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  #31  
Old March 8th, 2005, 12:36 PM
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I get really confused sometimes people complain about people that do not have there dogs do anything,here is someone that is getting her dog involved in lots of things,[which they were bred to do]and now someone is shaki n there head,could you please expalin why, maybe i am way off base of why you are shakin head in dismay???????????Please do tell///////////
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  #32  
Old March 8th, 2005, 06:59 PM
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Thanks for the support and understanding everyone.
But, could we get back to what this thread was about? What can I add to my pups diet to add some fat to him? He is exercised and with nicer weather coming our way soon, he'll be getting much more. I feel what he's getting now is sufficient to maintain his growth(6 cups Nutro Natural daily)...but, at the rate he's been growing and his energy level, He will require more in order to put on some extra wieght.
Bear in mind he's a Dobe, so prone to bloat. I feel his 2 daily meals are large enough as it is. I have considered adding a midday meal, however, I do have another dog who is overwieght and her meals are restricted. Doesn't seem fair to add more to him when she can't have it too I'd like to add something to each of his meals that is high in fat.
Suggestions please??

I figured with all the rescue folks here someone would have a good suggestion for putting on wieght
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  #33  
Old March 8th, 2005, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjranch
I have considered adding a midday meal, however, I do have another dog who is overwieght and her meals are restricted. Doesn't seem fair to add more to him when she can't have it too I'd like to add something to each of his meals that is high in fat.
Suggestions please??

Maybe some elements from A BARF diet or a high energy natural food?
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  #34  
Old March 8th, 2005, 08:29 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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figured with all the rescue folks here someone would have a good suggestion for putting on wieght
YEs, we do, but the animals we need to put weight on are usually in a state of emaciation and malnutrition due to starvation, and not healthy young animals.

Quote:
I'd like to add something to each of his meals that is high in fat.
Feeding food high in fat is NOT a good way to add bulk and would be very unhealthy for him, just as it is for us.

You can add a bit of cottage cheese to his meals. Salmon (not canned) is high in fat, but it's a "good" fat.
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  #35  
Old March 8th, 2005, 09:03 PM
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I know fat isn't real good for anyone, that's why I came here to ask
Salmon! I never thought of that, and the bones won't hurt him?
I guess what I'm really looking to do is increase caloric intact without too much bulk.
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  #36  
Old March 10th, 2005, 08:07 AM
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What a handsome boy.

Showing does take a toll on you and money also.I have a family friend who shows his Afghan.Cash is one point away from champion.I also have a friend who has a champion Dobe.His sire was world champion in 91 and Dam was Can/European Champion.

If you don't mind me asking,what are the parents backround?When you were looking for a pup,did you have the intensions of showing?The reason I ask is your breeder will know wich pup is show quality or pet quality.

I agree with doing the SchH.My GSD is titled in SchH III.He is also a retired Police Dog.He had to complete and pass Obedience.Then went through the 3 stages of SchH.SchH I starts at 18 months,SchH II at 19 months and the final SchH III at 20 months.Trust me,you don't need to train your dog for this.He will protect you.

Also,have you talked to your breeder about this?

Here is a pic of Nikko(red)
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  #37  
Old March 10th, 2005, 09:44 AM
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First, IMHO your dog doesn't look underweight from the picture you've shown. I can't see ribs for example. But that is just from one picture. So maybe he is too lean.

The simplest thing you can do to bring his weight up is increase the feed. It's better, in my mind, to do that than to add things like fat scraps etc. to the diet. Keeps things more balanced. For example, some have recommeded in the past to give a raw egg with the food as a boost but that will inhibit biotin intake. Bloat should not be a big concern if you do a few simple things. Limit water intake before and after the meal. Don't let him get excited or rolling and twisting around after eating. While bloat can be extremely dangerous if it happens, it is a small risk if you are careful. If you ever do see the signs go to the vet ASAP and insist on treatment including a radiograph to confirm if the stomach is twisted, don't let the vet guess. Timing is critical and quick response greatly reduces morbidity.

Recent studies show feeding two meals instead of one does not decrease risk of bloat.

