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Old April 2nd, 2007, 11:35 AM
Cram Cram is offline
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Raw bones?

I was just wondering what type of raw bone to get for Helix. We gave him a small beef marrow bone with a bit of meat and tendon on the outside, and he definitely enjoyed it. I took it away after he had licked all the marrow out of the inside (it took a couple of days). But I've been reading that the thick marrow bones may not be good because they can chip their teeth on them. Is there a better type of bone to ask the butcher for? I would rather not get super meaty bones because I think he'll just make a huge mess! I'm thinking of going with lamb or buffalo, as I suspect Helix gets itchy after eating beef. And I've heard that neck or rib bones are good options. Any suggestions?
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 11:54 AM
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i give beef neck bones as a recreational chew. But if your trying to avoid beef, you could try pork neck bones.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

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Old April 2nd, 2007, 12:28 PM
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or a big skinless turkey neck bone. not messy and very crunchy
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 12:38 PM
SARAH SARAH is offline
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I would avoid the porc bones ... raw porc meat is never 100% safe and I wouldn't trust the bones either as there's blood left on them (and marrow).

Mine get sick from bones, so they get none, regardless of animal origin, rawhide etc. Strange.
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 12:43 PM
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i have given odin mainly beef, but also elk and buffalo from a pet health store. he likes any bones. i had never heard that they could chip their teeth on them. if you have a link to one of those articles could you send it to me?
thanks!
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 01:53 PM
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Bobby and Amber get the smoked bison bones. I tried them on bones from the butcher shop but Bobby particularly had trouble with them - he usuall vomitted some time during the night. No problems at all with the smoked bison bones - no chipped teeth either...
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 02:03 PM
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i had never heard that they could chip their teeth on them. if you have a link to one of those articles could you send it to me?
ummm, would photos of my dog's chipped teeth do?..
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAH View Post
I would avoid the porc bones ... raw porc meat is never 100% safe and I wouldn't trust the bones either as there's blood left on them (and marrow).

Mine get sick from bones, so they get none, regardless of animal origin, rawhide etc. Strange.
omg not blood!

Not sure where you've heard this, but countless people feed raw pork all the time.

As for the Wreck (rec) bones, taken from the raw feeding list.

Quote:
Recreational bones - generally those that are sold under names such
as "soup bones," knuckle bones," or "marrow bones" - come from the
leg bones of large ungulates like adult cows, bison, elk, moose,
deer, etc. These are the weight-bearing bones of VERY large prey
animals, and are extremely dense bones. They also, almost without
fail, come seriously lacking in meat. What we end up with then is
merely a recipe for disaster. The bones are so hard and dense in
order to hold up such a massive animal, that they're frequent tooth
breakers. I can speak for many folks who have dogs that have
suffered in this regard - painful and expensive breaks, cracks,
wear, slab fractures.

The prey animal that these come from is just holding up so much
weight with that bone, and it's so very dense, that it's not
something that our carnivores are able to tackle safely.
Particularly when there's no meat on the bone to speak of from the
get go. Why bother? Even wolves have been documented as
consistently leaving these kinds of bones at the kill site unless
completely desperate with hunger. Our domestic carnivores never
need be desperate enough to have to settle for such a nutritionally
deficient and dangerous bone. Better by far to offer meaty, bone-in
items with bones that are at least theoretically edible.

The exception to the large ungulate weight-bearing bone "rule"
(although the bone itself is still inedible) might be something like
a beef shank with all the meat still on the bone. At least in that
case the carnivore actually gets a meal out of it and the workout
and tooth cleaning from tearing the meat off the bone, and then you
can just take the bone away once the meat is gone and before the
diner gets any ideas about playing hero on a tooth breaker "wreck"
bone.

I hope that clarifies why this list does not endorse the sale
of "recreational bones."
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott_B View Post
i give beef neck bones as a recreational chew. But if your trying to avoid beef, you could try pork neck bones.
Do you just let him eat the meat off the bone, or does he ingest some bone as well?

I'm trying to clarify because P eats bison neck bones - he eats the meat and then chews on the bone for a bit, eating some of it. So should I take it away when the meat's gone or let him keep it for a little bit longer? Recreational bones confuse me.
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 05:20 PM
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No, i let him gnaw away at the bone. Neck bones i find softer and much more edible. Once they get a bit worn, replace em.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 05:44 PM
ArboretumGreg ArboretumGreg is offline
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Its "exercise" to gnaw, not recreation

For what its worth, it is my belief that dogs gnaw on bone to get "exercise", in other words to keep their jaw muscles in tone. Since in nature they would have
to do all their hunting with their mouths, the tone and strength of the jaw muscles are the difference between eating and starving. So in my opinion, the food value in the bones gnawed on by pets isn't the main issue. So if they have a bone to satisfy their gnawing instinct, your other possessions are less at risk.
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 06:27 PM
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Got it! Thanks Scott
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 08:24 PM
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I am really upset about this. I had been giving my two raw meaty bones for a few months now & each time they chew on it, they chew off such big pieces that they end up puking them out the next morning. For instance, they were getting big lamb bones & would bite the knuckles off & swallow them, which they puked up. So, we then sawed off the knuckles, but they still bit off such big pieces of the bones that they ended up puking those out as well! Sometimes, they will even puke on small tidbits too.

