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  #1  
Old October 13th, 2006, 02:25 PM
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Unhappy Very sad: tortured dog

http://tinyurl.com/u2npg

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Dog's torture outrages town
Calls flood in to RCMP
Dan Singleton, For The Calgary Herald; with files from Jason van Rassel, Calgary Herald.
Published: Friday, October 13, 2006

A mayor's tears summed up her town's shock and outrage over the torture of a dog that was apparently dragged behind a moving vehicle.

"I was in tears when I heard the details of the case," Didsbury Mayor Dorothy Moore said Thursday.

"People are wanting justice, and don't know if they are going to see it or not."

Passersby found the dog, a female collie-Lab cross, lying injured in the street early Sunday.

The dog's legs were bound together with duct tape and there was a tow rope around its neck and a bag covering its head. Several of the dog's bones were broken and it was bleeding profusely.

The injuries were so severe, a veterinarian called to the scene euthanized the dog on the spot.

The case sickened even veteran police investigators, and the Didsbury RCMP detachment fielded dozens of calls from people expressing "outrage at the case," said Sgt. Kevin O'Dwyer.

Likewise, Moore said several residents have approached her with concerns, and her office issued a written statement Thursday afternoon.

"The Town of Didsbury council and administration are shocked and distressed by this unbelievable event in our friendly and hospitable town. This is definitely the antithesis of the spirit of our community," it read.

Police identified two suspects after following a trail of blood from where the dog was found.

Daniel Charles Haskett, 19, has been charged under the Criminal Code with injuring/endangering an animal and causing unnecessary suffering to an animal. He is also charged with obstructing a police investigation.

Investigators said the dog belonged to the Haskett family. A man who answered the door at the Haskett home Thursday declined comment.

A 17-year-old male, whose identity is protected by the Youth Criminal Justice Act, is also charged with injuring/endangering an animal and causing unnecessary suffering to an animal.

For adult offenders, each animal cruelty charge carries a maximum penalty of a $2,000 fine and/or six months in jail.

The two suspects are scheduled to appear in Didsbury provincial court Nov. 6.
© The Calgary Herald 2006
As a result of this, I'm stepping up my fight for Guardianship. I'm certain that the new bill that is scheduled to go to the House of Commons either won't make it, or won't be enough. We *must* fight for the rights of our pets, and do something to protect them.
More information on the Guardianship campaign here: http://www.guardiancampaign.com/

Melissa

Last edited by dogmelissa; October 13th, 2006 at 03:19 PM. Reason: To fix bad copy & shorten URL
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  #2  
Old October 13th, 2006, 02:34 PM
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sick! sick human turds!!

and the "max" penalties are paltry and what happens to "youth" crimes??!! a slap on the wrist?

man... makes one want to vote for the return of public hangings
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Old October 13th, 2006, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by technodoll
sick! sick human turds!!

and the "max" penalties are paltry and what happens to "youth" crimes??!! a slap on the wrist?

man... makes one want to vote for the return of public hangings
I totally agree. My stomach turned the second I heard about it, and then hearing more details... ugh. And Didsbury is close. A girl I work with who is almost as adamant about animals as I am said that maybe we should drive up there the day they go to court, to which I responded that probably no one would like to see me do to those kids what they deserve... to have done to them what they did to that dog. :sad:

I have no idea what they'll do to the "kid", I guess it might depend on who they decide was "in charge" and/or driving the vehicle. Personally, I think both of them should have their driver's license revoked (for a few years at least!), and be forced to spend time *helping* injured, abused, & abandoned animals. Banning people from having pets means nothing so long as you can answer an ad in the paper from a breeder or walk into a pet store and buy an animal. I don't even know if the Humane Society is allowed to do criminal checks on people (they should be if they're not!). It's sick and wrong.

