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Old December 23rd, 2004, 03:56 PM
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whinnie-boo whinnie-boo is offline
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Not near as proud as me......

I know they are BYB PITS but, they are cute none the less, and I would not have traded any of them. Especially my Boo-Boo.
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2 Female American Red-Nosed Pit-Bull Terriers:
Whinnie Age 3
Boo-Boo Age 1 1/2
2 Medium Haired All Black Cats:
Robert Age 1 1/2
Mango Age 2 1/2
"PIT-BULLS ARE LIKE POTATO CHIPS......YOU CAN NEVER HAVE JUST ONE"
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Old January 5th, 2005, 01:08 PM
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whinnie-boo whinnie-boo is offline
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THANK-YOU

I love to show off my BYB pups, don't you know??? They are the most beautiful things...as is OUR ANGEL . I'll share with you until I get my own
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2 Female American Red-Nosed Pit-Bull Terriers:
Whinnie Age 3
Boo-Boo Age 1 1/2
2 Medium Haired All Black Cats:
Robert Age 1 1/2
Mango Age 2 1/2
"PIT-BULLS ARE LIKE POTATO CHIPS......YOU CAN NEVER HAVE JUST ONE"
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Old January 5th, 2005, 02:23 PM
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Schwinn Schwinn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whinnie-boo
THANK-YOU

I love to show off my BYB pups, don't you know??? They are the most beautiful things...
They are very cute. Are they pure pitties? Just curious the story behind the BYB (just courious, so feel free to tell me to MYOB!)
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Old January 5th, 2005, 02:53 PM
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whinnie-boo whinnie-boo is offline
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Easier said then done Schwinn. When I got Whinnie she was Pregnant & underweight. Until she went into labour I just thought she was getting fatter, and I was a great Mom. Needless to say she had pups, and I just have to joke, becuase I was in the Argentino Dogo thread, and I'm getting really fed up with the BYB garbage that everyone throws around when someone asks a question.
"DON"T BUY FROM THIS PERSON..... DON"T BUY FROM THAT PERSON" Everyone cares about making a point and not helping the animals. When I joined up again this year, I thought that for reasons I'd rather not get into that my Boo was pregnant, and I did not know who sired the Pups as I work all day to support my Dogs, I live in an apartment, and at the time an abortion was just not an option for me. So, I immediatley started to look for homes to place whatever these pups may have been. The moment I made a post about Boo being pregnant, everyone jumped down my throat, without using names, they did it to another member on this board the other day, who I consider one of the best members on this board. Boo isn't pregnant, Thank God. It just seems like we all let our opinions get out of hand, and we're doing nothing to help, just scaring people away with our attitudes and opinions. They all told me what an irresponsible, backyard breeding, inexperienced Pitbull owner I am, I don't deserve my dogs, and one thing led to another and I was denied adoption because of this reputation of being a BYB that I got because I had a possibly pregnant Pitbull posting on PETS.CA that I wanted to place these pups, not abort. Not everyone in this world is made of money, but that doesn't mean I don't love or care for my Girls to the best of my ability.
But, go back over all my posts and you'll see what I mean.
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2 Female American Red-Nosed Pit-Bull Terriers:
Whinnie Age 3
Boo-Boo Age 1 1/2
2 Medium Haired All Black Cats:
Robert Age 1 1/2
Mango Age 2 1/2
"PIT-BULLS ARE LIKE POTATO CHIPS......YOU CAN NEVER HAVE JUST ONE"
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Old January 5th, 2005, 04:04 PM
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Schwinn Schwinn is offline
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Thanks, Whinnie. Like I said, I was just curious, because I know what a bad word BYB is here, and I was surprised to see someone refer to themselves that way. Like I said, just being nosy, and I REALLY hope I didn't re-open any wounds and start something (Sorry if I did!).

At any rate, I'd have a hard time aborting them as well.
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Old January 5th, 2005, 07:35 PM
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DogueLover DogueLover is offline
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Thanks Whinnie

I think you have said what any of us on this board are maybe too afraid to voice. I give you so much credit for posting about how everyone jumps all over you when you mention getting a dog from a breeder, having a possible pregnant dog, and the other numerous things you can get jumped on by people on this board who I know only mean the best.

