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  #1  
Old December 19th, 2005, 11:47 PM
tdivalentin tdivalentin is offline
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Uncontrolled urination

Hi. This is my first post, so if I screw it up, please understand.

We have a 5 month old female pup who was spayed at the "no kill shelter" when she was between 8-10 weeks old. The puppy with 6 brothers and sisters and her mother was found in a box that had been thrown into a trash dumpster. We couldn't resist bringing her home and have loved her since.

From the time we brought her home she urinated 5 or 6 times every hour. At first, we thought it was just that she was too young to house train, but now at 5 months old she still urinates as often (but now her puddles are much larger since she is bigger). She loves to drink water, so we tried to restrict her water intake, but have other dogs who use the same bowl so it is hard to keep water away all the time.

We take the puppy outside whenever we suspect she has to go. She goes, and then 10-15 minutes later urinates while she is walking around the house. Often she urinates down the stairs as she is running to go out the door.

Vet has done various tests, the latest showed the dog's urine was almost totally clear with very little urine odor. The Vet tells us this means our dog cannot concentrate urine.

I've asked if diabetes is possible, and the Vet agreed to test for that. Although she is just a "pound pup" we really want to keep this dog, but cannot if she urinates uncontrolably in the house.

Do you have any ideas or suggestions?

Thank you in advance for any advice you have.

Tony
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  #2  
Old December 19th, 2005, 11:53 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Just so you know, a LOT of us have second-hand dogs and we'd never refer to them as "just a pound pup"... Regardless of the pedigree, every dog deserves an equal chance at a good home and deserves having great care and love too.

The only way to fix this is to keep working with your vet to find out the cause. This is definitely not a training issue and in my opinion, no problem ever warrants removing or limiting the water supply. If you believe in your vet, you will eventually find the reason for this and then you can work on fixing it.

Good luck.
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  #3  
Old December 20th, 2005, 09:17 AM
jawert1 jawert1 is offline
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Hi tdivalentin, I also have a dog who is unable to concentrate his urine and essentially, you need to have an ACTH test run to rule out Cushings or Addisons disease. Also, you can have the vet do a monitored water deprivation test, this will prove/disprove psychogenic polydipsia, diabetes melitus or diabetes insipidus. With the exception of diabetes melitus, the other diseases are fairly rare, but you need to get your pup tested no matter what given she's having these issues. My vet did a prescription diet change, which yours may also, which included giving my pointer additional urine acidifiers and now sphincter control meds (like for spay incontinence). Please keep on the vet to do more testing, your pup can live a very normal happy life with you, but you need to get to the root of the problem so you can overcome it.
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  #4  
Old December 20th, 2005, 12:09 PM
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CJ05 CJ05 is offline
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Did your vet rule out a possible urinary tract infection?
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  #5  
Old December 20th, 2005, 01:41 PM
Inverness Inverness is offline
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This could also be post-spaying incontinence which would have to be treated with Propalin.

I agree with Prin ! Just because this is a "pound puppy" does not mean she is not entitled to the same kind of care and expensive purebred would receive ! Give her a chance, you'll be happy you did that for her !
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  #6  
Old December 20th, 2005, 04:30 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Propalin is freaking expensive (the little bottle is like $90). For spay incontinence, I find that the hot pink estrogen pills work better. Jemma has it and she gets one pill a week which costs me $30/year.
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  #7  
Old December 20th, 2005, 05:24 PM
Inverness Inverness is offline
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Oestrogen supplementation has been known to cause marrow bone suppression and anemia in some dogs (and people), which is why Propalin is considered a safer drug. I didn't know it was expensive though - sorry about that !
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Old December 20th, 2005, 06:11 PM
t.pettet t.pettet is offline
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uncontrolled urination

Is this condition (incontinence) a direct consequence of early spay? Anyone have any info. on med. conditions associated with young pup/kitten spay/neuter?
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  #9  
Old December 20th, 2005, 11:12 PM
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Shaykeija Shaykeija is offline
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Have your vet check for renal failure.
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  #10  
Old December 20th, 2005, 11:38 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inverness
Oestrogen supplementation has been known to cause marrow bone suppression and anemia in some dogs (and people), which is why Propalin is considered a safer drug. I didn't know it was expensive though - sorry about that !
Actually, there is one estrogen drug that caused significant bone loss and all that but the other one is not as bad. My vet discontinued use of the other one- I can't remember the name of it, but the safer one is the hot pink pills.
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  #11  
Old December 21st, 2005, 12:09 AM
tdivalentin tdivalentin is offline
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Urination

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inverness
This could also be post-spaying incontinence which would have to be treated with Propalin.

