are wolf hybrids legal in Canada?

[Byrd]

I had a husky named Wolf... so, imagine the reactions I got. Although, he did have blue eyes....just how silly are people.

[lezzpezz]

Description
Hi,
I have recently acquired an Americain Bulldog/Wolf crossed puppy. She is seven weeks old and is brindle in colour with white paws. She has been to the vet for a deworming, first shot and heartworm and flea meds for the year. Sadly we cannot keep her as our female shihtzu will not accept her into the home. She is good with kids and cats as I have have three children and two cats. She also loves our shihtzu. We are asking the cost of the vet bill which is $260.00.She will make a loving addition and loyally protect her new owner . If you are interested please call me at ***-***-****
Sincerest Regards,
***

Should I email this guy or let it go.....

[LM1313]

I'm skeptical about the whole "my bitch got out and wolves mated with her" thing. Wolves don't like dogs (or strange wolves for that matter) in their territory; they want to protect their territory from outsiders. My father, who's from Minnesota, told me that wolves will try to lure dogs into the woods to kill them. I'm not sure if that's true; it sounds more like a coyote thing to me. But Minnesota IS the only state in the lower 48 where wolves have never been an endangered species, so who knows.

Wolves also are very specific about who in the pack is "allowed" to breed; normally only the alpha male and female breed. The only way I could picture a dog getting pregnant by a wild wolf would be if she met up with a lone wolf trying to start up his own pack.

I think a lot of "wolf hybrids" are actually malamute and husky crosses . . . If people can mistake every other dog for a pit bull, they surely could mistake a malamute mix for a wolf mix. The genuine wolf hybrids probably come from people purposely breeding them . . . Raise a wolf from a cub, breed it with a dog. Then breed the wolf hybrid from that union with another dog--the second dog would still be a wolf hybrid, but more dog than wolf. And so on.

~LM~

[erykah1310]

I believe they are, there is a kennel who i have been in contact with out west and the guy there said that most of his pups are sold to Dogsledders.
It is however next to impossible to accuire a "wolf dog" from this guy, he has STRICT demands! ( just been talking with him because i am a wolf fan not because i want one) This guy is extremely level headed and takes his work VERY seriously, again we end up in the hybrid debate (like schoodles) however, he doesnt sell F1's (first generation mixes) his are as far a F6.
They are amazing looking animals.

And exactly how far out in the wilderness do they live because wolves, healthy ones at least, are not big fans of the human race and stay as far away from us and everything about us as possible.

We have a VERY HEALTHY pack of wolves that come around once and a while during the summer ( we have been yet to see one but the majestic howls and other communication are a marvel to hear) We stand outside and just listen. ITs amazing.

We had a (what I believed to be a wolf ) standing in my driveway during the summer 2 years ago taunting my dogs. I called MNR about it and the guy was great, he got me to take some pictures and send them to him, he concluded that it was most likely a hybrid who may have used it to breed with his sled dogs and then because they are wild regardless of how much you try to tame them, the irresposible sledders dump them off thinking they will survive in the wild! I felt so bad for this beautiful animal, who would most likely starve to death ( he wouldnt have been able to join a pack)

[dogmelissa]

I hate to jump in the middle of this, cause I'm sure I'll get slammed from both sides, but I've been in love with Malamutes for many many years, and came to the conclusion almost as soon as I fell for them, that I'll never get one. Why? They are simply too big to live in the city happily and have way too high a prey-drive for me (I also love and have cats).
The one thing that came up again and again in my research was the similarities in appearance, and to some extent, the behaviour of Malamutes, Huskies and Wolves. I know that there are many many people in this country who own what is a pure-bred "wolf-type" Malamute, but were told it was a wolf-cross. I just found a post online where the person claims to have gotten an animal that is 85% wolf, 15% malamute. You tell me how that's even possible when 50% of a mammals' genes come from it's mother, and 50% come from it's father?? The second you breed a pure-wolf to a pure-dog, you're going to get 50/50!! Furthermore, since the domestic dog (all breeds) is a subspecies of the wolf (which has other subspecies), there is no way to distinguish their genes even through genetic testing. Even if you map a dog's parentage, there's no way of knowing what percentage of a 2nd or later generation cross is from the original wolf or original dog.
Regardless, there is some research on the net that people can search out to find the differences in wolfs vs wolf-dogs. I'm sure they do exist, but not nearly in the numbers that many people think or assume. One site suggested that wolves are more reactive to many medications, so if you have a dog who reacts typically to anesthetics, you probably don't have a wolf-dog.

