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  #1  
Old November 1st, 2005, 01:03 PM
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Exclamation Walking Joey at 5am is it safe

I walk Joey every morning at about 5am before I leave for work at 6. Its become our routine pretty much every morning and Joey goes to wait by the door.
There was two times that I actually got a bit freaked out once when a guys truck had appeared to broken down on the side of the road. We walked past on the way home and I got an uneasy feeling. Joey never barks at people but this time he freaked out at this guy, not sure if it was him or the vibe Joey got from me. The other time was I saw a man with a plastic bag come out of the side of our neighbours house. I actually just assumed it was their tenant as they rent out their basement suite. I took Joey on his usual route then when I was walking back he was waiting by the school just standing their with his plastic bag. That really freaked me out too, because now I am thinking that he actually followed me. I didnt have any other choice but to walk past him to get back home, and I didnt have my phone on me either. Now I carry my phone just in case.

Our town actually has a pretty high crime rate per capita, higher than Vancouver. Our neighbourhood is about 4 miles from downtown I generally dont have a problem and only walk Joey where the lights are but now I am getting paranoid and hubby friends etc...are all telling me that I shouldnt walk my dog so early. I suppose I could walk him just in our subidivision but there is nowhere for him to do his business and I would hate for someone to see Joey going on their lawn (even though I clean it up) people in our neighbourhood can be anal about stuff like that because they all have perfect lawns.

Anyways I am not planning to stop walking him before work, but I am a bit paranoid now and wonder what I should do in case a situation arises and we are in danger.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 06:00 PM
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I used to worry the same thing walking my dog in the early morning before it's bright out.

What I did was ... take different routes not always the same exact one, walk with confidence and stay alert, pay attention to everything and look like you're paying attention ... I have to fight the urge to daydream sometimes

Carrying your phone is a good idea - and if you get a creepy feeling call your husband - or even pretend to call your husband so that you look "connected"

With my old dog I think I caused her to become leash aggessive because we moved into a different area and I was really nervous walking her and slowly she started getting growly at people and dogs we passed. I'm pretty sure she could sense my tension so with my dogs now I try to stay calm and hopefully keep them calm too
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Old November 1st, 2005, 06:08 PM
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Joey -- I agree with what les is saying, but keep a few things in mind. I'm not familiar with the area you are from, but I am from a rather large, high crime city -- Philadelphia (or Filfthydelphia once you breathe and smell the air -- ahhhhh!). Anyway, my point is trust your gut feeling. If you don't feel it's safe, follow how you feel. Don't question it and think it won't happen to me or I've been this way a thousand times. Just worry about your and your baby's safety and if it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. Make sure you are completely aware to everything going on around you and also if you do pass someone, make sure you make eye contact with them and make sure your eyes are strong. Most attackers won't proceed once they make eye contact. It almost threatens them. Just a few tips from a city girl. Good luck and be safe.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 06:18 PM
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I too walk early in the morning/late at night. (Sometimes I'll be walking Layla at 3:30 am) I've had some pretty creepy run ins, usually involving men approaching me, trying to get me to come home with them or them wanting to come home with me They usually use Layla as an excuse to stop and talk; I try to keep on walking and just ignore them (If they really want to meet my dog, they can wait until the day time) but because Layla loves EVERYONE, she milks the attention, and the men get a chance to stop me. I've also had two people bend down to pet layla, and in the process unclip her leash, pick her up and try and run away with her (fortunately, they were drunk both times, and ended up just tripping over their own feet )
Unfortunately, because I live alone, there's no one waiting for me when I get back, but I do carry my cell with me so that I can call a friend if something happens. Also, before I go out, I send an IM to a couple of friends and tell them that I've gone to walk Layla, and if I don't IM when I get back, to call my house when they see the message, and if I don't answer, get concerned. Not much I know, but it's a little comforting knowing that there is someone that at least knows I'm out.
Also, a habbit I still have from when I was 12 is to walk with my keys between my fingers, just makes me feel a little safer.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 06:19 PM
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I say walk at a different time. Your doggy is not big enough to really protect you and it's only going to get darker and darker at 5 AM. I think you can also think about changing the time you feed your doggy, so that he doesn't have to do more than a pee in the mornings...

