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Old September 16th, 2014, 11:01 PM
BrLane BrLane is offline
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My Poor Dog: Tick Borne disease plus so many other issues

Hello everyone –this is my first post here. I have been reading your forum on and off the past couple weeks and I appreciated how much information and how helpful everyone is here.

Sorry this is long, I’ll try not to make this a big wall of text. I’m struggling to understand what is going on and help my poor Oliver. He seems to have so many things go on with him and it just keeps getting worse. I feel so horrible for him and helpless right now. I’ve been scouring the internet and see lots of similar stories but none with all the same issues combined that poor Oliver is dealing with.

He is a Soft Coated Wheaton terrier cross (about 29 lbs) that we adopted 6 years ago from a local pet rescue who found him in Baja, Mexico. We estimate him to be about 8 years old. We have a 2nd dog, a female Miniature Schnauzer, but Oliver is my little buddy who always sticks by my side.

He has been an overall very healthy dog, but on 8/25 my husband and I noticed he was having some minor sneezing fits at night, also he seemed to be swallowing a lot during the night (sort of like he had post nasal drip). Other than that he seemed fine with no other issues. However on hindsight, a couple weeks prior he did start waking me up about an hour earlier than usual to go out and would run outside and start gulping a lot of water from his bowl.

On 8/27 evening my husband noticed that when Oliver sneezed some bloody mucus flew out of his nose. No dripping, just the mucus. Next morning again he sneezed a few times and produced a bit of bloody mucus. Still other than that he seemed fairly normal. Since my husband and I have both lost labs in the past due to nasal cancer – I was very concerned and worried about the blood. In doing some online research I decided that if it was not cancer, it could be his teeth which were never very good from the start from when we adopted him. So I made an appointment to have him checked out at the vet that evening. On our visit he seemed generally very healthy, normal weight, coat, behavior, etc., but she did notice a slight heart murmur (level 1 on scale of 1-4). His teeth were very bad (level 4 on scale of 1-4). So we decided to have a panel of blood tests runs that evening, have him fast overnight and bring him in next morning to have his teeth cleaned, as well as have a look up his nose to see if anything was going on up there--and possibly do X-rays depending on what they found or did not find.

Later that next morning after I dropped him off the vet called concerned that the initial set of blood tests came back showing low Red Blood cell counts (anemic), low white blood cells/platelet count and he was dehydrated (sorry I didn’t get the numbers). She suspected possible Immune Mediated Disease. Instead of moving forward with the teeth cleaning they put him on IV and ran some more blood tests including tick titter and urine, did some X-rays and kept him overnight to stabilize with the dehydration.

(8/30) His X-rays showed nothing unusual in his nasal area/head, but his urine was very diluted and was very high in protein and bacteria. I authorized them to do a urine culture to determine what type of bacteria to treat and she thought it may have gotten into his kidneys causing the high protein levels (protein losing nephropathy). Unfortunately the lab that was to complete the 2nd panel of blood tests was having issues with their machine and all the results were not available yet.

We brought Oliver home that evening with what, at the time, I thought was a lot of meds: Baytril for the urine/kidney infection (diagnosed with pyelonephritis), Doxycycline for possible tick borne disease, Prednisone and Imuran for the Immune Mediated treatment, and I was to give him a half a dose of Prilosec every day to help with his tummy. All in all he seemed still the same old Oliver with just a bit less energy than normal and we were hopeful these meds were going to help him out…and fingers crossed that possibly some sort of infection in his kidneys was the cause of the Immune Mediated disease. Also while he was at the vet for the 2 days, there had been no indication of any further nose bleeds and his appetite remained good and he seemed happy. Also I want to note that the vet treating Oliver has a personal pet dog that has Immune Mediated disease (she never found a cause) who has recovered and doing well. So she knows a lot about treating this particular issue.

Unfortunately later that night, my husband and I woke up to noises to find him bleeding out of his nose and sneezing out large clots (looked like pieces of liver). The bleeding seemed light but the clots were large some as big as quarters. The clotting/sniffling and bleeding would last maybe 10 minutes, stop for an hour then start up again. After about 5 hours around 6AM the next morning it had stopped. Other than that – he still seemed OK with no other symptoms. Because we never actually saw the blood dripping out of his nose (although I do have some nice stains on my bedroom carpet), it looked like it was possibly coming out of only one side of his nose as that is the only side of his lip that had blood on it. Not good! Again I was very worried he had nasal cancer. Other than the one bleeding incident – he seemed to be doing well and tolerating the medication well--Which was surprising to me as he usually has a pretty delicate tummy.

