Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog food forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old January 8th, 2006, 06:07 PM
Jax Jax is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Burb of Chicago
Posts: 5
Exclamation Couple ??s about eating & weight

Okay, first, I'm new here so I just wanted to say hello!
Here's my dilemma. A year ago I adopted a pyranese/lab mix (Duke) who was 3.5 years old. At the time that I adopted him I thought that he was majorly neglected because of his weight. I have spent the last year trying to put some weight on him and nothing works! My vet has tested him for worms and the sort and all tests are negative.
So, my first question is... any suggestions?
I have tried to mix oatmeal, wet food, that new Iams stuff, raw eggs, fish oil, and wet puppy food with his adult dry food. I am now in the process of feeding him dry puppy food. This was at the suggestion of my vet. I am only feeding him the dry food to see if it works. If it does not - which it hasn't been - she suggested that I start to put Infamil on his food. Unfortunately, I am in college and student teaching right now. This is the last semester of my college career and I am not allowed to have a job. So, she also said that if he seems happy and healthy (which he does) I shouldn't worry. Just to put this into perspective an adult pyranese is supposed to weigh at least one hundred pounds. Considering the fact that he does have some lab, my vet says his lowest weight should be 80lbs. Well, he weighs 60!
My next question....
How do I make it so that he enjoys eating? I have never been an advocate of giving him (or my other pets) any people food. So, I know this is not a problem. My dogs rarely get people food and therefore are probably not hoping for it. I honestly have to spend at least 5 minutes telling Duke to "go eat" or "eat your dinner". Then, while he's eating, I have to be in the room, sitting still. If I am not sitting quietly in the room he will stop eating. He has gone two days without eating before... although, luckily he is getting to the point where he only skips one day every once in awhile (it used to be all of the time). And, I was told by my vet that it is possibly the type of food he was eating... but, problem is there have been times where I have poured something like gravy on his food and he still refuses to eat it.
I am honestly worried that an ASPCA person will see Duke and try to arrest me for neglect (his bones show that easily - through a thick pyranese coat!). I want him to be healthy and nothing is working that my vet, vet tech friends, animal loving friends, etc have suggested. Please help!!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old January 8th, 2006, 06:25 PM
technodoll's Avatar
technodoll technodoll is offline
Honest Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 5,900
hello jax,

what kibble are you currently feeding your dog? it may just be a question of finding a concentrated (calories per cup), good quality food that is both palatable and healthy and you should see an enthusiasm for mealtimes and weight gain. and there is NOTHING wrong with giving dogs "real food", aka "people food" - why should they be relegated to eating a chemically processed diet of grainy nuggets of byproducts from the human food chain?...

find a good holistic food your dog enjoys eating if you don't want to cook for him or go the raw diet way (petstores usually have samples on hand, don't be shy to ask for some), and add those supplements! Canned fish is excellent (salmon, sardines, mackeral - look for sales and stock up), scramble up some eggs as they are an excellent source of protein, add cooked meats to the kibble, full-fat cottage cheese, good-quality canned dog food...

hint: there are NO good dog foods to be found in the supermarket. ask Prin if you don't believe me, LOL

Try a food called Go! Natural, at 617 calories per cup, that should put weight on your boy (it did on mine!). Look for meat, not grains, in the ingredients list. Here is a good article that will help you identify good ingredients vs shoddy:
http://www.mordanna.com/dogfood/index.php?page=identify

good luck!
__________________
"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine"

Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

:love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love:
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old January 8th, 2006, 06:32 PM
Bushfire2000's Avatar
Bushfire2000 Bushfire2000 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 462
Wow that doesn't sound good. Have you taken Duke to more than one vet?

There might be some food additive that would increase his appetite.
Putting gravy on the food seemed like a good idea, too bad that didn't work.

I have a farm dog, Mavis, she's part Pyrenes and part Border Collie she doesn't like dry food at all, and is only interested in it if the other dogs are outside, otherwise she will catch her own food, rodents or (sorry gross) she eats cow manure.

