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Old March 25th, 2005, 12:10 PM
Safyre Safyre is offline
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How to tell if the cat is ready to give birth?

Please don't jump on me guys... I just need to know if Baby is close to giving birth.
The past day or so she has been going to the same place, only comming out to get food/water and a lil bit of attention, then she goes back to where she has made her home.
Is this what they mean by "nesting"? And how much before the birth does this normally happen?
  #2  
Old March 25th, 2005, 12:31 PM
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Is it a comfrotable place where she has lots of blankets et al? Is she restless and more vocal than usual, even yowling? Does she refuse food? Does she make trips to her litter box that result in nothing and she restlessly returns to her nesting area? (if that is what it is) Have you made a nesting area for her?

Can you check her temp? On the 60th day, rectal temps drop below 100 F within 24 hours before the onset of labor. Normal ranges from 100.5 to 102 F.

Please watch her for blood spotting or any signs that could indicate a problem pregnancy or a premature birth. I really hope she is not as small as you originally thought. I am not one to pray all that much - but this cat needs my and our prayers!

Make sure to have the following on hand for the birth.

- a heating pad
- clean cloths and towels
- petroleum jelly
- a scale
- dental floss
- scissors
- cleaning materials and disinfectant

Is there are strong contractions for more than an hour without a kitten appearing,get her to a vet RIGHT THEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old March 25th, 2005, 01:01 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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Great advice Cyberkitten!

According to your dates, she should give birth within the next few days.

Tell them to keep their tomcat away from the kittens, and get him neutered asap.

Mom should be eating kitten food and as much as she wants both now and after the birth and should be kept in a room where she won't be disturbed.
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Old March 25th, 2005, 06:10 PM
Safyre Safyre is offline
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I already told my friends to get those supplies ready for the birth.
Baby likes to be under the bed, and this is a place that neither male will go. Once the kittens are born, the male cats will be kept from the room completely. right now, they go int he room, but don't go under to where Baby is laying. I've always been told that even if you make a bed for the cat to have the kittens in, she will make her own place. Is it advisable to TRY to make a bed for her and show her there? Again, never having had a progenant cat of my own.
She has not started to vocalize at all, and is still eating her food. I willa sk my friend about the other symptoms.
Thanks for the advice guys, I really hope everything works out alright with her.
I plan on paying for the male get to get neutered in April (as I have no money till then)
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Old March 25th, 2005, 07:01 PM
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Hopefully she is not nesting under the bed -you need to be able to see her and help her easily. If a mother cat sense anything at all wrong with the kits. she herself will kill them. Please do not let her give birth under the bed!! Not to mention she herself will likely need instant vet care!
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Old March 25th, 2005, 09:06 PM
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I am trying to convince my friend to block off the bed to her, and... hopefully she does.
at this point, i am soo frustrated.. i can't even talk about it
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Old March 25th, 2005, 11:32 PM
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Oh dear Sayfre, now I'll be worrying about that poor Baby again, sigh!!! Poor little pussy cat!! What did she do to deserve your friends? I hope to God she'll be OK and that she really is not as small as you originally thought. When I read the problems small cats have - if they do not have a C section, most would - it just makes me ill all over again. It is not just my love of animals. It is just that I am so used to being able to help small children and big ( ) get well and it can be such a high (makes the lows every so much worthwhile!) I feel extremely frustrated just to read your post! I wish you luck in convincing her.

Forgive me but I have to say tho if a friend of mine was that stubborn, I'd be so tempted to so something unorthodox - I'd get the biggest guys I know and go there and take the cat and tell her I think she is endangering this pet's life and I am taking her to the vet. (I am not sure about calling Animal Contril given the varying records in different jurisdictions). If she tried to stop me, well so be it. Maybe it is beacuse I have been thrteatened when I've reported ppl for child abuse and that just makes me more determined! I even reported a fellow now imprisoned for five (and God knows how many more) murders in NB for the abuse of his gf's son. (One of the women he viciously murdered after that was a former secretary of mine but that was coincidental I think tho I do not know for certain). I would not lie to your friend but I would be nebulous and tell her she is tenuously close to breaking the laws regarding animal abuse and for her own good and for the cat's good especially, you were taking her to the vet. If she is a good friend, she would understand. (I mean, I dragged a suicidal friend - when I was an undergrad - to the univ health services) She realized later she needed the help. Your friend may not require psychiatric care but she is certainly dilusional if she thinks this feline birth will be easy.