Two weeks ago, I bought them a dried scapula, thinking that they would knaw on it for a few days, but they ended up devouring it in 15 minutes--of course, they puked it all out the next morning--BIG & SMALL pieces. Why can other dogs handle raw bones & mine cannot?
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technodoll View Post
ummm, would photos of my dog's chipped teeth do?..
So, do you still feed raw bones since they have chipped teeth? I have heard of this happening a lot.
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 08:30 PM
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only one has chipped teeth, they're genetically flawed (weak) but yes he still gets bones but no more beef bones, the "thickest"bones he gets are are pork ribs & spine, roast attached. I had to learn the hard way with this puppy
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldens4Ever View Post
I am really upset about this. I had been giving my two raw meaty bones for a few months now & each time they chew on it, they chew off such big pieces that they end up puking them out the next morning. For instance, they were getting big lamb bones & would bite the knuckles off & swallow them, which they puked up. So, we then sawed off the knuckles, but they still bit off such big pieces of the bones that they ended up puking those out as well! Sometimes, they will even puke on small tidbits too.

Two weeks ago, I bought them a dried scapula, thinking that they would knaw on it for a few days, but they ended up devouring it in 15 minutes--of course, they puked it all out the next morning--BIG & SMALL pieces. Why can other dogs handle raw bones & mine cannot?
It must be something with goldens. I cannot give either of my dogs raw bones because they chipped off pieces in no time at all. I was afraid they would swallow the pieces so have stopped giving them.
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Old April 2nd, 2007, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
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It must be something with goldens. I cannot give either of my dogs raw bones because they chipped off pieces in no time at all. I was afraid they would swallow the pieces so have stopped giving them.
WHEW! I'm not the only one who has dogs that does this with raw meaty bones then, what a relief. Maybe it is a golden thing!

But, I am really upset about it, as I really liked giving them those raw meaty bones & they LOVED THEM SO MUCH!!!!!! But, I just can't have them biting off such big pieces like they do & there's nothing I can do to prevent that. I don't like rawhides, pig ears, cow hooves, & those alike, so I am just reverting back to their plain, natural sterilized shin bones, which are not very interesting, regardless if I put stuff in the middle of them or not. Many people have said that those are too 'hard' for their dogs, but so far, those are the only ones that are good, all around, for my two. :sad:
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Old April 3rd, 2007, 06:05 AM
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Part of it, is knowing your dog. If you don't have a power chewer, you may be able to get away with these wreck bones. That said, the only way your gonna know there is a problem, is when its too late, teeth are cracked or broken. Some dogs may not be able to handle neck bones either.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
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Old April 3rd, 2007, 10:31 AM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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I have a golden retriever as well and I must say that when we used to give him rec bones once a week, we had no issues with him biting off big pieces. One time he managed to bite off a very small piece from his beef marrow bone but that's about it. He loves raw rec bones but we have stopped giving them to him once I learned that they can chip/break teeth. I'm pretty sure he would be okay because he went for months with the rec bones and no chips or breaks, but better safe than sorry. The only bones he gets now are edible bones from chicken, turkey, and pork.
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Old April 4th, 2007, 11:43 AM
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The dog is a HUGE factor in this. If your dog is a power chewer, don't give him dangerous items. Period. Bones that have been cooked are obviously at the highest of the list, but even rec bones can crack or damage their teeth.

I give my golden retriever knuckle bones and marrow bones (with marrow scraped out) all the time. He is never left unsupervised with them, but even so, a little 4 inch $3 marrow bone will last him MONTHS if I let him (until I end up throwing it out). He'll chew the meat off in one sitting, then chew the bone when he's in the mood. He is not a power chewer (he plays with them more than he chews them), and since he loves them so much, I'll offer a new one to him as an outside treat or just a reward at the end of the day.

There were times when he was younger when he would really get into it (obsessive chewing), and so I made it clear that this was not to way to chew these bones. He now gently chews them (scrapes with his back teeth), or scrapes them with this front teeth. He's never bitten off pieces (he doesn't even try anymore), so I don't worry about it. The first time he does though, would be the last.
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Old April 4th, 2007, 12:58 PM
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LOL, Helix is definitely not a power chewer! He's been chewing things a bit more lately because he's finally losing his baby teeth (yay! found him chewing on one yesterday ...), but he seriously has never gotten through a bully stick, even though he's had it for weeks. I probably won't give him marrow bones anymore (after I found out that the marrow is hugely high in calories!). So I think I'll ask our butcher for some lamb and turkey neck bones, maybe even some buffalo neck bones. He's just a little guy, so they'll have to be small and not too meaty or he won't have to eat supper for a week! Thanks for all the advice everyone!
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