Unfortunately, there are others like you out there that would choose to have a dog that was pregnant have the pups instead of aborting them or having the dog go through surgery. Like ME.
If, for any reason, Angel got loose and had been bred and were to be pregnant with puppies from an unwanted litter I would do what was recommended by my vet, let her have the pups and put them to sleep when they are born. He told me that there are far more risks in giving them the pill that makes them abort them, and that there is a very specific time frame in which you can use it, and that he would NOT take them by spaying her......... the risks and complications with her breed and the anesthetic are far too great.

She isn`t pregnant, and she doesn`t get loose to roam on a regular basis, but anything can happen, even with your dog confined to your yard,,,,,, we have had other dogs in our yard, and I am not sure how they got in......... but had we been faced with the choices I know what mine would have been.

I think that you really hit the nail on the head when you posted about how whenever someone comes to the board asking for information there is just too much negative feedback given to them. Why not just answer the question they asked in a more positive fashion. Instead of jumping all over them about how they should be at a shelter taking in a dog from there, or giving them the opinion about how the breeder must be a BYB because they don`t have a waiting list, need I go on........... why not just tell them that you can`t help them....... and wish them luck on their search.
When I was looking for my Bordeaux, had I found a site that was so negative about finding a breeder of these dogs, I probably would have left and never wanted to return to a pet website offering "helpful advice" again.

Thanks again Whinnie! You inspire me to be a better person everyday
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Old January 6th, 2005, 07:51 AM
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Catt31 Catt31 is offline
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This has been an ongoing "issue" since probably before I started 2 years ago!!!! When people are passionate, they get their defenses up, and then the fur flies!! Many many people have left the board because of it - either tired of hearing it over and over again, or for being the brunt of an attack. And I say "attack" because it has gotten very nasty at times. That is part of the reason I usually keep quiet, and haven't been around too much!!! It gets tiresome!!

W-Boo, I'm glad you stuck it out with us!! Your babies are GORGEOUS!!!! I would never hesitate to have a pit bull in my home!!! And honestly, if I were in your situation, I would have done the EXACT same thing!!! You had no control over the pregnancy, but you did what was best for the babies!! Good on ya girl!!!!
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Old January 6th, 2005, 09:07 AM
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whinnie-boo whinnie-boo is offline
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Schwinn & Dougelover,

THANKS... I just thought it would be good to voice my opinion like everyone else does. Too often I see new members join and for some reason they don't last long. All I'm saying is there has to be a better way to adress some issues, and we all really need to understand that other people are not as knowledgeable as some on this board. People come looking for help, asking questions, and if its not something certian people approve of, the whole thread is simply negativity directed at whomever is asking the question. Because the first negative post starts and tons follow, and no one else wants to offer their advice or opinion to avoid getting in the middle.

Schwinn, I refer to myself as a BYB, because that is the reputation I've been given, from a few posts I write everyday. And from those few posts a few weeks ago, this rep. is still coming to bite me in the a**, on almost every post. I'm not ashamed of the fact that Whinnie herself came from some young punk who had no idea what he was doing. Or that My Boo came from Whinnie's litter. No one can change my opinion that they are the greatest dogs in the entire world, and I would not trade them for anything. Especially some "titled" dog that is used solely for reproducing. Because I allowed my Pit to have puppies, does not make me any less of a Mother to them both, or mean I don't love them too pieces. I would give anything for them both and they know that, just as I know they would for me. Anyone who knows me, or has met my girls knows what a wonderful Mom I am, and that I live for those 2 dogs and my 2 new cats. I'm not about to let the opinions of some, scare me away from what I love doing, helping animals. I thought that was what we were all her to do.