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Old November 1st, 2005, 06:31 PM
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Puppyluv, keeping your keys between your fingers and also the IM to your friends to your whereabouts and timing is very smart and definitely crucial for someone living by themself. I'm not an authority on this subject, but I do have some real advice to give you because not only am I from a large city as stated below, but I also have a brown belt in Karate and have been to numerous self-defense classes. One thing I didn't mention below is that it's a good idea to have your cell phone with you for emergencies, but not a good idea to be on it because people have a tendency to not pay attention to their surroundings when they are on the phone. The most important thing is to know your surroundings, follow your gut, be safe, have some kind of self defense weapon like your keys between your fingers and also make sure someone knows your whereabouts. Hopefully this helps.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 06:36 PM
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I dont feed Joey in the morning my husband or kids feed him when he gets up. I am thinking of just walking up and down our street now, at least if something happened I could scream and someone would hear me and I would be close to home, Most of our neighbours are asleep so they won't see me picking up the poop off of their lawns.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 06:56 PM
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Do you feed him at night? Maybe feeding him a little earlier in the evening might make him go before bed instead of the morning? Or better yet, feed him 2/3 in the morning and 1/3 at night at the usual time (that way he won't throw up because of having an empty belly...
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Old November 1st, 2005, 07:06 PM
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Only recently while I was out of province my girlfriend had just started walking our one dog (the big one) at a reservoir when a car stopped, the passenger pointed up at her and the car pulled over in front of her parked car. Then they came up two separate paths towards her, one on each side. She called the police and yelled down that she had 911 online and police were on route. They left.

She is convinced they were either after the dog or after the Lexus but for some reason not her. I canít believe that somebody would come after somebody with an eighty pound dog but I have to believe her that it was threatening as they came up on both sides of her and there was no reason for that.

Carry a cell (charged), carry a whistle and yell FIRE, carry dog repellent (how did that go off?) and walk in well-lit areas.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 08:49 PM
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When I was younger, single and living on my own in Vancouvers' westend in a ground floor apartment my mom bought me some pepper spray. I never used it but if I was walking home alone at night I had it in my hand with my finger ready to press the trigger. I never used it and eventually threw it out several years later I wonder if I can still get some somewhere I thought it might be illegal now.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 08:51 PM
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There are always ways...
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Old November 1st, 2005, 09:00 PM
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They have it on the internet I just googled it, I think I may be able to get it at a hunting supply store too in town.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 09:56 PM
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I suggest carrying a walking stick or a Surefire flashlight.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 10:13 PM
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I personally think a flare gun would be fun...
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Old November 1st, 2005, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesse's mommy
I personally think a flare gun would be fun...
OOOOO I have one of those! The "legal alternative to fireworks" available at any boating club

I used to have pepper spray on a key chain, but it exploded (thank goodness in my bag, and not on anyone)

I find in the winter, because I'm tall, I can just bundle up and look pretty big and intimidating, but in the summer, there was no way to hide the fact that I have a slight frame, Essentially, the colder it is, the safer I feel.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prin
Your doggy is not big enough to really protect you
I have no doubt in my mind that Joey would do everything in his power to protect her.And with a bit of damage too....

When I'm on days,I take Tron out at around 2:30am.And I do know how to protect myself.This of course was part of my training.And part of Trons training also.

I agree with what others have said.

Know your surroundings.
Have your phone on and with you.
Definately a whistle.
Direct eye contact.
Piece of paper and pen(just in case you need a licence plate number)

And yes,peper spray is illegal...Has been for some time.


I also suggest you just stay in your area.Walk the same block a couple of times.A 15-20 min walk will be ok for him.He can have his longer walks later on.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
I suggest carrying a walking stick or a Surefire flashlight.
Well I googled surefire flashlights as I wasnt sure what they were, I ended up ordering the G2 costs about $54 Canadian but at least I will be safer on my walks. My hubby can also to take it to work at night, they have had some break ins at night behind the restraunt so at least he can be safe too.

Mona B
Quote:
I have no doubt in my mind that Joey would do everything in his power to protect her.And with a bit of damage too....
Actually I am impressed with Joeys behaivior when it comes to protecting us.My husband came home the other night I didnt hear him come in, but Joey gave a pretty good warning bark. He stopped and wagged his tail as soon as he saw my husband. He also barks if someone is at the door. So I know if an intruder came in Joey would definatley make some noise. I wouldnt put him at risk though especially if the person had a gun or knife on them.

Also I took a year of Muay thai kickboxing where you actually go in a ring and throw punches and kicks at one another, I might start up again just to brush up my skills you never know.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
I say walk at a different time. Your doggy is not big enough to really protect you and it's only going to get darker and darker at 5 AM. I think you can also think about changing the time you feed your doggy, so that he doesn't have to do more than a pee in the mornings...
Joey gets fed around 7 or 8am then again about 5 or 6pm

its not so much the pee thing I can put him in the backyard do to that. He is in his crate all night so in the morning I feel he needs to stretch his legs a bit. I have also gotten him into routine I would just hate to take it away from him. I will be so much safer when I have my superbright blinding G2 flashlight.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey.E.CockersMommy
PRin=


I will be so much safer when I have my superbright blinding G2 flashlight.

