Help!!! Orphan baby BANDITS

[Iggette]

I seemed to have found myself some orphaned raccoons. I believe mom was a victim of an all to common site around here (roadkill)
She has left behind her six babies.
What the heck do I give them? So far a few have taken to wet dog food and milk , any suggestions?
They are very tiny about the size of a 2lb margerine container (sorry couldn't think of anything to compare to)

[Lucky Rescue]

You must have some place around you that deals with orphaned or injured wildlife? Where are you exactly?

The OSPCA seems to take wildlife! Here is the site:

OSPCA

[Iggette]

Im in sunderland a little town north east of Uxbridge, I can call the animal control or something tommorrow im sure but until then I didnt want to leave them outside they are so sweet and their cries of distress would surely bring the coyotes around to see what was up so they are in my porch so far ......they were in the barn

[Luba]

Do you wanna drive to Downsview?

416-631-0662
Toronto Wildlife Centre
They'll tell you what to do and where to go near to you if you cant go there
leave them a mesg they'll call u back

great people

Sheppard and Keele Street
TORONTO WILDLIFE CENTRE
Site Address 60 John Drury Dr
Toronto, ON M3K 2B8
map
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...to&zip=M3K+2B8

[WOODY]

Around here we take them to animal rehabilitators.
They take in the parentless critters and birds. They have an amazing success rate.
If the raccons are the size of a 2# stick of butter they will most likely survive on your care and feeding however the will also learn to trust humans and that is deadly for a wild animal.
A rehabber will not bond with or imprint on them and give them a much better chance at a normal life and ability to re released into the wild.

WOODY

[chico2]

Iggy,if you cannot get someone to come right away,maybe they could at least tell you how to care for them in the meantime,look up Wild-Life centres in your phone-book.
Are you absolutely sure mom is gone?
I once took part in saving a baby-squirrel,we fed him Pablum baby formula and peanut-butter with birdsseds until he got older.
I've had baby-coons here together with their mom,but of course they were bigger than yours.
Wish you luck,they are wonderful little creatures,let us know what happens.
Be careful with some of the private wildlife managment people,the ones who come and get coons out of chimmneys,they will more than likely kill them or leave them somewhere,where they will not survive.

[Karin]

Being as how I live in Florida and use to work for Rabies/Animal Control I will not comment on how to raise a baby coon. Never have done that, only euthanized them. One baby coon was responsible for over 76 rabies exposure's when the foundling's family took it to a High School pep rally and was loved on by many, bit many too. The next day the little bugger was taken to the vet, which it bit..and two techs. Tested positive. This one exposure depleted the entire nations supply of the Human Diploid Cell Vaccine. Raccoons are the number one carrier of the virus here....nuff said on that.
For baby Squirrels (I call them guirsell's still) an Opossum's , or pocket possums (babys still love their pouch & that is how I carry them, top scrub pocket.) Try using KMR or Kitten Milk Replacer with added Karo syrup. Feed every two hours around the clock..they have a high metabolism.
Graduate them to KMR, Cheerios and peanut butter. Squirrels love trail mix too. The Opossums I have raised can be reintroduced back to their enviroment early with no rehabilation...squirrels are hard to get the message though, they tend to like the menu at home better then their natural one.

[chico2]

Iggy,I don't think you need to worry about rabies in Ontario,we've not had any for years.Anyway,our HS does not take wild-life,they will pick them up and get them delivered(I hope)to a wild-life center.They suggest wearing gloves when dealing with orphaned wild animals,to keep the human scent off them.
I located Uxbridge on the map,your little town is not even on my map
You are not that far away from Toronto,maybe you can make it a family outing and have a look around at the Wildlife center.Good Luck,with the little cuties!

There is also a wildlife center in Midland,but thats waaay to far away.

[MBRA518]

Originally Posted by Karin

The Opossums I have raised can be reintroduced back to their enviroment early with no rehabilation...squirrels are hard to get the message though, they tend to like the menu at home better then their natural one.

I suppose it all depends where you’re coming from... I'm personally a little leery of Opossums too... they can carry a bacteria that can cause serious problems in horses (which I own).