Dougelover, Special thanks to you for your comments, I have to get to SK, gonna look into it for summer Vacation. Its scary that somewhere in this world, there IS someone, just like me Then I'll finally get to meet MY precious This all started to really upset me when people started getting RUDE with you asking about ANGEL. Why they went off the way they did, I'll never know. What reason they have to believe that you are irresponsible, or you don't know what your doing, I have no idea. But they go off on how you should spay her, and no one will take pups and they'll end up in the pound....bla,bla,bla. When you clearly stated it was not your intention to breed her. I'll tell you something, I took 17 weeks to place Whinnies last pup, and we kept Boo in particular, because we thought she was a little slow, and we feared what would happen to her if we adopted her out. She's not a great learner. But, to this day I know where everyone of those pups is, and I see them as often as possible. I made people sign contracts stating they would not crop the tail or ears & have them medically tested before breeding. Also, if for some reason down the road they could not kep my Pup, they are to be returned to me, because God help the person who puts one of my kids in the pound. So, let people speculate as to what kind of owners we are, let them keep driving people away with negativity, and then sit and wonder where all the help is. Why people don't want to adopt from shelters or rescues, its damn near impossible, it seems easier to buy a home then rescue an animal. Most people turn to puppies, because the rescues go overboard with reasons you shouldn't have an animal, why you're not the ideal home... Who has the ideal home? There is just so much contradiction here, its unreal @ times. Needless to say, I still come because I have made some great friends here, Whin & Boo have found a ton of new Playmates, and I know what my intentions are, even if no one agree's with me. With the exception of 2 people on this board, no one personally knows me, its all just assumptions, based on a few lines we type everyday. Not to mention how often people rag on someone with out all the details, or the wrong details. Quick to judge, but not quick to ask more questions, and certainly not too quick to apologize when we're wrong.
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2 Female American Red-Nosed Pit-Bull Terriers:
Whinnie Age 3
Boo-Boo Age 1 1/2
2 Medium Haired All Black Cats:
Robert Age 1 1/2
Mango Age 2 1/2
"PIT-BULLS ARE LIKE POTATO CHIPS......YOU CAN NEVER HAVE JUST ONE"
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Old January 6th, 2005, 10:23 AM
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whinnie-boo whinnie-boo is offline
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Thanks Catt31. It is so true about members leaving, and its a shame. Think of how many more animals we could help if we weren't letting our attitudes get in the way.
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2 Female American Red-Nosed Pit-Bull Terriers:
Whinnie Age 3
Boo-Boo Age 1 1/2
2 Medium Haired All Black Cats:
Robert Age 1 1/2
Mango Age 2 1/2
"PIT-BULLS ARE LIKE POTATO CHIPS......YOU CAN NEVER HAVE JUST ONE"
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Old January 6th, 2005, 10:24 AM
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mastifflover mastifflover is offline
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Winnie I experienced the some of the same attitude when I joined here and some of the people were down right nasty. I decided that I would say what I thought about the attitude of people towards newbies and especially inexperienced dog and cat owners maybe they did not phrase the question properly but they are here because they need help or answers and do not need to be attacked for no reason. It did not go over very well either but there were a few who pm'd me and also felt the same way so do not be discouraged and just say what you believe and that cant be wrong and if someone doesn't like it ces't la vie. I would not ever consider you a byb you care about your dogs in fact you care about all animals passionately. You did what you felt was right and took the time to find the proper homes for your pups. Most byb's don't go to these lengths for the dogs they breed they just find homes that can afford the puppy you obviously spent the time to find the right owners and it was not about money that is the biggest difference and you would have kept the last pup if you never found the right owner that is the kind of person that you seem to be. So if I wrote anything that offended you I apologize because I really do think it is all about the animals finding forever homes and loving homes and I think we both agree on that. I think you are to be commended for putting yourself out there and going the extra mile and I admire that in you. Glad you are sticking it out just let the comment roll of your back don't let them get to you
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Old January 6th, 2005, 10:37 AM
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whinnie-boo whinnie-boo is offline
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Thank you Mastifflover, That is why I'm here, to help. I just wish everyones motives were the same. Just the other day I had it thrown in my face again by a member who had been away for a while...QUOTE "My first impression seems to be correct". Then things just get opened up again, and blown out of proportion. I was denied an adoption due to the fact that I have a Pitbull Puppy who had never seen a cat, and I was a BYB, so why would I want a cat. It hurts to think that these cats were denied a home based on a few lines I type everyday, without so much as a phonecall to get to the bottom of things.
The world is a horrible place, and there is nothing we can do about it. BYB will continue, as will animals being thrown out on the street, or into pounds & shelters, PureBreed "TITLED" dogs, mutts, and BYB animals. If we keep scaring people away, there will be no one here to help them, and thats why were here. To speak for those who can not speak for themselves.
If an animal is BYB, does that mean it doesn't deserve a loving home? SO, what would our members rather see? BYB litters in loving homes or Innocent puppies put to death because of the stupidity of a Human, or sheer accident. Accidents happen, I'd like to meet someone here, who has never, ever made a mistake, cause I highly doubt there is one.
Needless to say, Thank you for your kind words, They are very much appreciated for a change!! Have a great day!
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2 Female American Red-Nosed Pit-Bull Terriers:
Whinnie Age 3
Boo-Boo Age 1 1/2
2 Medium Haired All Black Cats:
Robert Age 1 1/2
Mango Age 2 1/2
"PIT-BULLS ARE LIKE POTATO CHIPS......YOU CAN NEVER HAVE JUST ONE"
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Old January 6th, 2005, 10:58 AM
sammiec sammiec is offline
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SOME GRAPHIC IMAGES