9/3 we finally got the rest of the blood tests back. Kidney values elevated (azotemia), protein in blood was low at 1.7 (prone to throwing clots) and still lots of protein in urine. His Thyroid also came back low but she thinks it could be related to the other issues. Globulins were high (could be due to infection, IMD, inflammatory issues or cancer). CBC platelets did come back adequate (only good news so far). RBC count still shows anemic. The biggie…he tested positive for tick borne disease: Ehrlichia canus or ewingii and micro plasma. This was good news at least for me because we have a potential cause.

Our vet’s objective was to stabilize his blood and get him off the Prednisone ASAP due to his kidney issues. She said he would need to be on antibiotics at least 6 weeks but he may have permanent kidney damage (renal failure).
I took him back that evening to recheck PCP and kidney values.
This 3rd trip back Oliver was nervous (I can’t blame him). They attempted to get his blood pressure and all 6 tries were on the high side and elevated heart rate. The in house PCP and Kidney value tests did show some improvement in all areas but she suspected possible gastro bleeding. Diagnosis this trip: Azotemia, suspect renal failure; Hypoalbuminema, Hyperglobulinemia, and tick borne disease. I went home with more Baytril, more Doxycline, and added Sucralfate to protect his stomach. Also some cans of Royal Canin Renal LP food. Another set of blood tests was sent out to lab.

This new med, Sucralfate proved a timing challenge as he has to take within 1 hour of eating and 2 hours of other meds and 3x per day. I did manage to work out a schedule and he absolutely loved the canned food. Eating was not an issue at this time.

9/4 Urine culture back and showed the bacteria in his kidneys was E-coli…luckily she had guessed correctly with prescribing the Baytril. His PCV (Red blood cell count) was down a bit at 25 (I believe it was at 27 first test). Protein to creatine levels at 7.2. The originally low albumin level however had corrected. She prescribed to keep him on the kidney diet, adding some Omega 3 / high quality fish oil and added another prescription for Enalapril Maleate for the renal protein loss and high blood pressure. At this point I think we had him on 6 prescription medications in addition to the fish oil and Prilosec.

For the next 7 days he maintained his same level of energy and eating aside from not wanting to jump up on the bed or sofa and sometimes looked a little shaky in the rear while walking up the stairs. The vet indicated that the Prednisone can cause rear extremity weakness and was not uncommon. His eyes were bright and gums kept their color.

9/11 I took him back for a recheck of his PCV’s. I was expecting to see some improvement and so was our vet. He looked like he was doing really well. We were both surprised that his red blood cell count had gone down even more to 24. His urine blood level however had improved and no more evidence of gastro bleeding. She had several options for him but didn’t want to rush into giving him some meds and wanted to do some more tests and think about a treatment plan. His anemia was increasing, but very slowly. I decided to go with her recommendation to keep him overnight and run a few more tests (he needed to fast a couple hours first) and she and another vet were going to do an ultrasound to rule out cancer.

9/12 results of the blood tests in addition to the PCV at 24%: it looks as though the anemia is non-regenerative (could be secondary to the Immune Mediated disease or other reasons such as neoplasia-tumor). She added a second immunosuppressant called Atopica. The ultrasound showed irregularities with his kidneys (no real definition); There is a small mass in his spleen (1cm x 1.5cm in size). It could be benign or malignant (did not want do a biopsy or surgery at this time and just recommended monitoring it). He also has Cholangio-hepatitis, likely caused by the immunosuppressive medications. For this she added Denmarine, Metronidazole and Urso tabs. Now Oliver is on a total of 10 prescription medications. I was to bring him back in 5 days for re-testing.

That evening I brought home a different dog. He had started on the Atopica and Denmarine the night prior while at the vets. He was thinner…I could feel his spine. His energy was lower. That night he threw up after eating and seemed overall miserable.