Anyways, you might want to look at this site: http://www.wolfhaven.org/Think_Again..._i_getting.htm

Also see: http://www.malamuterescue.com/inrescue.html if you're interested in getting a dog that *looks* like a wolf, but isn't. You'd be saving a life, too. To the un-trained eye, these animals could be purebred wolves, instead they're predictable, domesticated dogs. Please consider rescue whether it's a wolf-dog, a malamute, a husky or any other breed, cross-breed or mutt.

Thanks for reading.
Melissa

[Melei'sMom]

Not Fair Melissa!!

Posting a link where I can look at mals...

We had a beautiful white mal and she went to the rainbow bridge at the age of 14. We miss her still and it has been almost 5 years since she left. We would love to have another, but that isn't possible right now.

And about the wolf cross thing...I am very sceptical about any labeled such. I am sure that Sheba was not a wolf cross, but the vet swore up and down she had to be because of her longer snout and yellow eyes. Her size didn't help my arguement either though, she was about 150 lbs (depending on the season) and her 'prey instinct' was a constant challenge. We didn't dare have another dog or cat with her. She even got a budgie out of a cage hanging from the ceiling once when she was left at home.

We had to keep her away from other domestic pets, and have a few 'stories' about stupid people wanting their dog to just be friends with her (no dogs died, but a few were injured)

She also did kill a coyote once and required some vet care for that episode.

Malamutes are probably one of the closest breeds to wolf behavior and tempermant still, and requires a knowledgable owner. Unfortunately, because of how much they look like wolves, they are often owned by people who just want a big, 'cool' dog and are destructive and dangerous because the owner doesn't know how to handle a dog with such a strong personality.

That said, despite the challenges, she was such a sweetheart that adored everyone and thought she was a lap dog. You con't help but love her and I would get another mal in a heartbeat if I had the room for one and if I didn't rent

Malamutes are defiantely my favorite breed and I just wish people would be a little more educated before attempting such a dog

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by dogmelissa

I just found a post online where the person claims to have gotten an animal that is 85% wolf, 15% malamute. You tell me how that's even possible when 50% of a mammals' genes come from it's mother, and 50% come from it's father?? The second you breed a pure-wolf to a pure-dog, you're going to get 50/50!!

to get 85% wolf and 15% dog, then both sides (mom and dad) would need to be part wolf.

Eg:
Granddam: 50% dog/50% wolf x Grandsire: 100% wolf
Dam: 75% wolf /25%dog x Sire: 100 wolf
Offspring: roughly 85/15...(87/13)...
Genetics doesn't actually work this nicely, but you get the idea...

[dogmelissa]

Originally Posted by phoenix

to get 85% wolf and 15% dog, then both sides (mom and dad) would need to be part wolf.

Eg:
Granddam: 50% dog/50% wolf x Grandsire: 100% wolf
Dam: 75% wolf /25%dog x Sire: 100 wolf
Offspring: roughly 85/15...(87/13)...
Genetics doesn't actually work this nicely, but you get the idea...