Lemme tell you why I am against BYB. Granted I don't know everything, never said I did...but this I do know.

I may come on strong sometimes, but that's me - like it or leave it. This is something that I am passionate about, as are others on this site. Many people that post here work with animals on a daily basis, they see the hurt, the heartache and worst of all - THEY are the people that are there for the animals as they lay dying on the table! I know there are people here that are great pet owners, I don't doubt that. I do however think that there are people here that are oblivious/ unknowing/ ignorant/ unknowledgable about the pain and suffering of these animals. It's hard to remain calm (I really do try) when I see posts that say "it's really not that bad". "So what if she had just one litter."

This is why:



There are plenty of animals miserable, lonely, scared, sad/ heart broken, some sitting in cramped and dirty conditions in shelters because their owners did not do the responsible thing like getting their animals spayed and neutered. Having a pet is a reponsiblility and with that responsibility comes caring for them and providing a safe and protected life. They cannot do this for themselves and need US to do it for them. Not only does not fixing your pet cause increased overpopulation but there are HEALTH factors for YOUR pet.
Quote:
What can you do to stop the suffering?
Spay and neuter your pet! In addition to saving lives, spaying and neutering can also drastically improve your pet's health and life expectancy. The idea that pets become fat or lazy when they are spayed or neutered is a myth. Sterilized pets lead healthier, longer lives. Spaying a female eliminates the possibility of uterine and ovarian cancer and greatly reduces the risk of breast cancer. Neutering a male reduces the risk of both prostate enlargement and prostate cancer. Neutering also will make your pet more affectionate and less likely to roam, get in fights, or become lost.
Doghause

Many puppy mills start out as BYB. They don't have qualifications, testing facilities and know-how to breed safely and respectfully. These dogs end up living in small cramped cages with another 5 dogs. It's absolutely heart wrenching and disgusting. Is this was you're saying is "alright"?

goldenretreiver.com

Please check out this article: Puppymills: What they are and what you can do about them

All BYB many not turn out like this, but definately contribute to the fact that there are just too many animals and not enough caring loving homes.

Yes, adopting an animal SHOULD be difficult! Just like adopting a child you're incharge of a LIFE! And how you treat and respect that life means everything! We all sit here and talk about how horrible people can be to their animals and what we want to do to help. The EASIEST thing you can do to help is have your animal SPAYED OR NEUTERED!!! These animals do deserve a home too.... but it's our job to try and help people understand WHY we don't agree with what they are doing or thinking of doing!

I don't mean offence to anyone, but this is an open public forum and we do reserve the right ot free speech.

And yes Whinnie Boo, I made a mistake. I apologized for it when I made that comment and even erased what I had said... but you can still use that against me if you like. Thanks.
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Old January 6th, 2005, 11:02 AM
LL1 LL1 is offline
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I agree with you sammiec - and I hope the dog has since been spayed. Having byb pups is nothing to brag about.
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Old January 6th, 2005, 11:55 AM
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whinnie-boo whinnie-boo is offline
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Firstly, I used no names in my post, so if its weighing on anyones mind that they passed judgement on me, and were proved wrong, I had a point to make and used an example with no names, for that reason.

