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Old August 28th, 2005, 09:43 PM
MaggieMae MaggieMae is offline
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FIP (dry form)

Maggie is my one year old cat that has recently been diagnosed with FIP (the dry form)......first symptoms of a problem were balance issues. After extensive bloodwork, she only tested positive for corona virus......which my understanding is that most cats do test positive for that virus. She doesn't run a fever, and is alert and eating and drinking ( i have to hand feed her and give her water by means of a syringe) since she cannot stand or walk now. My vet has her on prednisone, which she has been on for a week now. Any information that anyone has will be so much appreciated. I am not willing to give up on my little baby! Thank you in advance for any info!
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Old August 28th, 2005, 10:12 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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Awww, I'm so sorry to hear this.

Usually this disease strikes kittens and very old cats, so your cat may have always had a faulty immune system.

Unfortunately, when a cat actually comes down with FIP (as opposed to being a carrier) there is no cure and the disease is typically fatal, and only supportive care can be offered.

Paralysis is often one of the outcomes of the illness, especially of the "dry" form.

I've heard of some success with the dry form using large doses of interferon to boost immune systems, but your vet would know best.

Again, so sorry!
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Old August 28th, 2005, 10:26 PM
MaggieMae MaggieMae is offline
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Question FIP (dry form)

Thank you for your post to me and your sympathy. I was really hoping for some kind of miracle! We rescued Maggie from a local shelter and she crawled right into our hearts. :love: We are willing to do anything for her, even if it means $ or just TLC to keep her comfortable. She (thankfully) doesn't appear to be in any pain. I've done a lot of research on FIP, and understand that it is fatal, but I just can't accept this right now (denial), and still wonder if there is something we can do for her. Maybe holistic medicine? Any views on this type of treatment?
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Old August 28th, 2005, 10:39 PM
MaggieMae MaggieMae is offline
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Unhappy Fip

So sorry.........wasn't quite done! Our vet actually did mention interferon if the prednisone didn't show any results. I am going to call her in the morning to update her on Maggie's responce to the prednisone. But do you think it is going to help her get well? Also, what are your thoughts on (and I really hate thinking about this), if she does pass away........letting her be a donor to try and fight this terrible disease.
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Old August 28th, 2005, 10:53 PM
Karin Karin is offline
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Please try the interferon.
Be The Kind Of Person Your Dog Thinks You Are.
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Old August 28th, 2005, 11:11 PM
MaggieMae MaggieMae is offline
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Thank you Karin for your input........we certainly will try the interferon.
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Old August 31st, 2005, 08:40 PM
justncase justncase is offline
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Collected from various sites:

FIP (Feline Infectious Peritonitis) Treatment

Toby was diagnosed with FIP in February 1998, just two weeks after he was given 3 vaccinations in one day. I thought it was too much to give to a 4 lbs kitten. But I did not say anything to the veterinarian. Now I strongly believe that the vaccination messed up his immune system. Toby had fluid accumulation in his chest. Shelley believes that a change of her cat's diet from commercial kibbles and canned food to wholesome raw food helped saved her cat.

"My introduction to homeopathy came about because my feline who had FIP, Aids and Leukemia was dying. The following remedy brought him back in 12 hours. NO JOKE. He was choking on his fluids before that and the antibiotics were useless. Haven't had much use for conventional medicine since. Anyway, if you can get a vet to order the glandulars for you, here it is: Pulsatilla, Ars. alb., Calc. flour, Silicia, Rhus tox., Flour ac., Cantharis, Carduus mar, Hepar sulph, Cell salts, Lymph, Liver, Argent. nit. - all 10x potency, 15x will do. I realize the classical homeopaths will have a fit over this. I'm sorry, this is beyond chronic and these remedies work on many different area's of the body and quickly." Lita (www.ahvma.org/referral/index.html)

Feline Infectious Peritonitis by Irene de Villiers.

There is new information about FIP and how it behaves, and which
tells us more than we knew before.

