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  #1  
Old April 22nd, 2005, 09:41 AM
Eleni Eleni is offline
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can I plese ask everyone to do something

Ive noticed we all ahve been a bit hard on newbies [im not talking joemoe he deserved all he got] I ahve been hard on them too. But not everyone who walks in with a pregnant dog for example necessarily meant for what happened to happen, on one post she was actually given the dog unaltered and was left with the aftermath.

I feel as strongly about backyard breeders and responsible pet owners as everyone here.

but we really need to step back and remember that not everyone is a troll, or here to get us riled up, and sometimes newbies really do ahve stupid questions that they need answers too.

Id rather answer a dumb question then hear of another dog suffereing due to their owners ignorance.

im not meaning to rant, just pointing out that we can wait a bit before jumping on then and assuming them irresponsible, we still can inform the uninformed and help them become responsible pet owners, without jumping on them and assuming them a troll.

thats my 2 cents, i hope it doesnt upset anyone as that isnt my intention, nor is my intention to point fingers or say im better then anyone else, im just as bad and jsut as good as anyone here


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  #2  
Old April 22nd, 2005, 09:47 AM
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Great post, I totally agree.
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  #3  
Old April 22nd, 2005, 10:11 AM
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Agree . I haven't been posting much or reading all that much as sometimes the forum is just full of fighting, nasty comments and coldness. Other times, this place is WONDERFUL and the beautiful pics, happy endings and such make it a peaceful place to come. I'm torn at times to just ignore the "bad posts" or give a full blast. It's hard being an animal lover and watching all of the cruelty that goes on in this world. It's also become increasingly difficult to watch the way human beings treat each other. It's a double-sided coin: the love of animals is what brings most people here in the first place, sometimes I feel that's overlooked in posts. Other times I see how caring for an animals well being can make a person "bite". There are people who just don't "get it" with animals and need help, then there are those who don't care and never will. If only there was a simple solution. For those in rescue and fostering, and those of us who've adopted we know the answer to over population and un-wanted pets. All that can be done is to try and educate more people. I haven't been here all that long and try to be non-judgemental. In real life however, I'm the b#tch that calls people from ads in the paper and lets them have it at times, other times I've been able to help people keep their pets. Wow, this got long, sorry. This has been mentioned before and all I want to really convey is I agree.
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Old April 22nd, 2005, 03:37 PM
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I find the people here are hardest on pregnant or breeding question as most of us believe in having your dog\cat fixed. There are so many unwanted pets in shelters and so on that we don't believe in bring more unwanted animals into the world. So many people write that their pet is so good looking, or sweet that they want to breed it or that they think that you should let their female have one litter why? Some people tried to talk me into sending my dog out to stud, no it won't happen, he was neutered at 6 months, for one I don't want to be part of the animal problem and for two it makes for a less aggressive male. If we sound hard sometimes there are some members that work in shelters\rescues and just think of what they see, of the unwanted or damaged pets that are pts each year, could you watch this happen I know that I couldn't. So forgive us if we sound hard sometimes.
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  #5  
Old April 22nd, 2005, 03:47 PM
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Eleni,we have discussed this on several occasions,advice is often given to protect the animal or any offspring.Most often the poster does not want to hear the advice given.
I believe everyone here agrees with responsible pet-ownership and that definetly means spay/neuter.
We do not want to encourage breeding,many times by an owner who know nothing about the consequences or the whole birthing process...and if someone ask for advice about birthing,the only advice we can give is the Vet.
An answer usually not wanted..
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  #6  
Old April 22nd, 2005, 03:51 PM
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I agree with doggy lover. I try to be polite and am but if they want my advice, I give it. If they do not want to follow it, that is up to them but I am afraid I do not suffer fools well and any post about my friend/cousin/grandmother wants a baby from cute kitty irks me to no end. Also, I do not understand why people do not research before hey post a question (Guess that qualifies as a pet peeve, lol). It is why there is a Seach function. If they did that, they would know the tenor of the Board. They should also lurk before junping in which is known as proper netiquette.

