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Old November 12th, 2006, 08:08 AM
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Hunter killed

The Gazette
Published: Sunday, November 12, 2006
A hunter in his 70s died after he was shot yesterday afternoon in Ste. Anne du Sault, about 130 kilometres northeast of Montreal. He was on a trail with a group of other hunters at the time. Police are investigating, but said last night the shooting appears to have been an accident.
The Gazette (Montreal) 2006

I'm not saying he deserved to die but they say this shooting appears to have been an accident - yet killing wildlife is their right
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Old November 12th, 2006, 10:13 AM
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How tragic...
I know the general opinion regarding hunting on this site so I will not defend it however, I truely feel for this hunter and his family.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 11:05 AM
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I'm not sure the general population regarding hunting wouldn't agree with you Erykah and certainly your entitled to your opinion without judgement. I feel for the hunter and his family but also feel equally sad for all animals as well.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 01:49 PM
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I think shooting anything is wrong, so it's equally bad that the hunter got shot, regardless of what he was out there to do.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 03:10 PM
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I'm not saying he deserved to die but they say this shooting appears to have been an accident - yet killing wildlife is their right
What ARE you saying then? Because what you're implying is way over the line IMO.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 03:19 PM
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Sad and ironic isn't it. I think if I was the hunter i'd be like "well I guess it's my turn now, now I know what it feels like". If it was sport hunting I assume these people don't have much self empathy to extend outward, at least not to animals anyway.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 03:51 PM
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I agree Maya. I'm sorry if it offends people, but I don't care. Play with fire, you get burned, IMO. They didn't have too much empathy for the animals they're callously killing, so I have other things to worry/care about more than this.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 03:53 PM
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Yep , when people play with guns......
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Old November 12th, 2006, 04:02 PM
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Here in Ontario a woman,a wife and mother,was shot to death while out hiking,
not knowing hunting-season had started.
She was wearing a bright red sweater and jeans,what's wrong with these brave hunters,they cannot see the difference between a woman and a deer??Maybe too many brewskies??
It's like shoot first,ask questions later
Yes,I am definetly anti-hunting and I am glad I don't live anywhere near where hunting goes on.
I could not imagine living in the beautiful country side,having to listen to gun-shots disturb my peace,knowing an animal who a few days ago was gracing on my property,now is beeing blown to bits.It's just wrong IMO.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 04:05 PM
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I hear you Chico2, there's a nice trail about 10 kms from my house. I used to take the fuzzbutts there from time to time until one day when I saw 2 hunting 'houses' in trees. Never went back.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by MyBirdIsEvil View Post
What ARE you saying then? Because what you're implying is way over the line IMO.
I guess it depends on who's line I'm crossing then hey You have a right to your opinion regarding hunting or whatever ... just not on my opinions.

I am not implying anything - I am saying that it's sad someone died no matter who or how, but to call it an accident is ironic. We certainly know it wasn't self defence, was it
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Old November 12th, 2006, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by phoenix View Post
They didn't have too much empathy for the animals they're callously killing, so I have other things to worry/care about more than this.
Im just going to touch on this, for I dont want to start a heated debate on hunting.

However, how can one say that there is no empathy??? The animals that are hunted, are consumed. Mostly everything is used in some way.
The animal ( for example Moose) lived its life free, wild and happy. That is WAY more than what can be said for most of the cattle, chicken, turkey or pork that is readily available at a grocery store. They live out their short lives being pumped with hormones and being fed rendered animals ( totally out of thier diet)
I find it a lot less cruel to hunt something wild then to basically torture a captive animal so that there is enough ham and turkey to go around in time for christmas.

Yes i do understand that there are unethical hunters ( as it is with everything) who only may injure thier "prey" and not look for it causing needless suffering but as with everything there are the few people who make it so much worse than it must be.
Also, yes I do understand that it "isnt fair" that the hunter has a gun and the animal has nothing .... but what does the livestock have??? Nothing either.

I do not agree with "baiting" or "dogging" for IMO that is a lazy way to hunt. Make the dogs chase it right to you.


Not every hunter actually kills every year. My dad hasnt shot for almost 7 years now. But still enjoys going out, regardless!

No person "deserves" to die, regardless of what their "hobbies" or beliefs are. Unless they are causing severe trauma and destruction then they do deserve to be punished.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 06:40 PM
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fair enough erykah but if you didn't want to start a debate, you shouldn't have picked on my quote.

