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  #1  
Old February 14th, 2007, 04:52 AM
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Raw update

well i've been trying jag out on raw. today at the 24 hr A&P i bought 3 turkey backs at 75 cents each.and i gave jag 1 and he loved it.also picked him up some chicken legs and thighs and pork ribs.up till today he's had with no soft poops or runs.so far he's had steak, liver and chicken.and is much happier after eating.also i want to pickup some live whole fish.does it have to be frozen first to kill of anything in the fish as of worms or other parisites.i would like to feed some of the frozen prepackaged pollock,haddock.how often should they have fish.
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  #2  
Old February 14th, 2007, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
i want to pickup some live whole fish
You have a salt water fish tank to keep them alive in?

The fish I get is already frozen. So I just thaw and freeze, however some people I know will serve fresh fish. You can freeze for a few days just to be safe if your concerned. Freezing does nothing to the quality of the meat. There is a type of Salmon That you should freeze as it does carry a parasite. Mackerel & herring are excellent choices as well.

Frequency, really, when ever. I usually feed fish two times a week. I don't really have a set schedule for anything. I go down to the freezer, look in and grab something. Variety over time
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
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Old February 14th, 2007, 05:16 AM
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thanks.no tank was thing of buying fresh and feeding that day our grocery store has live tapia.i was told to freeze or the parisites.but rozen works just as well.
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Old February 14th, 2007, 10:15 AM
x.l.r.8 x.l.r.8 is offline
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I think it's A&P or price chopper that does herrings for 99c/lb in the frozen section, they were doing trout at 89c /lb last week, be carefull going over board untill you are sure they like the fish, were having trout tonight again while the dogs tuck into pork
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Old February 14th, 2007, 12:44 PM
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jag likes fish.but he's only had cooked,sardines or tuna canned.the good thing about A&P i can shop after work.
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Old February 14th, 2007, 12:54 PM
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jag just thru up a peice o turkey bone rom this morning.is that normal.
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Old February 14th, 2007, 07:31 PM
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Could be yeah. Rosco has twice vommited a meal he had much later. Once was a beef tongue that he ate 4 hours before. Next time was organ mix. both times I think he got into something outside.

sometimes they can pick up a bug that may upset their stomach. Did he try to eat it again?
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
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Old February 14th, 2007, 07:39 PM
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my little girl, when she was younger, would sometimes throw up a piece of undigested bone a day or two after she had eaten it. nothing else, just some yellow bile and the chunk of bone. it's the body's way of getting rid of something that won't pass... better that than an obstruction! she's then learned to better chew her meals since then
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Old February 15th, 2007, 03:07 AM
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Thanks thats what came up with the bone piece.at least i know now that it is normal.he took his time eting it.almost ahalf hour.
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Old February 15th, 2007, 09:26 PM
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jag is now getting a paste like stool.what is best to help with this.he is also starting to chew his food better.but it's like a doggy drug for him.he eats and then he's a mental moron happy puppy bouncing everywhere.it's nice to see him so happy.
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  #11  
Old February 15th, 2007, 10:15 PM
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occasional soft stools are ok, nothing un-natural about it... diarrhea is another matter. you could up the bone content to firm things up, or add some canned pure pumpkin (not the pumpkin pie filler), some probiotics often do wonders. meaty-meals will often cause soft stools, so will feeding too much liver. it's a trial-and-error thing with raw, every dog is different... but his energy and happiness are telling you you're on the right path!
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Old February 15th, 2007, 10:49 PM
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thanks TD.maybe it's just me but i'm just as happy as he is.it's only one meal a day till kibble is gone then that's it all raw.
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Old February 16th, 2007, 07:42 AM
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ah... maybe the soft poops come from the kibble eh? his body is starting to reject the bad stuff!
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Old February 17th, 2007, 12:18 AM
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TD maybe but he still likes his kibble.might switch him over earlier.but don't know what to do with kibble.feeding raw has benn more $$$.but all grocery store.ok bought some pork feet, nz lamb bone in for stew,lamb shoulder blade chops,chicken liver,turkey drumsticks,and 2 turkey backs for $18.the turkey backs were previuosly frozen.is it ok to refreeze and thaw and feed jag.if not will be gone in a couple days anyway.also feeding my bro's dog ben raw also.so what i bought is feeding 2 dogs.
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Old February 17th, 2007, 11:41 AM
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when i made the final switch, i gave the rest of dakotah's kibble to a homeless kid who had a dog... he was thrilled