As for the Rabies... Is that a fact that we haven't had any in Ont for a number of years??? I thought I'd heard of a case last year - just a vague memory though. I know Nova Scotia has not had a case since the 60's.... but New Brunswick has a case recently.

[Iggette]

Thanks for all your suggestions, after a little research, I have found that they like watered down skim milk powder and cat food also apple sauce they are lapping it right up.
I am just waiting to hear from Someone who is a lady that runs a wildlife sanctuary I believe she will rehabilitate them then send them off into the wild when they are ready.
As soon as I hear from her I will make arrangements hopefully to drop them off at her place, in the meantime they are doing well and eating well.
I tried the milk in a baby bottle but they seemed happier to just lap it up from a dish I am going to take pics tonight with a friends digital camera so I will be sure to share these little critters with ya all.
Have a nice day

[chico2]

Good news Iggy,looking forward to the pics,you are doing a wonderful thing

[Karin]

Originally Posted by MBRA518

I suppose it all depends where you’re coming from... I'm personally a little leery of Opossums too... they can carry a bacteria that can cause serious problems in horses (which I own).

As for the Rabies... Is that a fact that we haven't had any in Ont for a number of years??? I thought I'd heard of a case last year - just a vague memory though. I know Nova Scotia has not had a case since the 60's.... but New Brunswick has a case recently.

I can relate to this..EPM if I am correct. Opossums do carry this and we are in horse country here too. I do not know to much about this virus but I think it is limited to the adult. University of Florida is conducting a study on EPM and has asked the public to bring in roadkill, adult Opossums for continueing studies. I have a problem with picking up roadkills...time for one. Otherwise, I wish I could help in the study. Opussoms are everywhere!

I still give the young a chance every time I can. Raccoons are a no no for me.
Different lattitudes are to blame. A problem in the south can be a flip side for the north. We all have to deal with it and do our best to help the less fortunate.
I wish you luck Iggey with the Bandits!


"Also wishing good thoughts for "Smarty Jones" this weekend...trained at Bridlewood Farms...down the road from me....

[Iggette]

Thanks for the well wishes, The lady hasn't returned my email yet so I guess I better look at her site for a phone number and give her a call, she must be busy.

I was down south quite a few years ago and saw alot of possums. like raccoons they are very cute but also look very visious when the are mad, another thing I saw was armadillo's they look like something left over from the dinasaur ages.

Strange thought.......Do you think the gods are telling me something?......There isn't a day that goes by that I don't think of my beloved Bandit, but jeese sending me 6 of them.......lmao

[Iggette]

Originally Posted by Luba

Do you wanna drive to Downsview?

416-631-0662
Toronto Wildlife Centre
They'll tell you what to do and where to go near to you if you cant go there
leave them a mesg they'll call u back

great people

Sheppard and Keele Street
TORONTO WILDLIFE CENTRE
Site Address 60 John Drury Dr
Toronto, ON M3K 2B8
map
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...to&zip=M3K+2B8

I am going to phone them today and find out what their policy is. The woman I mentioned in a previous post (who's name and info I removed) informed me of some very sad situations in rehabilitation centers across Ontario. It seems the MNR has taken away her lisence because she refuses to put down animals apparently you are only allowed so many animal (24 I think she said) any more than that and they need to be euthenized In the spring she said she would get approx up to 60 - 80 orphanes of all kinds she would never refuse any animal and all animals that were released would have to be done so 1 kilometer from the site at which they were found and not only that but when the orphan raccoons come into they're possesion they split up the family's etc.....etc..... more info can be found about our crappy goverment and they're policies at the site I will post here . Just a shame the MNR should leave the rescuing up to those that have experience with these things
look here if you'd like to know more and sign a petition

[MBRA518]

Originally Posted by Karin

I can relate to this..EPM if I am correct. Opossums do carry this and we are in horse country here too. I do not know to much about this virus but I think it is limited to the adult. University of Florida is conducting a study on EPM and has asked the public to bring in roadkill, adult Opossums for continueing studies. I have a problem with picking up roadkills...time for one. Otherwise, I wish I could help in the study. Opussoms are everywhere!