Aside from the extremely complicated schedule I had to put together to juggle all the meds, some with food, some without, some within an hour of the tummy meds, he decided this Saturday that he wanted absolutely nothing to do with the canned food he initially couldn’t get enough of. I went online found a recipe for kidney friendly food (rice, hamburger, egg white, green beans, carrots). He loved it…for a day and a half. Now he wants nothing to do with that. I’m struggling to get him to eat. I made another diet: chicken, sweet potato, a bit of liver, rice and green beans (not the best kidney diet but I’m happy he’s eating it). He currently still likes this, but his appetite is way down and he’s lost a few more pounds. He only eats a small bit at a time. I feel so bad for him. I am afraid these new meds are making him worse (especially the Atopica) and the prednisone is taking its toll.

I pray his red blood cell count is starting to regenerate. We go back tomorrow morning for his blood tests. If they are still going down she may recommend doing a bone marrow aspiration. I want to do what’s best for him and make him better, but I feel like I’ve made him worse. I am also running out of funds – at $3,200 already and counting.

Anyone here have a pet with so many similar issues?
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Old September 17th, 2014, 10:43 AM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is offline
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I notice that you live in San Diego ,Calf. and there are forest fires close to there this can cause health risks to pets and I was wondering if your dog started getting sicker around this time. I posted a link of the kind of health risks this can cause.


http://www.nextdaypets.com/directory...ation~215.aspx




I was told by two vets that small white dogs can have a lot of health issues
I am not sure how true this is.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 11:30 AM
BrLane BrLane is offline
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Hello - no we are not near any of the fires taking place and no smoke even in our our area bu thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 11:37 AM
BrLane BrLane is offline
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Good news this morning -- his PCV was back up to 27 (which is what he originally was when we brought him in the first time on 8/27). So despite all the horrible side effects of the meds...he's at least made a few red blood cells He did lose almost 2 pounds since last Thursday however.

Plan right now is to get him to eat as much as possible (even if it means food not on the kidney diet) and continue with all the meds. He was almost done with the Baytril and she choose to refill for 2 more weeks (that stuff is EXPENSIVE!). I take him back Saturday for another PCV test.
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Old September 17th, 2014, 03:38 PM
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hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
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The big tick-borne diseases here are Lyme's and anaplasmosis, but we've had some occasional cases of ehrlichiosis, too. The latter two can both cause low platelets leading to bleeding and low WBC. Anaplasmosis can attack the bone marrow, leading to anemia. And I believe they can also cause kidney damage. So they left him on the doxy, yes?

I'd be uncomfortable having a dog with a tick-borne illness on an immunosuppressant. How convinced are they that there's an underlying autoimmune problem? Atopica in and of itself can cause gastric upset and inappetence.

If you are near a veterinary teaching hospital, we've had very good luck with them here. They see so many out-of-the-ordinary cases that they recognize things that general practice vets are stumped by. So that's always an option for you if Oliver doesn't start improving. Usually you need a referral from the attending vet.

Good luck to both you and Oliver I know what a helpless feeling it is to have a sick furbaby and not know what's wrong!
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Old September 17th, 2014, 06:08 PM
BrLane BrLane is offline
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hazenrunpack -
Yes they left him on the doxy and everything else as of now. It took about 5 days to get back the results from the titer (due to the problem with the lab) so I assume she put him on the Imuran right away because he had symptoms of IMD. I have read that the Imuran and Prednisone work best together. With what all he has going on...she's questioning whether the tick disease is the actual cause. Sort of a catch 22 for us really. The Atopica she just added 5 days ago as he was still losing red blood cells and this one is definitely causing him the most distress with the side effects.

This one vet alone in an office with 5 vets currently has 10 cases of Immune Mediated issues. It's crazy!
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Old September 18th, 2014, 11:08 AM
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Interesting. I wonder if they all also tested positive for the tick disease? The doxy won't work well with pred in the mix. The tick disease in itself can cause an autoimmune cascade--our Belle came to us with chronic Lyme's that has resulted in immune-mediated hypothyroidism. When she has a flareup, we treat with doxy, not an immunosuppressor, regardless of the auto-immune-like symptoms. Once the flareup has subsided under the influence of doxy, the other symptoms and the blood work go back to normal. So it's worth talking to a specialist, I think, when you're dealing with so many different symptoms.
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Old September 18th, 2014, 12:36 PM
BrLane BrLane is offline
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I think most of her cases are not tick borne.