Corona virus indeed can spread from one cat to another - so is contagious
as *corona* but not as FIP.
The mutated FIP can NOT spread from one cat to another, and it has to
mutate from corona to FIP within each cat that is infected. the FIP disease
is in any case not a virus attack - it is the cat's own antibodies attacking it
and of course that too can not be handed from one cat to another.

In group situations where it might look like there is an epidemic of FIP -
the reason for the FIP looking contagious is not that it spreads from cat to
cat, but that the common factors that predispose the corona mutating to
FIP, are there for all the cats in that environment.

So we really need to look at what predisposes corona to mutate to FIP.
There is thought to be a genetic predisposition though this is currently not
*proved* one way or the other. It may just be a case of predisposition due
to genetic lack of heterozygocity (ie inbreeding depression) and thus lower
resistance in general. The details of any possible genetic predisposition
are as yet unexplained I believe.
But there is known predisposition where there is stress. Stress is the
biggest known predisposition factor for FIP.

In the past it was thought that corona virus titer would indicate likelihood
of mutation of that corona to FIP. That too is disproved. You can get high
FIP incidence with low corona titer. You can also get low FIP incidence
with high corona titer. It is the presence of stress that is the direct
correspondence item for chances of FIP - not the presence of Corona virus.
All cats have some corona virus, so theoretically, all cats can have their
corona mutate to FIP.

The problem with corona virus is that it DOES cause symptoms in many cats,
and that is of course stress inducing, in that corona can cause intestinal
problems like diarrhea. From that perspective, the stress from this can
predispose mutation to FIP. Some multi-cat homes therefore try to rid
themselves of high corona titer, or re-home high corona titer cats. I don't
go along with this - and prefer to take the approach that the true
predisposer is stress AS PERCEIVED BY THE CAT. FIP will attack by
mutating in a stressed cat even if the kindest environment is present - but
where the cat feels stressed. Some cats have a personality to stress more
easily and about different things, than other cats.

In general, cats feel stressed if there is overpopulation. rule of thumb is
one room per cat as territory - and this correlates closely with the finding
statistically, that FIP is far more prevalent where there are 7 cats or
more, than where there are less cats.

As for tests to determine presence of FIP, there are two tests n the market,
which give 95% predictive values for FIP. The one is a PCR test that looks
for mutated FIP virus (not corona virus) and which is recommended for use
to confirm FIP virus presence at autopsy rather than as a screening test.
It was developed in 1994. It will find the virus itself, and is not
dependent on antibody from an intact immune system.

The other is an ELISA test developed in 1998, using the principle of
looking for antibody to mutated FIP virus. This does depend on the immune
system being viable enough to make antibody, and is recommended as one of
the things to use to determine whether a cat has FIP, as a screening test.
It is "95% predictive" which means that it will predict a case of FIP being
present, with 95% success if the test is positive.

I have personally seen this test in use and it was accurate in prediction
for 40 out of 40 cases where I worked. It tends to find cats negative who
the vet thinks are positive - and definitely saved the life of a couple of
cats that way where I worked. I especially remember one 16 year old rather
overweight lady who looked like a wet FIP case, and who was so lethargic
as to be totally immobile. The vet was really pushing the owner to euthanize
and stop what he called the "heroic IV measures", but the owner wanted a
positive test and twice it came back negative. Sure enough, Cleo two days
later, hopped off the IV table when her hydrating session was about to
start, and next thing was other side the clinic building, feeling fine thank
you very much.

It's my opinion that this test is a great asset, and that it should be used
when FIP is suspected. I would still treat the cat for FIP symptoms
homeopathically, and use it only for diagnosis - I would never use any test
as a way to make a decision on euthanasia. That decision is for the cat to
make - they tell you when they are not enjoying life. No test does that -
but tests DO help you devise symptoms the cat may have but which they might
be unable to communicate.
Blood tests for example, will often tell you a cat is nauseous or whatever,
so you can use that rubric when repertorizing for the matching
homeopathic remedy. A positive FIP test would also trigger my wanting to
make a nosode from the fluid that is specific to the cat - and I would use
the FIP nosode treatment - the general nosode for FIP/FIV/FeLV in the

Later one can go on to specific homeopathic remedies to match symptoms,
as the case progresses.