That said, I will help someone who unfortunately has a pregnant cat or dog - tho I mostly respond to queries about cats or bunnies. I am no expert on dog births. I also respond to health related questions but it takes all my energy to cope with people who ask life or death questions when they should be at a vet's office. I won't be mean but it does not imply I have to be ready to embrace them either.

Like doggie lover, I have a cute cat who many have suggested I show - and that implies if she won any significant prize, I'd consider breeding her. But I refuse to be part of the problem or put her at any risk.

There are a plethora of resources online for breeders - if they really want to add to the problem, they can ask there.
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Old April 22nd, 2005, 04:42 PM
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Eleni.. a very thought-provoking post! I agree.

It is a double edged sword, and the sharpness or impatience that may come across is most defiitely understandable... and to a certain degree unavoidable.

Yes, newbies should do a search before jumping in with a question that is sensitive in nature - one thats been addressed a thousand times before.
But they dont always.
In a perfect world,... there wouldnt be trolls who aim to stir the pot, selfish and irresponsible pet owners ignoring the obvious, or just plain ignorant and uniformed people asking questions blindly but sincerely..

And everyone here would have the patience of a saint.
And of course.. would know which was which..

.
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  #8  
Old April 22nd, 2005, 08:56 PM
Eleni Eleni is offline
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I too strongly beleive in ahving pets fixed.

I think perhaps i portrayed what i was trying to say wrongly.

ill post tomorrow morning with an atempt to more clearly word myself, im pretty sleepy tonite and its been a very long day for me



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  #9  
Old April 23rd, 2005, 12:53 AM
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I am sure everyone means well here even though it may seem harsh at times.

By the way I am still dogless and I am in the process of researching different breeds.We decided the bulldog is not for us. I have inquired about a number of rescue dogs all of which would not suit us. I am actually interested in a Labradoodle I know there mutts and thier over priced 2500 here where I live.I grew up with labradors and Golden retreivers. But I am hoping to maybe find one as a rescue I dont actually mind the shedding. I have done enough research to know that they can shed, aren't always as smart as they say are. I have also been in contact with a dog expert web site they reccommended a few different breeds that would be suitable for us (retreivers and poodles were among them) so I am trying to keep that into consideration when looking for a dog. So far I have been checking all of the SPCA web sites in BC and looking at Pets on the net and other sources that I can find.
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Old April 23rd, 2005, 01:48 AM
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If you reasearch labradoodles here, you will find most are not impressed with them either - or at least the notion of designer dogs that are really cute mutts that are bred for profit and are not recognized by the various registries for the obvious reasons. It is hardly the dog's fault but if you really want one of these dogs, please adopt one at a shelter. (There may also be medical issues with this cross breeding but you are likely aware of that if you are doing your research)
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  #11  
Old April 23rd, 2005, 09:14 AM
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Thanks I agree that labradoodles are way over priced.
a pure bred Golden retreiver in the paper was 300 and the labradoodle was 2500 doesn't make sense to me. I have been reading up on labradors, retreivers and poodles and they seem to be good breeds.Although it seems they do end up in shelters for shedding and behavorial issues.I have not seen been able to locate any here as of yet I grew up with retreivers and they have all been loyal great gentle dogs. I am in the process of researching poodles too as I have never had one before. I think a pure bred golden might be too big for us, a female might perhaps work as she may be smaller but there is no guarantee of how big she would get. We would like to get a small to medium sized dog not a toy as apparently they are too fragile around children. I think it might take a while to find the right dog we will probably end up getting her from a shelter.
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  #12  
Old April 23rd, 2005, 05:35 PM
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I still consider myself rather new here, only been on this webstie for over a mnoth.
I myself, would ask that people put themsleves into the other persons position before answering the question, and try to be more understanding. As well know that thier experience is not the same as everyone elses.
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  #13  
Old April 23rd, 2005, 06:01 PM
Eleni Eleni is offline
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still not sure on how to word myself so i think ill let this thread die,

perhaps i was ahving a sensative day, ive had a few of those lately with all thats going on in my household