Sorry to go over this again but it makes me crazy (maybe noi more than I already am as my friends would say, lol) but I sense your frustration. I gather you were not able to get thru to the husband? Does this woman have at least some sense of common sense and decency that you can talk some sense to her or him?
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Old March 26th, 2005, 09:22 AM
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She is my closest friend, and for that reason, I am not willing to risk her friendship.
My vet, doesn't think that there will be a problem with the labour, seeing a pic of her. he does beleive she is on the smaller side of normal, but not a midget cat.
If my vet told me yeah, shes gonna have problems, get her in here, I would do something drastic. But with the vet not beleiving there is going to be a problem, I'm hesitent to do anything.

The other thing with her, is that, i cannot feel definate babies in her stomach. it is distended and all other signs of pregnancy, but I can't feel the kittens. So... she might just have one, or tiny lil ones in there.
I'm soo frustrated by my friend at this point... i am worried, but everyone reaches thier breaking point...
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Old March 26th, 2005, 10:01 AM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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You're a lot more tolerant than I. If I had a "friend" who treated animals this way, they would long since have been "EX" friends.

Not a single thing in this situation has changed so far, so she obviously doesnt' in any way value your advice or care much what you think or feel. "Best friend"?
  #10  
Old March 26th, 2005, 11:04 AM
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Since you can't feel kittens (Have you yourself felt the cat?) -I wonder if they are even there or maybe already dead? Sorry but it is what jumped to mind.

I am with Lucky! I have a couple people who I consider best friends and if one of them treated their cat like that, I'd have done what I suggested and if they truly were my friend, they'd understand. (I have been thru this with a friend who had the psychiatric problem and she understands why I did what I had to do). It is the same with her - you said before she is the wife of a friend. Sometimes we have diufficult choices to make and morally and ethically, the health of any being comes before friendship. Even if one of my relatives was abusing/neglecting a cat the way these people are, I would have acted quickly. I'd like to think anyone would.
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Old March 26th, 2005, 12:52 PM
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omg, I just typed up a whole long reply and lost it!
ARGH!!!!

I have been checking on Baby since we figured out that she was pregnant. I still cannot feel any kittens in her stomach. My friend is convinced that she can, when she does she tells me 'feel here' and i have no idea what she is feeling, cuz nothing is there, from what I feel! She has distended nipples hat are pinkerer than normal, and they are now a lil dry.
Even if the kitten was still born,you should still be able to feel its shape, right?
It's very weird to look at baby though cuz, she does NOT look pregnant. You have to have your hands on her body to know that there is symptoms of pregnancy there. This i another reason my friends fel she will be okay.. because she has remained soo small, that the distended belly has stayed small. The friends feel that there will be just small babies. I'm thinking maybe only one if there is something there.

*sighs*
Everyone on this website knows that you should vaccinate and fix your animals
However, if we were to go and take away all the cats of owners that don't do this.... well, the rescuss and shleters would be even more over populated than they currently are!
The rescues and shelters need to worry about the animals that are being physically abused, and emotionally abused.

I am very frustrated by the suggestions to take the cat, as I have no way to bring it to the vet! I talked to my vet, he will NOT waive his fee to see this animal. He feels that she is on the small side of normal, not a midget, and should be able to deliver without problem.
On tuesday, i am going to call a vet that... I don't like. I don't like his clinic, I have heard some bad things... but I have heard some good things about him personally. he is a client of my mom's. I am going to call him and see if he will waive HIS fee to see Baby. But thats all I can do ... keep banging my head against walls and hope a door opens up

Last edited by Safyre; March 27th, 2005 at 04:45 PM.
  #12  
Old March 26th, 2005, 03:57 PM
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I am sorry about your job situation. That does suck! I hope you will something else soon!!