and i never pay more than $1 per pound for meat, any meat. i watch the sales, i ask butchers for scraps, i buy in bulk from meat distributors... I am feeding two large dogs for $150 per month and that includes canned fish, eggs, yogurt, cottage cheese, green tripe on top of the raw meaty bones and pure meat.. mostly beef, chicken, pork and some turkey. i can't afford lamb or goat or anything else
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Old February 17th, 2007, 04:05 PM
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going to start checking with the butchers.the meat i've been buying has been on sale.i bought my boy a half rabbit,beef heart and pork riblets.the rabbit is or jag.the rest has been for ben also.so it's to large breed dog i've been buying for also.going to hopeully check butchers tomorrow.right now with working the hours i do it's easier to hit the grocery store.but i'm having fun with the raw adventure anyways.

Last edited by angeldogs; February 17th, 2007 at 04:07 PM. Reason: f button not working right.
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  #17  
Old February 17th, 2007, 05:26 PM
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bargain-hunting can be come addictive, eh? today we picked up a few packs of regular ground beef for $0.99/lbs, we mix that with chicken frames we grind ourselves ($8 for 35 lbs). that is our base mix, we add lots of fresh stuff to it.

to stretch the ground mix and add some extra fiber, once a month i'll boil up some brown rice and a bag of frozen mixed vegetables in some water, let cool and puree in the blender. Pack that up in plastic containers and store in the freezer, thaw a container per week. I use about two tablespoons once a day (per dog), in their ground meals. costs me about $2 for the month

i wish i could find some affordable rabbit... the kids have never had any, it's too expensive

oh and one dog is 83 lbs, one is 128 lbs and both are still growing. it would cost us MORE in kibble and canned foods to feed these little monsters, than it does raw.
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Old February 18th, 2007, 09:43 AM
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the whole rabbit was $18.00. it was $8.00 for the half.i found some cornish hens for $6 and change.i want to try.jag last weighing he was 76lbs.i still pick him up and he felt heavier this time.ben was 72lbs.he will get bigger with the bull mastif in him.i just need to figure how much to feed him.iwas told with his weight and energy.i would give him 2lbs a day.so ibought a digitl scale.and only 1oz of organs 2 times a week.once i get it all figured out it will be just raw.no kibble.and yes bargan-hunting is addicting
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Old February 18th, 2007, 10:30 AM
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yep, most dogs need anywhere between 1.5% and 4% of their body weight in food per day (small dogs, puppies and working dogs needing the most). if your dog seems to lose some weight on raw, feed red meats, fattier meats or feed more lean meats, the opposite is true for helping a dog shed unwanted weight. so easy!

don't forget the essential supplements once kibble is gone:

1 x Ester-C
1 x Vitamin E
1 x Fish Oil capsule

a few times per week is good.
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Old February 18th, 2007, 07:34 PM
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we are unsure about supplements we tried the digestie emzymes and got a pink color in his stool and then stopped them.we were told jag will need 2lbs aday so still must do some fiqures.
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Old February 18th, 2007, 09:46 PM
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what kind of digestive enzyme did you give, and how much?
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Old February 18th, 2007, 10:48 PM
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we gave him swiss herbal broad spectrum.at 1 day.
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  #23  
Old February 18th, 2007, 10:56 PM
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i was just on a raw webesite.and they showed their calculations for how much a day to feed.they had there dog eating this amount.

1.7 lbs x 60% ( RMBs)
1.7 lbs x 35% ( muscle meat)
1.3 lbs x 5% ( organ meat)