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  #14  
Old April 24th, 2005, 11:06 PM
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I am a newbie here too and its taken me a little while to learn "netiquette" (great word by the way CK!!!!). It is so hard to express and read people over the net sometimes, and things that may be meant in a completely innocent way can be severly misconstrued.But in saying this, sometimes these situations provoke both partie(s) to step into each others shoes and communicate in a more productive way, and it is part of the learning and growing process. Whilst there will always be the "trolls" and insincere out there, most of the regulars that i have noticed already here are beautiful caring and wise people, all here because we have a common interest in the love of our pets. Sometimes too, for us new parents, we ask seemingly silly questions... and try silly things.... but if we don't try and share, how do we learn? Respect for each other is imperative... not suffering fools is OK, but don't be hasty in judging if it is a fool you are dealing with or not.
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  #15  
Old April 26th, 2005, 02:04 PM
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Oh elani you just read my mind!

I meant to post something similar a while ago, but was unsure of myself since I haven't been on this site for too long.

I completely agree with you! I'd rather answer a stupid question than to see a pet suffering. More than once I've noticed that rather than answering a question, some would jump out immediately and pass on their own judgements.

After being on this site for a while, I was immensely grateful to the first few people who didn't booed me when I was first looking for a puppy: didn't know where to start and didn't even know that so many puppies were available for adoption in shelters, until goldengirl pointed that out to me.

I guess my point is: it takes time and a whole learning curve to be a responsible pet owner. Don't judge, but point to the right direction, let the owner make an informed decision.
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  #16  
Old April 26th, 2005, 05:39 PM
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I think its hard...

I think it's hard sometimes to not be judgemental about things, but I also think that if someone took the time to search the web for a site like this one then they are most likely someone who is concerned with their pets (although I agree that Joeschmoe or whatever his login was got everything he deserved - that was totally uncalled for). It took me quite a while to find this site and I must say that I love it. I have noticed that a couple of threads have gotten pretty nasty, but I also understand that those threads touched a nerve with some folks. I agree about the questions like -my cat is bleeding from it ears, what do I do- but at the same time I know that there are lots of people out there who ask questions that may seem stupid to some, but its because they don't have any real experience as a pet owner and are looking for advice. Even people like me, who have owned different kinds of pets since childhood and know some things, don't know everything. I have learned lots of stuff since finding this site and think I will be a much better pet mommy for having learned it, but I have to say that if someone would've jumped down my throat on my first thread I probably wouldn't have hung around long enough to learn any of that and that would've been my loss.
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  #17  
Old April 26th, 2005, 06:28 PM
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I agee with kandy.
I don't think we are that hard on people. It usually starts out nice, but I find it doesn't usually get nasty until, the poster gets all defensive because they feel guilty for not caring as much for the pet as they should.
Or they get all defensive if they don't feel the same about there pets as we do. for example If they don't believe in S/N, or they don't want to spend the money on a vet, ,or they think "it's just a dog/cat"!
I think thats all the people here are trying to do,is educate these people or try to give tham a conscience.
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  #18  
Old April 26th, 2005, 06:49 PM
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I completely agree with Happycats. With all the threads I have read that turned "nasty", it was generally either because the poster got defensive, or it wasn't really nasty at all, but somebody (generally somebody who had not offered any advice to the OP themselves) comes in and starts lecturing about being nice. I have very rarely seen somebody actually be rude. Blunt, yes, but when giving advice, that is one's perogative. The truth can hurt and appears to offend a lot on here. I was really suprised when i joined this site to see so much going back and forth about "being nice". Everyone is either looking to help or be helped with their animals, and as long as there are no direct insults or harrassment and a basic respect is upheld, I don't think there's any sense in getting offended by somebody's tone or an attitute you think somebody has. I mean, this is a pets forum on the internet, not junior high. Just my opinion
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Old April 26th, 2005, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amber416
I completely agree with Happycats. With all the threads I have read that turned "nasty", it was generally either because the poster got defensive, or it wasn't really nasty at all, but somebody (generally somebody who had not offered any advice to the OP themselves) comes in and starts lecturing about being nice. I have very rarely seen somebody actually be rude. Blunt, yes, but when giving advice, that is one's perogative. The truth can hurt and appears to offend a lot on here. I was really suprised when i joined this site to see so much going back and forth about "being nice". Everyone is either looking to help or be helped with their animals, and as long as there are no direct insults or harrassment and a basic respect is upheld, I don't think there's any sense in getting offended by somebody's tone or an attitute you think somebody has. I mean, this is a pets forum on the internet, not junior high. Just my opinion
Exactly
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  #20  
Old April 27th, 2005, 10:47 AM
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Conscience cannot be given but only found an felt from within.