You are feeding him a pretty good food. If you wanted you could try a food that is a bit richer. I think Eagle Pack Power is about the richest around, designed for working sled dogs, also used by lots of hunters/field trialers. I use tlcpetfood.com, it's in the middle between what you are feeding and the Eagle Pack. Eagle Pack original is pretty close to the TLCpetfood.

Another option is supplement with Prozyme which is a digestion aid. Will help him extract maximum nutrition from the food you are giving him.

Don't be too concerned if you are feeding more than the guidelines, particularly in the winter with a shorthaired dog. Dogs use food to regulate the body temperatures, so if he is active outside a lot he will require more food.
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  #38  
Old March 10th, 2005, 09:51 AM
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Here is a great link to Bloat.

http://www.globalspan.net/bloat.htm

Also,does he get canned or just dry?I would give him canned also.
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  #39  
Old March 10th, 2005, 09:35 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions.. He isn't 'underwieght', I just want to increase his intake because he is going to be getting much more exercise very soon and I don't want him to GET thinner.. He really couldn't afford to (IMHO) And he's still growing at a pretty good rate so that takes up alot of calories also.

He is fed only the kibble, no canned food. However, to further reduce the risk of bloat I soak it in hot water (also makes it more yummy for him ) This way I know it's pretty much already as big as it's gonna get before it goes in is belly. And it slows him down slightly (he bolts his food)
Because he already gets 6 cups aday of the Nutro large breed formula, I've been thinking of switching to the active dog/working dog formula (not sure what Nutro calls it).

*mona_b Your red is a beauty! Are you in ontario? If so what breeder did you get him from? Mine told me I pretty much got second pic from the litter....the stud owner picked either my pup or another,,,and he settled on the other at 7 weeks! then he was kinda second guessing his choice... we'll see this summer when the two pups end up in the same show ring We did discuss showing and performance training. We did not discuss Shutzhund...
Have you any suggestions or training tips I could be using for him at this age to make it easier/better when he's old enough?
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  #40  
Old March 10th, 2005, 09:58 PM
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What about changing the food for a more rich food? If you're giving 6 cups of this food, maybe there is another, better food that would require 4.5 to 5 cups and then you can up him back to 6? When I switched my dogs to solid gold wolf king, they dropped from 2.5 cups to 2 cups (for the smaller one) and 4.5 cups to 3 cups for the big guy. 6 cups is just such a huge quantity. I would look at finding a food that reduces the cups required before adding even more...
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  #41  
Old March 11th, 2005, 12:17 AM
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If you want to further the risk of Bloat,the I would suggest giving him canned also.If you read the link I posted,it did state you should not feed dry exclusively.Which means do not just feed dry.I have raised GSD's.They are the top breed proned to Bloat.My boys have always had both canned and dry.And get fed 3x's a day.Mind you Bloat doesn't usually occur till they are older,but my friend lost her St.Bernard to it at 8 months.IMHO,6 cups seems to be a bit to much.How many times a day is he fed?If only once,then break it down to 2-3 times a day.And I do suggest canned.

Nikko is not mine.He belongs to a friend of mine.He did come from a breeder here in Ontario.Where did you get yours?

What is your pups lineage?I'd like to hear more about the Sire and Dam and the Pedigree.Have you talked to your breeder about showing him?Your breeder would know all this and help you out.

As for suggestions,are you talking about the SchH?
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  #42  
Old March 11th, 2005, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
If you're giving 6 cups of this food, maybe there is another, better food that would require 4.5 to 5 cups and then you can up him back to 6?
Agree. Give him better food and you wont' have to feed as much. My 75 lb dog gets 2 cups of Wellness a day. There are no cheap fillers, ingredients are ONLY human grade and it's completely digestible to put on healthy weight.
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  #43  
Old March 11th, 2005, 12:00 PM
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The Nutro is as good as the Wellness. Actually it has a bit higher protein content.

Along with the Eagle Pack another you could try is Diamond Professional Formula. Nutro may also have a higher grade than what your are feeding.

Eagle Pack and Diamond Pro are highly regarded by people that run their dogs all day, hunters and mushers.