I don't know how this would help you because I don't think you're going to import rodents for her or cow manure. Maybe trying a raw food diet would work. I didn't catch were you were from but if you have freezer space now is a good time to approach farmers for cheap beef. Check with the local butcher for offal or organ meat.

Are you sure Dukes part Lab? Of course if you can see his ribs it doesn't matter what breed he is.
__________________
Mom to
Lacey (7yrs) Shih Tzu/Chi, Buster (5yrs)Shih Tzu, Mavis (5yrs) Border cross,Lily (2yrs) Shih Tzu, and two of the best human boys


Spelling is an option
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old January 8th, 2006, 06:49 PM
Jax Jax is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Burb of Chicago
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by technodoll
hello jax,

what kibble are you currently feeding your dog? it may just be a question of finding a concentrated (calories per cup), good quality food that is both palatable and healthy and you should see an enthusiasm for mealtimes and weight gain. and there is NOTHING wrong with giving dogs "real food", aka "people food" - why should they be relegated to eating a chemically processed diet of grainy nuggets of byproducts from the human food chain?...
Duke is currently eating eukanuba puppy chow for big dogs. According to my vet, this is probably one of the better concentrations of calories.
As for the people food - sorry, I probably didn't make that very clear. When I say that I don't give the dogs people food, I mostly mean that they don't get table scraps. I mentioned that because the first thing that everyone tells me, when I mention my problem, is to stop feeding him table scraps. As for cooking for Duke (and max, my other dog), I have considered this, but the problem lies with my money right now. Unfortunately, when I adopted Duke, I never thought I would ever have to be unemployed. Even while taking classes, I worked 20 to 30 hours a week. As of now, I can get in trouble for working any hours. So money is a major issue for the next 4 months.

Quote:
Originally Posted by technodoll
find a good holistic food your dog enjoys eating if you don't want to cook for him or go the raw diet way (petstores usually have samples on hand, don't be shy to ask for some), and add those supplements! Canned fish is excellent (salmon, sardines, mackeral - look for sales and stock up), scramble up some eggs as they are an excellent source of protein, add cooked meats to the kibble, full-fat cottage cheese, good-quality canned dog food...
I have tried eggs, canned food, and meats, but haven't heard about cottage cheese before. Thanks for that suggestion. Honestly, I have never owned (or met) a dog that had no enthusiasm for eating. Especially when you put meat or eggs on their food. I will say that he is typically more likely to eat when there is meat on his meal... but eggs and canned food have never made a difference.

Thanks for your suggestions.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old January 8th, 2006, 07:05 PM
technodoll's Avatar
technodoll technodoll is offline
Honest Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 5,900
dear jax,

my boy was the most picky eater ever and it was such a struggle to feed him! sometimes i just wanted to wring his neck for refusing raw steak, LOL! we did the runaround from raw, to cooked, to kibble, back to raw, and now a mixture of raw and kibble... because he needed to gain weight, raw alone was not enough calories for him... he has now gained 7 lbs in less than 2 months and we are so happy. he's an intact male that just turned 2 years old and now weighs 109 lbs, right where he should be for his age. whew!

BUT it has been a long hard journey through the dog food diet jungle, let me tell you! and the best simple advice i can give you, again, is: if you can find a dog food in a grocery store (Iams, Eukanuba, etc) then it is NOT a good food for your pet... no matter what the vet says. If you want proof, read http://www.mordanna.com/dogfood/index.php?page=identify and then you will be armed with the proper information on how to read ingredient labels and decipher all the hoopla.

