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Old June 16th, 2011, 02:22 AM
pattymac pattymac is offline
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Breeders Who Charge Alot More for Registered Pups!!

My friend decided to buy a GSD pup off Kijiji from a 'breeder' I use the term lightly, there's alot they say/do that I don't agree with. Now the pup isn't registered, they told my friend it cost alot to register a pup so they'd have to charge more. Well I looked on the CKC website, amazing how much info is out there if you want to know! Costs anywhere from 20 to 40 dollars give or take, depending on age of pup at registration. They were pretty much doubling the price for registered! Such a load of bull crap. Now I know breeders charge more for a dog with breeding rights which makes sense. These people don't but they want to pick the stud as they claim to be fussy on the dogs their dogs are bred with. They also supposedley have a lifetime warranty against genetic defects...wonder how they honour that.
Here's the website: www.giantgermanshepherdscanada.wordpress.com
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Old June 16th, 2011, 09:09 AM
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Ya, that's a crock about the cost of registration, but even a legit breeder might charge a lot for a dog intending to be shown, and subsequently bred (or just bred in this case because they don't breed to standard). That's a good thing, imo, because it will discourage some of the really unsavory people out there from buying the dog for use in a puppymill. And it's not an unusual thing that the breeder wants to control any subsequent bloodlines bred to. They're trying to preserve the integrity of their lines. Whether or not they're doing a good job is something else again--your friend needs to check the pedigrees very carefully to make sure the lines aren't being bred too close.

Lifetime warranty is usually for the original purchase price and the dog returned to the breeder. What happens to it then is up to the breeder. It isn't a warranty I'd ever have the stomach to cash in on... There are exceptions, though. Evan had some terrible problems and we never even considered sending him back, but the agent who supervised the litter (the breeder had recently passed away) refunded our purchase price anyway. So Evan, poor baby, only cost us about $6500 that first year instead of $7300.

Hmmm...the outfit your friend is going with only breeds when people ask...but they're selling pups on Kijiji? Is your friend at least going to go look at the litter in person before committing to a pup?
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Old June 16th, 2011, 09:22 AM
Longblades Longblades is offline
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I haven't checked the website but perhaps you could provide your friend with the CKC information and advise him/her to report these "breeders" to them. That is strictly against CKC rules. It is illegal, I think, at the very least the CKC does not allow their members, or anyone, to even claim to have purebred dogs if they don't register them and registration papers must be provided to the purchaser within 6 months of acquiring the dog.

I'm not a breeder. Can a CKC breeder chime in? CKC because I believe there are few differences in the U.S. with their AKC.

Huge red flags, tell friend to watch out. For one thing, I'm pretty sure there is NO such thing as "giant german shepherds" accepted in the CKC. I just checked and shilohs are not recognized by the CKC.

ETA: I looked at the website. These people are likely not even talking about CKC registration but rather one of these other registries: http://www.canadasguidetodogs.com/shiloh.htm#reg
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Old June 16th, 2011, 09:23 PM
Etown_Chick Etown_Chick is offline
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It's illegal in Canada to offer a dog as purebred without registration papers, or to charge different amounts for registered and non-registered pups from the same litter.
The 'breeders' know this, but a lot of the buyers do not.
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Old June 16th, 2011, 10:01 PM
pattymac pattymac is offline
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Well picked up the pup today, she looks and acts like she's gonna be a very smart dog. I hope my friend does right by her. Of course, a few red flags went up in my mind, any body who tells me that I have to pin or roll my dog to 'scare' them and make sure they know who's boss is not someone I want to associate with and I told my friend that. She didn't get a receipt either..BIG FLAMING RED FLAG WARNING BELLS SIRENS ALARMS!! They don't worm their dogs and the dogs eat raw deer, nothing wrong with raw..but deer meat needs to be frozen to kill the parasites. Puppy is skinny, she is going to the vet early next week. She did get her shots. I really hope that this pup doesn't get sick, giardia or some other nasty intestinal thing.

She is a little sweetie though and she slept on me for part of the trip home. Heheh, I'm only used to my cats snuggling under my chin and kept expecting to hear purring!! Bayley was well past the snuggling age when I got her...damn now I want a puppy!!! I gotta wait though, new landlord, gotta make sure he's cool with it and I don't have the $$ yet!
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Old June 16th, 2011, 10:04 PM
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For starters as mentioned above what they're doing is illegal.