I don't under stand how they got the 1.3 lbs aday of organ meat.when everthing else is 1.7 lbs.me confused.
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  #24  
Old February 19th, 2007, 02:02 AM
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I really wouldn't worry about the slight number difference, it's not exactaly a science, it's a throw it down and if you think you left something out add it in the next feed or give a treat later on.
I like this diet as you can afford to give (or not give) a balance and still know your doing right, cut back a bit on this and add some more of that, collect the left overs one night, puree the veg add in an egg or two and some gravy or fish oil and voilla.
Next day feed something high in bone and a bit of extra liver, and then later all meat or a beef heart.
I was a bit worried at first but sometimes I'm stingy with a days food, mainly when I'm running out of dethawed meat and I want to clean the bowl it's all kept in. I know the next meal may be a hunk of meat so I don't worry if it's a little light on calories, it's coming with the next meal anyhow.
Now I think, 'hey, what ever you give it's all usable energy, and thats more then they would get from any processed food so you can't go wrong'. If you are worried jsut come on line and like me, you will find the answers, and possibly more importantly, the encouragement to get you through
Riley is on about 1.5 lbs a day and is doing great on it, I may need to cut down a little but that would require weighing and that takes the fun out of it.
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Old February 19th, 2007, 03:32 AM
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I'm going to start off at 2.75% of body weigh.which is 2.1 lbs per day.my only concern is i was told to only feed organs only 2 times a week no more then 1oz.and what i've read so far he would get about 1.5 oz per meal.so not sure what to do about the organs.i'm going to try jag on 2 raw meals today.he had 1/4 of rabbit yesterday and he will get the rest today.and some ground beef.turkey back and some heart.between the 2 meals.to make his 2.1lbs for the day.
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Old February 19th, 2007, 06:06 AM
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This is what I was talking about in regards to barf feeding vs a prey model raw feeding in terms of simplicity.

This ratio is flawed. What animal is 60% bone?
60% ( RMBs)
35% ( muscle meat)
5% ( organ meat)

80% meat, 10-15% bones and 5-10% organs. This is the ideal portions for a raw diet. but you don't have to measure this out at every feeding. And there is no rule to say this has to be followed strictly. If you provide a variety of meats, then you'll be fine. The whole 1oz twice a week thing..wow thats just plain weird. My guy gets organs when i remember. I feed whole beef hearts or Beef tongue which are both muscles but considered organs. Of course I also feed liver & kidney. But I will add some meat or a boney meal (turkey or chicken necks/backs).

Usually all I do is grab something out the freezer and thats what he gets. Like yesterday, he got a beef heart for breakfast. I gave him a pork hock for supper. This morning some boneless beef. For supper tonight, maybe some lamb ribs. Or I may grab a few herring out. Doesn't really matter though. As long as he gets a variety over time, thats fine. no need to measure it all out.

Also, i kinda disagree with the supplement thing, but again, thats just me. Unless your pet needs it, IMO don't bother. Providing a variety of meats will provide all the nutrients they need. But again, that comes down to personal choice.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
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Old February 19th, 2007, 07:11 AM
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My guy gets organs when i remember. I feed whole beef hearts or Beef tongue which are both muscles but considered organs.
umm no, they really are muscle meats, not organs Organs = a body part that filters something (think kidneys, liver) or provide digestive aid (think gall bladder, pancreas, etc). the heart is muscle, so is the tongue. you can feed these in massive amounts and not get the resulting liquid poops typical with overfeeding organ meats
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  #28  
Old February 19th, 2007, 07:29 AM
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Well, we can agree to disagre again then

They are indeed organs but are considered a muscle meat.

Few quotes from the rawfeeding list from other users

"Tongue is considered a muscle meat like the heart, it's an organ but it's a
muscle."

"While the tongue is an organ, it is also muscle."

From Chris
"Like the heart and the gizzard, tongue is an organ that is also a
muscle. It's one of those body parts that can be used when looking to
feed a goodly amount of organ meats...but without really trying. Most
people think only of liver and kidney as feedable organs. Tain't true.

http://www.answers.com/topic/tongue

"The fleshy, movable, muscular organ, attached in most vertebrates to
the floor of the mouth, that is the principal organ of taste, an aid in
chewing and swallowing, and, in humans, an important organ of speech.
An analogous organ or part in invertebrate animals, as in certain
insects or mollusks."

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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
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  #29  
Old February 19th, 2007, 09:38 AM
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all depends on the terminology you use, scott... skin is the body's largest organ, yet you don't go feed it as "an organ", it's just skin

Let's stick to simplicity and common sense, specially when new people are looking to understand the whole thing... "organs" are to be fed in small amounts and mean anything located in the lower abdominal cavity that aid in digestion or processing, filtering nutrients: liver, kidneys, pancreas, gall bladder. think of organs as "sponges"

"muscle meats" are to be fed in large quantities and mean any part of the body which is made of muscle tissue, including stomach walls (ie green tripe), hearts, tongues, butt cheeks, leg muscle, etc Think of muscles as anything that contracts and moves.
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  #30  
Old February 19th, 2007, 09:44 AM
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Well, like I said, we can agree to disagree then.

I stand by my original statement that they are organs, but are fed as a muscle meat.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
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