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Old February 24th, 2006, 03:02 PM
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Nature's Variety OR Canidae

Hey guys, I need some food advice. I need to switch Sadie's food again, because she's stopped eating the Nutro Ultra that I've been feeding her. I'm upset about that because it had worked really well with her. I know it's a kind of middle of the road food. I've decided that price definitely isn't an issue.

Originally I was thinking of switching to Solid Gold Just a Wee Bit, but it's fat content is too high. Sadie has definitely been packing on the pounds lately since we've been unfortuneately less active than we should be. So I'd like something with 15% or less fat. She doesn't have allergies that I know of, so that's not an issue. The biggest thing is the size of the actual kibble. For some reason she seems to have issues chewing the bigger sized kibble.

So now I've narrowed it down to Canidae All Life Stages OR Nature's Variety Lamb and Rice.

CANIDAE
All Natural Ingredients
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.


NATURE'S VARIETY
INGREDIENTS
Lamb Meal, Oatmeal, Brown Rice, Barley, Canola Oil (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid), Menhaden Fish Meal, Dicalcium Phosphate, Flaxseed Meal, Montmorillonite Clay, Natural Lamb Flavor, Alfalfa Meal, Potassium Chloride, Vitamins (Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Niacin Supplement, Biotin, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Riboflavin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Beta Carotene, Folic Acid), Sea Salt, Minerals (Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Selenite), Lamb Liver, Inulin, Flaxseed Oil, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Apples, Carrots, Peas, Freeze Dried Lamb, Freeze Dried Lamb Hearts, Freeze Dried Lamb Liver, Pumpkinseeds, Ground Lamb Bone, Butternut Squash, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Kelp, Salmon Oil, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Grapefruit Seed Extract, Persimmons, Olive Oil, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Sage, Clove, Rosemary Extract

The weird thing about Nature's Variety is that they recommend switching the protein everytime. Like rotating from Lamb, to Chicken etc. whenever you purchase a new bag. Is that really necessary?

Anyways, I think I'm leaning towards the Canidae. 3 meats in the first 5 ingredients! Is the sunflower oil a bad thing though? Any experiences with feeding Canidae?

Also, if there's another brand of food you guys can come up with, let me know!
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  #2  
Old February 24th, 2006, 05:24 PM
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Oops, sorry meant to post this in the Dog Food Forum!!
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  #3  
Old February 24th, 2006, 07:14 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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No it's not necessary to switch every time. It's hard enough to find a food your dog agrees with- if it ain't broke...

They're both pretty good, but the Nature's variety has the controversial ingredient "Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex", that has supposedly been banned from human consumption and is being removed from dog foods slowly. The Canidae doesn't have it. The canidae on the other hand has sunflower oil, which we're debating in another thread in the dog food forum. I don't think it's horrible though. I don't think it's something that should deter you from buying the food, but if we find out more, I'll let you know.

All this is about pooling info, sort of an "us vs them" situation and it seems the foods we look at are only good until somebody hears something bad about them....


As for fat, I think it would be far better to cut down on the amount you feed rather than the % fat. Your dog's coat quality and shine will suffer, as will her overall health. If you feed the Just a wee bit, you will have to feed quite a bit less than you were feeding of the Nutro. (But it's a tasty food, so you might have more luck getting her to eat it).
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Old February 24th, 2006, 07:15 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Solid gold has a lower fat/lower protein food though, if you decide to stick to that route: Holistique Blendz The fish in it might help keep her coat in better shape...
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Old February 24th, 2006, 07:53 PM
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I've searched my butt of looking for info on ""Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex"". I can't find anything other than the info on mordanna.com.

The only food that agree's with Bubba.. Performatrin Ultra contains it. So I'm still unsure whether to worry about it or not.