I appreciate where you're going with this, but can you check your DNA and find out how much Scottish or Irish or Portugese or... pick a nationality... is in you?? That's all that dog breeds really are, like human nationalities. And you can't do blood tests for those in humans or in dogs. Wolves and Domestic Dogs are part of the same species and you can't genetically differentiate how much of one or the other goes into anything that's not 1st generation.
Unless you want to develop a blood test that will tell me what percentages of what ethnic groups are in me, I don't think you can really argue that an animal is 85% wolf & 15% dog, or anything other than 50/50, assuming one of it's parents was an actual wolf. That point has still not been proven by many breeders.

Melissa

[dogmelissa]

Originally Posted by Melei'sMom

Not Fair Melissa!!

Posting a link where I can look at mals...

We had a beautiful white mal and she went to the rainbow bridge at the age of 14. We miss her still and it has been almost 5 years since she left. We would love to have another, but that isn't possible right now.

And about the wolf cross thing...I am very sceptical about any labeled such. I am sure that Sheba was not a wolf cross, but the vet swore up and down she had to be because of her longer snout and yellow eyes. Her size didn't help my arguement either though, she was about 150 lbs (depending on the season) and her 'prey instinct' was a constant challenge. We didn't dare have another dog or cat with her. She even got a budgie out of a cage hanging from the ceiling once when she was left at home.

<snip>
Malamutes are probably one of the closest breeds to wolf behavior and tempermant still, and requires a knowledgable owner. Unfortunately, because of how much they look like wolves, they are often owned by people who just want a big, 'cool' dog and are destructive and dangerous because the owner doesn't know how to handle a dog with such a strong personality.

<snip>

Thank you for sharing your story. I'm sorry about your loss, and I'm sorry that my posting made your heart ache. Mine did the same. I read every profile on that page, and tried to figure out how I could fit them all into my life. I can't and I know that, but I can't help but try.
The sad part is that most of those dogs are there because their owners wanted a "wolf-like" dog, or thought they could handle the temperament, and wasn't able to. Worst of all is that the dogs are the ones that end up suffering.
I think it's a shame that your vet was the one that pushed the "wolf" thing on you. If you were a less strong person, I wonder if you wouldn't have been swayed by that? I think one of the funniest things about those labels is that most wolves are actually smaller (or similar) in size (and weight) than huskies, yet it's the malamutes who get labelled more as "wolf". I guess that's just public fear again.

I hope that you are able to share your life with many many animals, even if the time isn't right to have another woo woo in your home.
Thanks for the story and support.
Melissa

[Inverness]

No matter the "percentage" of wolf in a wolf hybrid, they still are very difficult to adopt out... we retrieved Kimmy from our adoption list months ago to work on her temperament and have just started thinking about putting her back up on our available list while being very aware that she will always have "special needs" in a sense...

Isn't she gorgeous ?

[Sneaky]

Originally Posted by dogmelissa

Furthermore, since the domestic dog (all breeds) is a subspecies of the wolf (which has other subspecies), there is no way to distinguish their genes even through genetic testing.

I just wanted to say, that actually, the wolf and the domestic
dog have recently been merged into one species.
Genetic testing on wolfs and dogs reveal that dogs are indeed
the same species as wolfs, which is also revealed easily by the
fact that they can and will interbreed if the conditions are right.

It was only 14,000 years ago that the wolf became the domestic
dog, and in all likelihood, these first proto-dogs would have looked,
acted, and been almost identical to wolves, but would be
much more conducive to having to relationships with people.

There are many excellent new books on this exact topic,
as well as several on the new emerging field of EthnoCynology
(study of how dogs are involved in human culture and why),
a branch of Anthropology.

Just thought I would clear that up.

[dogmelissa]

Originally Posted by sneakypete79

I just wanted to say, that actually, the wolf and the domestic dog have recently been merged into one species.
<snip>
Just thought I would clear that up.