Melissa
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Old October 13th, 2006, 03:46 PM
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OMG,poor,poor little dog,totally defenseless against these sadistic creeps.
If I had my way,they would face life in jail..
I am hoping at least the name of the adult was in the paper,hopefully he'll suffer in some way,from peoples anger...but still the horrendous pain this dog must have suffered:sad: it just makes you crazy to even think about.
poor little dog:sad:
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Old October 13th, 2006, 04:44 PM
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Poor poor dog. I think that even before they go to court they should have their pictures posted all over the place. And if this happened near me I would go to the court for the trial with as many people as possible. It is time to quite being so placid and start making a big stink for big changes to all abusers.
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  #6  
Old October 13th, 2006, 06:33 PM
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That is so sick :sad: I would looove to drag THEM behind my car The 17 yr old will probably get a slap on the wrist.Criminals have more rights than animals And I just find out today that some people are sooo unaware about these things.I was telling a coworker about Clara (an abused dog up for adoption) and she said ; OMG ,some people abuse animals,is this true? And then she ask me if she was stupid or naive.I told her she had way too much faith in humain kind :sad:
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Old October 13th, 2006, 11:41 PM
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Frenchy, I totally hear you. I'm totally shocked that people are constantly surprised at the depths to which humans can sink, especially when it comes to animals. I also get very frustrated when people choose their convienience or their furniture over an animal's nature-given "tools" and have their cats declawed without considering what that does to the cat. It's very sad to me how so many people go through the world with blinders on, whether it's about animals, politics, war, health care, etc etc.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who wants to drag these kids behind my car. But at the very least, they should be forced to spend some time *helping* animals. A fine won't make any difference, because their parents will just have to pay it, and the parents aren't the ones who did anything wrong (other than maybe not seeing signs of something like this happening).

To everyone who has pets in their life, or see animals on a regular basis who aren't living in your homes; please give each of them an extra hug &/or kiss in an attempt to make up for all the harm that other humans have done to their species.

(we should have a smiley of dogs hugging!)

little doggie (they should have published the dog's name so we could send her our love directly)
Melissa

PS: on an unrelated topic... what happens when the dog's kid dies? Will she attack him and chase him all the way to hell? She, of course, is safely across the rainbow bridge.
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Old October 14th, 2006, 12:39 AM
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Another reason why the youth offender act should be changed. It only protects the guilty and I sure as hell would like to know if a sick twisted piece of human garbage was living next door to me.
Race to the bridge baby.....
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Old October 14th, 2006, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmelissa
I'm glad I'm not the only one who wants to drag these kids behind my car.
We would do more damage with 2 cars good idea.
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Old October 14th, 2006, 02:32 AM
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This is soooo sad......a poor defenseless dog. :sad:

The maximum sentence is hardly enough and he won't even get near that. And, the under-age kid will get even less.

The SPCA has been trying for a long time to get the penalties for animal abuse changed. We all know that Mr. Harper is an animal lover. One of the few good things about him IMO.

I've said this before....but if anyone (because I'm not any good at organizing) wants to start a lobbying campaign to get the laws changed while Mr. Harper is still our PM, I'll do whatever I can to help.
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Old October 14th, 2006, 01:17 PM
SarahLynn123 SarahLynn123 is offline
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There were threats sent to the family for the kid and the guy who sent them was arrested and is up for a more serious charge then the damn kid.

Insane.
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  #12  
Old October 14th, 2006, 02:12 PM
Paula69 Paula69 is offline
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Unhappy Time for change!

Hi everyone, ya the story made me sick, poor dog! I would really like to drag those guys behind a car for a few miles and see how long they live....I'd B sure to hit everything I could. According to the News, the max penalty is $2,000 for them, disgusting, what's that gonna do? A dog going through that is worth about $2 million (or priceless), and the one who threatened him, gets a serious fine and could get actual jail time. The justice system is so screwed up!So, I'm working on a way to try and improve animal welfare that might work, got a few more kinks to iron out, I'll B advertising ideas very soon, in a week? hopefully, I need everyone to let me know what you think and will need alot of help, so please watch for it in the next week or two, it's a simple solution involving the efforts of all, so gonna need some people power, we gotta do something though, I'm tired of poeple telling me there's nothing we can do.there is. We'll have to find a way also to toughen these laws also, that was probably someone's kid(dog), wonder who the owners are, I haven't heard, hope it wasn't that kid, and maybe the owners can do something more serious!
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Old October 15th, 2006, 08:57 PM
Tammygabe Tammygabe is offline
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Angry Very sad indeed

