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Old November 19th, 2006, 07:39 PM
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Colubridz Colubridz is offline
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4 weeks on new food and still no improvement in runny stools..

Hey guys,
I was hoping someone could give me a bit of help with my current situation. I brought home Duke, my now 14 week old Rotti/German Shepherd/ Collie puppy home about 4 weeks ago and he was originally on a very crappy diet of Nutrience and Gensis puppy food. I wanted to switch him onto something good and after doing much research on different brands and specific ingredients I decided Wellness which I was already feeding my cats was my best choice until he was older and would then consider a raw food diet. I tried to switch him over slowly over the course of a week starting off doing 1/4 Wellness and 3/4 Old stuff for a few days and then moving to 1/2 Wellness and 1/2 old stuff for a few more days and then to 3/4 Wellness and 1/4 old stuff until he was eating just Wellness. As I expected the first few days his stools were very runny and poor however they began to improve. Then just as quickly as it seemed they were getting better some trips to bathroom resulted in extremely runny/ soft stools while some where perfectly fine.

My vet gave Duke something to settle his stomach which dramatically helped improve his stools however once he was done the week treatment for upset stomach they went back to very runny/soft again. This leads me to believe his system simple isn't digesting it but I really don't want to switch down to a crappy lower food. I tried asking my vet about it but she just tried pushing hills on me and told me Wellness was very poor in comparison *cough cough*, which dosen't surprise me as most vets I have ever delt with seem to know surprisingly little outside of medical conditions.

Could anyone maybe suggest me some other high qaulity brands that I could try without going to a crap food that he might have a better time digesting? I want to look into feeding raw when hes older, hes just going to eat so much over the next 7-8 months that it'll be to costly to keep up and would rather wait till hes full grown and wont need as much.

I've also heard adding fresh pumkin can greatly help adjusting to a new food, I actually have alot of fresh raw pumkin in my fridge from halloween that weve been using for pumkin pie, can i add this to his food or do I need to bake it and then add it?

The ingredients for Wellness are listed here incase it helps.

Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Oatmeal, Ground Barley, Salmon Meal (natural source of DHA-Docosahexaneoic acid), Canola Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols, a natural source of vitamin E), Ground Brown Rice, Tomato Pomace, Rice Bran (from brown rice), Tomatoes (natural source of Lycopene), Natural Chicken Flavor, Rye Flour, Carrots, Spinach, Sweet Potatoes, Apples, Blueberries, Ground Millet, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride.

Minerals
Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate (a chelated source of zinc), Iron Proteinate (a chelated source of iron), Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Proteinate (a chelated source of copper), Copper Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate (a chelated source of manganese), Manganese Sulfate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite.

Vitamins
Beta Carotene, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin C, Vitamin A Supplement, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Choline Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Taurine, Mixed Tocopherols (a natural preservative), Chicory Root Extract, Garlic, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Green Tea Extract, Lactobacillus Plantarum, Enterococcus Faecium, Lactobacillus Casei, Lactobacillus acidophilus

WellnessŪ uses ethoxyquin-free protein sources.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein Not Less Than 28.0%
Crude Fat Not Less Than 17.0%
Crude Fiber Not More Than 5.0%
Moisture Not More Than 11.0%
Calcium Not Less Than 1.30%
Vitamin E Not Less Than 150 IU/kg
Omega 6 Fatty Acids Not Less Than 3.0%
Omega 3 Fatty Acids Not Less Than 1.0%
Beta Carotene* Not Less Than 5 mg/kg
DHA* Not Less Than 0.13%
Lycopene* Not Less Than 0.25 mg/kg
Taurine* Not Less Than 0.09%

Thanks alot
Kayla
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Last edited by Colubridz; November 19th, 2006 at 07:44 PM.
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Old November 19th, 2006, 07:55 PM
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Wellness is a good food, but I've had very little success with it. It gave Buster crazy explosive butt diarhea!