Somehow this thread starts to get defensive as well, this shows how fragile we all are, and bear this in mind next time some newbie is getting defensive. True most of us are not high-schoolers, but we are humans, and humans have feelings. If our goal is to EDUCATE people to be responsible owners, don't you think excercising some form of effective communication is preferred over simply passing judgements?

I agree with Kandy that someone who chose to come to this site is probably one that actually CARES about their pets. My social psych professor used to tell us: "There is no such thing as a stupid question". There are many ways ways to communicate the same message. For myself, I find it easier to accept facts than judgements.
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  #21  
Old April 27th, 2005, 11:43 AM
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I find sometimes that people think the internet is free license to be rude, blunt or to say things they may not normally say to someone face to face.

Yes, the truth does hurt when it is given without tact.

Imagine your spouse telling you your ass looks fat in those jeans. It might be the truth, but really, how many spouses would live to tell the tale.
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  #22  
Old April 27th, 2005, 12:04 PM
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I feel I must say something now, before it gets out of hand.

The people who feel as though they've been attacked are usually the ones who are extremely deffensive. There have been some instances, yes, where regular members have jumped the gun a bit, but it doesn't happen often.

If someone comes here with an animal that clearly requires medical attention, but won't bring it because funds don't allow it, they're basically saying "please yell at me for being a bad parent". How else should people react to that type of situation? I, for one, will not sit idely by while an animal suffers needlessly. There is always some way to get the animal the medical attention it needs. Vets take payments, friends offer to help, families write cheques, banks extend lines of credit, employers may offer payday advances.

Others come here looking for advice that has been posted before, and a search will display that. For instance: declawing has been discussed adnauseum. Does it deter people from asking or posting about it? Not in the slightest. Had the search been done, there would have been insight on how this particular group feels about the subject.

There are always going to be people who feel like they're being attacked, no matter how nice the replies are, if they don't get the answer they're expecting.

I will no longer stand by while ANY sort of attacks happen, whether it be a new member who starts it, or an established member. It will not be condoned any longer. Period.

The best interests of the forums, and our animals, are at stake. Will I be popular? Not likely. Will I be fair? You better believe it. Old members, young members, members who haven't been born yet, our pets who walk across our keyboards - please respect ALL other members. We're here for the larger picture - our pets and our love of animals. Let's not forget why this site was originally created.
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Old April 27th, 2005, 12:12 PM
Daisy's Owner Daisy's Owner is offline
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Great post Trinitie.
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  #24  
Old April 27th, 2005, 01:01 PM
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I completely agree Trinite. The point of my post was apparently missed by a couple. Rarely have i actually seen somebody be rude but if and when somebody is actually being attacked, a moderator can take care of it. It's irritating to me when i'm trying to give advice and someone who has not offered any advice to the OP hijacks the thread with etiquette lectures. I personally think sugar coating advice is ineffective and a waste of time. However, i know some people prefer this and think it is a better way to educate. I do not post criticism on how people who feel this way choose to reply and i don't think it's warranted in the other direction. Being blunt and telling the truth does not equate to being rude. This is all i was saying.
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Old April 27th, 2005, 01:04 PM
amber416 amber416 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daisy's Owner
Imagine your spouse telling you your ass looks fat in those jeans. It might be the truth, but really, how many spouses would live to tell the tale.