Hmmmm- I wonder if the kittens are even there if you can't feel them. See, if she would take Baby to a vet, they could know for sure. (But I know-- I am just stating the obvious...) It doesn't sound good. You would feel the fetuses if they are stillborn but what if they died when they were barely embyros - there may well be extremely tiny fetuses there and a cat can die after having dead babies in their uterus. Her body could have rejected the embyos? I know I am jumping way ahead of myself very little info to work with but would she take Baby to a vet with that info? Baby could die of an infection if those fetuses are not removed -if that is what the situation is.

And her argument that the babies may be small is meaningless as well. Small babies are usually premature and by the sound of it, they would have been born already. That also goes to the question of why Baby is small. If she petite because she was malnourished, that does not mean she will have small babies. And don't forget daddy's contribution to the gene pool.

If ever a cat needed a vet, this is one. Poor Baby!! Literally!!!!

And about that vet - did he really make that comment based on her appearance in a picture? My God, if one of my med students made a comment or based a medical opinion about a child by looking at a photo, I'd be tempted to ask him how he managed to get this far, lol The vet can only determine what the situation by looking at her - in person - and by examinng her. In the picture, is she sitting next to a normal sized cat to determine the difference? Not only that but it is not just her size per se but the size of her uterus and her body's capability for birthing. You can have a 30 pound cat who has very small birthing canal. A pregnant cat is the same as any other pregnany female species. Good prenatal care will ensure a good outcome. With none, you are just hoping for the best. I know most of the time, cats and other beings, deliver babies with little trouble. But there are situations that need attention and this is one of them.

If this woman really is a good friend, she should value your help and observations, instead of looking the other way. (But I won't go there - it is pointless and I know you are frustrated too).
  #13  
Old March 26th, 2005, 04:39 PM
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I am sorry I looked in to this post,it's the same thing all over again.
I can understand you asking questions,unfortunately there seems to be only one answer :sad:
Baby might be crawling in under the bed for other reasons,cats sick and in pain will tend to hide.If you don't feel the babies,which at this stage you should,they could very well be dead and a great danger for Baby.
Also,like we said before,if she has the babies,the male tom must be kept away,since she can get pregnant again(at least I believe so )
Does the situation not bother your friend in the least,is she prepared to bring the cat to an Emergency vet should things go wrong?Or would she just watch her die? It would be cheaper for her to bring her to the vet now.
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Old March 26th, 2005, 06:08 PM
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To explain my discussion with the vet, we were talking about the size of the cat, my concern that she was a midget. from the pic, he does not feel that she is. *shrugs* For that reason, shouldn't worry more than with a normal cat pregnancy. (haha, i'm a worrier, I worry bout everything)

CyberKitten - you have read my mind, in regards to the presence of kittens. I am concerned that there is ntohing there. I know that in cats, they can sit up high, right near the ribs and that could make them hard to feel. However, I still feel nothing. I have been around some pregnant cats before, my Zeppo was born to a stray that was in the neighbourhood. We watched her give birth. I know that we should be able to not only feel the babies at this time, but also be able to see them move!

Chico2 - This thread was started to so I could determine how to tell if she was getting ready for labour. None of the issues of vet care have changed, but I still need to know how to tell if she is getting ready to give birth.


BTW, As for Ed, the intact male, I want to have him neutered, and hope to do so when I get EI.

Last edited by Safyre; March 26th, 2005 at 06:22 PM.
  #15  
Old March 26th, 2005, 06:45 PM
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I can relate to the worrier part, I don't worry so much about myself but perhaps because of what I do, I see a bruise on a child that has been described as tired and I think the worst (brusing and fatigue being a common indicator of leukemia). I guess I am in the biz of seeing what can go wrong.