IMO, get your dog off the Pukanuba (no wonder he's not eating it he knows the garbage in there!) and onto a good, holistic dog food that he can actually digest. What's the point of stuffing him full of calories if they just go through his body? Bioavailability of ingredients is directly linked to their quality, and good ingredients lead to better digestion & absorption of nutrients... hence a weight gain.

of course all this assuming your boy has no health issues, no parasites or thyroid problems, etc

being unemployed and on a budget sucks, but you can feed your dog a great kibble (they eat less of the good, concentrated stuff) and supplement with yummy goodies (sardines and salmon from the Dollar Store are great), ditch the canned dog food as the good quality stuff is very expensive for what it is (80% water). Find a butcher who sells beef hearts & offal for less than a buck a pound, bake those and chop up into the kibble, juice and all... i guarantee you results!!!

to wrap this up... holistic kibble is only found in good pet stores, and your dog will need less of this food as it's more concentrated and highly digestible - so in the end it should not be too much on your budget. and your dog will love you for it!
__________________
"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine"

Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

:love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love:
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old January 8th, 2006, 07:12 PM
Jax Jax is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Burb of Chicago
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushfire2000
Wow that doesn't sound good. Have you taken Duke to more than one vet?

There might be some food additive that would increase his appetite.
Putting gravy on the food seemed like a good idea, too bad that didn't work.

I have a farm dog, Mavis, she's part Pyrenes and part Border Collie she doesn't like dry food at all, and is only interested in it if the other dogs are outside, otherwise she will catch her own food, rodents or (sorry gross) she eats cow manure.

I don't know how this would help you because I don't think you're going to import rodents for her or cow manure. Maybe trying a raw food diet would work. I didn't catch were you were from but if you have freezer space now is a good time to approach farmers for cheap beef. Check with the local butcher for offal or organ meat.

Are you sure Dukes part Lab? Of course if you can see his ribs it doesn't matter what breed he is.
Bushfire,
Well, I imagine if I got a shipment of cow manure the post office out here wouldn't be too happy! haha. But, I forgot to mention that it one of Duke's favorites as well - cat feces. He just loves it when the litter box is left 'full' for him. As for vets... I have been to three different vets and due to a recent move I will be going to a fourth.
Unfortunately, I have absolutely NO freezer space. I am living with my mom for this semester (to do the student teaching) and she has the smallest freezer known to mankind - we can't even fit our food in there. But, after I'm done student teaching I'm getting a good job and moving out of here... and then I'll have enough money to at least buy some decent meat for the dog.
As for Duke - the reason we think he is part lab is because he has a smart bump. And some other things were tip offs... but we don't know for sure.
Thanks!
Jax
p.s. I'll be waiting for that shipment!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old January 8th, 2006, 07:19 PM
raingirl's Avatar
raingirl raingirl is offline
<-----nut ball
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,804
I don't know if you were ever told, but feeding super premium is cheaper per feeding than feeding something like Eukanuba. Eukanuba is no better than Iams, which is HORRIBLE food.

THis is how it is cheaper: Read this article http://petcaretips.net/premiumfood.html

when you buy a bag of Eukanuba, it may be large and cheap, but you have to feed twice as much per feeding to get the same calories as a super premium food, which is less than twice the cost, so therefore cheaper.

If you spend $45 on a large bag of Eukanuba and feed 6 cups a day, and spend $60 for the same amount of super premium (Wellness, solid gold, eagle pack, natural balance to name a few) and feed 3 cups of day to get the same nutrition, you are better off.

Vets are paid to say that Eukanuba is good, because they probably sell their products at their office.

I would suggest switching to a better food and see if that helps. And it will also save you money. The ones usually recommened here are Wellness, Solid Gold, Eagle Pack, Merrick, Natural Balance, and Cannidae. Not all of them are available in the states though. Basically, you want a food that has good meat and grain sources in the first five ingredients, and no corn or soy (dogs don't digest these, and they are just fillers). We have a food forum here, so pop over there to see all the old posts on food related issues.
__________________
Prevent a litter
Fix your critter

Last edited by raingirl; January 8th, 2006 at 07:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old January 8th, 2006, 07:23 PM
t.pettet t.pettet is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: lanark, Ont.
Posts: 1,255
eating & weight

