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Old November 10th, 2006, 05:07 PM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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Question about Tripe and Bones

We feed Barkley green lamb tripe on a very regular basis along with his rmb's and usually when we buy it it is sort of a greenish-gray colour, but this package we just bought is a dark green colour (same company, same product) and I was just wondering if this was normal and that colour ranges are to be expected or if I got a bad batch (if that is even possible?).

Another question...currently we are buying a meat and ground up bone mixture from Healthy Paws which come in 5lb blocks and I wanted to know that since the mixture contains bones, am I giving Barkley too much bone if I give him a recreational bone to gnaw on in addition to the meat/bone mixture? If I plan on giving him a bone on a particular day, should I be feeding him JUST meat at mealtime, no bones?
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Old November 10th, 2006, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
We feed Barkley green lamb tripe on a very regular basis along with his rmb's and usually when we buy it it is sort of a greenish-gray colour, but this package we just bought is a dark green colour (same company, same product) and I was just wondering if this was normal and that colour ranges are to be expected or if I got a bad batch (if that is even possible?).
all i know is the green tripe we get from Urban Carnivore is always a dark green color... but it's not lamb tripe, so i couldn't say if the variation in color is normal. if i were you, to be sure, i would call the company and find out

Quote:
Another question...currently we are buying a meat and ground up bone mixture from Healthy Paws which come in 5lb blocks and I wanted to know that since the mixture contains bones, am I giving Barkley too much bone if I give him a recreational bone to gnaw on in addition to the meat/bone mixture? If I plan on giving him a bone on a particular day, should I be feeding him JUST meat at mealtime, no bones?
recreational bones are meant for fun, they shouldn't be consumed (or only in small bits and pieces, not enough bone should be eaten to form part of the diet). Your boy's poops are a good guide: if they are pale and crumbly, very dry, then you are feeding too much bone. if the poops are soft and quite dark, you are feeding too much meat

yay, poop talk! LOL
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Old November 10th, 2006, 08:38 PM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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Thanks TD
Sometimes Barkley's poops are on the dry/crumbly side. We give him knuckle bones as recreational bones once a week and he loves them. Although he doesn't really consume the knucklebone as you said, he definitely likes to scrape his teeth against the bone, so I wasn't sure if the small amount that he does consume would be too much when added with the bone content in his meals. As I'm sure you know, Healthy Paws is prepackaged frozen raw that is sold in the pet stores and they say that the packages of meat are balanced in terms of meat:bone ratio, but his poops are sometimes crumbly. Do you think I should start buying ground chicken etc at the supermarket to add to the Healthy Paws in order to increase the meat content?

I actually forgot to ask one other question...how many times a week is it okay to give him a raw egg? He'll be 7 months old on Monday and is still growing. He is a little on the skinny side, so we aren't too worried about over feeding at this point. Is 3-4 times a week okay to give him a raw egg (with shell) or is that too often?
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Old November 10th, 2006, 09:03 PM
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As I'm sure you know, Healthy Paws is prepackaged frozen raw that is sold in the pet stores and they say that the packages of meat are balanced in terms of meat:bone ratio, but his poops are sometimes crumbly. Do you think I should start buying ground chicken etc at the supermarket to add to the Healthy Paws in order to increase the meat content?
well, some raw-feeders *want* that hard crumbly white poop... but IMO it's not super-healthy. if you were a pet-food manufacturer and could bring your costs down - and therefore your profits up - by using more of the cheap ingredients (bones) than the expensive stuff (meat)... while still staying in the "norm" of what is considered balanced... you know? so yes, i would definitely add some meat to the packaged raw. even better... don't buy any packaged raw at all. think of re-investing that money into whole, balanced meals: whole turkeys and chickens cut into meal-sized portions, whole fish, meat roasts (some bone, smothered in meat), canned fish, whole eggs, green tripe, etc. i think one of the reasons your boy may still be thin is because he's getting too much bone (not many calories in bone!)

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I actually forgot to ask one other question...how many times a week is it okay to give him a raw egg? He'll be 7 months old on Monday and is still growing. He is a little on the skinny side, so we aren't too worried about over feeding at this point. Is 3-4 times a week okay to give him a raw egg (with shell) or is that too often?
you can feed as many eggs as your boy wants to eat and can tolerate tummy-wise! mine eat about 3 to 4 per week, each, but that's only because i sometimes forget to add it to their mushy meals i also split a small jar of baby-food veggies between the two of them a few times per week to cover the "greens", LOL!

