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  #1  
Old October 6th, 2005, 02:11 PM
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Unhappy Spencer and his food

Ok, so I just got a call back from the vet about Spencer's ear infections. She said that it could be caused by an allergy to his food which is not allowing for the ear infection to clear up and suggested that I put him on either Royal Canin Hypoallergenic HP or Science Diet Hill's ZD. I looked on the net and can not find a list of ingredients that are in either of these foods.

I currently have him on Eukanuba KO which didn't really help with his scratching. We have also started to give him treats again because we were convinced that his allergy was to the grass. I guess not.

Just when I had my mind made up that I was going to put him on Merrick's Puppy Plate and she told me that it will not help at all. I need something specific for his problem.

Please help!
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Old October 6th, 2005, 02:15 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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What grains has your doggy already had, and what other foods have you tried?
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Old October 6th, 2005, 02:18 PM
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I'd say try "Ocean Blue" from Timberwolf Organics but it's incredibly hard to find.
TimberWolf Organics Product list

I'll keep looking.
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Old October 6th, 2005, 02:19 PM
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I have tried Nutro Ultra Puppy, Nutro Puppy Lamb & Rice, Medi-cal Hypoallergenic, and Eukanuba KO.

The vet said something about the RC being that the proteins are broken into their smallest molecules so it can not cause an allergy. It is better than just the plain hypoallergenic stuff that I already tried. I forget what she said about the ZD. Way too much info at once for me to take it all in.
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Old October 6th, 2005, 02:53 PM
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Do you know if the problems are being caused by the grains or the proteins? If it is the protein, try something with venison, duck or vegan. My parents' dog has really bad food allergies, and has done well on all of these:
http://www.oldmotherhubbard.com/dogs..._overview.html
http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/pro...egetarian.html
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  #6  
Old October 6th, 2005, 02:53 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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How old is Spencer? Do you still want puppy food?
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Old October 6th, 2005, 03:06 PM
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How about the Wolf Cub? I know I've mentioned it a million times already, but I just spoke with one of the "nutritionists" at Solid Gold, and he said that there really isn't much of a difference between the Wolf Cub and the other puppy formulas they have for all doggies. I'm inclined to believe him because like I said in another thread, kibble isn't made specifically for giant doggies, and the specificity of large breed foods would be so wide that you could basically feed it to any doggy...

I just think that the Nutro has way more grains than the Wolf Cub has, so you might have more success with the Wolf Cub or Just a Wee Bit (depending on if you want puppy or adult).

Wolf Cub

You could also ask your vet to do allergy tests, which would eliminate all the wondering.
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Old October 6th, 2005, 03:16 PM
LoNScamp LoNScamp is offline
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Question

I've been reading a lot of threads lately re food being a problem for dogs. In each thread where allergies, skin problems, eye problems etc. are mentioned the dog is on a commercial food and usually not one of the high quality foods. I can't ever remember seeing a thread where a dog on home cook or raw has had problems. Anyone know of any?
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Old October 6th, 2005, 05:03 PM
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Spencer is almost 11 months old so I could go with Adult food.

As for the raw food diet, I have asked many times for someone to explain it to me, I have read books on it and also asked the vet about it. My old vet didn't really recomend it as it is difficult to keep it balanced with all of the vitamins and nutrients that are needed for dogs. I was told that Kibble is a safer way to go but that ultimitely it was my choice.

I considered the cooked food diet but real food and I could never really get my head wraped around it.

To me, Eukanuba KO is not a bad food. I was actually quite impressed with the ingredients and it is recomended by vets. It's not like you can go to Walmart and buy it or anything.
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  #10  
Old October 6th, 2005, 08:12 PM
Prin Prin is offline
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It's hard to say how many people whose dogs are on raw see allergy symptoms because there just are not as many on raw as there are on crap kibble. If your dog is allergic to wheat and you feed wheat, whether it's through kibble or through raw, you will see allergies. I think that people on raw are more educated about feeding dogs in general than those feeding Pedigree or Iams. You can't really compare.

Grover, is an allergy test possible? Do you have any idea what part of the food he is allergic to?
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  #11  
Old October 6th, 2005, 09:53 PM
LoNScamp LoNScamp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prin
It's hard to say how many people whose dogs are on raw see allergy symptoms because there just are not as many on raw as there are on crap kibble. If your dog is allergic to wheat and you feed wheat, whether it's through kibble or through raw, you will see allergies. I think that people on raw are more educated about feeding dogs in general than those feeding Pedigree or Iams. You can't really compare.