Had a Great Dane who was a very picky eater, had to put beef gravy on his dry or he wouldn't touch it and he was always very slim. Tried every conceivable combination of appetizing food but he would only eat this 1 type with gravy. I did notice that he would develop an appetite and eat with a bit of relish only if he's been out to the park for playing, swimming, frisby for atleast 1 hr. a day. He didn't count walkies on a leash as enough calorie burning to eat his dinner and would skip meals as yours does. Perhaps he needs more physical/mental stimulation.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old January 8th, 2006, 07:34 PM
technodoll's Avatar
technodoll technodoll is offline
Honest Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 5,900
Lightbulb

jax, the pukanuba puppy chow only has 362 calories per cup, which is very low for a large adult trying to gain weight. the food we feed now is almost double the calories, per cup. you will need to shovel in a LOT of cups to get the caloric intake he needs to put on some weight, which means big poops and extra $ out of your pocket.

the ingredients are pretty bad too, here is the list and some pointers:

Chicken, (not chicken meal which is dry form - which means this chicken has the water still in it. take out the water during processing and this ingredient falls to the bottom of the list)
Corn Meal, (you do NOT want corn in your dog's food. corn is for cows and not digestible for dogs, a very poor ingredient)
Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, (not the best grain but not the worst)
Chicken By-Product Meal, (avoid by-product as much as possible - Chicken byproducts are much less expensive and less digestible than the chicken muscle meat.The ingredients of each batch can vary drastically in ingredients (heads, feet, bones etc.) as well as quality, thus the nutritional value is also not consistent. Don't forget that byproducts consist of any parts of the animal OTHER than meat. If there is any use for any part of the animal that brings more profit than selling it as "byproduct", rest assured it will appear in such a product rather than in the "byproduct" dumpster.
Fish Meal (source of fish oil), (Like with all other animal sources, if a type isn't specified, you never know what type or quality of fish is used.
According to US Coast Guard regulations, all fish meal not destined for human consumption must be conserved with Ethoxyquin (unless the manufacturer has a special permit). This preservative is banned from use in foods for human consumption except for the use of very small quantities as a color preservative for spices. So unless the manufacturer either presents a permit or states "human grade" fish or fish meal is used, you can be pretty sure Ethoxyquin is present in the food even if it is not listed.)
Brewers Rice, A processed rice product that is missing many of the nutrients contained in whole ground rice and brown rice. Contrary to what many pet food companies want to make you believe, this is not a high quality ingredient, just much cheaper than whole grain rice.

compare pukanuba to a holistic, quality food such as Go! Natural and you get to see a pattern...

Chicken Meal, Chicken, Whole Brown Rice, Whole White Rice, Whole Barley, Sunflower Oil, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols [Vit E], Citric Acid [Vit C] and Rosemary extract), Salmon Meal, Dried Whole Potatoes, Rice Bran, Natural Chicken Flavour, Drtied Whole Apples, Dried Whole Carrots, Flax, Ginger, Alfalfa, Beta Carotene, Dried Whole Cranberries, Kelp...
Go Natural Dog Food is Canadian Made and is ranked among the world's best quality dog foods. Go Natural dog food has been recommended by the Whole Dog Journal since 2002.

With a 42% meat inclusion and a digestible energy level of 617 KCals per cup, Go! Natural dog food is one of the most nutrient dense diets available. Go Natural dog food is formulated with the four food groups in mind and only fresh wholesome ingredients are used, such as human grade chicken meat, low ash chicken meal, salmon, potatoes, carrots, apples, cranberries, and many more healthy ingredients. There are no by products, and there is no corn, wheat, soy or artificial chemical preservatives.

http://www.petcurean.com/main.php
__________________
"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine"

Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

:love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love:

Last edited by technodoll; January 8th, 2006 at 07:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old January 8th, 2006, 08:02 PM
raingirl's Avatar
raingirl raingirl is offline
<-----nut ball
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,804
OUt of curiousity I went to the Eukanuba site to look at the ingredients of your food:

Chicken, Corn Meal, Ground Whole Grain Sorghum, Ground Whole Grain Barley, Chicken By-Product Meal, Fish Meal (source of fish oil), Natural Chicken Flavor, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of vitamin E, and Citric Acid), Dried Egg Product, Brewers Dried Yeast, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Salt, Flax Meal, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Beta-Carotene, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), Niacin, Riboflavin Supplement (source of vitamin B2), Inositol, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Choline Chloride, Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Potassium Iodide, Cobalt Carbonate), DL-Methionine, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Rosemary Extract

First of all, Corn Meal, the second ingredient, means that the second most thing in your dog food is corn meal, which is not digestible by dogs! THat means that most of the food you are feeding is going right through him without any nutritional benefit at all!