I agree with Prin ! Just because this is a "pound puppy" does not mean she is not entitled to the same kind of care and expensive purebred would receive ! Give her a chance, you'll be happy you did that for her !

Thanks for your input. While Fay is "just a pound puppy" in our hearts she already is a precious as any purebred dog we've owned in the past. Your thread and others gives us information we can bounce off our current vet to be sure we are attacking the problem from all angles. We really want to have Fay with us for many and many years to come.

Thank you for your help
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  #12  
Old December 21st, 2005, 12:16 AM
tdivalentin tdivalentin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ05
Did your vet rule out a possible urinary tract infection?
During earlier visit couple weeks ago pup was tested for urinary tract infection which came out negative. Since then have done specific gravity test (don;t remember numbers, but Vet said it was almost pure water). I've asked for diabetes test as well as a constrast urine test--as long as there is a chance for a positive result we will do whatever it takes to get our puppy healthy!

Seeing Vet in morning to discuss possible exploratory surgery. Not too hep on that, but perhaps vet can convince us.

Thanks for your input.

Tony
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  #13  
Old December 21st, 2005, 08:17 AM
jawert1 jawert1 is offline
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Unless there is evidence of stones or a growth somewhere in her body and/or brain, exploratory surgery is kind of risky. Has the vet even suggested a dietary change? With Simon, my vet hasn't even broached that topic and his specific gravity was at 1.003. Thanks for keeping on your vet with this, I know it's a pain to step in wet carpet, but in the long run, your pup will be a much healthier critter
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  #14  
Old December 21st, 2005, 05:41 PM
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CJ05 CJ05 is offline
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What happend to the mother and the other pups? Did they find homes? It sickens me to think that people are irresponsible and cruel to do such a thing instead taking the (innocent) animals to a shelter where they can be cared for. I hope whoever is responsible is caught and brought to justice.
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  #15  
Old December 22nd, 2005, 11:08 AM
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Dog Dancer Dog Dancer is offline
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Mom and six siblings

Actually the OP did mention that there were six siblings and the mother abandoned (dropped) in a dumpster. Poor puppies, I also hope the others found such caring homes. Good luck with the puppy - stay the course - my two "pound puppies" were and continue to be worth the expense of multiple health and behavior issues. But eight and five years down the road I wouldn't swap them for anything.
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  #16  
Old December 22nd, 2005, 07:18 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inverness
Oestrogen supplementation has been known to cause marrow bone suppression and anemia in some dogs (and people), which is why Propalin is considered a safer drug. I didn't know it was expensive though - sorry about that !
I talked to my vet today about this while I was there... He said that Propalin is a relatively new drug so if there are no side effects, it's because they just don't know about them yet. While DES (the hot pink pills) has been used for years and years, it does cause marrow suppression in some dogs (it's incredibly, incredibly rare...) but they don't know why. It has nothing to do with the dose the dog was getting. It just happens. But since it's been around a lot longer, more is known about its effects. Funny thing is, DES is still not a doggy drug. It's for humans and vets have been prescribing it for doggies forever.

But for price, DES used to be $15 for a bottle of 28 pills and now the same bottle has gone up to $30 and they expect it to go up again (they don't know why it's getting so expensive). If it goes up again and you give more than one every 4 days, then the Propalin ends up cheaper. I give Jemma a pill every 5 or 6 days, but if it gets any more frequent than that, I'm going to switch.

So ya, I just thought I'd share that. Thanks for bringing it up, Inverness.
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