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Old June 16th, 2007, 04:22 PM
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Question Belgian Shepherds

Does anyone know anything about belgian shepards? We went to see some puppies today and they were awesome, all seemed very intelligent... but one of them had this tuft of fur growing on her bottom eye lid (on the outside). Also all of the males(2) only have 1 testicle. That doesn't really matter to us because we are only looking for a new puppy for my grandfather, (his dog died 2 years ago) and from what we can tell, was a belgian shepard. I'm looking for a bit of backround on the breed and maybe some information on training for them. Here is a beautiful picture of some of them...
They are CKC registered and microchipped etc but I would rather get one from a shelter. SO, my other question is, do you think it is rare that this breed would be in a shelter? I know this statement seems a bit harsh.. I mean I hope this isn't the case but it would be better to rescue than buy from a breeder right?
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Last edited by Misery's company; June 16th, 2007 at 04:28 PM.
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Old June 16th, 2007, 04:44 PM
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Belgians come in four varieties and they all are fairly different. I know a lday who breeds Tervs and has wonderful dogs. You could try single breed rescues.. But random shelters won't happen to get Belgians. I wouldn't support that breeder though wanting a pet or not..

To get a litter of cryptoid males, meant dad was one too, and that's pretty skeazy. I'd use the stickies in this section and try to find an ethical great breeder, if the shelter situation doesn't work out.
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Old June 16th, 2007, 04:46 PM
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Misery,it all depends on the breeder,these pups are adorable,there is nothing wrong in buying from a REPUTABLE breeder,not a back-yard-breeder(BYB)if your dad prefers this breed and there are none available at any shelter.
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Old June 16th, 2007, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiaprincess View Post
Belgians come in four varieties and they all are fairly different. I know a lday who breeds Tervs and has wonderful dogs. You could try single breed rescues.. But random shelters won't happen to get Belgians. I wouldn't support that breeder though wanting a pet or not..

To get a litter of cryptoid males, meant dad was one too, and that's pretty skeazy. I'd use the stickies in this section and try to find an ethical great breeder, if the shelter situation doesn't work out.
Actually it is the mother that carries the gene for cryptoid!

Belgian shepherds are part of the herding breed and are very active dogs. They require serious training and lots of exercise for both body and mind.
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Old June 16th, 2007, 08:57 PM
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All of the cryptiods I've ever known were off cryptoid sires..
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Old June 16th, 2007, 11:12 PM
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Belgians are beautiful. You'll have to excuse my spelling, but the 3 most common varieties are the Tervuren (puppies you have pictured), Groendale (solid black) and malinois (short coated with similar colouring to the Tervuren). The lakinois is a curly coated variety not that common in North America.
They're all fairly tall dogs, high, high energy, high prey drive and very intelligent. Need lots of exercise and training. The Tervuren and rhe Groendale will need lots of grooming as well to keep the coats matt free.
Think carefully before you commit to a puppy, as like a golden, lab or shepherd, they're going to be at least 3 years old before they start to really calm down from the hyper puppy stage. I love all the belgians, but way too active for our household.

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Old June 17th, 2007, 12:59 AM
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Hello there! I dont know much about the breed...I remember though my vet saying that if both testicals were not down then the neuter is more expensive...As for the breed have you searched that breed on

www.petfinders.org

I did and there are a few available in rescue's!

Good Luck

Cindy
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Old June 17th, 2007, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mafiaprincess View Post
All of the cryptiods I've ever known were off cryptoid sires..
Really???

The first question my vet asked me when we talked about breeding was about the puppies from the dams previous litter. He wanted to know if the males were one or two nut boys...sorry that is exactly how he put it.

They were all two nut boys.

He told us it was the mother who carried the gene and that since all were normal she was fine.

It would certainly make sense though a one testicle male would for sure carry the fault. Common sense tells us that right???

I do not know just stating what my vet told me.

Yukon our stud is a two testicle boy and Ebony's previous male pups all had two so guess we do not need to worry.