If you want to browse dog food ingredients here's a good thread :http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=28957

Is Timberwolf Organics available around where you live? They are just starting to sell in Ontario (not in Quebec yet ), but it's one of the top foods IMO...
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Old November 19th, 2006, 10:03 PM
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Did Duke have any issues with chicken before ? Grains ? Are you giving him a different type of treat? You might want to feed him plain rice for a day or two until his stomach settles. Rather than adding pumpkin at this stage (which you can later by shredding and steaming it to soften) you might want to try psyllium to add some fibre/ bulk to his stool. After a few days of plain rice and once his poop is "firmish" try adding chicken to see whether he has a food allergy. If you think it may me a food allergy, try that process with a number of proteins until you find one he can tolerate and do the same with grains (it's possible he can't tolerate grains at all). Once you establish what he can eat you can either find a kibble with the necessary ingredients or look at a homecooked/ raw diet.
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Old November 19th, 2006, 10:59 PM
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when dakotah was a puppy, the only food that gave him firm stools was raw... we did all the kibbles, to no avail. now that he's older he can digest some kibble, very little at a time, with a digestive enzyme.. you might want to give that a try. go to your local pharmacy and look for a "broad spectrum" digestive enzyme, and give one before mealtimes. also a probiotic to help settle the GI tract might help. I have heard of many dogs not doing well on wellness (no pun intended!) even if it's a good food, it might be too rich. your puppy sounds adorable though, do you have any photos?
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Old November 20th, 2006, 05:11 AM
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My pup had poor poo when he was younger as well. Sometimes they just don't have the stomach for some things. He did great stool wise on Canidae, but we switched him off due to allergies. He went onto wellness vension, perfect stools for a week or so, then bam, the runs, switched to DVP venison, great stools, then BAM, more runs. 1 wek i put him on medical hypercrap and no change. So i finally went to Canidae lamb and rice and wow, best stools ever! (if you can say that lol) At the end i was giving him some plain yoghurt as well as pumpkin. Make sure its real pumpkin and not just pie filler. But he did great on the Canidae lamb meal & Rice. We do feed a raw diet, and his stools in comparison to when he was on kibble, are about 1/4 of the size. Theyre mostly firm, but I find on days when he gets liver they get a bit softer. Same with tripe, a bit softer.

I would say mix some plain yoghurt with pumpkin in with his meals and see how that goes.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

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Old November 20th, 2006, 05:21 AM
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Gomez had the same problems until we put him on Burns - any flavour of it and he digests it very well, great coat and super-healthy.

http://www.burns-pet-nutrition.co.uk/index.htm

Beware the yoghurt - not every dog can deal with it - Gomez got very, very ill when we started giving him even just a teaspoon...
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Old November 20th, 2006, 05:33 AM
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hmm, I've never heard of dogs not being able to deal with yoghurt. But I suppose its like anything, some dogs can, some dogs cant.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
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Old November 20th, 2006, 09:05 AM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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We also feed raw. Our vet told us that a lot of dogs can't handle dairy and unfortunately Barkley is one of those dogs...so no yogurt or cottage cheese for him. We still give him probiotics, but in powder form sprinkled on his food.
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Old November 20th, 2006, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barkley21 View Post
We also feed raw. Our vet told us that a lot of dogs can't handle dairy and unfortunately Barkley is one of those dogs...so no yogurt or cottage cheese for him. We still give him probiotics, but in powder form sprinkled on his food.

Ahh, yes good point. I actually give a Lactose Reduced yogurt.