But with alternative health, and conventional tests, there is hope for FIP
cases to live with more quality days/weeks/years than conventional
medicine can offer.
Cats have survived correct positive FIP diagnosis.

The cat's first line of defense against FIP is a cellular immune response.
This can in fact overcome FIP. The danger with FIP, happens when the
invading virus gets PAST the cellular response, to the general immune
antibody system. Once the cat's antibody system "sees" the FIp virus, it
makes antibodies to the FIP virus, and these antibodies kill the cat.
That is why traditional FIP treatment is things like cortisone that knock
out the antibody immune system. It's because the cat's antibodies to FIP
are the killer action, not the virus growing in the cat as with "normal"

But if the cat can fend off the FIP at the cellular response level (local
level of cell immunity), not the general level of antibody manufacture
through the overall immune system, then it can get rid of FIP altogether.
It's only the antibody "defense" that kills the cat who has mutated its
corona to FIP.

I hope that helps explain this horrid FIP phenomenon. You can see why a
conventional vaccine for FIP would be contraindicated, as it would teach the
body to make antibodies - and that would actually *predispose* death from
FIP if FIP got into the cat after that.

The so-called FIP vaccine that is currently available is not used by any vet
who understands this mode of death of FIP. The theory behind the vaccine, is
tat it is a non-virulent temperature-sensitive form of FIP, which they HOPE
will only get to the cellular response system, and not through to the
antibody system - they hope this from the perspective that the virus gets
into the nose where it is cool, and that the temperature-sensitive virus
will die before it gets further into the body where it can trigger antibody
manufacture (and thus death.)
Most vets consider that playing with fire.

I think the homeopathic nosode's approach of strengthening cellular immunity
and prevention of infection this way, without any fear of a virus getting in
there to be able to trigger an antibody response (since there is no virus in
the nosode), is the way to go.

That said, in a well developed case of FIP, where the symptoms may NOT be
the initial FIP symptoms, but something different in an advanced case, I
would see a real homeopath for the best way to treat those symptoms in the
specific cat.

These thoughts are mine about FIP - after my information research on FIP, my
experience at the clinic with it, and my my experience with homeopathy
principles and practice. I hope it is useful info somewhere along the line.

Finally, here is one example of a FIP case handled with homeopathy and nutrition.
It also explains the principles I apply when suggesting a homeopathic approach to FIP.

FIP Case, March 2003, using homeopathy and nutrition.
" In order to bring about a complete change in public consciousness one only needs to convince 15 percent of the human population."

Last edited by justncase; August 31st, 2005 at 08:47 PM.
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Old August 31st, 2005, 08:43 PM
justncase justncase is offline
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NOTE: Research has shown that mutant FIPV (FIP virus) arises within an
individual cat from FeCV (Feline corona virus, an enteric virus pretty much present in all cats) and is not passed from cat to cat.
Thus, we now know that cats do not "catch" FIP, but they develop it themselves from their own mutant FECV, in response to cumulative stresses: The prediusposing stresses are the real concern then in prevention of FIP and they include:
Vaccinations, surgeries, early weaning, re-homing, caging, any vaccines before 3 months of age, and especially any combination vaccines or combination of stresses on this short list of examples. It would be wise to avoid especially, any three stresses within a month - especially in young kittens under 3 months, if you do not want to see FIp a few months later.