TLCpetfood would be too I suspect, but it's a pretty small company.
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  #44  
Old March 11th, 2005, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by db7
The Nutro is as good as the Wellness. Actually it has a bit higher protein content.

.

Sorry, but those 2 foods are in totally different classes!!

The Wellness has human grade ingredients whereas the Nutro does not.

Nutro is good but Wellness is much better.
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  #45  
Old March 11th, 2005, 12:19 PM
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Please remember this is a 7 month old, growing puppy?? He is a relatively high energy breed and in a serious growth stage. He requires as much feed as he's getting at this point.
I feed him Nutro Natural.. it's a comfortable price for me, and he seems to be doing great on it. Also, my other dog is too. She is being fed only 2 cups per day.. she's overweight and needs to shed a few pounds

I feed twice daily... 7am - 7pm and I soak it before feeding.
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  #46  
Old March 11th, 2005, 12:22 PM
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What does your breeder say?????
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  #47  
Old March 11th, 2005, 12:25 PM
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I think I am going to add some cottage cheese to his food. Maybe add in some canned as well. I want to keep him on the twice daily feedings, it's very convenient for us all... and he does well with it.
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions.
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Old March 11th, 2005, 12:46 PM
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What does your breeder say???HELLO HELLO
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  #49  
Old March 11th, 2005, 02:17 PM
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Gazoo, I just looked at the protein and fat ratios. You may know about Nutro than I. Fortunately I have never had to shop around and try different foods, so I don't know where Nutro lands in terms of quality.


Mind you pet food manufacture, in Canada anyway, is not regulated. So what the food is all about is tough to pin down. But that's for another thread.
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  #50  
Old March 11th, 2005, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by db7
Gazoo, I just looked at the protein and fat ratios. You may know about Nutro than I. Fortunately I have never had to shop around and try different foods, so I don't know where Nutro lands in terms of quality.


Mind you pet food manufacture, in Canada anyway, is not regulated. So what the food is all about is tough to pin down. But that's for another thread.

Nutro is NOT a bad food, in fact it's one of the better middle of the road foods out there. Healthy good stuff for your doogies anyway.

You also mentioned Diamond pet foods. Did you know they make the Costco brand and the Nutra Nuggets brand you can buy there? Both comparable to Nutro and significantly cheaper.
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  #51  
Old March 11th, 2005, 02:38 PM
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Interesting to know. However both beast and i are very happy with TLCpetfood.

She gobbles it up and is in great form, been on it all her life. (happy dog)

They deliver for free and her stools are easy to deal with. (happy human)
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  #52  
Old March 11th, 2005, 03:01 PM
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breeder feeds purina and I don't like that feed. breeder only suggested I find what I want to feed him, and keep him on it. I am happy with the Nutro....but, my original Q was simply how do I add alittle extra beef to my pup without adding a ton of extra food?? I was looking for a good additive to his meals that might do that...
I think I'm going to look at changing to Nutro's active formula..... i have to look into it first though
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  #53  
Old March 11th, 2005, 03:12 PM
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The reason why the Nutro may have more protein percentage-wise than the wellness is because of the kind. If you look at Pedigree corn food, there is still a lot of protein content, but the protein is not easily digestible. If you have a food with 25% proteing and half of that comes out in the stool, it's not better than a food where the dog absorbs all of the protein.

I don't understand why, if you want to show this dog, why you don't put him on the best food you know of? My babies were on "middle" range food and when I switched them to Solid Gold, I didn't think there would be a difference, but holy dog, there is. They have much shinier fur even though it was unbelieveably shiny before. I used to have a dobie and their short fur and easy access skin are so sensitive to the food quality. Plus with a better food you might feed less.
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  #54  
Old March 12th, 2005, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjranch
Please remember this is a 7 month old, growing puppy?? He is a relatively high energy breed and in a serious growth stage. He requires as much feed as he's getting at this point.
Yes,we know he is 7 months and growing... ..and handsome..

But 6 cups is to much.IMHO..