It broke my heart when I heard this.
I was so disgusted to hear the pure evilness of this act. These 2 degenerates need to be made accountable for their actions.
What is paying a fine or not allowing them to own animals going to do to them?
I think that it is time that the government puts their dam coffee down & takes a good long look at where this country is going. Young affender act is a bunch if BS..If they can do the crime.....Why should they be protected!!!!
Is that justice for their crime?
I also think that the parent of the so called youth is also to blame . They have raised this cold hearted monster. Can they not see how their kid behaves. What it is ok because it is just an animal?
Please tell me who is the animal?
It sure was not the poor dog. Thank goodness for the " Rainbow Bridge"
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Old October 15th, 2006, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paula69
... that was probably someone's kid(dog), wonder who the owners are, I haven't heard, hope it wasn't that kid, and maybe the owners can do something more serious!
The dog was the Haskett's "family dog", Haskett was the 19 year old charged.

Dogmelissa posted this link for information on the Guardianship campaign: http://www.guardiancampaign.com
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Old October 15th, 2006, 10:30 PM
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Shaykeija Shaykeija is offline
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There are only 2 Haskett's listed in Calagary. I sent them both a letter telling that piece of crap what I thought aabout him. I googled them. @ssholes. I just sent a letter to Daniel Charles Haskett in care of both addresses. I hope he burns in hell.
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Old October 15th, 2006, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogmelissa
http://tinyurl.com/u2npg



As a result of this, I'm stepping up my fight for Guardianship. I'm certain that the new bill that is scheduled to go to the House of Commons either won't make it, or won't be enough. We *must* fight for the rights of our pets, and do something to protect them.
More information on the Guardianship campaign here: http://www.guardiancampaign.com/

Melissa
I really don't want to start a fight or anything - but do you really think that someone who is twisted enough to do something like this would really think twice just because he was the dog's "guardian" instead of it's owner?

How about working on passing some serious animal cruelty laws instead of wasting time on how we refer to ourselves in comparison to our animal companions? I mean - the word "parent" certainly doesn't stop people from abusing or killing their own flesh and blood, why should it change the way these losers look at the family dog?
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Old October 15th, 2006, 11:21 PM
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LavenderRott LavenderRott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaykeija
There are only 2 Haskett's listed in Calagary. I sent them both a letter telling that piece of crap what I thought aabout him. I googled them. @ssholes. I just sent a letter to Daniel Charles Haskett in care of both addresses. I hope he burns in hell.
I certainly hope that Daniel Charles Haskett doesn't have an unlisted number. I think that I would be really upset if my mailbox was suddenly filled with hate mail for someone I had never met or no relation too.
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Old October 16th, 2006, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LavenderRott
I really don't want to start a fight or anything - but do you really think that someone who is twisted enough to do something like this would really think twice just because he was the dog's "guardian" instead of it's owner?

How about working on passing some serious animal cruelty laws instead of wasting time on how we refer to ourselves in comparison to our animal companions? I mean - the word "parent" certainly doesn't stop people from abusing or killing their own flesh and blood, why should it change the way these losers look at the family dog?

Excellent post.
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Old October 16th, 2006, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaykeija
There are only 2 Haskett's listed in Calagary. I sent them both a letter telling that piece of crap what I thought aabout him. I googled them. @ssholes. I just sent a letter to Daniel Charles Haskett in care of both addresses. I hope he burns in hell.
The Haskett family is from Didsbury, not Calgary. You have just done something for which you can be charged. Please see SarahLynn123's post about the person charged with uttering threats.

For LavenderRott & rainbow:
While I agree with you that some tougher laws are needed, I honestly don't believe that they are going to happen at the federal level anytime soon. The proposed laws have been repeatedely pushed back, made softer and will likely make no effect once they are implemented, which could be years. My goal with the Guardianship campaign is to start locally. If we can get local laws changed first, then move to provincial, then we'll have a better fight federally.
And no, the term "parent" doesn't stop a lot of people killing their kids, but I think you'd agree that most people don't just kill their kids, it's the rare exception who does. All I'm trying to do is get people to protect animals the way children are protected. You might not agree, but that's my approach.