SneakyPete... just wanted to mention that I didn't say they were seperate species, I said they were SUBspecies of each other.
For anyone who is confused, this link should help:

http://canidae.ca/TAXA.HTM
If you're more scientifically inclined or looking for an interesting read, try this link: http://www.idir.net/~wolf2dog/dnaid.htm

Melissa

[Sneaky]

Hi there,
the thing is they arent even really a subspecies.
Theres a great article posted in my University Anthropology
department on this, wish I could remember the name.
It was discussing how the scientific community has decided
dogs be renamed from Canis Familiaris, to Canis Lupus,
as they are indeed the same species as the wolf, not a subspecies.
Next time Im over there Ill get the article name and author.

[dogmelissa]

Originally Posted by sneakypete79

Hi there,
the thing is they arent even really a subspecies.
Theres a great article posted in my University Anthropology
department on this, wish I could remember the name.
It was discussing how the scientific community has decided
dogs be renamed from Canis Familiaris, to Canis Lupus,
as they are indeed the same species as the wolf, not a subspecies.
Next time Im over there Ill get the article name and author.

Not trying to be rude, but I have a zoology degree. Dogs are not now, nor have they ever been classified as "Canis familiaris". They have *always* been listed as a subspecies of Canis lupus, or at least, since 1758 they have been. They are simply referred to as Canis familiaris because common knowledge is that they are in the same species as the wolf.
"Subspecies: a taxonomic subdivision of a species. A group of organisms whose behavior and/or genetically encoded morphological and physiological characteristics differ from those of other members of their species. Members of different subspecies of the same species are potentially capable of breeding with each other and of producing fertile offspring. However, animals of different subspecies of the same species may not interbreed even if there is no geographical impediment. Differences in appearance and behavior often prevent members of different subspecies from recognizing each other as potential sex partners. This is especially true for animals with complicated sexual rituals. Members of different species are either incapable of reproducing, or will produce infertile offspring" (from Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies).

You'll find that I do my research before I post.
Melissa

[Sneaky]

Hello Melissa,
as an anthropology major I am well aware of what
subspecies means.
Interesting that you say "Dogs are not now, nor have they ever been classified as "Canis familiaris" ",
when the 3 books I currently read this past term for my research
paper on dog and human communication all referred to the dog
as species Canis Familiaris or Canis Domesticus.
I will find that article for you soon as I can.
And no, nothing you have said comes off as rude
except for the little "You'll find that I do my research before I post",
as I also do my research as well.
-Sneaky

[phoenix]

Originally Posted by dogmelissa

can you check your DNA and find out how much Scottish or Irish or Portugese or... pick a nationality... is in you?? That's all that dog breeds really are, like human nationalities. And you can't do blood tests for those in humans or in dogs. Wolves and Domestic Dogs are part of the same species and you can't genetically differentiate how much of one or the other goes into anything that's not 1st generation.
Unless you want to develop a blood test that will tell me what percentages of what ethnic groups are in me, I don't think you can really argue that an animal is 85% wolf & 15% dog, or anything other than 50/50, assuming one of it's parents was an actual wolf. That point has still not been proven by many breeders.

Melissa

Melissa- while you can't go backwards like you're stating, you can trace pedigrees to determine %-ages. This is done in all domestically bred animals; in horses you can register part-breeds just as you can pure-breeds, and the %age of 'breed', if you will, is listed on the registry and determined by the pedigree. As a zoology major, I'll expect you to know what a pedigree is right?

[dogmelissa]

Originally Posted by sneakypete79

Interesting that you say "Dogs are not now, nor have they ever been classified as "Canis familiaris" ",
when the 3 books I currently read this past term for my research
paper on dog and human communication all referred to the dog
as species Canis Familiaris or Canis Domesticus.
-Sneaky

I stand corrected. "Canis lupus familiaris (originally classified as Canis familiaris by Linnaeus in 1758. In 1993, dogs were reclassified as a subspecies of the wolf, Canis lupus, by the Smithsonian Institution and the American Society of Mammalogists." I can see no evidence of "Canis domesticus" being anything other than a common name.

Regardless... I'm still waiting for this article.