I have seen cats give birth too, often with a look from the mother (a barn cat or cats from my gram's feral colony) that said "you, make yourself useful and smarten up." <g> There were never any complications except once when a feral cat we had managed to get into the house (but not to the vet who was on vacation and he was the only one within a 200 mile radius and the dept of agriculture was very rude to my 13 year old self when I suggested he come and look at "my pet kitty" (Even then, I'd did not dare say Mona (I named her Mona after one of my fav babysitters when I was a young child, lol). He refused to come and I later wrote to my MLA and the Minister of Agriculture who sent back polite replies but never fired the guy. He was filling in but still....he was one of those big animal vets who thought horses and cows were more important because they actually worked. I should have said my horse (I did have a horse named Sunshine) was ill and then later said she was miraculously cured but since had driven 2 hrs, could he look at my cat? But well, I was 13, nuff said.

Anyway, poor Mona's babies were dead! Needless to say, a necropsy would have cost a small fortune if anyone would have deigned to do it. Worse, my gram - who was a nurse- instantly figured that the kitty probably had an infection which was maybe why she was so docile and allowed herself to be taken inside by a 13 yo kid! (tho she mainly stayed in her box except to eat and do her biz). Her temp was high and gram guessed but we will never know that toxoplasmaxis (sp?) - the illness pregnant females need to be aware of and stay away from cleaning litter boxes - and so because she managed the local hospital's ER, she was able to get some sulfra drugs - bactrim maybe, I forget now - and we maanged to get a 22 gauge IV needle into this poor cat's femur , figuring that would be the fastest route. She also had me (gram could be bossy, lol ) mix up some lactobacillus - yougurt essentially because Mona had diarhhea as well and it could be any other type if infection. So I made our usual recipe and the cat, so ill, lapped a little but I squirted the rest in with an eye dropper.

Also, since this feral was not vaccinated, distemper was a grim possibiluty and the horrible consequences of that could well have been the dead kittens.

OMG!! It occurs to me we are dealing with what is essentially a feral cat here too - not vaccinated or careed for properly at any rate. Gawd!!!!

Anyway, to make this story short and get back to Baby, Mona survived but she was ill for a good month - she developed pneumonia (she did evemtually see the vet when he returned) and while she never became a lap cat, she was spayed and found a home with a nurse gram worked with. She was a stunning gray cat - looked like a Russian Blue tho clearly she was not.

Anyway, mt point is that any of these possibilities may be occuring here. Try to cinvince your friend to have an xray taken. Baby is not feral - an xray is not expensive and could save her life!
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Old March 26th, 2005, 06:54 PM
Safyre Safyre is offline
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If i was to get an xray of Justice, it would be close to $170 from my vet ... thats not expensive? Can I have your job? (sorry for the sarcasm)

I only know the cost because the toller breed CAN have hip dysplsia so I am going to have her xrayed at 18 months.
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Old March 26th, 2005, 07:11 PM
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But it is cheaper for a cat, right? Surely to God it is not $170 for an Xray of a small cat! I think my vet charges in the area of $40-50. Even a tooth Xray is $12 and if we direct billed people in NS and NB at least, a chest Xray would be about $85-100.
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Old March 26th, 2005, 08:25 PM
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Never asked for a cat, just know how much it would be for Justice.
Have no idea what type of scale they would have for cats. I'll find out tuesady
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Old March 27th, 2005, 11:28 PM
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I had two xrays of my Big Boo done when they suspected bone cancer and they did them both on one film and charge $50 per film... I don't know any xray that costs $170... Are you getting a full CT or something?
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Old March 28th, 2005, 10:13 AM
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nope, nothing more than an xray.
I beleive the visit fee was in with that, the visit fee being $45.
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Old March 28th, 2005, 11:02 AM
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X-ray can cost more than 50.00.. When my lab went to the Vet last yr it cost 165.00 just for the xray.. depends on how many they need to take. Good luck, hope everything turns out well.
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Old March 28th, 2005, 01:09 PM
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Yes but to see kittens, you would only need one or two small films-- you can't do too many because it'll mess with the kittens. I don't see why the whole thing should cost more then $100. That kitty is not big. They could use one big film for the two xrays, if they even need two. And this is the only vet you trust in your area?
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Old March 28th, 2005, 01:20 PM
Safyre Safyre is offline
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yeah well, regardless of price, i still don't have the money to get her xrayed.
I shoulda asked when i called about heartworm meds today, but forgot.
For all I know she coulda given birth already, my friend is being very short with me.
  #24  
Old March 29th, 2005, 02:38 PM
Britishvixen21 Britishvixen21 is offline
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This is the number to the humane society clinic in toronto, surely they will know someone in your area who will help you free of charge??? I dont believe that there is not vet or society out there that will not help a dying animal! Please call and at least see, Even if you have to drive to Toronto!!! 416.392.2273