Transmission of FIP disease from cat to cat doesn't happen. Two cats in the same environment can get FIP due to having the same stress exposures. Research shows that such FIP strains will be slightly different if genetically analysed - as each mutation is unique inside the cat.
The name "Feline Infectious Peritonitis" is thus historical only, and is a misnomer. FIP is not peritonitis and is not infectious. It is an auto-immune disorder triggered by damage to the immune system through stress. The FIP mutation causes disease if the predisposition is there due to the immune system damage.

Prevention is easy - and I recommned doing this through use of homeopathic nosodes instead of those damaging vaccinations currently so popular and strongly promoted by the drug companies that make them.

The best test in USA for FIP (not for corona virus) currently is Dr Kevin Steele's test. He developed an Elisa-7B-FIP test in 1998 which is 95% predictive for FIP. He also has a PCR test (more appropriate for autopsy confirmation) called the PCR-7B-FIP test. The 7B refers to a gene that occurs in FIP but not in the regular enteric corona from which it mutates. This covers most of the FIP seen "in the wild".
Other signs are in blood tests including high globulin, and in wet FIP
there is yellow, sticky, effusion fluid with high globulin.
Other effusion fluids have different characteristics.
Your vet should be up on the testing options, although the 7B FIP tests are not available in all countries yet.
When in doubt, I highy recommned immediate use of the homeopathic FIP nosode to build resistance to FIP.