I have raised GSD's.They too are a high energy breed.I didn't feed them 6 cups.There was no need to cause they were on a good quality of food.Same with my sister who has 4 VERY high energy breeds.3 are Huskies and the other a Border Collie.Same thing,good quality of food.

I will get a hold of Nikko's mommy and talk to her about this.

Question.Does your vet have any concerns about his weight?He actually looks fine to me.

Also,how long have you had him?

I still would like to hear more about his Sire and Dam...
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  #55  
Old March 12th, 2005, 02:32 AM
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My dog Boo didn't have a chest until he was 2 1/2. We thought his elbows were just meant to touch... Now he's got a beautiful , "manly chest".

You can't eat your way to a chest (all the women here know that... ), you have to wait until it develops. And from what I have seen at shows, some dobies don't do well because they never develop the "proper" chest....
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  #56  
Old March 12th, 2005, 07:33 AM
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The vet is real happy with his weight right now, He want's him to stay lean. The other breeder I had him evaluated by suggested he is just alittle immature. He will fill out as he gets older. I guess I haven't been clear in explaining what it is I'm trying to do with this pup..
With the warmer weather coming his exercise is going to increase a great deal. He is doing great on the feed that he's getting now, but, it just isn't physically possible to keep caloric intake the same and increase activity without some adverse affects. I want to pump up his calorie intact to accomadate the increase in exercise...(the exercise is what I'm hoping helps him build a more muscular chest)

Here a photo of his sire - CH ULTRASOUND'S DAMIAN
by CH LINDON VON MORR
ex ULTRASOUND'S MERCEDES

His dam is from Coldwater, she is also an Ultrasound dog... have'nt got her pedigree info handy.... or a pic But, she's a big, correct black/rust girl
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  #57  
Old March 12th, 2005, 10:02 AM
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I think you don't have anything to worry about. I have a German Shorthair, so similar physique and hair as your Dobbie. In the winter I have to almost DOUBLE her food to keep her weight up and she is less active than the summer, but still we excercise her pretty hard. Or I should say she excercises herself, all I have to do let her off leash in the bush and she's on autopilot.

As the weather warms up and my GSP is MORE active, I will be feeding her LESS.

Every dog has it's own metabolism but I would be surprised if you don't see your boy beef up a bit with no food change once the weather warms up.
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  #58  
Old March 12th, 2005, 10:12 AM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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Nutro is NOT bad food, it's just not premium. I did try Nutro because of the price, but after I got it home, I saw that I would have to feed my dog TWICE as much of it as I do of the Wellness. No saving there.

Also you have to feed way more because obviously it takes more to give the same amount of nutrition as a higher quality and more digestible food.

My dog gets as much - and BETTER - nutrition from 2 cups of Wellness as she would get from 6 cups of Purina because most of it is not rejected by her body and doesnt' end up on the ground.

If I were conditioning a dog to show, I would want only the very best food that would put on healthy weight.
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  #59  
Old March 12th, 2005, 12:06 PM
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My little dog (62lb lab husky) was on 4 cups of wellness when we got her!!! We switched to Eukanuba because I couldn't afford Wellness and I gave her the recommended "cuppage" and she dropped 12 lbs in a month. Now her metabolism is more normal and she gets 2 cups of solid gold wolf king. My big guy (96lbs) gets 3 1/3 cups of solid gold and he is very active.

When we go away for a night, I put a day's food in a milkbag for each dog and 3 cups is a large quantity. I couldn't fathom 6 cups. It probably wouldn't fit in a milk bag... I would never let it get that high, I'd change the food first. I know great danes who eat 4 cups. Maybe they are more sedentary but they're a whole lot bigger.

What does "one of the best middle range foods" mean? I mean how can you have the best of something that's not the best? Eukanuba was $60 for 40 lbs and solid gold is $71 for 33 lbs, not much of a difference from middle to high. Wouldn't it be better to say "you get what you pay for"?
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Old March 12th, 2005, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by db7
Every dog has it's own metabolism but I would be surprised if you don't see your boy beef up a bit with no food change once the weather warms up.
Thanks for mentioning that...I hadn't considered that part of things Warmer weather also means their bodies are using less calories to stay warm too.
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