Dried beet pulp isn't horrible, but it's really just there to make the stool harder, which isn't needed. Plus there is added salt.
__________________
Prevent a litter
Fix your critter
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old January 8th, 2006, 08:22 PM
coppperbelle's Avatar
coppperbelle coppperbelle is offline
Owned by goldens
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,806
Eating and Weight

I am not a huge fan of Eukanuba foods for a number of reasons. One reason is that it is overpriced for the quality of ingredients you get. I notice you live in the U.S. Have you looked at Natural Balance foods? They have great ingredients and it probably costs the same as the Eukanuba and you will have to feed less.

I recently had a foster golden that weighed 121 pounds. When I fed him he barely ate. I couldn't figure out how he got so big picking at his food. I figured he was picking because he was upset about the change of homes etc... I gave him a few days and when he still wasn't eating well I began to put fish oil on his food. I would pierce the capsule and spread it all over his food. The smell was awful but he ate.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old January 8th, 2006, 10:18 PM
Jax Jax is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Burb of Chicago
Posts: 5
Wow, well, I have heard about holistic foods and such... I never realized there was such a large difference between all of these foods. But I have to say, that these companies should hire all of you for advertising... hehe
I also wonder if I am oblivious, or are these foods readily available? I have yet to see them. But, I don't typically look for them either. I have been planning on running to the pet store to pick up some cat litter... so I'll keep an eye out.
Another question. Max - my other dog (chow/lab mix) - is on prescription food (which is also eukanuba). How can I get him something better when he needs this type of food?
If you're wondering, which I'm sure you are... it's early stage kidney because he has issues with kidney stones... among many many other things.
Also, so if I were to get one of these natural dog foods, would you suggest I continue with the puppy formula or go back to the adult formula. And how do I figure out which one I should pick... I've been looking at the websites and I am majorly confused. Eh... It's probably because I have a horrible headache and do not want to read the computer anymore.
Thanks again for all the help
Jax

Last edited by Jax; January 8th, 2006 at 10:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old January 8th, 2006, 10:50 PM
technodoll's Avatar
technodoll technodoll is offline
Honest Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 5,900
adult dogs (past 1 year for giant breeds) should be on adult food only, better for their bones and joints. if it's a good quality food, the nutrients will be there & easily available for absorption - no need for puppy food.

here is a list of some good holistic foods to look for (print out and bring to the petstore with you, or call ahead to find out if they stock the brands you are interested in trying):

List of Quality Dog Foods (Kibble)
Canidae
Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul
Eagle Pack Holistic Foods
Fromm 4 Star Dry
Go! Natural
Innova
Life Abundance
Natural Balance
Nature's Variety
Precise Plus
PHD
Pinnacle
Solid Gold
Wellness
Wysong

for your lab/chow mix, feeding a sick dog a poor-quality food will NOT help in repairing the immune system, it's only masking the symptoms (if at that) and not addressing the root problem. Ask yourself... what made my dog sick in the first place? after hereditary factors, food is the main culprit. change the diet and often the problem is cured. you should have your dog examined by a holistic vet (not an allopathic one) and get dietary recommendations that would surprise you...
__________________
"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine"

Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

:love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love:
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old January 8th, 2006, 11:17 PM
Jax Jax is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Burb of Chicago
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by technodoll
for your lab/chow mix, feeding a sick dog a poor-quality food will NOT help in repairing the immune system, it's only masking the symptoms (if at that) and not addressing the root problem. Ask yourself... what made my dog sick in the first place? after hereditary factors, food is the main culprit. change the diet and often the problem is cured. you should have your dog examined by a holistic vet (not an allopathic one) and get dietary recommendations that would surprise you...
Techno,
Thanks again for all your advice. Honestly, all of this holistic stuff is just so different to me. It makes sense, which is why when I originally found it in my research, I read on. But, I still don't understand why it is not more wide spread if it is so wonderful.
For instance, it worries me that go! natural had a lawsuit against them because animals were killed. But still, I plan to finally make the change to natural foods for the dogs. I may not have a job right now, but living in the city (rather than the country where I moved from) I not at least have the option to buy these foods on the list. In the country where I used to live, I could buy from the vet or wal-mart. So yea, I have a reason and opportunity to move to another food and try things out.
As for holistic vets... wow! That is one thing I never considered. But ya know... not something I would say no to. I would have to look around. I don't know where one might be around here. Though I'm sure I can find one. Problem is, I have always had such bad luck with vets that I refuse to see one unless i have had someone I know and trust tell me it is a good vet. And none of my friends have ever seen a holistic vet. Heh, I feel like a 21yr old in a liquor store, everything is SO new.
**Eh! Forgot to mention the thing about max. So you're saying if I just go to a holistic food, he'll be okay? Cuz let me tell you... I was told if he gets those crystals again it could kill him! I definitely don't want that to happen.
I'm gonna go google a holistic vet - Thanks again and again
Jax

Last edited by Jax; January 8th, 2006 at 11:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old January 8th, 2006, 11:40 PM
technodoll's Avatar
technodoll technodoll is offline
Honest Contributor
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Montreal, QC
Posts: 5,900
jax good luck on finding a holistic vet in your city And perhaps you could join a local online dog community to ask for referrals?... where are you located, maybe i have some friends in your area who could help out?...

about max's condition, i do not know the answer as i'm not a vet, but it's just common sense... keep doing what you do now in the meantime, but i leave it to you to chew on Raw diets have been knows to help a LOT with such health problems (easy to digest, around 16% pure protein so not taxing on the kidneys, 100% nutrient bioavailability, etc).

but just to show you... the ingredients for eukanuba Rx Kidney Diet are atrocious, i mean you are paying big bucks for a bag of industry garbage (literally) and i cannot for the life of me imagine that a dog (carnivore) could manage to stay healthy on a bag of:

Corn Meal, Corn Grits, Chicken, Brewers Rice, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Soy Protein Isolate, Fish Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of Vitamin E, and Citric Acid), Dried Egg Product, Natural Chicken Flavor, Gum Arabic, Chicken Liver, Fructooligosaccharides, Calcium Carbonate, Brewers Dried Yeast, Fish Oil (preserved with Ethoxyquin), Salt

aside from the chicken (which is 100% NOT human-grade), there is not one single ingredient that is natural for a dog to eat, all are inferior by-products and waste from the human food chain, ethoxyquin is a proven carcinogen, and guess what... your vet is laughing all the way to the bank by cashing in big profits from selling this garbage.

get that boy off the industry waste packaged in a fancy bag, give him real food (raw meat, raw meaty bones, raw organs) and get him healthy again like you've never seen it... join the raw-feeding list to get all the help and answers you need, including referrals to holistic vets....
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/

you can do it PLUS it's a helluva lot of fun, too!
__________________
"Let Thy Food Be Thy Medicine"

Take nothing but pictures, leave nothing but footprints.

:love: ~Akitas Are Love~ :love:
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old January 9th, 2006, 12:09 AM
Bushfire2000's Avatar
Bushfire2000 Bushfire2000 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 462
Sorry, no cow poop coming your way. It'd probably get stopped at the border anyway.

I would definitely change your food if you can, for no other reason than to avoid the "big poop" pick-up. I hope all goes well with both your dogs. I don't use a holistic vet myself but thats because there isn't one close to me.
I'd give one a try if you get the opportunity.
__________________
Mom to
Lacey (7yrs) Shih Tzu/Chi, Buster (5yrs)Shih Tzu, Mavis (5yrs) Border cross,Lily (2yrs) Shih Tzu, and two of the best human boys


Spelling is an option
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old January 9th, 2006, 02:26 AM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
oooo Appetite needs stimulation? Large breed doggy? I'm in heaven!

