Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog food forum > Cat food forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old January 4th, 2007, 01:33 PM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
There's a whole debate about organic though. They say that if all the farms we have now were organic, we wouldn't have enough food to feed the world and the rainforests would be gone completely. Also, because of non-"organic" processes used in farming, we make 30% more on 10% more land.

There are some organic things that just don't make sense either. Like organic peanut butter and organic honey. Peanuts have a fungus that is VERY toxic to humans in any quantity. Without the pesticide for the fungus, the peanuts are so risky. With bees, they're given specific preventative antibiotics and without them they usually get sick and die. And besides, organic farms can never be free of the pesticides all around them, and as a result, you end up paying way more for something that isn't really organic, even if the farmer didn't spray himself.

Sorry,
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old January 4th, 2007, 01:44 PM
technodoll's Avatar
technodoll technodoll is offline
Honest Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 5,900
Quote:
Originally Posted by prin
There are some organic things that just don't make sense either. Like organic peanut butter and organic honey. Peanuts have a fungus that is VERY toxic to humans in any quantity. Without the pesticide for the fungus, the peanuts are so risky. With bees, they're given specific preventative antibiotics and without them they usually get sick and die. And besides, organic farms can never be free of the pesticides all around them, and as a result, you end up paying way more for something that isn't really organic, even if the farmer didn't spray himself
i wonder how people survived before the invention of pesticides and antibiotics then? if things are so dangerous to eat... i'm thinking this is just propaganda marketed by the companies who produce said pesticides and antibiotics. Peanuts and honey have been consumbed by humans since the beginning of time and if it had been dangerous, it would have ceased... and also i doubt that in countries where farming is a more simple procedure that they use the massive amounts of pesticides and antibiotics that we do

as for organic farming, there are strict rules and criteria to follow in order to qualify for the "organic" status, and that includes being a certain distance away from contaminated soil (not sure what the rules are for canada, i'd have to look it up) in order to ensure purity of the product...

i love organic foods but i admit the prices keep me away from it most of the time
__________________
"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine"

Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

:love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love:
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old January 4th, 2007, 01:45 PM
Scott_B's Avatar
Scott_B Scott_B is offline
Rosco, Raw Fed & LOVES IT
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 1,268
oh I agree 100%. The whole world is screwed lol.
__________________
Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old January 4th, 2007, 04:51 PM
LL1 LL1 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,326
And what does organic mean?

http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues/200..._foodstory.php
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old January 4th, 2007, 08:26 PM
technodoll's Avatar
technodoll technodoll is offline
Honest Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 5,900
good enough for me!
__________________
"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine"

Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

:love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love:
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old January 4th, 2007, 08:32 PM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
Aww, but they don't define "GMO-free". I'd love to hear their definition for that. EVERYTHING we eat is a GMO. Even our dogs are GMO.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old January 4th, 2007, 08:47 PM
technodoll's Avatar
technodoll technodoll is offline
Honest Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 5,900
Quote:
Originally Posted by prin
EVERYTHING we eat is a GMO. Even our dogs are GMO.
you eat dogs? KIDDING
__________________
"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine"

Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

:love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love:
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old January 4th, 2007, 09:15 PM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
I didn't say GME, I said GMO! (Genetically modified eatin's vs genetically modified organisms...)
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old January 5th, 2007, 07:47 PM
gypsy_girl's Avatar
gypsy_girl gypsy_girl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 309
calcium oxylate crytals

In regards to calcium oxylate crystals, PH of the urine, as well as the amount of calcium in the food are the areas where you need to look.
If you wish to do this you would need to look at the total amount of calcium in the diet per kilocalories, and see if it matches up to the food you are looking for. Normally when producing an acidic urine, struvite crystals prefer not to grow. However this is not the case with oxylate crystals, as they grow in varies degrees of acidity/alkalinity. There are options out there, but you need to do you research. I believe that www.azmira.com has a product to "grab" residual calcium to stop formation, but when I looked on the website I could not find the information, so you may want to call.
In relation to ash, ash in the total mineral content of a food, and the reason it is described as ash, as it is after cooking. "Ash" also exists in raw diets, however it would not be called that, as it is not cooked, it would be some of the minerals in their organic state. For this reason feeding a raw diet may or may not help this issues, depending on the amount of calcium (bone) inherent in the diet. It is great, however for struvite issues as it acidifies the urine.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old January 5th, 2007, 07:54 PM
mojo&morgan mojo&morgan is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 20
dog food

Just curious, I'm feeding my dog a food called Summit, that is supposed to be all natural and made in Canada, anyone familiar with it?
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old January 5th, 2007, 08:47 PM
gypsy_girl's Avatar
gypsy_girl gypsy_girl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 309
I think that is made by the people that make GO Natural. When I looked at it, I liked it as a less expensive food, but they make better foods, and there are better foods out there.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old January 5th, 2007, 09:08 PM
Scott_B's Avatar
Scott_B Scott_B is offline
Rosco, Raw Fed & LOVES IT
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 1,268
A lady at the park was telling me her pup was on summit and how great it was because its made by Medical. lol
__________________
Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old January 5th, 2007, 09:25 PM
gypsy_girl's Avatar
gypsy_girl gypsy_girl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 309
I just checked the website and Summit is made by the GO people, maybe there is another Summit????
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old January 5th, 2007, 09:34 PM
Scott_B's Avatar
Scott_B Scott_B is offline
Rosco, Raw Fed & LOVES IT
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 1,268
You mean made by medical? Not likely. She was just confused.
__________________
Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old January 5th, 2007, 11:09 PM
technodoll's Avatar
technodoll technodoll is offline
Honest Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 5,900
Petcurean makes Go! Natural, Foundations and Summit brand pet foods and in that order of quality.
__________________
"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine"

Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

:love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love:

Last edited by Ford; March 18th, 2008 at 02:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old January 6th, 2007, 12:29 AM
maizeydaze maizeydaze is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 4
calcium oxylate crystals

Thank you Gypsy Girl for the info on calcium oxylate crystals. I'll be looking into this more. Hopefully I can find a diet that is beneficial to my cat. I have obtained the xrays from the vet so I can show them to surgens at a vet hostpital a coulpe of hours away. Maybe the crystals that he already has can be removed. They seem to cause him much discomfort in addition to the frequent infections.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old January 6th, 2007, 12:36 AM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
Good luck!
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old January 6th, 2007, 09:33 AM
technodoll's Avatar
technodoll technodoll is offline
Honest Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 5,900
yes, good luck maizeydaze!
__________________
"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine"

Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

:love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love:
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old January 6th, 2007, 10:44 AM
Stacer's Avatar
Stacer Stacer is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,808
I had to go through the UTI/FLUTD dance a couple months ago. I had been feeding what I thought was a top quality food, and it was, except the mineral content (magnesium and phosphorous) and ash content was quite high. So after discussing with the vet that I didn't like Hill's regardless if it was prescription or not, I reluctantly bought a bag and vowed that I would use the month that he was on it to search for a better quality holistic food. I compared and analysed every holistic brand out there. I compared ash content and mineral content against the content in the prescription food (although I hated the ingredients, the Hill's did have the correct amount of ash and mineral content to maintain a healthy urinary system). I also took into consideration other ingredients such as cranberries that are known to promote urinary health. So with all of those factors I came to the conclusion that for my big boy Angus we were going to try him out on GO! Natural (Petcurean) based on mineral and ash content and the cranberries. I don't know if you can get Petcurean in the US as it is a Canadian company, but you could probably find something comparable. I also give Angus a UTI paste which I bought at a pet food store. I squeeze a teaspoon into his wet food and mix it in.

Hill's s/d has 8% Ash, 0.5% Phosphorous and 0.08% Magnesium, which are the amounts that maintain urinary health.

GO! Natural has 6.9% Ash, 0.09% Magnesium, they didn't have Phosphorous info, but I believe that Magnesium plays a more important role in crystal and stone formation than Phosphorous.

I could email you the chart that I made when I was in the thick of things if you think it will help you to decide which food to go with.

You could always go with what Technodoll said about the RAW, it is the best way to go if you've got the time and patience. It's the best guarantee that you won't have a reoccurance.
__________________
"One cat just leads to another." - Ernest Hemingway

Meowy Meowers - Angus n' Finn - 5 yrs old
Barky Barker - Skylar - 4 yrs old??
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old January 6th, 2007, 11:37 AM
gypsy_girl's Avatar
gypsy_girl gypsy_girl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 309
Hi Everyone

Just to clarify, most cats get struvite crystals, and this is the area where in the past ash would be involved. Ash is comprised of minerals, hence looking for "low ash" was a way of the past. You would need to concentrate on the Magnesium content. These struvite crystals are different than what was mentioned in the previous post, as these are calcium based not magnesium based, and although raw may be an answer, it IS dependant on how much bone is included in the diet. This is NOT a factor in realtion to using raw for struvite crystals, as it is ideal diet for struvite. I have included a great article, however you may want to check with your vet, as I believe calcium oxylate crystals grow in a variety of PH, not just over acidic.
http://www.peteducation.com/article....articleid=2729

Good luck
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old January 9th, 2007, 07:00 AM
OntarioGreys's Avatar
OntarioGreys OntarioGreys is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Woodstock, ON
Posts: 1,696
You mentioned you were rural, are you on well water?

Most drinking water contains minerals, on well water could maybe have higher levels of magnesium content in the water.

To help lower his daily magesium intake you could switch to using distilled which has all minerals removed or "purified" bottled water which will have most of the minerals removed http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2007.html
on it's own won't make a lot of difference, but when combined with diet may make enough of a difference so as to feed something better than the Science Diet and still achieve a low enough daily magnesium level
__________________
"He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion." - Unknown
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old March 12th, 2008, 07:16 PM
thebigoo thebigoo is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prin View Post
Hey! I found the little pamphlet with the Kirkland ingredients-

Super Premium Cat Maintenance formula:
Chicken by-product meal, ground yellow corn, brewer's rice, chicken fat, corn gluten meal, natural chicken flavor, etc etc...

Crude protein: 30%
Crude fat: 20%
Crude fiber: 2%
Ash: 5%
Magnesium: 0.1%
Taurine: 0.1%


Whereas the dog Kirkland Super Premium Lamb and rice:
Lamb, lamb meal, whole grain brown rice, rice flour, white rice, egg product, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat, beet pulp, potatoes, fishmeal, flaxseed, natural flavor, millet, brewer's dried yeast, carrots, peas, kelp, apples, dried skim milk, cranberry powder, etc etc
Looks like Costco/Kirkland has upgraded, first 2 ingredients are now Ckicken, Chicken meal, no mention of any byproducts. At one half the cost of SD for 20%+ more food.

Last edited by Ford; March 18th, 2008 at 02:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:28 AM.