[Prin]

I have only ever known them to be Canis familiaris... It's what they are in all my biology text books and the research papers I have read...

[dogmelissa]

Originally Posted by Prin

I have only ever known them to be Canis familiaris... It's what they are in all my biology text books and the research papers I have read...

I refuse to be beaten by the internet. I read an article that said they have been commonly called Canis familiaris for a long time, and reclassifying them to Canis lupus familiaris and using the "common" C. familiaris was still ok... and do you think I can find that article now? Nope.
I did however, find this line: "The Domestic Dog is listed by some authorities as Canis familiaris and others (including the Smithsonian Institution and the American Society of Mammalogists) as a subspecies of the Gray Wolf (i.e., Canis lupus familiaris)"
The same article was showing this breakdown:
"True dogs - Tribe Canini
* Genus Canis
o Coyote, Canis latrans (also called Prairie Wolf)
o Gray Wolf, Canis lupus
+ Domestic Dog, Canis lupus familiaris or Canis familiaris
+ Dingo, Canis dingo or Canis familiaris dingo or Canis lupus dingo.
+ many other proposed subspecies"

Should you desire to read this whole thing, you can find it at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canidae (note that the article does not state which authorities still have dogs as seperate species from wolves)

So I'm guessing that if your texts are older than 1993, it will show them without the "lupus", and if they're newer than 1993, they may or may not state that they had been reclassified. I think it's fairly common knowledge that you're talking about a dog when you say Canis familiaris or Canis lupus familiaris, so it probably isn't really as big a deal as it sounds. I don't really know why we're arguing about it. Science says that the dog is currently classified as a subspecies of the wolf. Wasn't the original question as to whether or not wolf-dogs are legal in Canada?
Melissa

[Prin]

Umm, no... My text books are really recent (i.e. I just graduated a month ago). But whatever, tomato tomahto.

[Puppyluv]

I'm not arguing that you're wrong dogmelissa, but I would be wary of using wikkipedia as a resource if its the only one you're using. It can be edited by anyone, so it isn't lways accurate.

[lezzpezz]

Regarding the keeping/breeding and selling of wolves and/or hybrids thereof, I actually called the Gov't of Ontario, 1-800-667-1940 line and asked where it is documented that this is illegal. The staff member verbally stated that it definitely IS ILLEGAL to do any of the above with wolf/hybrids. She directed me to the following site:

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/S...f41_e.htm#BK46

and under section 3, "wildlife" (this is how wolves would be classified generally, so laws here pertain to them), there are 2 subsections that pertain to a) the propagation of wildlife and b) the selling of live wildlife. BOTH ARE PROHIBITED BY LAW.

From the above website:

Propagation of wildlife
45. (1) A person shall not propagate or offer to propagate game wildlife or specially protected wildlife, or possess it for the purpose of propagation, except under the authority of a licence and in accordance with the regulations.

Buying or selling wildlife and pelts
48. (1) A person shall not buy or sell game wildlife or specially protected wildlife, including pelts, except under the authority of a licence and in accordance with the regulations.

49. A person shall not sell any animal or invertebrate that the person represents as a species of game wildlife or specially protected wildlife unless the person is authorized to sell that species of wildlife. 1997, c. 41, s. 49.

So there you have it in black and white

[Cygnet]

Pet Friendly and others who said that the majority of "wolfdogs" are just husky mixes are absolutely correct. There are a lot of people who have discovered that they can sucker people into paying lots of money for mixed huskies by calling them "wolfdogs" or "wolf hybrids." These are inevitably the folks who have what they claim (and believe) is a "high content" "wolfdog" who lives in the house, is housebroken, leaves the cat alone and is obedient.

Real wolves (and actual high content wolf/dog mixes) are HIGHLY unlikely to be able to live successfully in the house with people. The best way to tell if a picture of an alleged "high content wolfdog" really is genetically significantly wolf is to look for the chain link of the cage he lives in. If he is living in a cage (what kind of life is that for an animal bred to roam over forty square miles?), he might actually be a high content.