Secondly, from looking at their website, how fast can you friend run away? They provide no info on their breeding stock, no health checks (so very important in a breed with so many problems like the GSD), all info is very vague and only suggestive. I find their claim that they sell to the RCMP very hard to believe. Does that mean that they sold a pet to a guy who's an RCMP officer? A lot of the RCMP dogs come from internal breeding programs or are imported from Europe.

I wouldn't be giving these people a penny for a paper clip, never mind buying a pup from them.
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Old June 16th, 2011, 10:16 PM
pattymac pattymac is offline
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I know..but people want so people get...warnings fall on deaf ears. The girl claimed that these dogs sold for police work, the officers let them run rampant for 6 months and then start training the dogs...umm ya right, somehow from what I know, that just doesn't happen! I hope for her sake she doesn't have any issues with this pup, cause something tells me she ain't gonna get any help from the breeder. She didn't even get a signed bill of sale or signed contract. Now she did keep all the emails between her and the breeder which is good..but I have a feeling that any problems that might crop she'll have a hell of a time getting any compensation. I'm wondering if suddenly, they're going to be very hard to get a hold of, not returning calls or replying to emails.
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Old June 16th, 2011, 11:42 PM
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I completely know who this "breeder" is, not personally but through friends in the GSD world and other forums... sadly anyone who falls for the "guarantee" can safely just wipe their rear end with it and flush it down the toilet with the rest of the crap this person will feed anyone anything for a potential sale.
Run away is all the advice I have for your friend other than what has been stated already how it is ILLEGAL to do what they are doing
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Old June 17th, 2011, 09:51 AM
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These dogs look like mongrels. Also Canada uses Belgian Malinois not German shepherds because they are more agile, faster and healthier.
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Old June 17th, 2011, 11:32 AM
pattymac pattymac is offline
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Thanks everybody. For the pups sake I hope nothing happens to her. I know when I first looked at the website, alarm bells went off. It's too bad that people don't do their research and just look at the cute puppy pictures and go aaaaawwwwwweee! Funny, I'm looking to get a Shepherd later on, I look at the adult pics first. They ain't gonna stay pups for long and I want to see what I should be expecting from an adult. I found an American breeder yesterday from the pedigree database site. Beautiful dogs, nice straight backs and the normal size for a Shepherd. All are titled, hips etc done, pedigrees available etc and pups aren't too expensive.

I don't want some oversized beast of a dog that will be prone to all sorts of health issues down the line. I want a dog that will be around for a few years. Bayley's 5 now and so far so good, she doesn't show any signs of joint issues because I don't know her parents I always worry I know I gotta get a few pounds off her, we both became major couch potatoes this past winter.
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Old June 17th, 2011, 01:58 PM
Choochi Choochi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cell View Post
These dogs look like mongrels. Also Canada uses Belgian Malinois not German shepherds because they are more agile, faster and healthier.


Actually no. Majority of the protection trained or dual purpose dogs in Canada (OPP and RCMP) are GSDs, they also use labs and spaniels for some detection work. In Canada as in many US states there is a long standing tradition of using GSDs for police work and those departments will not even entertain the idea of purchasing a Mal, they're convinced they're an inferior breed. You will see Mals used by private security and detection companies in Canadada.
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Old June 17th, 2011, 02:18 PM
Longblades Longblades is offline
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Yup to Choochi

Quote:
RCMP Police Dog Services only uses purebred German shepherds for General Duty teams. Other breeds may be used for Specialty Detection teams.

Male dogs are favoured but some females are chosen. In addition to being in perfect physical condition, they must have particular personality traits which make them suitable for police work: even temperament, hunting instinct and sound character are essential. All RCMP dogs are taught to protect their handlers, themselves or to apprehend upon command. Any that display reluctance to do so are not accepted.

The German shepherd breed displays the versatility, strength and courage that makes it eminently suitable for Canadian police work. Their heavy coats allow them to work under extreme climatic conditions. In addition, their presence seems to have an inhibitive psychological effect on potential wrongdoers. German shepherds trained to apprehend will invariably make a successful arrest despite the fact they are trained only to hold, never to be savage.
From: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/depot/pdst.../index-eng.htm

ETA: If you visit this website be sure to check out the Case History section. It's on the right hand side. Very impressive.