Thanks for the info. I will ask her about this on Saturday when we go back for a recheck of his PCV's.
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Old September 18th, 2014, 08:55 PM
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hazelrunpack hazelrunpack is offline
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I hope the bloodwork results show improvement
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Old September 19th, 2014, 02:18 AM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Welcome, I'm sorry that you are facing this.

I am going to echo some of the thoughts of HRP above, but I will be more direct.

Every single symptom that you are seeing can be caused by the tick disease. Ehrlichia can be *fatal*, and you don't want to be giving any immune suppressants when you are treating, unless the platelets gets fatally low, and then only some pred until you are out of the danger zone, and wean off while keeping aggressive doxy. Doxy needs to be dosed aggressively at 10 mg/kg TWICE a day (almost 5 mg/lb twice a day), which is often twice the amount that vets use. The aggressive dose is what many "tick vets" will use and what has been recommended on the tick list for years, and we recommend treatment for at least 8 weeks after immune suppressants have been stopped. Aggressive treatment is often needed in severe cases, and will also reduce later relapses. Aggressive treatment may be more strongly indicated in dogs that have been on immune suppressants.

I suspect that your vet having an IMHA dog is causing her bias and treating for this instead of full on treating the tick disease. The immune suppressants will keep the doxy from working effectively, and that may even be more of a problem if the dose isn't at the aggressive dose.

I would add that California has different versions of Lyme too, and I'm not sure if they show up on the standard tests. it's certainly true that most California vets don't get a lot of TBD cases, except possibly in very localized areas. There are all sorts of TBDs that we don't have tests for, so there may be coinfections.

You might try some D-mannose for the E.coli when the baytril is stopped.

Here my vet tells me we have mostly Anaplasmosis. It is thought that Ehrlichia is more severe and more chronic than Anaplasmosis. Here is Timber's Anap. thread, which was initially treated as IMHA: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=73066 It is worth repeating, that the specialists will say that Anaplasmosis is not chronic, while Ehrlichia is.

There are a bunch of links here, which may be overwhelming,
http://germanshepherdhome.net/forum/..._Tick_Diseases


Of note would be these sites:
http://www.greyhound-data.com/dir/40..._Ehrlichia.pdf
http://web.archive.org/web/201004201...sis%20Page.htm (starting at "ehrlichia, what is it")
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/ehrl...n_in_dogs.html

Be aware that metronidazole is neuro toxic. I hope that your vet has a plan to treat with doxy only and get off of all the other drugs that are interfering with it.

Best of luck with this, it's a nasty, terrible disease.

Last edited by MaxaLisa; September 19th, 2014 at 02:29 AM.
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Old September 19th, 2014, 02:48 AM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Forgot to mention, liver support is important because of both the ehrlichia and the meds. On the tick list, there has been a lot of success with Country Life's Liver Support Factors, but there are LOTS of good products out there.
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Old September 19th, 2014, 10:59 AM
BrLane BrLane is offline
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Thank you MaxaLisa - I have appt tomorrow so will discuss this with her and will check out the links. I have however read many cases online where the immunosuppressants have been used in conjunction with Ehrlichlia when it is causing immune mediated disease...when he was first tested it did show this. The RBC's had what looked like bites taken out of them. But I definitely don't want him being on more meds than necessary and this is all just so confusing and treatment for this nasty disease just seems like a crap shoot sometimes.
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Old September 19th, 2014, 11:49 AM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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More often than not I. Would say that the destruction of the RBC is caused by the ehrlichia infection and not immune mediated, and piling on the immune suppressants when the infection is not adequatley addressed can have dire consequences
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Old September 19th, 2014, 01:59 PM
BrLane BrLane is offline
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OK just spent a couple hours reading your links MaxLisa. Thanks so much for the info. I definitely want to talk about getting Oliver off some of these meds ASAP. I really do feel that the Prednisone is destroying him and I'm sure the Imuran isn't helping and possibly the Atopica too. It looks like we'll have to go slow with the Prednisone.