Yup that's it... There is a bacteria in the poop that can cause nerological problems in horses and can lead to permanint muscle damage it not treated right way... fortunately it's not a big problem here (Ontario)- much more of a southern States thing, so I'm not totally up on it, just know the basics. I do however know of a horse that died of it near my mothers (Nova Scotia), but that horse had been brought up from the US and contracted it there - that was a number of years ago when they were just learning of the problem.

[chico2]

Iggette. After reading some of the articles and message boards on the site,I just feel sick What the h..l are we doing to our native wild-life!!
The murdering of thousands of Cormorants in a"bird-sanctuary"just about makes me throw up,but killing all orphaned and sick coons,squirrels,birds,bears,deer is an absolute outrage,I thought we were a compassionate people,boy,was I wrong!!!
Maybe we should just eradicate ALL wild-life and build more monster-houses,the next generation can always go to Zoo's and see what we once had
If there is a creator,he/she must be cringing at all the evil his/her most "intelligent" creature is comitting!
Sorry Iggette for the outburst,you are caught in a sad dilemma here,are you going to give them up to be killed? I do not envy you the choices you have
Maybe the Toronto Wild Life center has different policies,I hope so,but then again I guess they probably would not tell you...

[Iggette]

I have Pm'd you with my intentions
For anyone else reading not to worry Baby bandits will be fine

[Kona Dawg]

What is the rabies situation in Ontario?
Rabid foxes:
The number of cases of rabid foxes has dropped significantly over the past couple of decades. In 2001, rabid foxes accounted for 26 of the 210 cases in Ontario. Ontario, formerly the rabies capital of North America, used to report almost 1000 cases per year. At present, remnants of ‘arctic fox’ rabies are found in three main areas: Southwestern Ontario (Townships of Bruce, Wellington, Perth, Peel, Dufferin, Waterloo), Northeastern Ontario (Cochrane, Timiskaming), and Sudbury. The Ministry of Natural Resources continues to drop baits containing an oral vaccine for foxes each year in remaining outbreak areas.
Rabid raccoons:
Like any mammal, raccoons can pick up various strains of rabies, but it is most susceptible to the raccoon strain. Raccoon strain rabies originated in Florida and has been moving northward for over 50 years. The first case in Ontario occurred in 1999 in Leeds-Grenville County in Eastern Ontario. The Ministry of Natural Resource's (MNR) raccoon rabies control program has held the number of cases to just 118 to the end of April 2003. It is hoped that the raccoon rabies control program conducted by the MNR will eventually eliminate it from Ontario.

[Kona Dawg]

This is a link off of the Ministry of Natural Resources website concerning orphaned wildlife
http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/mnr/csb/new...01fs%5F03.html

[Karin]

Thanks Kona.

"nuf said here. I worked Rabies control before in North Central Florida and I can tell all of the rabies fear in Raccoons. They can be born with the virus and pass it to their young. They do not always die from the virus, just pass it on ..and do not always show symptoms.

Thank you for sharing...

[Kona Dawg]

"Just a shame the MNR should leave the rescuing up to those that have experience with these things"

They have their definate reasons, which you can find on their webite.
but not knowing or having experience with these things? I gaurentee that they(the MNR) has alot more experience with lands and wildlife than any rescue for the wildlife, hence why they are the governing body for it.

Why am I so pasionate about this you may ask, My dad has been with the MNR for 30 years now, 6 of them as an Area Supervisor, he is currently the Program manager for Wildfire.

For the Cormorants, he was the Area Supervisor who was in charge of the Manitoulin Island egg oiling.

[chico2]

I am sorry Kona,your dad is probably a great man,but what the MNR is doing right now with their killing-sprees,is nothing short of criminal and an outrage.

[Kona Dawg]

what they are doing is creating a sustainable environment. Do you actually know how bad 10 000 Cormorants are on fish stocks? They literally obliterate them. As for putting a cap on the amount of orphaned wildlife, its called nature, we screw with it and we get over population, now instead of those ten cute baby racoons that were euthanized, we have 200 dieing from over population, rabies out breaks, and with the over population, they eat the food that other animals need to survive on, now we have other species dieing because we saved some orphaned young that in a "perfect world" would have died.