AND A FLARE GUN....
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Old November 1st, 2005, 11:38 PM
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and the pepper spray, its illegal but I can still get it on the internet, along with stun guns that look like cell phones/or maybe they are cell phones, hate to press the wrong button on that one. I can just see myself hauling all this stuff to take Joey for his 5am walks.
So after I blind the bad guy with my G2 superbright blinding flashlight, then give him a doze of pepper spray I can set off my flare gun, just so everyone knows where this bad guy is. I can safely walk home with my walking stick ready for anything else that may come my way.
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Old November 1st, 2005, 11:41 PM
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Some people won't respond to screaming, a whistle may help to get attention really quick. All the other tips were really good, I'm taking notes in case crime comes to my small neck of the woods, kidding. Actually one time my mom and I were walking the dogs in broad daylight and we were followed by two guys and one of them kept talking at us, he was really rude too. Since then I don't walk the dog without my cell phone and I have emergency numbers programmed in in case I forget the number for 9-1-1. We weren't followed where I live but I'm careful anyway.
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 01:56 AM
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I say if you have to program 911, program it on #5. #5 usually has little bumps to orient yourself when you can't see, so you would be able to find it easily. Also make sure your keypad isn't locked..

Hey how about "Bear spray"- is that legal? Maybe there are a lot of bears in your area. You don't see them, but you hear them at night, right?
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 08:26 AM
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Isn't bear spray the same as pepper spray, maybe I could just carrry a bottle hairspray.
Today I walked Joey on the grassy area at the high school its right accross the street from my house and I can see my house the whole time. Then I walked him up and down my street that is well lit too, he ended up pooping on a special landscaped area on some rocks so it was easy to clean up.
I think I will do this from now on so at least I am close to home or close to a house if something were to happen.
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 09:45 AM
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I also walk Buddy at odd hours sometimes 4:00am sometimes later but I do have an advantage Bud's size intimidates most people he looks tough but that is about it. But I have seen this mild mannered dog totally change his posture when he sees someone that he is not comfortable with or if someone gets to close to me especially if they are approaching from behind he constantly turns to watch them. But even having 160 pound dog I still always carry my phone with me and I do that key thing too, something my mom taught me and has always stuck with me and I don't go anywhere without my mag light. I try and be very aware of what is going on around me especially at the hours when there are few others out. And yes your dog senses your tensness right down his leash and probably puts him on alert because as we know our babies are very intune with us. But I find most people are much more wary of people with dogs, well what would you expect from about cowards.
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 10:02 AM
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Something to think About

So it would appear that everyone replying lives in an urban setting... But, all that is said applies to rural settings as well.

Charley and I walk when ever I feel like it, be it day or night, light or dark. I like to think that walking with my shoulders square and head held high tells others not to bother me. In reality, the fact that I stand 6 feet tall, wear clothes than make me look wider than I am and usually have a cell phone on my belt and flash light in hand (when dark) is the more likely deterrent (even if I am a woman), Charley and his 10 lbs certainly aren't.

Walking at my parentís house, to me anyways, is much more risky, and the chances of meeting anyone are slim to none... Its the animals there you have to worry about (fox, skunks, racoons, bear, weasels, etc) and none of them like to be startled so I whistle as I walk, I walk loudly and carry a big stick.

And I'd have to say, if I had my choice between a bear with her cubs or a rabid fox, and some dude who looks not quite right, I'd have to take the dude... But I think that the same thinking applies... Talk loudly to yourself, carry a phone and a whistle, but don't act affraid, both the dog and the strager will be able to pick up on that.

Last edited by PetFriendly; November 2nd, 2005 at 10:05 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 01:21 PM
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It isn't always dangerous and scarey at night. A lot of attacks do happen during daylight hours. Always make sure that someone knows your route and how long you will be. If you can, do carry a cell phone. I never leave mine at home. Make sure that you are always aware of what is going on around you and look like you are not easily intimitaded. Don't look like an easy target. Try to stay in an area that is frequented by people and not secluded or dark.