On the www.belfield.com site- to the right of the opening page is an article on Immunotherapy- it mentions the use of Mega C Plus in curing FIP: this is the article: Summer, 2001 IMMUNOTHERAPYImmunotherapy is the administration of any substance or the use of protocols to enhance and optimize immune function. The need for enhancing and optimizing immune function is to create a healthy physiological environment for the body. There are two separate functions to this system, primary and secondary. The primary immune system is referred to as the Cell Mediated Immune
Response which consist of the white blood cells and the secondary immune system is referred to as the Humeral Immune Response which consist of antibodies.The Cell Mediated Response is the first line of defense against any foreign matter and microorganisms. When an infection persists for several days, the antibodies of the Humeral Immune Response begin to develop and assist and backup the white blood cells.There are individual animals that have difficulty resisting infections which can develop into chronic illnesses; these individuals are "immunodeficient." There are countless causes for this deficiency, too many to list, however, they all have one thing in common, they act as "free radicals." These molecules ranging from a puff of smoke to microorganisms can attack any cells of the body causing allergies, cancer and even death.Over one hundred years ago Louis Pasteur, the father of modern medicine, injected serum from an individual who
had survived small pox, into a child with the disease. Since the serum contained small pox antibodies, the child survived. Since that time, injecting serums and attenuated microorganisms to prevent specific diseases remains the preferred method of preventing diseases. Remember, antibodies are the second line of defense. Until recently the primary defenses were totally ignored, much has been forgotten about the relationship of the two systems.More than two decades ago when Feline Leukemia was rampant and cats were being euthanized by the hundreds, I began my quest for preventing this dreaded disease. This of course was before the vaccine. It was apparent to me that the mechanism for the feline body to defend itself was in place but was not up to the task. As I had done countless number of times, it was off to the medical library at the local county hospital to seek new information that could be applied to the leukemia problem. After many visits to the library and reviewing scores of research papers, pieces of this complex puzzle began to come into place. The solution was loud and clear; treat the primary immune system not the vims. Since my pre-veterinary training had been in pharmacy and a chemistry major, I formulated Mega C Plus that contained all of the known nutrients to have a positive effect on the Cell Mediated Immune Response. These crystals were designed to be incorporated into wet rations once or twice daily to felines testing positive for FeLV. My first attempt was successful. It took only nine weeks to reverse a positive cat to negative. The owner of this cat happened to be a breeder and within a few days, the whole nation of cat breeders knew about the out come.This was my first attempt at immunotherapy and I was pleased, to say the least, with the
positive results. To add credibility to my clinical experiences, the late Mardi Jacob, of Pet Pride Cats ofOregon, within a two-year period, reversed some fifty FeLV positive cats to negative. All of the testing was done at the School of Veterinary Medicine, Washington State University.The Mega C Plus protocol has been also successful with Feline Infectious Peritonitis (FIP), Feline Immunosuppressive Virus (FIV). A blood sample was submitted to a diagnostic laboratory to determine the antibody titer for Feline Infectious Peritonitis (FIP); the results was "0" titer. Having been taught that there must be a titer to indicate how well the body is
protected against an organism I thought, perhaps, another problem had been created. A "0" titer usually indicates the animal has no defense against a specific organism. With great anxiety, I phoned the veterinary pathologist at the lab and inquired about the lack of antibodies, "is this animal protected?" I queried. He inquired as to the patient's physical condition and I described an animal in excellent health his retort was "if there is no organism there will be no antibodies, you have eliminated the organism.” Contrary to what I had been taught as a veterinary student, antibody production is not the primary means for protection against microorganisms. Optimizing and enhancing the Cell Mediated Immune Response through the administration of nutritional supplementation has a major advantage over antibody production. Because of the antioxidant effects against foreign invaders, vitamins such as C and E, and minerals like zinc and
selenium are great contributors to the protection of the body and while protecting against foreign invaders, the body is also being nourished. The presence of microorganisms, through natural infection or vaccination, will always pose a threat to the body, if not now, later.Protection of the body through immunotherapy is not limited to the control and elimination of microorganisms. There are thousands of foreign substances that can gain entrance into the body causing immune deficiencies, for which there are no pharmaceuticals or vaccines to control and prevent. hypersensitivities (allergies)are a perfect example of serious illness due to allergens not microorganisms. The accepted protocol, to date, is testing for the allergens causing the hypersensitivity and injecting the appropriate anti-allergen, or a life of
cortisone or similar steroid therapy, which in themselves, will create immune deficiencies. These approaches offer temporary relief and do not solve the problem and do not prevent hypersensitivities to other allergens. The solution to allergies is strengthening the immune system that will enable it to permanently resist the invasion of all allergens.It is not to be concluded that any immunotherapy will create a "super" canine or feline. Whatever is in the gene pool, from the parents, will be enhanced and optimized. As an example, should you have a six-cylinder automobile, you expect all six cylinders to function to optimize performance; high-octane fuel will not add cylinders. This is not a "quick fix" treatment, but rather an on going struggle against external forces. Ideally, this should begin with the very young and persist throughout life; however, it can be initiated at any age, "better late than never."I am often asked, by pet owners
that have experienced positive results through nutritional immunotherapy, "why doesn't the veterinary profession encourage more of this?" The standard reply by the conservative professionals; "there is no scientific evidence to prove efficacy." If there are no "scientifically proven" protocols to solve an immune deficiency problem, what does one have to lose by administering harmless supplemental nutrients? It has been established that over the past decade, more people have died from the administration of “scientifically proven” prescription pharmaceuticals and no deaths from vitamins and minerals. It is now being found not to treat FIP with antibiotics or cortisone- it only weakens the animal . Also an improved diet is needed not commercial food Give only spring water for the pet to drink.

If your vet says that there is no cure for FIP- there is a vet in Pennsylvania who has cured pets of FIP holistically. Holistic Vet List at Pets4Homeopathy... Don Hamilton, DVM New Mexico / Phone: 505 666-2091. Pennsylvania. Dr. Deva Khalsa1724 Yardley-Langhorne Rd Yardley, PA 19067 215-493-6021. Washington. ... www.pets4homeopathy.com/holisticvetlist.html - 18k - Cached - Similar pages That is her phone number above. she may reveal to another vet what she used. It is said that she can arrest and even reverse FIP. a
young cat , as you
say you have- can recover quickly because it IS young. In a book called The Very Healthy Cat book by Dr. W>O> Belfield, DVM he says that in the very last stages- if there is no other hope- that he removes the spleen- he says that the spleen exacerbates the problem- and once it's removed that the pet recovers. Completely. Lastly, in a book called Green Leaves of Barley by noted author and nutritionist Dr. Mary Ruth Swope- she write of a cat who was in the last stages of FIP. The cat could not stand. Her caregiver mixed up powdered Barley Green ( you can get it from a health food store ) according to directions and put a bowlful down in from of the cat who dragged himself over to it and drank the whole thing. She made up another batch and he drank that. She kept the bowl filled and he would go and drink as he wanted through the day. Within 48 hours the cat had fully recovered.(You may have to give it by dropper or syringe if the cat won't take it by himself. )