Ask any dog food store near you for samples of Solid Gold Wolf Cub or Solid Gold Wolf King. I have been recommending them since I started my babies on them almost a year ago. Both are very rich foods and are very tasty. People have told me that their previously picky, never hungry doggies WOLF down this food. My doggies wake me up to eat in the morning. Still!

I would keep on the puppy food for a couple of bags and then switch to adult if it's going well. If you do go with the Solid Gold ones, switching from Wolf Cub to Wolf King will be easy because they're almost the same formulas. Wolf Cub is a bit more expensive than Wolf King though, but either one is more dense than Euk (or as we call it "Puke"), so your doggy will need to eat less than he does now to get the same energy.

Remember though, because Euk has tons of stool hardeners in it, you'll have to switch to any holistic food very gradually. The doggy's system has to learn to do all the digestive work on its own and that could take time.

Oh I have so much to say! But it's 2 AM...

Here are Wolf Cub and Wolf King, so you can check out their ingredients:
Wolf Cub
Wolf King

Also, I thought I would mention, I've noticed that foods with fish in them tend to be tastier, so whatever you go with, try fishy foods.

And about this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raingirl
First of all, Corn Meal, the second ingredient, means that the second most thing in your dog food is corn meal, which is not digestible by dogs! THat means that most of the food you are feeding is going right through him without any nutritional benefit at all!
When the food is cooked, the chicken becomes dehydrated and loses the majority of its weight, which moves the corn up to #1- it is corn MEAL- which is dehydrated. Ick. Ideally you want "Chicken Meal" or "Turkey Meal" or "Salmon Meal", any specific meat meal (if it says "meat meal" literally, you DON'T want that AT ALL!! ). The "meal" part means it's dehydrated, so the weight of the water isn't included. Dog food companies are sneaky. You have to be suspicious of everything.

