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Old April 25th, 2007, 02:26 PM
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Colubridz Colubridz is offline
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One and a half week mark- Update and question

Ok so as you all know Duke has officially been on a raw diet for just over a week now. So far everything has gone well, no runny stools,no itching and he LOVES his new diet. I started him off on Natural Paws complete chicken pre made raw patties to start as It made me feel easier about getting into the process. Four days into the diet after his stools seemed fine ( firmer then normal I must say) I began adding 1/2 a boneless chicken breast with the two patties per meal. I've gradually begun increasing this amount to the point I am now at 1 chicken boneless breast with 1 and a half chicken patties and am ready to add in my first raw meaty bone source and further decrease the amount of patties he eats until finally he is eating the proper ratio of meat to offal to bones without the patties at all.

I'm wondering which would be the best first RMB to try adding. Chicken legs and backs seem to be a popular choice as well as wings though I've heard of many sharp small bones in the wings so at the moment I'm leaning towards the latter and was hoping for a recomendation.

Over the next few weeks-months depeding on how long it takes him to adjust I want to slowly reduce the amount of patties he eats by adding in my own RMB's and offal sources as well as mashed up greens twice a week until finally I am making my own raw by myself without the patties. They ran out of chicken patties this week so I ended up buying the turkey instead. These patties were pretty much identical to the chicken except the chicken offal is changed to turkey offal (chicken is still the first ingredint). He ate it no problem and his stools are still small and firm however I've noticed the last two days a bit of it has been more yellowish then normal.

Should this be a cause for concern or is it just due to the new meat source being introduced? On the first night of eating it he actually did dry hack and cough up a small amount of spit/clear liquid though that was the only time I've ever seen him do it and it hasn't happened since. My first though was possibly he's allergic to turkey but hes had stuffed turkey hoofes and marrow bones in the past with no issues so I am unsure.

Thanks
Kayla
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Old April 25th, 2007, 09:08 PM
x.l.r.8 x.l.r.8 is offline
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Lets start with the bones, do you think he'll try and gulp it or chew it well , if he's going to try and gulp the bone then go big like a pork neck or a whole chicken frame, something he'll have to work at, if you think he'll chew then try a turkey neck/back as one rather than a small neck and stand right over him as he eats it. I went chicken backs to while legs and then to 1/4's but I know Riley will chew and get the most out of the meal. At some point you will have to make that decission, if your trying to stick to one protein then probably 1/4 of a chicken instead of the 2 patties. and see how he does. He will need some time to sork out the best method of attack. I would also try missing a meal before giving it or he might reject it for something easier if he knows it's coming. Maybe even a small whole chicken leg with skin removed would be a good way to go. I would always go big and take it away once he's had enough rather than go small and hope he does well, if you give 1/2 chicken you can always take it away and give him the rest the next day .
As for the poops, you will get a whole spectrum of colour eventually.
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Old April 25th, 2007, 09:14 PM
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xlr8 said it all (welcome to the world of rainbow poop )
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Old April 26th, 2007, 08:20 AM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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I agree with everything xlr8 said with the exception of "standing right over him" while he eats his rmb. Some dogs don't like being towered over while they eat and are fearful of you taking their yummy rmb away which might prompt them to 'gulp' down their food quickly as opposed to chewing it thoroughly.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't be close by in case there's a problem, but I always like to stand a couple of feet away and pretend to be tidying up the kitchen while I watch him out of the corner of my eye. This way he's at ease and lies down on the floor with his meal and takes his time.

Just a thought anyway...
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Old April 26th, 2007, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barkley21 View Post
I agree with everything xlr8 said with the exception of "standing right over him" while he eats his rmb. Some dogs don't like being towered over while they eat and are fearful of you taking their yummy rmb away which might prompt them to 'gulp' down their food quickly as opposed to chewing it thoroughly.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't be close by in case there's a problem, but I always like to stand a couple of feet away and pretend to be tidying up the kitchen while I watch him out of the corner of my eye. This way he's at ease and lies down on the floor with his meal and takes his time.

Just a thought anyway...

Agreed. Sometimes feeding them in their crate makes them feel better. Keep an eye but from a distance.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

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Old April 26th, 2007, 10:58 AM
x.l.r.8 x.l.r.8 is offline
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I actually meant, don't leave the room and let him get on with it, but these guys covered it better
I used to stand 'by' Riley because he was food possesive when we started raw. So I had to take a big breath and take his food away 3 - 4 times during a meal, I also gave him a stop comand and took the food away, now he has no issues I'm thankfull to say, it only took a couple of meal times to get it into his head that it's my food, and I'm letting him eat it
That would be another reason to make sure you are close by.
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Old April 26th, 2007, 07:00 PM
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Colubridz Colubridz is offline
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Ok thanks for the imput, Duke actually tends to be a very slow meticulous eater so I'm not to worried about him gulping down the food but regardless I'll be on hand to keep an eye. I'm wondering how you can help prevent blockage in dogs who eat bones ( though I do understand this is very rare) how you can tell if one may be beginng to occur and what you would do if you believed one was occuring.

In addition I was curious if exo skeletons would provide the same nutrional value as bones? Most parrot people including myself feed cuttlebone which is essentially the dried out skeleton of a cuttlefish. They are about 6 inchs long and 2 inchs thick and crumble away like rock and provide good sources of calcium and I'm assuming phosphorous for birds. To be honest I'd prefer to avoid feeding any kinds of bones he's actually going to eat and either grind his bones and give rec bones to keep his teeth strong or just give cuttlebones if there ok for dogs along with rec bones. He has eaten a small piece of one before when I was cutting it into cubes for my senegal parrot without any ill effects.

Thanks
Kayla
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Old April 26th, 2007, 09:48 PM
x.l.r.8 x.l.r.8 is offline
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Maybe look for a box of ground chicken necks/backs for your bone, usually it seems to be about $15 30-40 lb box and another $10 to have it ground. Then something like a pork neck to chew on and add some organ meat if he devours to much of the bone. Pork necks are big enough for a good chew while being soft enough not to break any teeth. Not sure on the dehydrated status of bones, I would have thought that would be a no-no, anything other than raw bone has the potential for malabsorbtion, however I'm unsure on that, and with ground chicken necks so cheap I would stick to that.
Hopefully someone will have some more information cuttlebone.

Last edited by x.l.r.8; April 26th, 2007 at 09:56 PM.
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Old April 27th, 2007, 08:14 AM
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Colubridz Colubridz is offline
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Oh that's so cool I didn't realise you could get the butcher to grind up the backs/chicken legs for you and I certainly don't mind paying the extra $10. I think I'll go that route while still providing rec bones and those pig necks that you suggested.

Kayla
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Old April 27th, 2007, 12:33 PM
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If the pup is getting constipated, then too much bone is being feed. And really Bone should only make up a small part of the diet. 80% meat, 10-15% bone and 5-10% organs.

I never feed anything too boney. I don't feed necks & backs. If i did though, I'd feed them with a side of boneless meat or organs. Whole chickens cut in halfs or quarters. Lamb or pork necks. Lamb or pork ribs. Pretty much all lamb or pork is great. Never feed marrow rec (wreck) bones as they're known as teeth busters. If the stool is crumbly as it exits, then your feeding too much bone.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
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