Melissa
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Old October 16th, 2006, 10:33 PM
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I did not utter any threats of any kind. I sent 2 cards with the one question of WHY?. If the cards are sent to the wrong address they can do a return to sender as I did use my address. Do not assume I did anything illegal.
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Old October 17th, 2006, 09:24 AM
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This story is really disturbing. I hope people who live close can attend their hearing - if only to give them a disgusting look, or to see what future serial f...'s look like? I don't understand how after what has been proven time and again the distinction between animal abusers and human abusers, the courts don't demand serious intervention & therapy (who otherwise could do such evil things anyway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LavenderRott
I really don't want to start a fight or anything - but do you really think that someone who is twisted enough to do something like this would really think twice just because he was the dog's "guardian" instead of it's owner?
How about working on passing some serious animal cruelty laws instead of wasting time on how we refer to ourselves in comparison to our animal companions?
I don't want to start a fight or anything either - but I doubt DogMellisa meant trying to change these twisted evil turds way of thinking rather try and educate the general public's views - IDA "In Defense of Animals" (The guardian campaign) starting with the word itself:

Their page "What a difference a word makes" (Animal Guardians):

- recognize animals as individuals, not objects
- recognize changing public attitudes toward animals

he/she (as guardians - feelings, rights, and needs) instead of owner (it)

I dont see it as wasting time, I think it's great - no ?

like on this page: 12 things you can do to help the animals http://www.guardiancampaign.com/Take...gsyoucando.htm
And, IMO keeping animals off your plate being the # 1. The government will never make changes in the animal cruelty law - linked directly towards slaugherhouses. As :sad: as it is - it's true. Until people stop supporting them - the only thing is educating and trying to prove why we see dogs and cats differently than farmed animals. After all cruelty is cruelty

I just opened an email from Animatch and was pleasantly surprised at their on-line adoption form that read: "PROSPECTIVE GUARDIAN QUESTIONAIRE"
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Old October 17th, 2006, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaykeija
I did not utter any threats of any kind. I sent 2 cards with the one question of WHY?. If the cards are sent to the wrong address they can do a return to sender as I did use my address. Do not assume I did anything illegal.
Your first post on this topic did not sound like you did anything legal. If you told an @sshole what you thought of them, at the very least, it could be considered assault. Don't forget that what *you* may see as an innocent protest or comment on something could be seen by a police officer as verbal assault or uttering threats.

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/...24496-sun.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Girls
I just opened an email from Animatch and was pleasantly surprised at their on-line adoption form that read: "PROSPECTIVE GUARDIAN QUESTIONAIRE"
There are getting to be more and more places (both online and off) that use the word Guardian in their forms and literature. I'm just as comfortable with "pet parent" on adoption forms, but Guardian to me means not just "companion animals" but also puts the burden of responsibility on anyone who takes care of any animal, be that in a fish farm, a cattle feed lot, or a kitty curled up in a cozy warm house.

While I do agree that *all* animals deserve to be treated with respect and dignity, and treated as individuals rather than objects, I also can't deny the fact that I am a meat-eater. I just hope that the laws will eventually change so that animals destined for food (human or pet) are treated with dignity and respect, and any person who fails to do so can be punished.

I frankly don't understand why cruelty to animals in Alberta (each province has it's own laws, and all are harsher than the Canadian federal law) nets a maximum of $20,000 fine, supposedly being unable to own (there's that word again!!!) an animal for X number of years, but does not include any jail time, or any sort of rehabilitation. Frankly, I think if every single person who hurt an animal intentionally was forced to do "community service" with a rescue organization (Humane Society, specific dog or cat breed rescue or something like retired horse-racing), as well as undergoing some serious therapy, that there might be fewer of them who turn into offenders against humans. But again, trying to change the federal laws first? I doubt it. I'm starting a fight in my municipality to create bylaws increasing fines, including jail time, community service, etc for those types of people in town, but I know it'll be a fight. I honestly don't believe that any politician will see this as a priority, which is really :sad:

Anyhow... if anyone has suggestions, feel free! I think that despite our differences here, and our different approaches, the ultimate goal of protection of animals is the same.