As GG said, you're entitled to your opinion, I just don't happen to agree with it. I have chased enough hunters off of my parent's land, corraled enough 'hunting dogs' who were running my horses, and dealt with enough brainless idiots with guns that my opinions are pretty fixed on this topic.

There may be some who hunt for sustenance, but not many. I've found headless carcasses dumped on the side of the road. What is that about, if not senseless killing and lack of empathy?

If we are so married to nature that we feel we want to experience the killing of it first hand, then we should be so honest as to take our turn in the food chain. But we don't do that, do we.

I can see bow hunting. I can see culling for diseased animals. But they are looking for racks (antlers) and they're using high powered machines that they can't handle. I know there are exceptions but ... in my estimation they are few and far between.

There are better cases to spend our heart on than this one.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 06:53 PM
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I wasnt "picking" on your quote but that is just the one that got to me

I do not expect everyone to agree with me for if everyone agreed with everyone else what would there be left to talk about??

I do agree that there are better cases to spend our heart on than this one, however it is tragic that someone has died. He wasnt hunted for food, it was an accident.

As far as hunting for antlers??? I really have never heard of anyone shooting an animal for the rack alone. Perhaps things are different in a far less populated area such as where i am from. Hunters from around here hunt for food. Freezers are filled with meat and the exchanges begin ( ex. we hunted moose and the neighbour hunted deer, we trade some moose for deer and so on.) Perhaps my family and comunity are the only exceptions to the "brainless idiots"

Bow hunting IMO is far more cruel than hunting with rifles or other "high powered machienes that they can not handle" with bow hunting there is a far greater chance of causing injury and suffering.

I just want it to be clear to the mods and other members that I by no means have taken any offence to any opinion stated by either Pheonix or the others.Also I hope that I have not offended anyone either. I just feel that the whole generalization of "hunters" should be cleared up. We are not all bad, as it is with pet owners, parents ect.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 07:10 PM
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Hunter killed

It is very sad to hear when anyone has to die especially in unfortunate circumstances.
Let's not forget that this man was someones son, maybe a husband, a father. They will all surely miss him and their lives will change as a result.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 07:29 PM
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I wouldn't say hunters deserve to die, but I don't think it's very surprising that one would, considering he's going off into the woods where he knows a lot of people are going to be discharging weapons. Kind of like kids playing on the railroad tracks. We have enough idiots on the road, now you're going into the woods where the same idiots have guns? (Not that all hunters are idiots.)

I don't approve of hunting because the whole idea behind it is that people ENJOY killing things. It's okay to kill for food, but to enjoy killing is a sin, IMO, whether you're going after a human, cow, deer, or ant. You're destroying a life; feel bad about it. My dad used to go deer hunting and after hearing stories from him, I have to wonder how he could bear to shoot anything. How do you shoot a deer down in a little valley that knows you're stalking him and is trying to hide by "crawling" out?

However, at least wild animals have a better quality of life than farm animals.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 08:24 PM
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As far as hunting for antlers??? I really have never heard of anyone shooting an animal for the rack alone. Perhaps things are different in a far less populated area such as where i am from. Hunters from around here hunt for food. Freezers are filled with meat and the exchanges begin ( ex. we hunted moose and the neighbour hunted deer, we trade some moose for deer and so on.) Perhaps my family and comunity are the only exceptions to the "brainless idiots"


During the week I live in the city but on weekends I live in the country. My country neighbors are not rich people and depend on the hunting season to fill their freezers and feed their families. I don't know about exchanging meat as I don't hunt and am just a weekend resident. After a couple of years they are starting to accept us city folks so maybe they will invite us to share with them one day
I will agree that there are some that ruin it for everyone. Last fall I found what I think was the stomach of a deer left on a path I walk with my dogs. I have no idea who left it there but I seriously doubt it was a local hunter.
I have relatives that do hunt and eat the meat they kill. I also have a relative that buys cow and deer hides. He in turn sells them to companies that make leather products including companies like GM. This is not a sideline business but his livelihood. No part of the animal is wasted. For some it is a sport but for many it is a way of life and no different than a farmer who kills his cow for meat for the winter.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by LM1313 View Post
I wouldn't say hunters deserve to die, but I don't think it's very surprising that one would, considering he's going off into the woods where he knows a lot of people are going to be discharging weapons. Kind of like kids playing on the railroad tracks. We have enough idiots on the road, now you're going into the woods where the same idiots have guns? (Not that all hunters are idiots.)

