Two puppies hate each other to death

[joanna]

Hi everyone

My cocker spaniel Royce, 13 weeks old, has been with us since he was 8 weeks old (so a little over a month now)
Three days ago, we went to pick up our second puppy, a 10 weeks old Gaia. She is also a cocker spaniel but a real tiny one.

Royce shows interest in his tiny sister but why does he always bump into her or dash and jump over from her behind her when they are walking around? It drives her NUTS!

He is like 10 times bigger than her and almost everything he does, like putting his paw on her or standing over her, kind of throws her off balance. He even tries to stand on top of her and HUMP Her like he does with his stuffed toys!

She then growls and tries to bite his head off when he pushes her around. I mean she tries to bite him for real. I had my hand in between them and she punctured my skin and drew blood, and she's only 3 pounds.

They do show interest and kind of explore each other but the moment it gets a tiny bit exciting, comes the end of the world with harsh growling & biting.

Should I scold Royce for his behaviors?
or Scold Gaia her for the hard core real deal biting/growling?
Just ignore them and let them settle it out?
Separate them until they are fully grown?

HELP!


Joanna
Arlington, VA

[BMDLuver]

They are both pups trying to figure out how to play with each other and establish who will be top dog. If it gets too rough, then separate both of them to allow them to settle down. Do not scold them for normal puppy behaviour. It will sort itself out and they will become friends. Your little girl is smaller so just make sure she doesn't get injured playing rough. Hang in, they will get better with each other.

BTW, welcome to the board!

[meb999]

since they are so young, some rough play is to be excpeted. Sounds to me like Royce is trying to show her that he's top dog. I would let them play with each other until things get too rough, then seperate them for a bit. They'll soon learn that rough play = no more play!
Good luck!

[meb999]

I' d looove to see some pics of the puppies (I'm a sucker for puppies!!)

[StaceyB]

Having 2 puppies is more than twice the work. I would get both enrolled into puppy class.
The puppies do need to learn the rules of play. It should not be a free for all. The best way to know what to allow is not to allow them to do things to each other that you would not allow them to do to a child. No closed mouth nipping, only open mouth. If they start to get too rough or start to nip or growl, remove the puppy until the puppy calms and if it continues it is removed from play for that session.

[Lucky Rescue]

Getting two very young puppies so close in age is not recommended, but since you already have them, make sure you separate them a lot, with little play periods in between.

Training, walking and playing with each separately will be a LOT of work, but it's necessary.

[Beetlecat]

I have been watching a litter of puppies grow up (periodically visiting) and I have seen the mothers way of dealing with this.

When there is a pup being even a little bit aggressive with another, she quickly puts her paw between them, seperating them. Or she will put her paw on top of the aggressve one, pinning him down for a moment, while she stares at him.

And if he still doesn't get the hint, she will begin to stand over him, with her teeth at his neck, and if he does anything other than lay down and submit, then she will snap at him. This is exactly the same way she deals with other (older) dogs that are not respecting her. The pups are ususally quite upset, but they are not at all hurt, and she will comfort them afterwards.

By now, she can probably quell any agruments with just a look, as the pups know what will be coming up if they don't listen the first time.

I agree with her, about not letting them fight at all. These two little ones have to learn that the only way they can interact together is to be friendly. They can settle rank through non violent ways.

Makw them two seperate areas to play in, and treat the time they come together as an extra 'treat' (rather than a routein thing) and the second there is harassment, seperate them again.

I believe that dogs learn violence through interaction with others. If they are never played with roughly, harassed, or attacked by other dogs, then they never try doing the same things to dogs they meet. And so are easier to get along with as far as dog/dog interaction goes.

[Prin]

Sounds like you got two dominant pups... It'll eventually work itself out, but definitely separate them when they get too rough. You'll have to learn how to be the unchallengable alpha in your home. The quicker you learn that, the quicker these two will learn that it doesn't matter who is on top between them because it's all you.

[joanna]

Thank you so much for your advice.

Yes I just learned that it is not wise to get two young puppies at once the hard way. This morning, Royce bit Gaia's ears and the tip was bleeding We had done so much research on breeders/health but no one advised us against getting 2 puppies.... One breeder even recommended it.

Anyhow... Since early morning I separated them as soon as things started to get rough and by noon they cuddled next to each other while chewing on their goodies. I guess they don't hate each other.

This is what I just found. I guess I didn't lock the cage properly. Gaia pushed it from the outside and crawled in there.
They have their own crates and sleep separately. I was just surprised to find Gaia wanting to enter Royce's crate.

I will monitor and separated them when it comes to rough playing. Hopefully they will learn to play nicely.

Thank you everyone
Joanna

p.s. I posted an introduction and some pictures in the intro folder.

[StaceyB]

I would say that one(older) has had an opportunity to have some experience in play with others where the other(younger) one has had no experience and doesn't know how to take the older ones play tactics.

[tenderfoot]

Please do not crate them together - this could make thing worse and then they can't escape each other.
Older boy is pushing younger one around and the younger one is willing to say no to that. You as the parent have the right to step in and correct them both for their poor choices. He needs to learn to back off and she needs to learn not to over react.

[mastifflover]

Definitely get them out of the same crate because you could come home to something terrible. They need there own space. Eventually your female will run the show but in the meantime just be vigilant they do not get to rough and if they do as said before seperate them and never punish other than a firm no leave (her or him) they will work it out. Good luck

[chico2]

If I am not misstaken,the poster has two crates,but just for this instance one wanted to be with the other..awfully cute:love:

[joanna]

chico2 is right..

I would NEVER put them in the same crate.
They sleep in their own crates during the day and at night.
It just so happens that the little one pushed and budged her way through the big one's crate.

....and here I was thinking they hated each other.

I think it's Royce's play tactics that are too aggressive for tiny Gaia.

Just an update:

Now, they play well separately, next to each other, with toys or chewies. I feed them breakfast and lunch next to each other and eating time goes well too.

It's just them biting each other that creates trouble because Royce goes straight for her ears. Then comes mommy to separate them.

joanna