Who in Gods name says I'm bragging, and who would put a 10 month old, 19-21 lbs dog under anastetic when you knew she would not make it through surgery? Who was beyond malnourished and doing better (said the vet) because she was pregnant. I'm not bragging about the fact of how they came to be, I'm simply not ashamed of them, and shouldn't have to justify why I rescued and allowed for a litter, which I placed responsibly, because people disagree with me. Because I could not have afforded an abortion for her at that time, what should I have done? Turned her over to be someone who could take care of/dispose of the Pups, and her, or do my best to care for her to the best of my ability? Throw her out the door because I didn't want responsiblity for this litter in the first place. And if I'm attacked for one reason or another, I have the right to defend myself. I know I'm a good Mom, and no one has the right to pass judgement on me, or anyone on this board who asks a question, unless they are willing to ask questions themselves to get the facts straight. My biggest pet peeve is that a majority of responses indicate that the original post was never read correctly, and we're going off on people with the wrong facts. Those incorrect facts stick in peoples minds, and get reflected from post to post. Causing the reputations that some people are getting. This "FIND ALL POSTS BY......" is a great resource that PETS.CA has provided us.
I WILL NEVER HAVE ANOTHER LITTER OF PUPPIES FROM MY GIRLS - 1 is fixed and the other is in for spay on Friday. But, again, I'm taking care of my family to the best of my ability, and no matter what, if I end up in a cardboard box on the street, no one will care for my dogs better then I do.
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2 Female American Red-Nosed Pit-Bull Terriers:
Whinnie Age 3
Boo-Boo Age 1 1/2
2 Medium Haired All Black Cats:
Robert Age 1 1/2
Mango Age 2 1/2
"PIT-BULLS ARE LIKE POTATO CHIPS......YOU CAN NEVER HAVE JUST ONE"
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Old January 6th, 2005, 12:03 PM
sammiec sammiec is offline
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I don't know why you're going off on a trantum WB. I merely posted my thought on BYB. That's all. You're case is different obviously.

And I'm sure that others might have known who you were refering to with your little gab:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whinnie-Boo
Just the other day I had it thrown in my face again by a member who had been away for a while...QUOTE "My first impression seems to be correct". Then things just get opened up again, and blown out of proportion.
Sorry for making a mistake, correcting it, and apologizing.

When vistors see this thread "BYB opinions" it should be seen that this activity is not something that our board condones. YOU did not breed Whinnie, I understand why you placed all those dogs and did not have them put down... I never passed judgement on you for Whinnie.

When you first posted here about Boo being pregnant you had already had a dog that had a litter and were expecting another one (as you thought), but things turned out differently, right? So that doesn't make you a BYB...
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Old January 6th, 2005, 12:15 PM
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whinnie-boo whinnie-boo is offline
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OK, Sammie, I also apologize, but as I stated it was an example, with which I never intended to expand on. That is the point I'm trying to make, things get carried over, and thrown in peoples faces, after the issue has been cleared up. My biggest issue is how we come down on others for not sharing our views, Please don't deny that you know how many members sign up, get told of and never come back. We're here to help the animals, and thats it, bottom line. I wasn't scared away as easily as others, because I can prove what a good mom I am, no questions asked, I have nothing to hide. Now I explained to you earlier the situation with Boo's pregnancy, but Honey, I have to work to support them, and I do it alone. I'd rather struggle and put things off sometimes as long as possible then ever considering parting with my kids.
So what if some next person can have them spayed immediatley, because they can afford it, does that mean they deserve my dog more then I do? Money is nice, but Love is what they need. Accidents happen, and you have to deal with what comes up, as it comes up. So, because of this reputation I pretty much feel like I'm wasting my time here, who wants help from a BYB Pitbull owner? and that exact phrase has been used on many threads, directed towards me. So, unlike others I'll defend myself, I have that right. Just as everyone has the right to their opinions, and posting bul**hit info about me without all the facts. If you really want to know Pm me and I'll answer any question you may have. Like I said....NOTHING TO HIDE....and if you really think about it, how many people are 100% honest here??????????
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2 Female American Red-Nosed Pit-Bull Terriers:
Whinnie Age 3
Boo-Boo Age 1 1/2
2 Medium Haired All Black Cats:
Robert Age 1 1/2
Mango Age 2 1/2
"PIT-BULLS ARE LIKE POTATO CHIPS......YOU CAN NEVER HAVE JUST ONE"
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Old January 6th, 2005, 12:18 PM
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Schwinn Schwinn is offline
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You're not a backyard breeder, any more than my buddy who built his car is an auto-maker! A breeder is someone who intentionlly breeds puppies, consistantly, with the sole purpose of selling them or giving them away! And while I think something needs to be done about the hundreds of animals that wind up in shelters every year, I also think a puppy has better chance at life, even if it winds up in a shelter, if it's allowed to live. (but hey, that's just my logic...) I'm not condemning anyone on thier decision to do otherwise, but that's how I feel. And I look at Daisy who spends 90% of her time sleeping or wagging her tail, and I can't help but think that there just might be one or two more homes out there that would make a dog just as happy. I don't see anything you've done that would justify being condemned by someone else. Some may choose to disagree (I, myself, think all pets should be spayed or neutered if you aren't breeding them or showing them. Except my fish. I have sausage fingers, and I'm not dextarious), but without disagreement, we wouldn't have debate. And I think 90% of the things are here where a disagreement arises boils down to one thing, opinion.