The notion that the traits that make a successful wolf are also traits that improve a companion animal is romantic nonsense. Wolves survive mostly by being very, very, very fearful of new things and situations. They also have a very high prey drive. They tend to seriously (and potentially dangerously) guard food and resources. Anybody who knows a thing about wolves understands that they are great as wolves--but the essence of being a wolf is being wild, not being somebody's "pet."

[Westwood]

Originally Posted by Zues is my baby

I have heard in the news I think it was a while back that having any mixed animal with a wild animal such as a wolf is not legal. It caought my attention becasue I have a pixie bob which is cross with a bobcat. but this has happened naturally though time. So I would assume that wolf/huskys are not.

I breed pixie bobs and They are not now or never have had any bobcat in them .
they have had bob cats eat them .why do breeders lie to you buyers ?
Westwood

[dartfrog]

Originally Posted by LM1313

I'm skeptical about the whole "my bitch got out and wolves mated with her" thing. Wolves don't like dogs (or strange wolves for that matter) in their territory; they want to protect their territory from outsiders. My father, who's from Minnesota, told me that wolves will try to lure dogs into the woods to kill them. I'm not sure if that's true; it sounds more like a coyote thing to me. But Minnesota IS the only state in the lower 48 where wolves have never been an endangered species, so who knows.


~LM~

I have also heard the same thing, in fact my father in law witnessed a pack of wolves trying to do this many years ago. He looked out into the neighboring field and saw the neighbors puppy trying to play with a wolf, he said the dog would run toward the wolf and the wolf would bounce just out of reach and lure him a little farther into the field. He was pretty far out there and they called and called for the dog…. The ran out there with shovels and sticks and rocks and ended up scaring the wolf away and when it ran over the bluff there was its pack waiting just out of sight presumable ready to attack the puppy…

[Wolf]

Pure wolves are illegal in all of Canada. With out a permit (zoo mainly)

Wolfdogs are illegal in Ontario.


-When people say they tie their dog up in the woods.. I just want to smack them! how stupid are they? they're setting their dog up on a death trap!
It would be VERY VERY rare for a wolf to mate with a dog-yet one outside its pack!

Most "true" wolf dogs usually come from Fur farm lines, and some have been captured in the wild.. and then bred to another..ect

This theory just.. it sickens me and anyone who tries it deserves to be the one tied up.

[Wolf]

Originally Posted by mona_b

Here is another.

Notice that the nose is much longer then a Husky.

First picture i can see wolf. Second.. umm no looks like a poorly bred husky mix imo

[Lil]

I really wonder why someone wants a wolf hybrids! They not happy in a house and could be really dangerous if in the wrong hands!

A wolf is a really really beautiful animal but is wild and a wild animal should never be in a house or backyard!

and to Huskys and Malamute.... they seem to be like cloth to alot ppl, hey i have a really cool looking dog, im important! But they are so strong in their will.... they need so much and they can be alot of work ( i know couch potato huskys also ).
Im really really glad that some ppl are smart enough to say they cant handle one BEFORE they get one

Lil

[jessleelegault]

ok to clear some things up for you lm1313 sounds like your dad knows what he is talking about a female wolf in heat will attract a dog to come to them and the other wolves from the pack will kill and eat the dog now hybrid is wolf and dog mixed i owned one a way to get the hybrid is to own a tame wolf my uncle in whitehorse does and to raise it around say a husky or whatever mix u wish and soon the female wolf/dog which ever it might be will have puppies known as hybrid wolf pups now you know also these animals behave like a dog while being a puppy but when they mature the wolf in them takes over and it doesnt help that the dog in them makes them braver it takes alot to raise any dog to become a (good)dog its on the owner if you plan on having any dog not just hybrid look up the bread do research before getting a certain breed or if its a mix find out of what most vets can tell you then research all the breeds in your dog to see what the pro's and con's are