I do, however, like your analogy Daisy's owner. See, some people just differ, if my fiance ever had the guts to tell me that i would applaud his honesty
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  #26  
Old April 27th, 2005, 01:05 PM
Trinitie Trinitie is offline
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I see where you're coming from amber. It's all good.
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According to the Humane Society of the United States:
There are an estimated 3-4 million dogs and cats euthanized each year in the US alone! PLEASE - spay and/or neuter your pets!
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Old April 27th, 2005, 02:15 PM
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By dictionary definition, blunt = insensitive, so being blunt and not being rude, hmmm... a very fine line here.

I realize that some members here are extremely honest and straightforward, and being honest is as natural as breathing, that's all fine with me. However if you demand a newbie to do a search before asking a stupid question out of "netiquette", wouldn't it be fair to have a few netiquettes of your own when giving advice?

I completely agree with Trinitie that there are going to be people who will get defensive no matter what, there is a judgement call here, and I'm not talking about those people, I am talking about normal people's reactions to criticism: angry and hurt and defensive. I don't make the assumption that newbies know nothing; that newbies are stupid pet owners; and that newbies don't care about their pets. I do assume however that if they have found this site, they genuinely care about their pets, this is my starting point.

I personally think there are more effective ways to communicate the same message, asking accusatory questions right from the beginning certainly isn't one in my book. After all, we are all here for one goal: that is to care and to love our pets and to promote animal welfare in large.
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Old April 27th, 2005, 02:30 PM
Eleni Eleni is offline
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I diddnt mean to make a big deal, was more of a something to think on

but honestly I posted when i was particularly in a sour mood, ive had a big amount of stress lately and find im short with people around me.


My apologies.

Eleni
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  #29  
Old April 27th, 2005, 02:51 PM
kandy kandy is offline
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I thought it was a good thread

Eleni: I thought this was a good thread. I think that sometimes people imagine a 'tone' of a reply and get defensive when the replies were not meant to be rude or condescending, etc. I think that most of us want what is best for our pets and appreciate the honest answers given here and I think that sometimes the only answer is tell someone exactly what you think - without the sugar. I'd personally rather have it straight up.
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Old April 27th, 2005, 03:02 PM
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Eleni, i think it's a good thing that you posted this here I think it is much better here then in a thread that is supposed to be helping an animal, and obviously there were people who have been bothered by the issue, on both sides. Nymph, I agree with some of what you say but as an English major i must clarify your dictionary definition. Insensitive is only one definition of the word blunt. Another dicitonary definition of the word blunt from my trusty Webster (i'm a bit of a geek, i know) is "abrupt and often frank in speech". Blunt is cutting out the sugar coating. Some may see this as insensitive, although, on a side note, insensitive is not the same thing as being rude. This issue is probably never going to be resolved, but i would say that if somebody sees a post that they believe is actually rude and attacking, they should contact a mod. The mod can then make the call and be the one to reprimand the offender, if needed, or pull the offensive post. It is probably best to leave the threads for the actual advice. Like i said in my last post, there are different ways for communicating and i have seen positive results from straightforward, bluntly given advice. I respect the fact, however, that others prefer a different method and will not publicly criticize these methods. When people post on any forum, they have to be prepared for all forms of communication and i believe everyone should be able to give advice as they feel fit (of course, again, to make sure i am crystal clear, this excludes personal attacks, harassment,and insults...whew ).
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