And since I'm on a roll, the whole thing with BYB confuses me as well. I see people say how irresponsible it is to be a BYB, or buy from one, when there are all these dogs in shelters, then talk about licensed or registered breeders. It seems to me that one is just as irresponsible as the other. Now, if you want to get into issues about health and such, that's different. But even then, I think it becomes an issue breeder to breeder. One may be more responsible than the other. Then if you want to get into "designer breeds", well, aren't they all? Is the American Bulldog not a cross between a terrier and a bulldog? Does responsibility lie in the fact that one is recognized by a sanctioning body, while the other isn't? I really like it here a lot, but I do admit that there seems to be certain groups that are attacked more than others, and I have to scratch my head. Maybe I'm not as knowledgable as others (I love dogs, and I've done a lot of reading on pitbulls as Daisy is part, but other than that, no, I haven't fully researched a lot of the other issues) but it really does seem to me sometimes that we choose who to condemn based soley on whether the shingle they hang in front of thier shop has some official stamp or something.

I'm just saying...
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Old January 6th, 2005, 12:24 PM
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Schwinn Schwinn is offline
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Wow. I started my reply before lunch, had to leave, came back and finished, so really it was done at 11:30.

Oh, and I'm sorry Whinnie that I started this up again...
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Old January 6th, 2005, 12:26 PM
LL1 LL1 is offline
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Good points! And BYB is a term used differently by most people - there is no true definition. And glad you brought up the licensed and registered breeders issue, since there is not such a thing. Registered dogs are just that, means nothing about the breeder tho. CKC registered dogs land in need of rescue - papers are no guarantee against being homeless or euthanized.

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Originally Posted by Schwinn
And since I'm on a roll, the whole thing with BYB confuses me as well. I see people say how irresponsible it is to be a BYB, or buy from one, when there are all these dogs in shelters, then talk about licensed or registered breeders. It seems to me that one is just as irresponsible as the other. Now, if you want to get into issues about health and such, that's different. But even then, I think it becomes an issue breeder to breeder. One may be more responsible than the other. Does responsibility lie in the fact that one is recognized by a sanctioning body, while the other isn't? ...
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  #20  
Old January 6th, 2005, 12:29 PM
sammiec sammiec is offline
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I think you're totally missing the point of my post Whinnie. I did in no way state that money is more important then anything. Nor did I state that "putting off" spaying and neuturing because of financial situations makes you a BYB! BUT, telling people it's alright that your dog is not spayed, just watch them carfully is not. As you know, things can happen out of your control. But preventing more unwanted puppies is something that CAN be.

Spaying and Neuturing should be mandatory for adopting an animal anywhere.. doesn't mean that you can't love your pet... but it does prevent any unwanted extra vet bills do to complications of labour, illness from cancers, prostate enlargements, etc. AND unwanted animals. Sure, puppies are cute... but no everyone thinks like we do. Many people don't want the burden after a certain period of time and just hand them over....some people are simply in it for the money... that's when Puppy Mills start and it's a vicious and unforgiving circle.

Like Schwinn stated, BYB's are people that are knowingly breeding their dog for money....
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  #21  
Old January 6th, 2005, 12:34 PM
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DogueLover DogueLover is offline
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See how this happens?