Curiosity has me on the hunt now just to see:

http://www.dogstuff.info/cryptorchidism.html

This link seems to indicate that it all starts from a sire {male} with one testicle but the females carry the gene in the litter as well and can pass it on to their puppies if bred.

So if I read that properly it would make us both right! Not that right or wrong matters....I am just interested in knowing that is all!


But you would be more right if it is the sire who started it all way back somewhere. LOL
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Old June 17th, 2007, 11:54 AM
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In talking to other breeders, it seems we are both right. It's a little bit of an iffy one on exactly where it comes from. I've only ever seen the direct repercussions of breeding a 1 ball male..

(I don't breed) I didn't know it went beyond that. Thank you for the additional info
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Old June 17th, 2007, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misery View Post
I mean I hope this isn't the case but it would be better to rescue than buy from a breeder right?
If you ask me , yes it is better to adopt a rescue ! And this dog is for your grandfather, I really think it would be best for him to adopt an older dog rather than a puppy. Puppies are hard work , and others have stated that this breed is high energy , maybe a puppy would be too much for your grandfather. It would need lots of exercise and walks and exercise again. If you adopt from a rescue, the foster family will tell you if their dog is right for your grandfather's lifestyle , you know ?

As Winston mentioned , petfinder is the best place to start your search. Good luck !
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Old June 17th, 2007, 01:01 PM
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Having lived with a Belgian (groenendael) I can tell you that these dogs are extremely intelligent, very high energy, high prey drive and difficult to train. They want to work. (and work and work and work). How old is your grandfather? Can he provide the dog with upwards of 5 hours of exercise a day? Can he provide mentally stimulating activities? Is he ready for running the whole gamut of obedience? Level one and two isn't enough, these dogs need to go all the way.
That being said, they are lovely dogs. They will worship the ground you walk on if they respect you.
I wouldn't buy a dog from this breeder. I would buy a dog from a breeder, just not that one. Belgians tend to get sent to Belgian rescues, or to breeders who also rescue. The BSDCC lists dogs available for rescue, and also links to Belgian rescues: http://rescue.bsdcc.org/
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Old June 19th, 2007, 02:48 AM
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I have to agree that a Belgian may not be the breed for your Grandfather. Yes, they are cuties. But, as the others have said ~ LOTS of grooming. LOTS of exercize, LOTS or training and stimulation is needed way past the puppy stage. My grrrls are part Belgian ~ these are high-maintenance dogs. I agree with Frenchy an older dog may be just what your Grandfather is looking for to "age gracefully with" at his side.

Last edited by mummummum; June 19th, 2007 at 03:17 AM.
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Old June 19th, 2007, 09:12 AM
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Just an additional info here, the Malinois is used as a police dog in Belgium, the Netherlands and France to a degree as well. It is not a breed I would recommend for someone who is not very ective themselves and very used to training intelligent dogs!

But they are so gorgeous, it's easy to forget the amount of work involved to get a well trained dog and wonderful pet.
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Old June 19th, 2007, 09:40 AM
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Misery (I can't believe you deserve that handle), yes, please think about adopting an older rescue dog, your grandfather will have a friend for life, without all the mad training walking grooming bitey-ness of a puppy. You could do a bit of research and then take him to meet a few in your area, to make sure the chemistry is good. So many beautiful dogs need homes and cannot compete with cute puppies.
I've never seen a Belgian shepherd, but they are magnificent.