Oliver seems to be stable since his last visit...no real change for better or worse aside from rear end weakness going up stairs which is from the Pred. Getting him to eat now has been a challenge. He seems to like something for a day or so then doesn't want anything to do with it. Sometimes I think he's learned to hold out for something better...I offered him some nitrate free sliced turkey lunch meat this morning and he darn near bit my hand off as soon as he got a whiff of it


I'll report back after our vet visit tomorrow morning.
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Old September 19th, 2014, 03:43 PM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is offline
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I had my dog on Prednisone and he was going insane on it. He was eating non stop . It was horrible , I brought my dog to vet last week b/c he was itching so much and the vet wanted me give him Prednisone again and I said 'NO way!
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Old September 20th, 2014, 02:04 PM
BrLane BrLane is offline
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PVC test came back this morning holding steady at 27 so no major improvement in the 4 days but not getting worse. Temp body temp remains good. Last night he started to get a very slight runny nose and sniffeling...we are hoping he hasn't caught something with his suppressed immune system and are keeping an eye on it.

Spoke to my vet today about my concerns with the Imuran/Atopica and Prednisone and tick borne treatment. She is actually very familiar with Ehrlichia -- she transferred here from Arizona where she said it was rampant between that at Valley Fever. She said most of the dogs she treated bounced right back with the Prednisone and Doxy; however Oliver she had put on the immuniosuppresants because he showed signs of IMD, but agreed she wanted to get him off the Imuran and Prednisone ASAP but wanted to see his PCV count go up a bit more first. She also said she would look into my concerns about the Imuran and Doxy counteracting each other and let me know what she finds. We go back in one week for another check. The rest of his blood work (WBC's/platelets) are normal right now so she is not concerned about bone marrow suppression being the cause.

In the meantime I am going with my gut and have skipped his Imuran dose today and will switch to every other day for the week and see what happens. I may cut back a tiny bit on the Prednisone as well. He's taking 1-1/4 10mg pills per day. I'm thinking of cutting back the 1/4 pill (so 1/5th) -- you think that would be too much? He's been on it for almost 4 weeks.
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Old September 20th, 2014, 03:12 PM
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SuperWanda SuperWanda is offline
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Hi BrLane,

So sorry you are going through this. Your situation reminds me of our dog Timber although we did not have a diagnosis of tick disease until much later. Our dog had anaplasmosis but was misdiagnosed as having ITP (immune mediated thrombocytopenia). MaxaLisa gave you a iink to the thread about Timber.

I agree with what MaxaLisa is saying, not only because she helped save our Timber but my experience was getting her off the steroids and Imuran was when I really started seeing positive results. I was told that I could reduce the steroids by 25% every 7 days. I certainly think in our case that less was more and I found the side-effects of the other meds complicated everything. Sometimes these meds are worse than the disease itself and in our case, she really started improving when she was only on the doxy.

I seem to remember that our vet thought in the end the steroids actually contributing to her anemia so I think it really helped us to get her off and treat the infection without all the immune suppressants.
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Old September 20th, 2014, 03:18 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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It might have already been said, but how much does your dog weigh (never mind, found it, about 29 lbs), and what dosage of doxy are you using?

It's always a dance between the immune suppressants and the doxy when you are nearing fatally low readings. The platelets reading "adequate" tells me that they are probably clumped and couldn't be read well. Adequate says that there is enough of them, but doesn't say that they aren't affected by the disease process. While blood handling can cause clumping, so can ehrlichia. Rarely have I seen an elevated WBC in ehrlichia, unless maybe it's caught in that initial phase. Be sure to get copies of all the labwork and testing for your files at home. Also keep an eye on the monocytes.

Doxy at the usual dosages only inhibits growth of the organisms, and relies on the immune system to do the rest. When you suppress the immune system, then it can't finish the job that the doxy started. Doxy at higher dosages kills, which is one reason why the aggressive dosing is needed for many dogs.