Prin, have you found any other info you could possibly pm me?
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Old February 24th, 2006, 08:11 PM
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Nope. And mordanna doesn't look so good without references other than hints to "a german study".
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Old February 24th, 2006, 09:03 PM
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I feed Canidae and have been very happy with it. Great health, growth, coats, happy pups. I can't speak for the other brand at all. I did a lot of research before choosing a food, and for what I can afford and what is available in my area, it was the best choice for us. You could always try it out and see!
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Old February 25th, 2006, 09:23 PM
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I have been feeding my three Canidae for just about a year and have been pleased with the results. Coats look good, weight is being maintained, all still dive thier noses right into it.
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Old February 26th, 2006, 06:20 PM
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I read at another dog food forum that Canidae has their head office in San Luis Obispo, California but their food is milled at the Pied Piper Mill in Texas. The article (supposedly from Solid Gold) at: http://www.anatoliandog.org/members/solidgold.htm
says dog food mills in Texas are bad. It also says that Canada doesn`t permit any dog food containing chicken or duck into the country if it`s milled in Texas.
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Old February 26th, 2006, 07:29 PM
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well I don't know where canidae is milled, but the answer is in your post... if Canada doesn't allow foods from Texas with chicken, and Canidae has chicken, and Canidae is in Canada... all things being true, then it follows that Canidae is not milled in Texas.
this reminds me of being in gr 12 algebra again.
I like solid gold, but the site you posted has some suspect science there... saying that round up is a gmo and was inserted into corn genes... not exactly how it all works. careful what you read/believe on the internet!
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Old February 26th, 2006, 08:18 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Actually, it says round up is a spray that is sprayed onto the corn and alters the DNA... Which isn't right either, but it's closer... I don't remember the mechanism of it, all I know is Monsanto = bad.

Hey, I found an article about Round up being linked to cancer and it explains round up a bit... To use round up, you have to have special GMO corn that is resistant to it. So everything dies except your special corn.
http://www.organicconsumers.org/Mons...yphocancer.cfm
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  #12  
Old February 26th, 2006, 08:32 PM
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I found this on the Canadian Food inspection agency website:

Quote:
Agricultural Products subject to Import Controls:

Chicken, Turkey
Broiler Hatching Eggs and Chicks, Shell Eggs and Egg Products
Cheese
Butter, Margarine
Ice Cream, Yogurt, Other Dairy Products
Barley and Barley Products
Wheat and Wheat Products
Beef and Veal from Non-NAFTA countries (North American Free Trade Agreement)
Doesn't say they're banned, but very controlled and I can't find anything about Texas yet.
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Old February 26th, 2006, 08:46 PM
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Ok, I found something about texas... Apparently they had an outbreak of "Exotic Newcastle disease" in 2002 in Texas, among a few other states. It is a fatal virus for birds but doesn't affect humans. A bunch of countries, including Canada, banned poultry products from the states.
http://animalagriculture.org/poultry...R/phr_sp03.pdf

OK! I found a better source (sorry, I'm searching as I'm posting):
http://www.inspection.gc.ca/english/...astlefse.shtml
It's from 2003, but it basically says:
Quote:
CFIA port-of-entry inspections prohibit the import and entry (commercial or personal) of certain live birds, poultry, poultry products and by-products from countries where END is known to occur.
They just don't want another outbreak in Canada (the last one was in 1973).

In case anybody wanted a good site full of links to some important stuff, I found this one from the govt of Canada: http://www.collectionscanada.ca/caninfo/ep063.htm
Check it out. (pets.ca is on it!)
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Old February 26th, 2006, 09:42 PM
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Someone from the other dog food forum got a reply to the email they sent to Canidae. Canidae said their dog food is milled in Texas.
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Old February 26th, 2006, 09:59 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Hmm... The link I posted for the Canadian govt had info from 2003, so maybe the ban has been lifted since then. Either way, our loving government would protect our pets from any harm, right? Right?
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Old February 27th, 2006, 08:07 AM
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thanks for all the research Prin!

"Monsanto Round-Up weed spray was the GMO that was inserted into the genes of corn to kill insects."

This is the quote from Rainbow's site that I was referring to. It is the type of thing I read and then discount the rest of the article. GRR. Anyway, if Canidae is milled in Texas then I guess Canada isn't restricting them. I wonder how many of the foods we buy for ourselves are from there

Last edited by phoenix; February 27th, 2006 at 08:11 AM.
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  #17  
Old February 27th, 2006, 11:28 AM
Prin Prin is offline
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Discount away... That's what we're here for. All the important stuff (i.e. about sunflower oil), I have found else where anyway. I had to find better sources because I'm the one that found that link and posted it last week.. Usually, I don't like a dog food company telling me "facts". But solid gold is the one saying sunflower oil is bad, and the link was them saying why they think so.
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Old February 28th, 2006, 05:39 PM
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So what's the verdict on Sunflower Oil then? Not bad, but not good either? I got lost somewhere along the line.

Anyways, thanks alot for all the help and research. I can always count on you guys. Esp. you Prin when it comes to anything food related.