I think that Whinnie has had to defend herself too many times by people who just like to attack someone for not agreeing that all dogs have to be rescue dogs and only licenced breeders with registered dogs have the right to breed their dogs. Even though my dogue did come from a breeder who had registered titled dogs, she could have been considered a BYB because her dogs are not CKC registered.( Not because she didn`t register them with CKC because she couldn`t register them with CKC because they are not a recognized breed). I don`t think all the CKC registered breeders follow the code of ethics ............... I know of dogs that came from a puppy mill that all had registration papers so maybe the problem is with the process, and the individual.
How does the CKC govern their code of ethics? Do they check with the breeders and do home/kennel visits so that they know the code of ethics is being followed or do they just take the word of the breeder? Just curious as I don`t know and would like to ... and if you know of a breeder that is in question how do you get them to stop their practises?? I mean the one puppy mill was shut down because I reported them to the SPCA and the conditions were appaling............... but the litters were all registered with the CKC............. it just doesn`t make sense.

Whinnie, you inspire me .................. good for you for having the guts and determination to defend what you know in your heart........... we can all learn from you............ I know I have
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  #22  
Old January 6th, 2005, 12:49 PM
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whinnie-boo whinnie-boo is offline
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Exactly Sammie, most of the time I don't think anyone understands. Now I can give you plently of examples of people on this board who have called me just that....So, I'm not going overboard here taking things personally. But, I won't go there. I just finally had enough and yes...I'm having a tantrum, its well past due. For a while I was mad, then it just made me laugh, with every PM I got agreeing with me. So, it turned into a joke between me and another member who knows me that I'm the BYB. This whole Forum started on the sleeping animal thread and was moved over, so there are posts missing. Not all the facts again, has led LL1 to think I'm bragging. See what I mean.
I could care less what people think of me, I'm more concerned with the way that others are attacked, I'd gladly have anyone into my home to see my kids anytime, and We're constantly having playdates with Members of this board. What it comes down to has nothing to do with BYB opinions, I did not start this thread. It has to do with passing judgement on people without all the facts
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  #23  
Old January 6th, 2005, 12:54 PM
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mastifflover mastifflover is offline
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I think reputable breeders are few and far between anyone can call themselves a breeder just as anyone can say they are a rescue. I feel it is your job as a potential owner to do your homework and when you find a breeder you are comfortable with and will answer all your questions with confidence and willingness to give you information about anything you ask to me is the sign of a good breeeder. It is not law but most of the breeders who I have known or had dealings with put in their contract if the dog cannot remain in the owners home he/she will be returned to the breeder and some money may or may not change hands that depending on reasons. I know a breeder who went and took one of her dogs back because the new owners lied about the dog being a pet and kept in the home. She drove by on several occasions to see how the dog was doing and everytime the dog was tied up outside after the 4th drive by she left a note asking them to call. They did and she drove over gave them their money back and left with her dog. That is a reputable breeder she genuinely cares about her litters and keeps in contact with many of them. And yes she also does rescue.
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  #24  
Old January 6th, 2005, 12:58 PM
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whinnie-boo whinnie-boo is offline
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DOUGELOVER.....THANK-YOU.

You go girl, this is why I haven't left the board, people like you and of course your ANGEL who I can not get enough of. No one seems to understand that I'm not throwing a tantrum, I've finally grown the balls to defend myself, and mostly to defend you and your angel!!
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Boo-Boo Age 1 1/2
2 Medium Haired All Black Cats:
Robert Age 1 1/2
Mango Age 2 1/2
"PIT-BULLS ARE LIKE POTATO CHIPS......YOU CAN NEVER HAVE JUST ONE"
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  #25  
Old January 6th, 2005, 01:06 PM
mesaana mesaana is offline
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Hello

I've been following these threads with interest. Before I even came on this forum, I already had a good idea of how you should get new pets: rescue (or humane society) or a good breeder. My definition of a good breeder seems to include something I don't see many people mention: working titles. Conformation titles are all well and good but I don't think they are sufficient. What do I mean by working titles? My definition is large. Anything from basic obedience to shutzhund to agility to herding, etc. It really depends on the breed of dog and the interest of the breeder. But I think it's important because it proves your well-bred dog is also a dog who has parents who have proven they can learn. Any comments on that?