I wish I could help you about the weaning and the med dosages, but I haven't worked enough with them to be comfortable doing that, but I would be comfortable doing what you say with my own dog. At this point, you probably do have to go slow so you don't throw the body into a rebound state and get worse. It may be that the pred is worse than the imuran here? There are three ways to use pred - physiologically (small doses to replace lost hormones), anti-inflammatory (med dosages), and immune suppressant (large dosages to shut down immune system response). Off the top of my head, I just don't know the ranges for those either.
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Old September 20th, 2014, 03:27 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrLane View Post
.... He seems to like something for a day or so then doesn't want anything to do with it. Sometimes I think he's learned to hold out for something better...I offered him some nitrate free sliced turkey lunch meat this morning and he darn near bit my hand off as soon as he got a whiff of it ...
I have an IBD dog and am VERY familiar with this behaviour. Their stomach feels crappy and they just don't want to eat, even though they want to eat. New things or extra yummy things might make them try and risk the stomach upset and eat. Typically there is an acidic state in the body, and the doxy will add to that. Here I use the herb marshmallow and after meals baking soda to control that instead of the sucralfate and pepcid, but they are trying to treat the same thing.
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Old September 20th, 2014, 03:29 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperWanda View Post
Hi BrLane,

So sorry you are going through this. Your situation reminds me of our dog Timber although we did not have a diagnosis of tick disease until much later. Our dog had anaplasmosis but was misdiagnosed as having ITP (immune mediated thrombocytopenia). MaxaLisa gave you a iink to the thread about Timber.

I agree with what MaxaLisa is saying, not only because she helped save our Timber but my experience was getting her off the steroids and Imuran was when I really started seeing positive results. I was told that I could reduce the steroids by 25% every 7 days. I certainly think in our case that less was more and I found the side-effects of the other meds complicated everything. Sometimes these meds are worse than the disease itself and in our case, she really started improving when she was only on the doxy.

I seem to remember that our vet thought in the end the steroids actually contributing to her anemia so I think it really helped us to get her off and treat the infection without all the immune suppressants.
Hi SW, I was hoping you would see this thread. That's really good to know about the steroid reduction schedule.

Thnking of you guys
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Old September 20th, 2014, 07:49 PM
BrLane BrLane is offline
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Thanks MaxLisa and SuperWanda.

Currently Oliver is getting 1.4 ml of 100 mg/ml 2x per day for the Doxy . So that's about 140 mg so it sounds like his dosage is about right (if I'm calculating correctly??). He's currently down to a bit over 26 pounds since last week.

SuperWanda - I did read the thread about Timber. It does sound very similar and I'm hoping to have similar results and has inspired me to reduce some of these meds

MaxLisa - for the baking soda- do you just mix a bit with water and give it that way? I may try it.
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Old September 20th, 2014, 08:41 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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Originally Posted by BrLane View Post
Currently Oliver is getting 1.4 ml of 100 mg/ml 2x per day for the Doxy . So that's about 140 mg so it sounds like his dosage is about right (if I'm calculating correctly??). He's currently down to a bit over 26 pounds since last week.

...MaxLisa - for the baking soda- do you just mix a bit with water and give it that way? I may try it.
Yes, that does sound like a good dose - good!

There are some reports that liquid doxy, perhaps dependant on how it's compounded, only holds it potency for a short time. This is about doxy made from tablets, which may be different than how it's made in general, but I haven't heard a good response to this yet: http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com...ed-doxycycline

Yes, that's what I do with the baking soda. I use an oral syringe and mix some baking soda with water and give it after feeding. (They don't seem to want to take it willingly!) With both my GSD and my little dog, I have used 1/4 teaspoon of the baking soda, but you may fiddle with the dosage. Her internal medicine vet said that it was fine to do this. It really helped with stomach bloating, acidity, stomach pain, and with the panting my GSD used to do after meals. For him, it stopped the panting completely. If you try it, let me know how it goes! I know of two other people that have tried it and they say that it helped, but every dog is different. It does have some sodium in it, so probably would have to be careful if there are sodium restrictions. I've never had to deal with that issue.
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Old September 20th, 2014, 09:28 PM
BrLane BrLane is offline
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Ok that article is probably why my vet gave me a new refill of the liquid doxy the other day. They had been waiting to get in a new supply of the dosage she wanted and they had to make the last batch with pills. They got the "real" stuff in finally and she wanted me to refill and I was not even done with the original bottle -- so good to know!