- end rant (this post is not directed at any one person, I appologize in advance if I offend anyone with it)

You have to look at the big picture, and sometimes put your heart aside to see the truth behind the curtain of compasion.

[chico2]

Kona,sorry but I have to continue the rant.We have to create a sustainable environment
Wild life managment is a dangerous thing,who are we to"manage"nature,this time it's Cormorants eating too much fish,lets kill 3.000.
Raccoons,opossums carry rabies,lets eradicate the problem,kill them all??
Nature has a way of managing itself and adjust,although we have destroyed and polluted much of their habitats.
Who are we(MNR)to decide who has a right to live?Every animal on this earth of ours,has a purpose and a right to live.

[Kona Dawg]

your 100% right, I chose my wording rather hastily last night, instead of creating I should have said maintaining. Your also correct that nature will manage itself and correct itself. Its when man steps in to intervene that problems will invariably arise. This is what actually happened with the cormorants, they were nearly an endangered species some 50 years ago, now they are getting out of hand because of what previous generations did. For the Racoons, in the wild nature would not let them live. Even if the mother was still alive, out of those ten babies, mabey 3 would survive to adulthood. If they are fostered to adolesants, it means that atleast eight if not all ten will add to the breeding population, this is where the problems will begin. This is also the reason behind the caps on the numbers fostered. In Ottawa the reasons for all wildlife brought into the humane society to be euthanized is for this reason, we have a huge number of racoons, rabits, groundhogs, etc. living in the city. We need nature to help control these numbers once again with out the aid of mans hand.

[Kona Dawg]

the MNR is also not killing animals to control rabies, they actually drop rabies vacines from the air for all the critters to eat and become vacinated against rabies so that in the future it will never come to the point of having to do a mass slaughter of wildlife.

[MBRA518]

Originally Posted by chico2

Kona,sorry but I have to continue the rant.We have to create a sustainable environment
Wild life managment is a dangerous thing,who are we to"manage"nature,this time it's Cormorants eating too much fish,lets kill 3.000.
Raccoons,opossums carry rabies,lets eradicate the problem,kill them all??
Nature has a way of managing itself and adjust,although we have destroyed and polluted much of their habitats.
Who are we(MNR)to decide who has a right to live?Every animal on this earth of ours,has a purpose and a right to live.

Also you have to realise that Nature in it's state totday and not "natural". Man has messed with everything, from over hunting to over protecting. Animals are intoduced to places they never were naturally. Check out the Newfoundland moose population - you can't even drive on the highways at night there because the moose was introduced to an area that didn't have enough natural preditors to naturally maintain the numbers so there are too many of them. So the numbers need to be regulated by human intervention (hunting) - we created the problem by introducing the animal, so it is up to us to maintain the numbers. That's an extreame case, but gets the point across. Nature can't regulate itself if Man has already messed with the balance.

When man dips his fingers in to help nature recover from our mistakes (like the birds) we often end up going too far the other way and we need to help fix that too.... in the bird case, if people didn't interven they would fish out their food supplies and many would eventually die a slow death of starvation... I think it's better to have never hatched at all.

We need to find a happy medium in how to maintain environments and animal populations w/o intervention. But just as the pendulum swings we often over do our good intentions a few times (over kill... over protect) before we get it right.

And yes we do this to humans as well... China regulated how many children you have.

JMO

[chico2]

Oh boy,could I talk a mile about China but I won't

[Iggette]

Im not a person that can put together words well, to prove a point , there will always be two sides to a debate, but I think my signature says it well enough. The Haulicaust, China, our wildlife what is next. These theories don't work it has been proven in the past! If man is going to continue to build and move into the wildlife home we had better learn to live with it in unison and if we can't, then we need to treat our wildlife and any living thing with respect. I personally think the Indians had it going just fine before us white folks came along and ruined it all, they lived with nature in its glory , only killed what they needed to survive

[chico2]

You got it right Iggette and St Francis of Assisi is my favourite saint and I am not even catholic