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  #1  
Old January 7th, 2007, 02:59 PM
Rottielover Rottielover is offline
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Unhappy Bland diet again.....:(

ok, we just got back from the vet again, anyways, we did another xray to make sure everything passed with the obstruction, and found his lower intestines full with gas, not a ball, but thouroghly threw them. He has been having extremely soft stool for 7 days now, and the past couple days has been mush, and extremely foul.
I was worried he might have caught something, so took him in, and glad I did.
I also did a fecel analysis, because I was not 100% satisfied that he does not have an infection somewhere. Same symtems he had when he had gardidia.
Now they wanted to put him on the vet diet, which is by SD, I said no way, I will make the bland diet.
Curious, they want him on it a full week, and to up fiber intake. What and how much would you reccomend for an active 107lb rott.
Right now he had boiled burger and rice, but not helping, and he is starving
Thank you guys for any imput
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Old January 7th, 2007, 03:06 PM
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What do you feed him normally? I would guess that approx the same bulk amount for the bland diet would be appropriate. I usually do about 50% meat and then mix rice and mashed frozen veggies (or ground up fresh) for the other half.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 03:23 PM
Rottielover Rottielover is offline
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they just want him on meat and rice for 1 week . he normally eats raw, and 4 cups of good kibble a day
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Old January 7th, 2007, 03:24 PM
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INSOLUBLE fiber generates gas and bloating, which are the products of carbohydrate fermentation that occurs when the fiber reaches colonic bacteria in the large intestine. SOLUBLE fiber, however, is found in fruits, vegetables, oats, barley etc.
Eagle makes a great product that I like Holistic Solution, however is does contain pre/probiotics and in some cases dogs with these issues do poorly with supplementing "biotics" until the mucus layer has regenerated. I might give it a go though, as your "repair" will be faster. Perhaps going slow, and watching closely is the answer. Most certainly adding SOLUBLE fiber will be a big help, and I use 3-5 grams per day.

Good luck
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Old January 7th, 2007, 03:37 PM
Rottielover Rottielover is offline
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The only kibble harley has been able to digest has been natural balance, all others have caused irritations in his stomache....Thank you for that much needed advice... appreciate it.
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Old January 7th, 2007, 03:40 PM
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i'm sorry for poor harley... wish i could help, i don't know much about cooked diets but if my dogs would get sick i would stick with lean ground boneless meats and a supercooked mush of brown rice & cooked veggies (all pureed & mixed with the ground meat). very easy to digest, very soft, no raw bones, full of natural enzymes, and also add some active probiotic capsules. the rice and the veggies provide the soluble fiber and the meat gives enzymes, protein and enough calories so the dog doesn't feel starved.... well that's what i would do....
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Old January 7th, 2007, 03:43 PM
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When we do cooked bland diets we usually use boiled skinless chicken with mashed potatoes,cooked oatmeal,pasta or rice.
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  #8  
Old January 7th, 2007, 03:46 PM
Rottielover Rottielover is offline
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Thank you for the ideas....TD, I do not want to do RAW, we are having a stool culture done, might be a tad ecoli, or semoneli, I will know tomorrow...
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Old January 7th, 2007, 03:48 PM
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good luck for the results!
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Old January 8th, 2007, 08:46 AM
Rottielover Rottielover is offline
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Sorry, I forgot to mention what he has is called colitis. Now we have to find out what caused it, either IBD or bacteria somewhere.
Today he is constipated. My worries are he is so full of gas, but he has not passed anything yet . Not even stinky farts.
Can not wait for the results to come back.....I will let you all know.
By the way thank you for all your help. I will also ask her about adding certain veggies to the bland.
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  #11  
Old January 8th, 2007, 01:26 PM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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Our pup had colitis when he was younger. I know exactly what you are going through and how frustrating it is. Our vet at the time put him on Medi-Cal Fibre Formula and a round of antibiotics until his poops returned to normal. It worked but more like a band-aid type solution. Once he was off the antibiotics and back to regular kibble, the colitis returned. We switched to a holistic vet and on his advice switched Barkley to raw and we haven't had a problem with colitis since. For some reason, Barkley just couldn't digest kibble properly (we tried about 5 different kibbles - all higher quality). Our holistic vet said that the antibiotics given to Barkley by the previous vet did more harm than good because they killed all the good bacteria in his system as well as the bad and as a result his immune system was very weak and he ended up with a UTI on top of the colitis. It was a real mess. Once we switched him to raw and probiotic capsules, the colitis and UTI went away with no antibiotics required. I notice that you feed both raw and kibble. Would you consider switching completely to raw and see if it works for your dog as well? I know every dog is different, but it might be worth a shot.
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  #12  
Old January 8th, 2007, 01:33 PM
Rottielover Rottielover is offline
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I would love to feed just raw, but can not afford it. He is a very active 110 lb rottweiler, and it would cost way to much. We tried just raw, but he seemed to have lost weight on it, so I thought this would be best for him..
I think I will call the holistic vet around here, to hear her take
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Old January 8th, 2007, 01:49 PM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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Hi Rottielover,
It's too bad you can't find a good butcher in your area. We recently did this and RAW is turning out to cost us less than kibble did! If you do it solely from supermarket meat or pre-packaged frozen raw from pet stores, it definitely can get very expensive, unless you hit a sale at the supermarket and stock up.
Good luck with the holistic vet and let us know what he/she says and how the further tests turn out.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 02:23 PM
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i agree with viola... you need to watch out for sales and stock up. we make our own pre-ground patties and can feed our two dogs (127 lbs and 83 lbs) an all-raw diet for $100 per month. It would cost us at least $180 with premium (Evo) kibble & wet food. And you can't beat an all-natural raw diet for nutrition... my little girl eats 1 tablespoon of kibble and will have severe diarrhea for 2 days. some dogs just cannot digest kibble

i'd be curious to see what a holistic vet would have to say about harley's condition, please good news soon! i know how worried you must be.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
We tried just raw, but he seemed to have lost weight on it, so I thought this would be best for him..
Yeah, when we switched Barkley to raw he lost weight too. No, actually he didn't lose weight exactly, he just didn't gain any, which was odd because he was 5 month old puppy and was growing. Feeding raw is not a very high-calorie form of feeding, especially if you're not feeding a lot of fatty skin, etc. It is definitely a very healthy, lean diet. We increased his raw intake and he put on the weight beautifully. He looks fantastic now.