Melissa
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Last edited by dogmelissa; October 17th, 2006 at 12:11 PM.
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Old October 20th, 2006, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
While I do agree that *all* animals deserve to be treated with respect and dignity, and treated as individuals rather than objects, I also can't deny the fact that I am a meat-eater. I just hope that the laws will eventually change so that animals destined for food (human or pet) are treated with dignity and respect, and any person who fails to do so can be punished.
That's the thing - we do know their not treated with respect or dignity and were also aware there isn't one single law that protects animals from the horror and pain their forced to endure so I don't know what else we can do other then not eat them? The food industry kills more animals than laboratories, fur farms, trappers, circuses and hunters combined

Quote:
I'm starting a fight in my municipality to create bylaws increasing fines, including jail time, community service, etc for those types of people in town, but I know it'll be a fight. I honestly don't believe that any politician will see this as a priority, which is really :sad:
Good for you, please let us know if we can help in some way.

Quote:
I think that despite our differences here, and our different approaches, the ultimate goal of protection of animals is the same.
I agree, we can't stop all suffering but that doesn't mean we shouldn't stop any.
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Last edited by Golden Girls; October 21st, 2006 at 12:40 AM. Reason: Spellilng
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  #24  
Old October 27th, 2006, 05:34 PM
shelbyindigio shelbyindigio is offline
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An Email from Daniel Charles Haskett

what i have read is very sad, I am glad the poor dog is no longer in pain.
with all stories it is important to know, or have information from both sides.
I found this link, see below, and copied an email from the youth telling what happened. I am not sure what is the truth, and I hope the justice system will do what it suppose to do and give these youth a fair and justified judgement. REad below if you like to know the accounts of what happened according to Daniel Haskett.

http://doctortongue.com/index.php/ar...is-a-****head/
Confessional-

For all you that want to know the “story” of what was confessed here it is- his confession and his email adress is all here- enjoy.This is a real email Charles Hasket sent me, and I thought I would share it with everyone so that you could make your own decisions about wether he’s lieing or telling the truth- either way, he confessed to killing this poor dog.
And I used his name and his email address because I don’t want anymore to do with this- thankyou.
Aila

- please spread this around the best you can- it’s a real email I recieved, and it’s up to you wether or not you would like to believe it

From: “Charles Haskett”
To: **********************
Subject: RE: Big and Strong X3
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 01:13:16 -0600

well to be honest… ive been charged with Animal Cruelty, both Tim Laurin and I, and its all over the news.

I know you are an animal lover, like I am, and I know that you aren’t quick to judge. Truth be told… Tim ran over my dog, and we tried to put her down… it was terrible and horrifying to say the least. She was in a great deal of pain and it was something I could not stomach. I didnt think that anyone would believe it was an accident, because of the way me and Tim have often joked about killing animals and stuff…

So yea… we tried to suffocate her… and she didnt feel much pain, because her … well her skull had been crushed… she was flailing and yelping and twitching… and it wasnt easy to do… but we had to restrain her, so we taped her legs and her snout…. so that she couldnt struggle… after about 10 minutes, i could bear it no longer, and told tim i couldnt deal with it. I told him I had to do something, i had to call someone… but we decided to just take her out into the country and make it look like she had been run over… I went inside and went to bed…

However, Tim didnt think that my dog was dead… so he hit once on the head with a shovel… just to be certain… then he carried her 3 blocks, with a toe rope around her head, so that he wouldnt get blood on himself… he then went and got his car and loaded her into it… but not after he had gone 50 feet, she fell from the car… in his haste to get her in the car, he hadnt shut the door all the way. She fell out and went under the tire again… when tim came back around the block, someone had pulled over and was on the phone. Tim panicked and went home scared…

We were trying to end her suffering and now the Media is making it sound like we dragged her with that tow rope around Didsbury… Im going through alot of stuff right now… and its not easy. There have already been threats on my life and the like, my brother cant go to school for a while and yea… its bad. But i promse we didnt do what they said, and that it was an accident, and that we were trying to end her pain, not enhance or increase it.

I pray that you belive me, Yours Truly Charles.