Also, Whinnie, I understand where you come from... When I adopted my Rottie from the SPCA, she was pregnant... I didn't know. She was in heat when I got her so I was waiting for her 2 months before getting her spayed and came home one day and she had had 1 puppy. I found a good home for him and then had her spayed. She stayed with me for years and died in the fall of osteosarcoma (bone cancer).

Lyne
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  #26  
Old January 6th, 2005, 01:07 PM
LL1 LL1 is offline
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Absolutely - excellent post! Some shelters now are putting rescues through an approval process to be able to pull dogs - and I think it's a great idea, I wish all of them did it. TAS has an extensive screening now as does Hamilton SPCA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mastifflover
I think reputable breeders are few and far between anyone can call themselves a breeder just as anyone can say they are a rescue. I feel it is your job as a potential owner to do your homework and when you find a breeder you are comfortable with and will answer all your questions with confidence and willingness to give you information about anything you ask to me is the sign of a good breeeder.
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  #27  
Old January 6th, 2005, 01:25 PM
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CyberKitten CyberKitten is offline
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I hardly think of you as a BYB Winnie. And I really think there are not too many of at least my definition of a BYB who post here. (Most BYB would not take the time to be concerned about the animal's heath). Some people - through no fault of their own end up with kittens or puppies. I myself have been in that situation - rescued kittens whose mother was killed. I was not a breeder and it is not a role I want. Real breeders do not make money from what they do. Rather, it is a costly venture and they do it out of love for the breed.

I think though that because we all love animals so much that when we see someone post a question about health that affects our own morality and practices that our strongly held opinions lead us to wonder about the raison d'etre behind the question and why the person may not have already taken the pet to the vet, that kind of thing.

messanna, I am not sure what you mean by "working titles". I define titles by the pet's pedigree. If you mean animals who work - like sheep dogs, border collies who herd on a farm, even mousers I suppose, I am not sure that is a title as much as what the animal does. My father, whose parents had a hobby farm and adores animals, still has that mentality of many in his generation that an animal work for their keep and used to tease me about my "stock" when my bunny was alive.

I do think that if you want to adopt, it id good to know the background of the parents if that's what you mean. But I have to say that the kittens I raised - whose parents I really did not know - proved to be excellent and were well socialized. I sometimes felt like Gosling and his ducks mind you, lol
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  #28  
Old January 6th, 2005, 01:36 PM
mesaana mesaana is offline
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Cyberkitten,

Maybe I should have specified I meant that for dogs. I don't believe there are any such titles for cats (I don't think the cats would tolerate it ) What I meant is, for example, an obedience title, like CD (Companion Dog) where the dog undergoes obedience trials. But I'm not limiting it to obedience, which is why I mentioned the rest, agility, etc. I do not mean that the dog has to work for a living. (Although I'm a big believer in including obedience in everyday life and I think most dogs love to have "jobs").

Hope that clarifies what I meant

Lyne
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  #29  
Old January 6th, 2005, 01:41 PM
Lucky Rescue Lucky Rescue is offline
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Quote:
I made people sign contracts stating they would not crop the tail or ears & have them medically tested before breeding
Breeding? You are allowing people who adopted your BYB puppies to breed irresponsibly bred, unregistered, and untitled pit bulls? Aren't there enough of them in the shelters and rescues already?

I know your dog was pregnant when you got her (what's the reason Boo was never spayed?) but allowing this cycle of irresponsible breeding (of pit bulls in ON, of all places) to continue is compounding the tragedy of this breed that is overpopulated and dying in large numbers specifically because people are doing exactly this.

It was your responsibility to rectify the situation by either having the puppies spayed/neutered before adoption (the fee would cover the cost) or having adopters sign a contract stating they would do so by a certain age and enforcing it.

Are you going to be responsible for all the puppies you may have had or will have a hand in creating?


Estimating the single litter of one dam = 7 puppies
with 5 of those puppies producing offspring: 5 x 35 = 175 Span Tabulations Total # Dogs
1st Generation 7 7
2nd Generation 5 x 35 175
3rd Generation 175 x 35 6,125
4th Generation 6,125 x 35 21,4375
5th Generation 21,4375 x 35 7,503,125
6th Generation 7,503,125 x 35 26,261,060
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  #30  
Old January 6th, 2005, 01:45 PM
sammiec sammiec is offline
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Oh, I missed that. Good eye LR.
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