I don't approve of hunting because the whole idea behind it is that people ENJOY killing things. It's okay to kill for food, but to enjoy killing is a sin, IMO, whether you're going after a human, cow, deer, or ant. You're destroying a life; feel bad about it. My dad used to go deer hunting and after hearing stories from him, I have to wonder how he could bear to shoot anything. How do you shoot a deer down in a little valley that knows you're stalking him and is trying to hide by "crawling" out?

However, at least wild animals have a better quality of life than farm animals.
I, too, was once very anti-hunting, but your closing statement here was exactly what got me thinking, LM1313. The life of a beef cow is idyllic...right up until she is loaded on a rattling, crowded contraption and hauled off to a stockyard. The beef we eat from the grocery store is easy on our consciences. We don't have to look the cow in the eyes. We don't have to take responsibility for the cow's death. How many people think of the cow when they cut into their steak?

When I eat game, I think of that animal all through the meal. I appreciate that animal's beauty and the bounty before me. I know where that animal lived, how it died; I can respect the life it led and the death it encountered. I know how the meat was cleaned, stored, prepared. And I have a whole new appreciation of the blessings of that meal before me.

IMO--if you eat meat, you are responsible for that animal's death. You may not have killed it, but if it is eaten, it was killed by someone for the diner's benefit. It seems more moral to me, cleaner somehow, when I eat game, knowing how it died, having looked it in the eye, than when I eat beef, having not seen the life or death of that animal.

We are hunters. We are not idiots. We never have shot anyone in the woods. We do accept the risks that there are those out there who are not as conscientious. We don't enjoy the hunt for the sake of the killing. We enjoy the hunt (primarily bird hunting) for the sake of working with the dogs, seeing the woods, seeing the wildlife, and appreciating the outdoors. The few birds we take each season are a blessing, and each is appreciated.

Many of our neighbors also hunt. They hunt for food, not because they enjoy the kill.

I know there are "bad" hunters out there, wasteful killers who make a bad impression on everyone. I used to think they were in the majority. But don't condemn a whole group of people for just a few bad apples. Most hunters are not like that.

It is a tragedy when anyone dies an untimely death like this hunter did--regardless of what he was doing when he died. In another week, more than a hundred thousand deer hunters will be hitting the Wisconsin woods for the gun deer season. Of those 100,000 + hunters, anywhere from 0 to 7 will die of gunshot wounds, mostly self-inflicted. More people will die on the roads in car accidents than in the woods during that time. Are there yingyang deer hunters? You betchya. Are they all yingyangs? No.

Sorry to focus in on your post LM1313, but there were just points in it that I felt needed addressing. I hope I haven't offended anyone, and I certainly am not intending to pick on you.

Different people from different backgrounds just have different takes on things.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 10:37 PM
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Perhaps my family and comunity are the only exceptions to the "brainless idiots"
No, you're not, because me, my b/f and our families are the same way.

I just think it's ridiculous to bash people for hunting because apparently they're "cruel".
Deer live in th wilderness, the wilderness is cruel.
When deer become overpopulated they STARVE to death. How do you propose we keep the deer population in check? Do most of you anti-hunting people think it's less cruel for the deer to starve to death?
There are no predators around here to keep deer in check, and even if there were would it be less cruel for a pack of wolves to bring a deer down and viciously tear it apart? Not to me.
Anyone who is a fairly decent shot can bring a deer down in one shot, the deer up until that point didn't know what was going to happen and didn't know what hit it, that's not cruel to me.

Most people eat meat, sorry, but it's true, because people are omnivores. At least someone who shoots a deer and eats it is taking responsibility for where their meat came from. As other have said, that deer lived in the wild, it wasn't pumped with hormones or mistreated up until the point it was killed.

Everyone has the right to their opinion, and I'm not debating that, but I also have the right to disagree with those opinions and state my own.
I just think it's wrong to act like someone is cruel, or deserves to be shot because they hunt. In that case I guess you should call everyone who eats meat cruel and find it ironic if they die at the butcher shop, because someone is killing the meat they're eating, they're just not doing it themselves.
That's not the definition of irony to me. Irony would be if the deer who was being hunted ended up killing the hunter. Some hunter getting killed by another person while out hunting deer isn't ironic, it's just sad. People need to learn how to use their weapons correctly and safely just like a car or any other object that's capable of killing someone in the wrong hands.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 10:55 PM
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to call hunting a "sport" is moronic. in a sport, both teams know the rules and willingly engage in the game. how on earth is hunting fair for the poor animals? do they have guns to fight back? i have hunters in my family and am totally ashamed of that that branch of the tree :sad: i don't understand hunting, i don't like eating animals, i hate the bloody slaughter and don't see the point of the whole thing. i mean, go shoot darts or something! leave the poor animals alone
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Old November 12th, 2006, 11:24 PM
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to call hunting a "sport" is moronic. in a sport, both teams know the rules and willingly engage in the game. how on earth is hunting fair for the poor animals? do they have guns to fight back? i have hunters in my family and am totally ashamed of that that branch of the tree :sad: i don't understand hunting, i don't like eating animals, i hate the bloody slaughter and don't see the point of the whole thing. i mean, go shoot darts or something! leave the poor animals alone
Hunting is hard to understand for a lot of people. I didn't understand it for a long time. However, I don't consider it "sport", or a "game". It is life and death. It has been so for a very long time. Don't ever think, however, that the wildlife does not "understand" the game. Not only humans hunt. Animals face the danger of predators every living moment. They do understand the hunt and react accordingly. You do not go out in the woods and take for the asking.