I've had a few incidents during the day. I've been followed many times. There was this one time that I had taken Misty to the vet and had no choice but to park my car in a parking lot that I really didn't like. When I was walking with Misty back to my car I noticed a man staring at me. He really creeped me out. He started to walk towards me and I could hear Misty start to growl. I had never heard her do that before. I managed to open my car door and throw my purse in the back seat and let Misty in. The guy backed up when he noticed that my purse was now right next to my dog who didn't particularly like him. The whole time Misty was in my car she kept her eyes on him and growled in that deep, low angry growl. I never once thought that she would do that. She only stopped when she could no longer see him and then she placed herself between the front seats next to me. I have no doubt that she would have tried to protect me in any way she could.
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 01:43 PM
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I can relate. Now that we have changed the clocks, It is dark in the morning when we walk and dark when we walk after work. I am not so much worried about attacks (except other dogs), becuase I live in the middle of nowhere, but I am always scared people will not see me walking on the road. I have a jacket with reflectors all over the sleeves and back, and Roxy has a little flashlight that I clip on her collar ring. For me right now, I have no choice walk when it is dark, or don't walk at all.
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 02:04 PM
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There are alot of great tips.
I have lived in Toronto particularly scarborough and have been followed, flashed 3 times and masturbated in front of at least 3 times, one being a repeat offender (dont mean to be crude just telling a story). One incident will still get me worked up till this day.
And the more I talk to other women the more I find they have the same stories. I am sure all of us can recite one incident that they knew they were in danger.

This email I found very helpful. PLEASE READ IT!


A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed on what they look for in a potential victim and here are some interesting facts:

1) The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. They are most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or other hairstyle that can easily be grabbed. They are also likely to go after a woman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.

2) The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for women who's clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around to cut clothing.

3) They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they are off guard and can be easily overpowered.

4) The time of day men are most likely to attack and rape a woman is in the early morning, between 5 and 8:30 a.m.

5) The number one place women are abducted from/attacked at is grocery store parking lots. Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number three is public restrooms.

6) The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman and quickly move her to a second location where they don't have to worry about getting caught.

7) Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 year sentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years.

8) If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after you isn't worth it because it will be time-consuming.

9) These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas, or other similar objects that can be used from a distance, in their hands. Keys are not a deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to use them as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these criminals you're not worth it.

10) Several defense mechanisms he taught us are: If someone is following behind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a question, like 'what time is it,' or make general small talk, 'I can't believe it is so cold out here,' or 'we're in for a bad winter' etc. Now you've seen their face and could identify them in a lineup, you lose appeal as a target.

11) If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of you and yell 'Stop' or 'Stay back!' Most of the rapists this man talked to said they'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed that she would not be afraid to fight back. Again, they are looking for an EASY target.

12) If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of it and carries it with him wherever he goes,) yelling 'I HAVE PEPPER SPRAY' and holding it out will be a deterrent.

13) If someone grabs you, you can't beat them with your strength but you can by outsmarting them. If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinch the attacker either under the arm between the elbow and armpit or in the upper inner thigh -- HARD. One woman in a class said she used the underarm pinch on a guy who was trying to date rape her. She was so upset she broke through the skin and tore out muscle strands and the guy needed stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you can stand it - it hurts.

14) After the initial hit, always go for the groin. I know from a particularly unfortunate experience that if you slap a guy's parts it is extremely painful. You might think that you'll anger the guy and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause a lot of trouble. Start causing trouble, and he's out of there.

15) When the guy puts his hands up to you, grab his first two fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much pressure pushing down on them as possible.. The instructor did it to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and both knuckles cracked audibly.

16) Of course, the things we always hear still apply. Always be aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and if you see any odd behavior, don't dismiss it, go with your instincts. You may feel a little silly at the time, but you'd feel much worse if the guy really was trouble.
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 09:10 PM
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Joey.E.CockersMommy Joey.E.CockersMommy is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hot and sizzling Okanagan BC
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Well I do have a few things going for me, I dont have long hair and never wear a pony tail or bun, someone could grab a small handfull of it, but then I dont really want to shave my head.
When I was taking my kick boxing I was told to go for the adams apple, and a good push kick to the upper thigh. I am also on the tallish side 5,8 and well bundled up in the morning, perhaps I will carry an umbrella too in case I need a weapon. So with my new flashlight and new route I am feeling more confident on my morning walks.
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Old November 2nd, 2005, 10:31 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
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You could wear a tuque? I always do when I'm out late so that I look more like a dude.

Thanks for posting those Luvmypit. I think in general they are good, except if the rapist intends to kill you, then if you see his face, he won't care.

That was the thing with the bus stop rapist in Montreal. He wasn't out to kill, and all the women saw him, but they still couldn't catch him for the longest time.
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