I should probably check to see if the backing soda is a problem for dogs with renal issues and if it's OK I'll definitely give it a try.
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Old September 20th, 2014, 09:29 PM
BrLane BrLane is offline
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It also seems he may be a a fairly low dose of Prednisone (12.5 mg 2x per day) but I still don't like it!
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Old September 20th, 2014, 10:33 PM
Barkingdog Barkingdog is offline
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I know how you feel , I hated giving my dog Prednisone . I am having Marty get an oatmeal bath to try and help with his itchy skin.
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Old September 21st, 2014, 07:11 PM
BrLane BrLane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barkingdog View Post
I know how you feel , I hated giving my dog Prednisone . I am having Marty get an oatmeal bath to try and help with his itchy skin.
Oliver needs a bath so bad but right now I don't want to stress him. Grooming has never been his favorite thing
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Old September 21st, 2014, 07:20 PM
BrLane BrLane is offline
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Oliver had a bad night last night with the runny nose...it's clearly a post nasal drip and he's miserable. Cannot sleep well or lay down much without getting stuffy and wheezy and gulping. And I can't get him to eat much at all now either. Research last night seemed to point to acid reflux.

Vet's office called this AM to check on him and finally got a call back a couple hours ago from the vet on call. She agreed with me that his symptoms pretty much fit acid reflux caused by the meds (hopefully that is all that it is). We decided to put him back on the Sucralose/Carafate. He had finished up his last dose. Thursday evening and the vet was not planning on having him stay on it. Original reason he was taking it was that she suspected early on he might be bleeding in his stomach. It was certainly nice to not have to juggle that one med (within one hour of eating and 2 hours of other meds which made scheduling a little tough). But it may not be a coincidence that his nasal drip/reflux issue started the next evening after he stopped taking it.

Waiting for them to call and tell me it's ready so I can get some in the poor little guy. I feel so bad for him and want to stop his suffering

MaxLisa I have not tried the baking soda yet...saw some things that it could be bad with kidneys so afraid to make things worse. How much and what form of Herb Marshmallow have you used?
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Old September 21st, 2014, 11:12 PM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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The carafate will help protect the stomach - doxy will increase acidity. I am just using the Nature's Way marshmallow: http://www.vitacost.com/Natures-Way-Marshmallow-Root Jazz is probably getting about 1/3 of a capsule twice a day. I just chose that dosage because the pills are too big for my 18 pound dog and I have to repack them in smaller capsules and that's how it works out. The carafate/sucralfate, IIRC, has aluminum in it, so if marshmallow or slippery elm works for a dog here, I prefer that, but those stomach protectants can be a life saver. Jazz appears to be allergic to the slippery elm, which is what is most commonly used.

Baking soda isn't bad for the kidneys - it's used for the same reason why kidney failure dogs are put on pepcid. I don't have time to look up the studies, but I think this article refers to some of them: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...-dialysis.html But definitely have to check those things when you're managing several different issues at the same time. With luck, those kidneys are just having an acute episode from the infection, though they don't always recover, or may only partially recover.

Last edited by MaxaLisa; September 22nd, 2014 at 03:26 AM.
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Old September 22nd, 2014, 01:04 PM
BrLane BrLane is offline
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Thanks for the link. I may order some. He seems to have improved a bit over night with just the first dose of Carafate...not as much swallowing but still some stuffiness in nose.

I used to take baking soda when I had a bout of IC to help my bladder. It does work. I may try it at least once to see if it has any affect on him. He also ate better last night...he was probably just starving from the day as I couldn't get him to eat much prior to that. I just wish I could get him to be excited about eating something other than meat (mostly chicken). Too much protein isn't good for his kidneys.
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  #30  
Old September 23rd, 2014, 12:23 AM
MaxaLisa MaxaLisa is offline
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I'm glad he is better.

Really interesting about the baking soda and the IC. Jazz here also has a history of urinary issues, and that would be great if this were making her more comfortable.

I was having a lot of trouble getting her to eat. Homemade bone broth is a hit, as is raw goat milk. Recently though I've been getting her to eat my mincing berries in with her meal. Strawberries seem to be her favorite. She likes blackberries too, and I just bought some blueberries to try. She only likes nectarines if they are organic????
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