Grover, is an allergy test possible? Do you have any idea what part of the food he is allergic to?
I realize that Prin, that was in part why I was curious as to whether or not anyone was aware of these symptoms with dogs on raw or home cooked. Thanks for your input.
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Old October 6th, 2005, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoNScamp
I realize that Prin, that was in part why I was curious as to whether or not anyone was aware of these symptoms with dogs on raw or home cooked. Thanks for your input.
I think we'll know more in a few years when people really do start feeding better and better and educating themselves more. If somebody makes a honestly really good kibble, I don't see how it could be any different than raw. I guess the closest thing to that right now are those ridiculously expensive hamburger patties you can buy that are completely balanced..
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  #13  
Old October 7th, 2005, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prin
Grover, is an allergy test possible? Do you have any idea what part of the food he is allergic to?
I haven't really asked the vet about that but I was told by someone before that it would be around $1,000. Is this true?
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Old October 7th, 2005, 08:19 AM
Prin Prin is offline
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My vet said $300-400.
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Old October 7th, 2005, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prin
My vet said $300-400.
My vet charges $280 to test for food allergies and $300 to test for seasonal allergies.
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Old October 7th, 2005, 09:35 AM
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I am surprised you couldn't find the contents of the Hill's or Science Diet. When I first realized Eskimos are generatlly sensitive to corn, I Googled Hills' - not Science Diet - and all of the products were there with the ingredients. We were switching our pup to adult food just shy of 11 months and were given quite a large sample bag as supplied by Hill's - it was the small bites for teeth (funny 22 lbs. with teeth of a 50 lb. dog). But the corn! So we switched to Fromm's Four Star and no problems. Hope you get to the bottom of it. Fortunately when we had a Beagle he had absolutely no food related problems - actually if he saw one of us had say jam on out toast and his piece did not, he refused to eat it until his portion exactly matched ours. My husband would have pie with ice cream. No ice cream on Beagle's - wouldn't eat it. We did have a Lhasa who was allergic to everything, including apparently himself. He ate Lamb and Rice and had monthly shots. Ears were by far the biggest problem. It might come down to having allergy tests done. Cost would most likely run these days about $500 to $1,000 - there are always the unexpected extra little tests - visit costs etc.
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Old October 7th, 2005, 09:35 AM
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Depending on how bad his allergies are and whether or not you can afford the tests right now, it might be worth it. Food allergies can be difficult to pinpoint on a trial and error basis.
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  #18  
Old October 7th, 2005, 10:07 AM
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I would definitely go for the food allergies. That would help rule out a lot of stuff, and stop you from switching foods over and over...
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Old October 7th, 2005, 10:20 AM
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Ok, so we had booked Spencer in for the test and then I was speaking with a specialist at another clinic and she told me not to waste my money. The test for food is not accurate enough.

She told me to stay on the KO food that I have him on right now for 8 weeks with no extras and then slowly add things back into his diet. She basically told me exactly what the other vets were telling me but she explained it in words that I would actually understand.

Lets hope that we can get this all figured out so poor Spencer can get better. She did tell me however not to switch to either of the foods that my vet suggested as they still have chicken or chicken products in it and that could be what he is allergic to.
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Old October 7th, 2005, 11:35 AM
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Chicken

Grover, through my experience with Halo, who is very allergic to chicken products, I have found that I have to avoid all foods with poultry or chicken fat listed in the ingredients. The vet said that wouldn't be an issue as the protein is removed from the fat, but with Halo it did make a difference. I now avoid any food that even lists "animal fat" as that could be poultry. She also did not do well with the vegetarian diet I tried her on, like you we are struggling to find the perfect balance. I just wanted to warn you about reading the ingredients and watching for poultry fat if you suspect poultry as a trigger. Contrary to the vets advice the fat was an issue for Halo. Good luck.
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  #21  
Old October 7th, 2005, 11:58 AM
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Oh, Boo too. Any poultry and he's throwing up for a week. But I wouldn't buy anything with either "Poultry fat" or "animal fat" because you don't know what animal it is. Poultry could be any bird (even crow), and animal could be any animal, including dogs, cats, rats, etc.

Anyway, that's how I ended up on the wolf king. So many foods have chicken, it's nutty.
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  #22  
Old October 7th, 2005, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prin
Poultry could be any bird (even crow)
Thanks for the laugh, sorry it just sounds funny that they use crow. I needed that as this whole thing is really stressing me out. I guess I will try what the specialist said and go from there. I will update you all in about a week to see if things have changed at all. Thanks for the advice.
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Last edited by BeagleMum; October 7th, 2005 at 12:15 PM.
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  #23  
Old October 7th, 2005, 01:06 PM
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Lissa Lissa is offline
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Are these the one's your vet was referring to!?

http://www.walthamusa.com/Learning%2.../HP19-dry.html

http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/prod...bmLocale=en_CA

And this is the one they want you to keep him on? I had never heard of Eukanuba KO before now! How long had Spencer been on it before you started adding extras?

http://www.sunshineband.org/forums/a...ndex.php/t-545

I am a total supporter of raw and homecooked diets and I have yet to find a western vet that supports them - why would they when they must support their sponsers? I will gladly lend you my books again as its really not that difficult; time consuming yes but its not that overwhelming.

I went through this allergy nonesense with Dodger as well. Had I not had any previous knowledge of natural diets/medicine, my vet would have taken me for a very expensive ride!

I hope Spencer isn't suffering too much!
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