http://www.astro.ca/products/bb_lactose.htm

But I aslo give the acidophilus capsules sprinkled on his food every so often if we dont have any yogurt.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
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Old November 20th, 2006, 11:44 AM
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You can also get non-dairy probiotics. We use Bio-K, they make a soy-based product as well as a dairy version.
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Old November 21st, 2006, 12:32 AM
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Thanks for the help guys I tried the pumkin tonight on his food but it was to dark to see how his stools were when he went out to go to the bathroom tonight so well see how they are tommorow morning and I'll keep everyone updated. Is their any tests they can do to determine food allergies as if possible id really like to stick to wellness for now until hes older and then try barf diet.
Cheers
Kayla
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Old November 21st, 2006, 01:41 AM
Prin Prin is offline
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I asked this week about the allergy tests, and my vet said they're just not accurate enough when it comes to food allergies to be worth the cost.
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Old November 21st, 2006, 05:03 AM
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Yeah. The best way to find out an allergy is an elimination diet. Eliminate all foods and stick to one protien where your pet shows no symptoms. Then slowly add a new one ever 1-2 weeks until you start to get a reaction. then take it away. If it clears up, you pretty much have your answer as to what is the cause.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
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Old November 21st, 2006, 08:38 AM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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Another way to find out what your dog is allergic to is to use auricular testing which is Kinesiology. I highly recommend the book "Holistic Care for a Healthy Dog". It has a whole chapter on this procedure and it's actually quite fun! If you have a holistic vet, they might provide that service by a professional although you could do it yourself at home but it might take a few tries to get it right.
We had it done to Barkley at the vet's office and it was very interesting. Basically, you bring in a sample of EVERYTHING you feed your dog including food, all supplements/medications, treats, even your water. Then, they place a conductive plate on the dog's back which is hooked up to the test plate. Then, one by one they place each item on the test plate and gauge your dog's resistance (energy) to that particular item. A few days before we did this test we had tried giving Barkley lamb and he got a lot of gas and had loose poops each time. We didn't mention this to the lady performing the auricular assessment however. Oddly enough, after the auricular test, the results came back showing he had an allergy to lamb. Hhhmmmmm....very interesting.
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Old November 21st, 2006, 09:40 AM
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I have that book. Written by Wendy Volhard. Honestly, Im not sure I believe in it. Holding food in your hand and on the dog, then getting somone to push down on your other arm (you hold it out straight) and judge the resistence. Seems a bit fishy to me, however some claim it does work. They say you can use this for pretty much anything, shampoos, treats, etc to see how it will do on your pet.
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Please please please give Maggie the steak! Its not too big for her little mouth!

Their impression of power is remarkable. They give one the feeling of immense reserves of energy, of great reservoirs of knowledge, of tolerance of disposition, obstinacy of purpose, and tenacity of principle. They are responsive, and they have a lot of quiet, good sense.

-J. Wentworth Day, from The Dog in Sport, 1938
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Old November 27th, 2006, 11:14 AM
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Colubridz Colubridz is offline
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Luckily the pumkin has done wonders for his stools, I'm going to keep giving him a teaspoon or so in one of his three meals a day and slowly wean him off it down the road and see if the consistancy sticks. If not then I guess I'll have to switch or try an elimination diet. One other question I had was Wellness doesn't make a large breed puppy food, most people I've asked said because its such a high qaulity diet it still promotes slow growth without all of the crap that less qaulity large breed puppy foods have. However my vet, who I'm not a huge fan of and want to switch clincs for his neuter in a few months keeps trying to push their hills large breed puppy food on me which has corn listed as the second ingredient and is full of meat by products and crap, so theirs no way I'd go that low however would anyone here recomend trying to find a slightly less qaulity food ment for large breed puppies or stick with wellness now that he's digesting it better?

Thanks
Kayla
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Old November 27th, 2006, 11:40 AM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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How about Solid Gold Wolf Cub?
Here's the link to the ingredients...http://www.solidgoldhealth.com/produ...id=61&code=180

I know a lot of people are mad at the company for changing the formulas on the Wolf King, but I'm not sure if they've changed the Wolf Cub formula or not...maybe someone else here will know the answer to that. However, it's still much better than the Hill's kibble your vet is trying to push. The Wolf Cub is also designed for large breed puppies and uses bison as its main protein source.
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Old November 27th, 2006, 01:41 PM
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Yeah, they did change it too, but it's still better than Hill's for sure.
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Old November 27th, 2006, 01:49 PM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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There you go. Thanks for clearing that up Prin I wasn't sure about the ingredient change in the Wolf Cub...glad you knew the answer.
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Old November 27th, 2006, 01:58 PM
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Still better than most puppy foods out there though. Soooo many puppy foods, even from good brands, have corn in them.
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Old November 27th, 2006, 08:16 PM
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coppperbelle coppperbelle is offline
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Runny stools.

Someone I know fed her dog Wellness and complained for months about loose poops. She gave up and switched him to Eagle Pack and the loose poops stopped immediately.
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Old November 27th, 2006, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coppperbelle View Post
Someone I know fed her dog Wellness and complained for months about loose poops. She gave up and switched him to Eagle Pack and the loose poops stopped immediately.
I've also heard this from many people. Some dogs seem to do really well on Wellness (again, no pun intended), and for others it seems to be a disaster. My dogs never did too well on it, especially the Duck, but they have other GI issues, so......

Before going through the trouble of an elimination diet, which takes a lot of time, why not just try another high quality kibble?
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Old November 27th, 2006, 10:24 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Yeah, that's probably because Wellness doesn't have the beet pulp that acts as a stool hardener that eagle pack does.
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