By the way, I know you said that raw would cost you too much to feed solely, but in the long run, if he does well on it you'll be saving all that $ on vet fees that you're currently dishing out because of the colitis, tests, re-tests, possible medication, etc. In the end, it may still be the cheaper option and if not, at least the same as feeding kibble and raw.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 03:06 PM
Rottielover Rottielover is offline
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What worries me the most is I saw the xray, all the gas in his lower intestine, anll entangled. Yet, he did not poop today, he has not even farted, or burped. So does this mean he is keeping it all in, if That is the case, can't that be toxic?
Also I can not buy in bulk, no where to store it, remember my daughter has to eat too.
Soon harley will have his own wing at the vet office, lol
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Old January 8th, 2007, 03:09 PM
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may i mention... our boy was on a mix of kibble and raw for a while and didn't do very well on it... in August he weighed a skinny 107 lbs... we then put him on a raw-only diet and upped his caloric intake with richer cuts of meat such a regular ground beef and pork, chicken and turkey with skin, raw eggs, canned fish, eliminated the grains, etc (he got on average 2.5 to 3 lbs of food per day). 4 months later he gained 20 lbs of lean muscle mass and looks awesome, and he's not done growing!

poor harley, that gas cannot be comfortable! eeek! i really hope it passes soon and doesn't come back!

yep holistic vet... buy a small 2nd hand chest freezer... imagine what you could buy if you eliminate the vet bills, LOL! ah but we love our kids eh?
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Last edited by technodoll; January 8th, 2007 at 03:12 PM.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 03:17 PM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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In the x-ray, did it show only gas or did he even have any food to poop out? I know you're waiting for the second set of results to tell you what caused the colitis, but did the vet give him anything for the gas or the discomfort thereof?
When you feed the kibble and raw, do you feed them at the same time or at separate meals? If it's at the same meal, it could be problematic. He might be having trouble digesting them because kibble and raw take different lengths of time to digest and the kibble could be blocking things up as it takes longer. This could lead to potential bacteria build up I would imagine because it means that the raw food is staying in his system longer becuase of the kibble, than it would otherwise, thus giving the bacteria more time to set up shop inside.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 03:19 PM
Rottielover Rottielover is offline
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Ok, I just want to mention he was doing great with the raw and kibble...this all started with his obstruction. I think the piece of bone damaged his colon. Plus a mix of bacteria.
Harley has tried many holistic kibbles and failed, but has been amazing on karnivore raw, and DVP. I just really want to know what exactly is causing this.
750mg 2 times a day on metronizdole is going to destroy his liver.. he is on it for 14 days.
called the vet will not have the culture back for another day or 2, because it was the weekend.
I need to find things easy to digest, and extremely high in fiber.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 03:26 PM
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I often use oatmeal instead of rice. It has more fiber and IMO is easier to digest. The dogs absolutely love it.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 04:23 PM
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I don't have any advice that hasn't already been given, but I wanted to wish Harley (and you) luck with this... Good luck!
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Old January 8th, 2007, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
I need to find things easy to digest, and extremely high in fiber.
if you need something to keep harley's system "flowing", ie no obstructions and constipation, LIVER is the key. raw or cooked it doesn't matter. if you feed too much it will even give diarrhea, so you don't need much at all, plus it's an excellent food. fiber in the form of grains, any kind of grain, is good for a ruminant... not for a carnivore
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  #23  
Old January 8th, 2007, 04:39 PM
Rottielover Rottielover is offline
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I tried turkey liver, chicken liver, beef liver. He will not touch it. personally I do not blame him, it is really gross, what about wheat pasta, ???
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Old January 8th, 2007, 05:00 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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I think the complex carbs would make it harder to digest. Rice and oats are much easier.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 05:37 PM
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i've never met a dog who can resist baked liver... do they exist? LOL

rottielover, mine won't get within 10 feet of raw liver
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  #26  
Old January 8th, 2007, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rottielover View Post
I tried turkey liver, chicken liver, beef liver. He will not touch it. personally I do not blame him, it is really gross, what about wheat pasta, ???
Have you tried searing the liver? It brings the flavor out and usually will turn the fussiest of pups.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 06:45 PM
Rottielover Rottielover is offline
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Nope, will not touch it at all, only dehydrated, but gives him the runs after a few of them....Well walked for 30 mins, still has not pooped, I am calling the vet
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Old January 8th, 2007, 06:52 PM
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Im in Prins boat here, I have nothing new to offer in the form of advice but would like to offer my support.
Keeping Harley and you in my thoughts, for him to overcome this.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 07:01 PM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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Rottielover, let us know what the vet says. I know how worried you must be because it's been so long since he's pooped.
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Old January 8th, 2007, 07:09 PM
Rottielover Rottielover is offline
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They said do not worry, sometimes it can take days after a long bout of diareah, and that the gas must have passed mildly somehow because he is not uncomfortable. He still is his happy go lucky self, but hungrier. Poor guy
Thank you all for standing behind me on another one of harleys misfortunes....
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