Barley Green is made up of the juice of the leaves of the barley plant- very potent very effective. Dr. William O Belfield, DVM who said to remove the spleen( only as a last resort) in a cat in the last stages of FIP- he has a web site:www.belfield.com and he could possibly be contacted to find out exactly why the spleen hs to be removed in some cases.On a search it says he has a private practise in San Jose:Food not Fit for a Pet ... by Wendell O. Belfield DVM. ... Dr. Belfield is a graduate of Tuskegee Institute of Veterinary Medicine, now in private practice in San Jose, California. ... ]www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0106-04.htm[/url] - 17k - Cached - Similar pages
On a phone directory search this is the info on him: Belfield Wendell O DVM Bel Mar Veterinary Hospital 3091 Monterey Highway San Jose, CA 95111 408-227-8844 Email: phone phone | map & details His phone number is: 1-408-227-8844 He would be able to tell another vet if it should be done and how to do the operation if needed as a last resort.
Vets are now saying not to give antibiotics for FIP
and not to give cortisone because it only weakens the animal . Improve the diet they say- whole foods. TRANSFER FACTOR PLUS - one capsule a day although you can give more because it's non-toxic and it helps alot. Available over the Internet and some stores may have it.
FIP has been linked to vaccination overload.
" In order to bring about a complete change in public consciousness one only needs to convince 15 percent of the human population."

Last edited by justncase; August 31st, 2005 at 09:06 PM.
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Old September 1st, 2005, 05:27 PM
doggirl doggirl is offline
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This is VERY important. FIP is a very commonly misdiagnosed disease. It's virtually impossible to get a definitive diagnosis on a cat until they've passed.

It is also a relatively new disease and many vets are not up-to-date on the newest information - therefore lots of misinformation, meaning many incorrect diagnoses and incorrect information.

FIP is not a disease itself with it's own vector. FIP occurs when for unknown reason, a small portion of cats who are infected with the relatively common and usually innocuous corona virus develop symptoms. In short, in a very small percentage of cases of cats being infected with corona, which is basically a cold virus, the virus mutates after infection and becomes a slightly different and much more dangerous form. So any cat that has FIP will be corona positive.

One thing that screams out at me....balance problems? I would invest in a second opinion and ask the vet if this could be vestibular-related (inner ear). Does the cat have that extremely drunk rolling of the eyes (nystagmus)? Check this site out, this is what jumps out to me when you talk about balance problems.

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Old September 1st, 2005, 06:45 PM
Lucy's mom Lucy's mom is offline
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I know just how you feel, I went through a very similar story with my cat Lucy, this

I'm writing to give you some hope, since Lucy, my cat, was diagnosed with the dry form of FIP, had all the tests with similar results as your cat. Lucy had stopped eating and drinking so I was force feeding her and taking her to my vet for fluid under her skin injections. She also had a fever. My vet also gave her pregnozone to make her feel better, so that she might start to eat again, but he told me that we were just buying some time. My husband who is a physician, told me that if she didn't have FIP and her body was trying to fight off another disease, the pregnozone would interfere with her natural ability to recover. So I decided to take a chance that she didn't have FIP, and give her more time to fight what ever infection she had. She started to drink and then eat on her own and now she's her beautiful self as good as new. I think they totally over-diagnose FIP, and I hope for you and your cats sake they are wrong. Don't give up on her though, she needs food and water to help her pull through. Good luck.
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