I got a whole bunch of samples of different dog foods to try with smaller kibble and Sadie would hardly touch any of them! I don't understand how she could just go from being the worlds most gluttonous dog to being this picky. So I took her to the vet, who checked her out all over and gave her a clean bill of health. She's pretty sure Sadie has just matured and smartened up and has been spoiled by my parents who always slip her people food under the table. So that's why she's making a fuss about eating dog food. She thinks she deserves whatever we're having! So from now on it's dog food only.

The vet said to cut out everything else, except for a couple of healthy treats a day. She has about 2 pounds to lose, which is a lot when it's 15% of her body weight. But hopefully we should be able to get it off with a little bit of work and a lot of fetch.
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Old February 28th, 2006, 08:21 PM
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Sunflower oil as the first fat in the ingredient list is bad. Further down, after good fats, high in omega-3, like flaxseed oil or fish oil, or supplemented with omega-3 or flaxseed oil, would be ok... But the best is to avoid it if it bugs you. I posted another thread on sunflower oil if you want to have a look. I found some better links and stuff.
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Old March 1st, 2006, 09:03 PM
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Canidae is a good food.jmo but I would not pay much attention to anything written by solid gold
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 11:22 AM
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Why wouldn`t you pay much attention to anything written by Solid Gold?

From what I`ve read in this forum, I thought they were supposed to be really good?

I`m still trying to decide on a dog food, and they were on my short list, so what`s bad about them?
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 12:37 PM
LL1 LL1 is offline
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They have had problems before with false claims.The ads are usually full of faulty science and slamming other foods imo,I think the quality is poor as well.I would never use it.
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  #23  
Old March 2nd, 2006, 01:13 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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The stuff about sunflower oil is true though. I found a few other sources that stated the same thing. Taking "facts" from any food company is iffy, but in this case, they checked out.

As for quality, I have never noticed anything off in their food. Why would you say the quality is poor? Please elaborate.
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  #24  
Old March 2nd, 2006, 04:16 PM
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It depends on what you are worried about in your food.Sunflower oil is a good source imo,menhaden fishmeal and citric acid would bother me more.Canidae is not my fav food,but I would choose it over solid gold and the natures variety posted.I also do not like lamb as a main source,and with multi proteins I would worry about allergy issues down the road and sorting out the cause.The maker of solid gold is not trusthworthy imo and been caught telling tales before.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 04:42 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Every dog food maker tells "tales", IMO. What's worse? Telling tales or having huge product recalls? Regardless of what a manufacturer says about anything, it's about finding out for yourself. Whenever I hear something, I dig deeper to find out what is really going on. Saying they're "not trustworthy" doesn't really mean anything without backup. WHY not? Do you have anything concrete, or is it just your own personal opinion? People think I'll get offended if they bash solid gold. It's just a food. If you have some serious info about them, fine. But somebody saying it's bad "just because" is not good enough.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 07:43 PM
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Nature's Variety

Can you give specifics about problems with Solid Gold? What food would you recommend?
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 07:58 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LL1
Sunflower oil is a good source imo,menhaden fishmeal and citric acid would bother me more.
Read this thread about sunflower oil. The sources are better and they all say the same thing. The ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 is way too high.
http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=24324
The rest of us are searching for info endlessly and posting all we find out. We're trying to help each other out here...
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 08:12 PM
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1. So far, I`ve only heard good things abount menhaden fish meal. So, what is the bad stuff and where did you hear it from?

2. Sunflower oil is mainly Omega 6 and almost no Omega 3. Why are you not concerned about sunflower oil and the connection to cancer?

3. What is your opinion about Menadione Sodium Bisulfite (there`s a controversy posted under other threads)?

4. And, as copperbelle asked, "what food would you recommend, if Canidae is not your favourite, but you prefer it over Solid Golid or Natures Variety?"

5. And, what is your opinion.....AND anybody else`s about Innova?
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 08:24 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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My opinion on innova is that their regular food is ok, not special though, but the 42% Evo, to me should still be tested... I think that the % protein is too high and that there might be consequences as a result. I've never met a piece of meat that was 42% protein by weight.
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Old March 2nd, 2006, 09:10 PM
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Innova

Innova is a good food although it is very high in protein. As a result some dogs have problems with it especially during the switch. One person who sold it told me it was the best food in the world in one sentence went on to tell me that his dog had bloody diarrhea because of the food. He said the switch had to be done very slowly.
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