I would call for you, but I dont know that if I sort something out there will be an excuse why you cant travel to Toronto.
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Old March 29th, 2005, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyRescue
You're a lot more tolerant than I. If I had a "friend" who treated animals this way, they would long since have been "EX" friends.

Not a single thing in this situation has changed so far, so she obviously doesnt' in any way value your advice or care much what you think or feel. "Best friend"?
My thoughts exactly. She has no regard for your opinions or friendship whatsoever. And, while the tom doesn't normally go under the bed, that will change if he wants to get at the kittens.
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Old March 29th, 2005, 06:19 PM
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I have not heard anything from my friend, she is till being rather short with me. I gave her this website address so if she has read my posts, she might be rather pissed at me.

Traveling to Toronto, I really wish I could. I have a quater tank of gas until April 6th.(really wish ihad set up for GST to be direct deposisted!) I will give them a call and see if there is anyone in Chatham they know that could help.

I did go ahead and do some calling around yesterday, for prices. I explained the situation, and no one seems to be as concerned as the people on this website though. I explain to them what the situation is, starting to cry as I am soo upset, and they tell me that there is ntohing to get worried about. That, 63 days is the normal justation for the cat, it doesn't matter that i can't feel the kittens, i probably just don't know what i am doing, and that they can't waive the fee.
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Old March 29th, 2005, 06:50 PM
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If your friend read the web site, she might be highly upset with those of us who've offered advice tho - we do have experience and love of animals behind us - she would see your concern for her and especially her cat! Why should she be angru with that? That says alot about her actually.
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Old March 29th, 2005, 06:51 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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Realistically, why should vets reward careless and irresponsible owners by waiving a fee, when responsible and caring people pay full price?

My own vet always helps by giving discounts or waiving the exam fee for cats I've found and want to adopt out, but I'm sure she wouldn't do it if I went to her with this ludicrous story of my own two cats that I was too lazy/irresponsible/cheap/ignorant to spay/neuter, and had them breeding in my home.. Or if I told her I couldn't or wouldn't care for them properly because they were free, and I bought a puppy from a puppymill for 2000$ (and subsequently got rid of) and had a bunch of expensive reptiles to care for.

Seriously, if I were a vet, I wouldn't help them either. In fact, I'd probably throw them out, since there is NO excuse in the world for this.
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Old March 29th, 2005, 07:10 PM
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LuckyRescue, ok, I feel rather offended by your last post, and i will explain why: We had no idea the puppy was from a puppymill, and I was with her, so that feels like an insult to me, because i didn't know it was from a mill either. I had no idea where pet shops got thier animals, until that experience.

Now the rest, i am not offended by, I understand what you are saying. I don't blame the vets for not waiving the fee either, looking at it the way that you have. The person just being irresponsible does not deserve a waived fee.
*I* cannot afford to help this animal. I have no job. Which is why i was calling trying to find the cheapest place, and find if they would help but lowering a fee. Because I would love to help this animal, but without money, I am sorta stuck. even to drop her off at OSPCA costs money!!
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Old March 29th, 2005, 07:18 PM
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IT doesn't matter if the dog came from a mill or from the best breeder in the country. That's not the point. The point is that it's outrageous that they would spend such a huge sum to buy a puppy when they refuse to care for the animals they already have.

I'm certainly not trying to offend you.
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