does your boy like cream-cheese or peanut-butter bagels? that packs a caloric punch!
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Old November 10th, 2006, 09:43 PM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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You really may be on to something there TD It has crossed my mind too that the food manufacturer uses more bone than necessary to bring down costs. So, you are suggesting that I just buy a whole bird and cut it up into pieces for each meal? For a growing 7 month old pup, how big should one meal be? For example, if I have a whole chicken, how much of it would constitute one meal? a quarter, half, etc.?
It turns out that Barkley can't tolerate dairy, so the cream cheese bagels are out unfortunately :sad: but I could definitely try the peanut butter Actually, in our household we don't have peanut butter. We have all natural, organic almond butter. Would that be okay too or are almonds bad for them?
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Old November 10th, 2006, 09:55 PM
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[QUOTE]So, you are suggesting that I just buy a whole bird and cut it up into pieces for each meal? For a growing 7 month old pup, how big should one meal be? For example, if I have a whole chicken, how much of it would constitute one meal? a quarter, half, etc.[QUOTE]

totally! it's what the "prey-model" diet is based on just get a cheap simple kitchen scale and weigh the pieces before feeding them (hard to eyeball it at first!), puppies should get between 2 to 3% of their anticipated adult weight in raw food per day, divided into 2 meals. now you may want to cut off the big chunks of loose chicken skin and discard - yes it's calories but too much fat can cause runny stools - but keep enough on to get a good fat balance. remember the ratios (not firm numbers but a good guideline): 60% meat, 20% bone, 10% organ meats, the rest others such as eggs, fish, etc

Quote:
It turns out that Barkley can't tolerate dairy, so the cream cheese bagels are out unfortunately but I could definitely try the peanut butter Actually, in our household we don't have peanut butter. We have all natural, organic almond butter. Would that be okay too or are almonds bad for them?
almonds are safe for dogs (many holistic dog treats contain almonds) but macadamia nuts are toxic. you can get a small jar of natural peanut-butter (no added sugar) for your boy, it's also ok to drizzle a little bit of molasses on there too for an added, occasional treat!
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Old November 10th, 2006, 10:06 PM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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Thank you soooo much TD I swear, I don't know what I would do without your help. This whole raw thing is still so new and I feel like such a raw-dummy sometimes We want to make sure we get it right in terms of balance and correct proportions so that he is as healthy as can be and lives a long, happy, tail wagging, butt sniffing kind of life
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Old November 10th, 2006, 10:11 PM
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LOL! you would find plenty of knowledgable people to guide you... i'm still learning stuff all the time too!
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Old November 11th, 2006, 12:18 PM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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On the subject of buying whole birds, etc....
You know TD, I really found your carcass-grinding pictorial inspiring...hubby and I even looked up the link you provided to your grinding machine and we looked into buying a chest freezer (space is limited, but like you said, where there's a will, there's a way ). However, I read one of your posts wherein you said that you do the whole grinding thing because one of your dogs won't eat raw any other way....our Barkley will gladly eat a carcass intact, so do you think we should forget the whole grinding project and just stick with buying whole birds, fish, etc. and just portion off each meal from that without grinding anything? If the answer is yes, I'm going to :love: you because you just made our lives soooo much easier
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Old November 11th, 2006, 02:58 PM
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the ideal raw diet is that dogs eat as they would in the wild... and there are no food grinders in the forest, LOL so yes, feeding intact and whole pieces is the best way to go... check out http://rawfed.com/myths/ground.html for more info

the ideal thing with making raw mixes (for us) is that we can add raw organ meats (which neither dog will touch with a 10 foot pole!), raw fish, blend in some raw eggs, baby food, etc - and dump it down the dog's throat and voila, we are sure that the daily quota for perfect nutrition has been eaten.

BUT you could do the same with a few "mush meals" per week (ground raw meat of any kind + mix in "stuff") since your boy eats enough bones on his own to balance things out If dakotah was food-motivated (he never was) and liked to eat enough food every day to sustain his 120 lbs frame, then we would not grind anything and save ourselves 3 hours every 3 weeks or so

I say don't grind anything, keep feeding whole meaty pieces with proper bone ratio, vary the protein sources and consider adding treats such as steamed veggies if your boy likes them, feed the occasional "mushy meal" with goodies mixed in (pasta is always a hit here!), like baked sweet potatoes, raw eggs, canned fish, don't forget the organ meats, anything you see fit to feed, in fact!

i hope this is encouraging!
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Old November 11th, 2006, 03:54 PM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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Quote:
the ideal raw diet is that dogs eat as they would in the wild... and there are no food grinders in the forest, LOL
I thought that's what the chipmunks were there for

Quote:
I say don't grind anything, keep feeding whole meaty pieces with proper bone ratio, vary the protein sources and consider adding treats such as steamed veggies if your boy likes them, feed the occasional "mushy meal" with goodies mixed in (pasta is always a hit here!), like baked sweet potatoes, raw eggs, canned fish, don't forget the organ meats, anything you see fit to feed, in fact!
Thanks TD. We'll give it a try. I went out and bought some chicken drumsticks that were on sale at the supermarket, so I will try giving Barkley those for dinner tonight. He's never had them before, but he crunches up his chicken necks and backs quite well, so I'm not too worried.

