ONE dog will win. That's the sad truth my friend.
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Old July 22nd, 2004, 07:02 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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Two pit bulls might live happily together for 5, 6 or even 10 years, then one day a car backfires, or a cat jumps up to the window and one dog may kill the other.

I just don't understand why people would take this chance, even after they are informed of the possible (and likely) consequences, but then I'm not a fan of Russian Roulette either.

EVERY person who has had this happen has said, "I never thought they would do that!"
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Old July 22nd, 2004, 07:12 PM
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Ok I already threw in my two cents on the other pit bull thread that sungirl was on, and on about. No need for me to rehash the pit bull arguments here.

Back to the topic at hand- until the pit bulls came up, this thread seemed to be going in the direction of leaving same-sex dogs alone........and that same sex dogs won't get along as well.
I really raised my eyebrows at this. I don't doubt it's validity, or the validity of any of your experiences. But I've gotta say I only get female dogs. ONLY. FEMALE. I always have two girls at home. Yes, there is some snarling and snittiness when I bring a new girl home, and no I don't let them hash it out. I scold for any snapping, each and every time, and then everything eventually is fine. This was also the case when I was fostering.
My girls are great friends now, no snarling or arguments of any kind.

Before I had the spitz and the dane, I had a pitX and the spitz. Same thing. When I brought the spitz home, snarling snapping etc. Stopped them and scolded every time. Then, no problems. Great buds until the death of the pitX.

Sometimes letting them just fight it out can be dangerous. A Finnish Spitz is no match for a large pitX or a great dane. The big dog might think they are just settling an argument, not realizing the damage it is doing to the little one.
Just my opinion, and I admit it is somewhat uneducated because I have never let them just fight it out, assuming the aforementioned damage might incur.
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