P.S. I would be happy to help you and your mom out but… under the present circumstances i cannot, and Im sure she would not want my help… as many people in Didsbury have labled me a dog killer and a sick psychopath. Sorry

Left by gniz on October 25th, 2006

Last edited by White Wolf; October 27th, 2006 at 05:53 PM. Reason: no email addresses as per rules.
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  #25  
Old October 27th, 2006, 06:17 PM
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This is sick,I don't even know what to say. Even if this is the truth (wich I don't believe) there is no excuse.
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Old October 27th, 2006, 06:20 PM
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I agree. Even if it's the truth, it still sounds horrible, abusive and disgusting..
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  #27  
Old October 28th, 2006, 02:34 PM
Paula69 Paula69 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Medicine Hat, AB
Posts: 59
I don't know

Still doesn't sound right to me, there's no excuse, they could have found another way to deal w/ it, I would have called 911 or a vet, I wouldn't have kept going that's for sure. Sorry man, still don't think it's right. And you should get at least some jail time to think about how you'll handle it differently next time, and before you joke more about it, at least a $20,000 fine, and counselling.
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  #28  
Old October 29th, 2006, 04:39 PM
Remcha Remcha is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 2
Angry Sick

This is sick and I think people like this should be given the same tourture that they imposed on these helpless animals. If they can only do this to animals that cannot defend themselfes, that says alot about them.
I wish the law would really punish these people so they never, never do that to another living thing......
It makes me sick to think I live in a society that still believes they have the right to do this.
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  #29  
Old October 30th, 2006, 04:26 PM
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dogmelissa dogmelissa is offline
Pet Guardian
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 558
I have been busy, and didn't see these new messages until today. My response:

1. The other person in question hadn't been named due to the Young Offenders Act--a set of laws which does not name youths charged with crimes. Whether the other boy in question is this Tim, I don't know and frankly don't want to know. I find it very hard to believe that a young man would write an email with the full name of his friend in it, regardless.

2. Isn't it interesting how a person who had "gone inside and gone to bed" seems to know the details of an animal's demise, including the fact that it had been hit over the head with a shovel, carried a very specific distance, placed in a car, dropped out of a car, etc?

3. I also find it interesting to note that the email says that the other person was attempting to put the dog back in the car when someone saw him, so he left, when the first person on the scene, who police reports confirm was the one who made the call to the vet and the police, found the dog lying on the side of the road, with no other people anywhere to be seen?
http://www.didsburyreview.ca/101706/news3.html (and how traumatized must she be, having sat with a dying dog all alone in the middle of the night, waiting for the vet to arrive??)

4. I feel extremely torn about my opinion of the parents. While I feel sorry for them, because their lives have been ripped to shreds, with one son facing jail time, another disowning his brother (true or not), and having their name spread all over the news (it's a small town, so everyone knows them), I also wonder where they were when their son was younger? People generally don't just "all of a sudden" turn into violent people, and even if this one did, if they'd spent any amount of time joking about hurting animals (which he says in the email they did!), how could they have ignored that? I don't want to blame the parents for their son's actions, but I wonder if there was anything they could have done to get him the help he so obviously needed, before it was too late to save both him and Daisy Duke.


Here are more recent articles on the topic, and ways that we all may be able to help:
http://www.v4a.org/?q=node/217 (whether all of this information is true or not, I cannot verify but still...)
http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnis...6/2134065.html
http://www.pet-abuse.com/cases/9745/AB/CA/

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takea...ltl=1162246160
http://www.didsburyreview.ca/news2.html

For those who are in the area; I am planning on going to the "Pet Walk" with my dog Cube, who was abused, on November 6. Should any of you choose to join me, I'm sure Daisy Duke and those in her life who loved her, would appreciate it.

Daisy, and I hope to see you over the Rainbow Bridge when I get there.

Melissa
__________________
Guardian of Aubrie (14), Taz (10) & one-eyed wonder Cube (10).
Forever in my heart: Patches Gizmo (1987 - 2008), Sierra (1999 - 2010), Rusty (1999 - 2012)


"If you can't afford the vet, you can't afford the pet."
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  #30  
Old October 30th, 2006, 04:29 PM
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we3beagles we3beagles is offline
Beagle Rescue / CDT
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 280
I have a pdf version of the stop animal cruelty petition if anyone wants to collect signatures. The online petitions are of little use legally as they have no actual signatures attached so they can be easily forged. pm me if you want a copy and I can email it to you. They need to be collected and mailed by the last week in November to be given to the local MP.
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