ETAA: Our friend was a detector dog handler with the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources. They took their training with the OPP. We saw her graduation photo. There she was, a little yellow Lab (not really little for a Lab) surrounded by the other dogs who were all OPP dogs and all great BIG GSD. That was a while ago though.

Last edited by Longblades; June 17th, 2011 at 04:56 PM.
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Old June 17th, 2011, 06:52 PM
pattymac pattymac is offline
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I may just put my name on their list for pups!! We won't be too far from Innisfail and you can't go wrong for $500.00. At least I'll know where the pup really comes from!! I definately want to go to one of their dog demos!!
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Old June 17th, 2011, 06:56 PM
pattymac pattymac is offline
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I was reading some interesting stuff on these oversized Shepherds on the Pedigree Database forun. Seems like most Shepherd people wouldn't give one a second glance and there's no way they'd be used for police work. One person, that sounded like they either train police dogs or is a canine officer stated there's no way a 130 pound Shepherd could scale a 6 foot wall without help, let alone handle a long foot chase!
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Old June 18th, 2011, 09:00 AM
Choochi Choochi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pattymac View Post
I was reading some interesting stuff on these oversized Shepherds on the Pedigree Database forun. Seems like most Shepherd people wouldn't give one a second glance and there's no way they'd be used for police work. One person, that sounded like they either train police dogs or is a canine officer stated there's no way a 130 pound Shepherd could scale a 6 foot wall without help, let alone handle a long foot chase!
This person breeds 130lb shepherds?? wow I didn't read in that much detail. That is so wrong, and yes, no way on earth a dog like that would ever even be considered for police work of any type due to it's size. Never mind the dog wouldn't be able to do the work as pattymac said, but even if the dog was going into detection duties a dog that size almost guarantees health trouble down the road. Considering the police dept would be putting tens of thousands of dollars and countless hours of training into this dog, having a dog that can be in the prime of life for as long as possible and able to work is very important.
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Old June 18th, 2011, 02:05 PM
pattymac pattymac is offline
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Not this person but I read that on the GSD forum on Pedigree Database.
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Old June 19th, 2011, 08:08 PM
Longblades Longblades is offline
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Do these people breed Havanese as well?
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Old June 19th, 2011, 09:25 PM
pattymac pattymac is offline
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don't know, but wouldn't surprise me
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Old June 19th, 2011, 10:19 PM
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not even gonna touch on the red flags here and advertising litters on kijiji.......but, in regards to the registered vs. non-registered pups prices, sellers advertising animals as purebred (registered or eligible to be registered) are obligated to provide registration papers to the buyer within 6 months of the date of sale. You can look up the exact wording if you search for the Animal Pedigree Act. I looked into it when I was trying to get papers on a horse I had gotten as a weanling whose registration was "pending". I took 2 weanlings on a deal where I kept them both at my expense for a 2 year term and could then take my pick to keep and return the other. When the 2 years were up I had assumed the papers would be transferred to me but they hadn't even gone through the registry yet. It took me another 2 years of chasing after the breeder and getting the registering association involved before I finally got them. During that time I researched the Animal Pedigree Act. And I also found out that the breeder was advertising lots of horses with papers pending because she wasn't bothering to spend the money to do the registrations.
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Old June 28th, 2011, 10:20 PM
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It is so very sad that there are so many uneducated people when it comes to the research of purebred dogs.

As it was stated by a few, it IS illegal to sell pups unregistered from registered parents. It's also illegal for the seller to charge more for a registered pup and charge less for an unregistered pup. There are three parts to registering. One is the litter. Second is each pup and third is the new owner.

WOW. No contract? HUGE red flag there. I really hope all is well with this pup. And I really hope your friend took the pup to the vet once she got it. This is always a must when getting a new pup.

Also. There is no such thing as a 130lb GSD. They have come up with this Shilo breed and stating they are brining back the "old" GSD. Not even close. They were never ever a "huge" breed. My current GSD is a retired police dog. My brother was his handler. If he weighed that much, he would not have made it on the force.

The RCMP do use the Mal in Police work. We also use them on the forces here. The term we use is General Purpose Police Dogs.
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Old June 29th, 2011, 02:42 AM
pattymac pattymac is offline
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She did take the pup in for her shots...I really really hope she doesn't decide to breed her...From what I've seen, a real well bred Shepherd shouldn't be much bigger thanBayley, my dog. She's about 22" and around 70 pounds. Males of course would be taller and heavier.
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