The main thing with your doggy is get samples. Try them out and see if he favors one more than the other. Oh and don't take dietary advice from your vet.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old October 24th, 2008, 10:26 AM
teknotrip teknotrip is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Columbus MS
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax View Post
Okay, first, I'm new here so I just wanted to say hello!
Here's my dilemma. A year ago I adopted a pyranese/lab mix (Duke) who was 3.5 years old. At the time that I adopted him I thought that he was majorly neglected because of his weight. I have spent the last year trying to put some weight on him and nothing works! My vet has tested him for worms and the sort and all tests are negative.
So, my first question is... any suggestions?
I have tried to mix oatmeal, wet food, that new Iams stuff, raw eggs, fish oil, and wet puppy food with his adult dry food. I am now in the process of feeding him dry puppy food. This was at the suggestion of my vet. I am only feeding him the dry food to see if it works. If it does not - which it hasn't been - she suggested that I start to put Infamil on his food. Unfortunately, I am in college and student teaching right now. This is the last semester of my college career and I am not allowed to have a job. So, she also said that if he seems happy and healthy (which he does) I shouldn't worry. Just to put this into perspective an adult pyranese is supposed to weigh at least one hundred pounds. Considering the fact that he does have some lab, my vet says his lowest weight should be 80lbs. Well, he weighs 60!
My next question....
How do I make it so that he enjoys eating? I have never been an advocate of giving him (or my other pets) any people food. So, I know this is not a problem. My dogs rarely get people food and therefore are probably not hoping for it. I honestly have to spend at least 5 minutes telling Duke to "go eat" or "eat your dinner". Then, while he's eating, I have to be in the room, sitting still. If I am not sitting quietly in the room he will stop eating. He has gone two days without eating before... although, luckily he is getting to the point where he only skips one day every once in awhile (it used to be all of the time). And, I was told by my vet that it is possibly the type of food he was eating... but, problem is there have been times where I have poured something like gravy on his food and he still refuses to eat it.
I am honestly worried that an ASPCA person will see Duke and try to arrest me for neglect (his bones show that easily - through a thick pyranese coat!). I want him to be healthy and nothing is working that my vet, vet tech friends, animal loving friends, etc have suggested. Please help!!
Hi, I'm new here too. Heres my advice for what its worth. Duke is not alone, many dogs are finicky eaters. There are all sorts of reasons for this, I personally believe in most cases it stems from not liking whats on his plate. Remember, dogs have taste buds too, they are not unlike us. However, Duke knows what he needs, despite his being under weight, if you have had him to the vet, and he received a clean bill of health, chances are, he's fine, you just need to find a meal or meals he happens to like, he knows what his body needs, and if he's hungry, he'll eat. As far as getting in trouble, if he's not abused or neglected, you'll be fine. As far as people food goes, well, here's a fact, it won't hurt him as long as you give him the same balanced diet that people eat. Most dog foods are made from bi-products of people food anyway. Just stay away from the cheap ones, they contain many bi-products that should be recycled for other means. I personally have had several dogs in my life as well as cats. I Have had them live healthy and happy to lengths far longer than expected of that particular breed, in some cases nearly double. For example, my Ausie lived to be the ripe old age of 19. She died healthy, happy and of natural causes unrelated to diet. She never ate one bite of "dog food" in her life. However, she did eat a balanced diet of meat, vegitables, fruit, bread, starches, etc. So far, all of my animals have lived long healthy lives. Just give him lots of love, and keep trying, he'll come around. If you don't want him to be a people food addict, mix it in with good quality dry food, or mix good quality can food with dry. You can also take the juices from your people food and pour over his dry kibbles. Even fat and grease from food is good protien and adds weight quickly, however, moderation is the word on that, while it adds weight and is remarkable for the coat, its very unhealthy as it is with people, thats a treat that should be given in extreme moderation, however, my guess, it will get him eating. One last thing, if you don't already know, a sweet treat makes them happy, but absolutley NO CHOCOLATE, its poisen to them. Vanilla ice cream, peanut butter, apple sauce, all things he will love, and as a treat, its good for them, again, in moderation. These things will tempt his palette, and most likely he will learn to love eating. My dogs eat anything I put in front of them, and beg for more, they are all healthy and at their appropriate weight, active, behaved and happy. My cat on the other hand, will eat nothing but dry catfood, he won't even touch tuna, I have to force him to play or run, and regardless of what I do, or how much he's fed, he remains overweight and sluggish most of the time, but we love him, and he loves the dogs and the rats, the iguana....not so much, go figure. However, he is the oldest, aside from weight he's healthy, and hes the replacement for the last cat whom I had for just over thirty years, yes 30, I guess I've done something right!
Good Luck,
Give Duke a hug,
And let him be his own dog,
He'll be fine.
-W
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old October 24th, 2008, 10:35 AM
badger's Avatar
badger badger is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Montreal
Posts: 4,076
Tekno, after such a long and generous post, I hate to tell you that this thread is from 2006....
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old October 24th, 2008, 10:42 AM
teknotrip teknotrip is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Columbus MS
Posts: 2
Late


Wow, I guess I was a little late on the subject, didn't see the date. Well anyway, hope this advice was helpful to someone, I am so tired of hearing the ritual of how bad tablescraps are for animals, animals have taste too, and they are a lot healthier than some of the dog food on the market! Also, Hope after all this time Duke has come into his own. I noted their was someone on here that has a Pyranese/Border Collie, Wow, I thought I was alone, Thanks

Last edited by Capt. Jack; October 24th, 2008 at 11:51 AM. Reason: See below posting.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old October 24th, 2008, 11:53 AM
Capt. Jack's Avatar
Capt. Jack Capt. Jack is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 115
Personal information such as phone numbers and e-mail addresses are not allowed on the forum except on occasion with people looking for a missing pet.

Also - there is a very firm and fast rule about using the forum to rehome a pet. Only approved rescues are allowed to post animals available for adoption.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:05 PM.