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i hope this is encouraging! :highfive
Your posts are ALWAYS encouraging TD!!!!!
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Last edited by barkley21; November 11th, 2006 at 03:58 PM.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 12:51 AM
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barkely21 ~ where do you get your lamb tripe in Toronto? And fyi the variation in colour is directed by the amount of pre- and semi-digested food present at time of "harvest".
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Old November 12th, 2006, 11:08 AM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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We get our green lamb tripe from Healthy Paws. There are quite a few pet stores in Toronto that carry Healthy Paws but the one we buy it at doesn't always carry it as part of their regular Healthy Paws stock, so we usually give the store a call and they order it for us. What part of Toronto are you in? I could tell you where the closest one is to you if you'd like? I used to buy it at Global Pet Foods, but have recently switched stores because we got some really bad customer service there and are boycotting Global Pet Foods
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Old November 12th, 2006, 02:01 PM
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Thanks Barkley21. I'm sorry to hear you've had a bad experience with Global. I buy my Timberwolf at Global-Ryan's in the Beaches, they carry the Healthy Paws beef tripe but not the lamb ~ though I'm sure they could now that I know who makes it. I live just a little north of Yonge and Bloor. We sometimes walk to The Menagerie on Parliament, the Global @ Dupont and Davenport or the new Pet Value on Yonge @ St. Clair. I don't drive so I tende to shop close by or someplace which is easily TTC'able.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 02:36 PM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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That's so funny because at the stores close to us (College and Ossington), they don't carry the beef tripe...only the lamb tripe. I don't think all Global Pet Foods are bad by any means, it's just that the one closest to us has really shabby customer service. Back when we were feeding Barkley kibble, we were trying to find one that he would do well on because he was having such problems with loose stools, etc. We came across the Global Pet Foods near us and went to buy a small bag of DVP Duck and Potato to try and see how he did on it. The woman there upselled us to the biggest bag they had (almost $70) because she reassured us that they take back any food if the dog has problems with it and her exact words were "even if there's only one kibble left in the bag". Well, we were about half way through the bag when Barkley developed a urinary tract infection (vet said it was food related) and his stools were still loose. Needless to say, we brought the remaining food back to the store and the owner would not take the bag back and said "it's half empty, we can't take that back!" They wouldn't even credit it towards the purchase of another type of dog food! They treated us like we were pulling some sort of doggy food scam when we were really just two concerned parents who couldn't find a decent food for their puppy. They totally took advantage of our desperate situation. It's their loss though because we spend a lot of money on Barkley's raw diet and all the extras (toys, treats, poopy bags, etc) and it's all going to Hellmutt's on Queen Street now. The girls there are FABULOUS!

By the way, is all tripe created equal? Does it make a difference if it's lamb or beef? Is one more nutritious than the other?
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Old November 12th, 2006, 03:27 PM
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Thanks for the info! Helmutt's was very supportive of the Pitbull Co-op fundraiser so I will definitely head down there. One of my gang can't handle beef in any shape or form which is why we've been sticking to the canned lamb tripe since his arrival. In terms of nutritional breakdown there won't be a great deal of difference. The only one I can think of is that beef carries more selenium but that's really a neglible difference. The only other thing is that lamb of course has had less time to absorb toxins from the environment into it's tissue. Most people prefer beef over lamb because of cost ~ beef is definitely less expensive but in our house soupy-poopy trumps bucks.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 05:47 PM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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That's funny...Barkley can't handle beef either. He does great on chicken, turkey, and fish in general, but I'm glad I found the lamb tripe as opposed to the beef. Is the beef tripe you buy made by Healthy Paws as well? I didn't even know they carried it in beef. Their website unfortunately doesn't list anything other than the meat formulas, no extras like tripe, treats, etc. I should mention that the bison and turkey jerky treats they make are fabulous if you haven't tried them already. Barkley loves them They only have one ingredient ie. bison or beef or turkey...no additives or preservatives.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 07:51 PM
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No the beef tripe we used to buy was "paws-itively raw". We've been buying Trippet canned lamb for about six months or so. Chicken is a no-no here regrettably and turkey is a once or twice a year event. Sadly we've had to switch from a raw/ home-cooked diet to kibble. Though that's not to say we won't go back in time.
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Old November 12th, 2006, 08:13 PM
barkley21 barkley21 is offline
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I've heard about the Trippet canned tripe. It's definitely a handy thing to have around as I hear sometimes the fresh stuff is hard to come by. Heaven knows that if we forget to call our order in, we're stuck without it.
Here's hoping you can switch to raw again in the near future
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