I do comprehend both sides of the issue. City-born and -raised, I was anti-hunting until my college years, when I began working behind hunting dogs with my husband-to-be. The joys of working with your dogs in beautiful environs, of finding game, and watching them work it... Those are the main motivations of the hunt. Not the killing. And although I enjoy eating game, it is not the be-all and end-all of the hunt.

I know it seems contradictory to love and respect the animals, and then go out and try to kill one, but when you do so, you appreciate the ramifications of what it is you're doing. It's not as easy to appreciate the sacrifice of the cows or the lambs or the calves--their deaths come far away and out of sight. They do not understand what it is to be hunted. Death comes to them at the hands of creatures they have been raised to trust. They don't have a chance to escape it. This, too, is not sport, but life and death at its saddest, IMO. How is the stockyard fair to the beef cattle? How is the slaughter of poultry fair to the chickens?

It is a matter of perspective. But I do understand your point of view. I value your input in this forum and I hope my point of view does not put me on your black list
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Old November 12th, 2006, 11:38 PM
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I value your input in this forum and I hope my point of view does not put me on your black list
of course not

just expressing opinions, and not too happy with the state of the world in general but what can i do? i just try to be at peace with everything the best i can... and that includes having intelligent conversations with smart people
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Old November 12th, 2006, 11:42 PM
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*backs slowly out of the room*
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Old November 12th, 2006, 11:46 PM
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LOL, Prin!
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Old November 13th, 2006, 12:28 AM
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I don't want to get into this either but most of you know what side of the fence I'm on. I think most city people are against hunting. Have any of you bought venison, bison or buffalo in the supermarket?
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Old November 13th, 2006, 12:37 AM
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Or in your dog food?
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Old November 13th, 2006, 01:40 AM
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That was going to be my next question.
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Old November 13th, 2006, 01:49 AM
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Ok, I'll jump in (mainly because I suck at the arcade tonight lol).

I'm a hypocrite when it comes to meat. I do eat crap meat. Not often, but I do. And it's bad and the animals' quality of life is bad, so it's good that they're put out of their misery, but then another takes its place. I wanted to get my meat from a family farm, but it was $300 for a half a cow, and being a student, I never had a wad that big handy.

But my man's family hunts and I don't approve. When you live in the city, I just don't think you have to hunt. And on top of that, I don't think it's a fair fight. If you were to run after them with a spear (or a fork- for dramatic effect), and you actually manage to kill one, it would probably be the weakest one. When you're sitting still in the bush for hours with your long range shot gun and shoot whoever is there first (ok, so there are laws about females and stuff, but still) without the animal even being aware that you're there or being given a chance to outrun you, I just don't think that's a fair fight.

Hey, I already said I was a hypocrite.

Last edited by Prin; November 13th, 2006 at 02:09 AM. Reason: contractions.. you know.
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Old November 13th, 2006, 02:10 AM
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There are also hunting regulations which limit what and when you are allowed to hunt. Also, the farmers here complain about the elk and deer destroying their land and are always wanting the regulations loosened.
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Old November 13th, 2006, 05:47 AM
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Hunter killed

Personally I don't think I could kill an animal but I do indulge in a the occasional steak. I also eat chicken, pork and wear suede and leather products. I know the way these animals are slaughtered and believe me the way a deer is killed is far less traumatic. Most don't know what hit them and die instantly. At least a deer has a chance of getting away from a hunter. The same thing can't be said about a cow.
With no natural predators the deer populations are growing yearly. Without a hunt they would continue to grow and as was mentioned starve to death. They also can carry disease and are often hit by cars as they wander into the streets at night.
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