Oh wait, misery loves company?
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Old June 19th, 2007, 02:09 PM
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Hey guys, thanks for all the replies. As for my grandfather's age, he is not quite 70 but that is pretty much 50 in his books. He had a belgian before and it was trained well. Example - he was a volunteer firefighter and one day rode his 4wheeler to near where the fire was. He told Ben (Benita cleo) to stay on the bike. 2 hours later, when he was finished, Ben was still there. He is very into training, and Ben was a beautiful dog. I think, if anything, this will make him younger... I don't believe we are getting a puppy from her. Too many obvious health issues, however we may just be waiting another week so he can think it over...
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Old June 19th, 2007, 05:05 PM
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Profuse apologies! I knew I was making an assumption; come to think of it, people are probably making those assumptions about me, since I am of your grandfather's generation.
Down with stereotypes and let us know what happens.
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Old June 19th, 2007, 05:19 PM
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Badger,I am 63 and hoping by the time I am 70,I will feel not much different.
I could probably handle a puppy,if the cats would let me,I would be more concerned about the dog/cat outliving me:sad:
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Old June 19th, 2007, 05:25 PM
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That is what he is worried about as well... makes me sad to think about it.
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Old June 19th, 2007, 05:32 PM
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Misery,that's why an older abandonned dog,in my opinion would be perfect,a dog who would thank your granddad for the rest of his life for giving him a second chance
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Old June 19th, 2007, 05:51 PM
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I know this sounds mean (and sad), but he only wants a puppy(he says training purposes) and has been waiting for 2 years to get one like these. He is very set on getting a When Ben died, I didn't think that he would ever get another dog, but I haven't seen him this excited about even just the idea of getting another dog since he got Ben.
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Old June 19th, 2007, 08:31 PM
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Well Misery if you think YOUR post was mean (and sad) wait till ya read mine. in advance.

Given that your Grandfather is 70, you will need to have a heart-to-heart with him about making provisions in his will for sufficient assets/ finances to cover the dog's ( I don't know... boarding ? food ? Unforeseen Vet fees ? Licences ? Annual shots ? Eventual euthanasia ? and so on) remaining years when your grandfather has passed on. No disrespect to your grandfather and how hale and hearty he is now, but the lifespan for North American, middle-class white males is averages out to be 82. It is significantly lower for men of African or Hispanic heritage.
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Old June 19th, 2007, 09:06 PM
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Ouch is right. I am quite positive that if neccessary I would take the dog, but I don't think that would be necessary... (i hope anyway) . Anyway, I don't think he is getting one of these pups anyway, which makes me sad because they are so smart and beautiful...
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Old June 19th, 2007, 09:09 PM
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Misery, there so many great dogs in rescues, waiting to be adopted . Your grandfather could find himself a nice companion, 5-6 yr old or older ?
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Old June 19th, 2007, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
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Ouch is right. I am quite positive that if neccessary I would take the dog, but I don't think that would be necessary... (i hope anyway) .
And we always hope our elders will live for many, many years healthy and well. Unfortunately that doesn't always happen. Please understand I really do mean no disrespect to you or your Grandfather and don't know anything of your circumstances.

But, as an adult I have lived through raising my own puppies twice ~ it's hard, hard work and it goes on for YEARS. And it's expensive. Last year my Vet bills were over six thousand. This year's totals will be well over that as I just spent $4000 on one dog. Are you certain you can take on the care and custody of a (as you say, hopefully) Senior dog who may live another five years or more?

to go on about this I truly hope you will make a GIGANTIC effort to talk to your Grandfather about adopting a dog rather than a puppy. If he wants living testimony about adopting older dogs, I'll happily tell him all about Declan my wonder dog who I adopted at guestimate age 8 (or was it 9).
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Old June 19th, 2007, 09:58 PM
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I understand for sure. My dog was 2 and 1/2 when I got her, so I don't see the need necessarily to get a puppy either but the way my grandfather is, he likes to do all of the training. I will try to show him the way but am uncertain as to how he would react...
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Old June 19th, 2007, 10:08 PM
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Thanks Misery ~ that makes me feel a little better. I just have "visions of the future" and they ain't pretty. :sad:

And the offer is open, I'll be happy to email your Grandfather ~ and I'll bet lots of folks here who have fostered or adopted older dogs would too ~ about my extremely positive experiences with Declan and some of the other older dogs who have been a part of my life.

And I know this is totally unfair of me but (hehe) I can't resist ~ ask your Grandfather, as an "older dawg" whether HE can still learn "new tricks. Then ask him how he would feel if he was rejected for love, friendship and companionship simply because he is an "older dog".

And folks, that's why they call me an anti-social worker
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Old June 19th, 2007, 10:17 PM
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[QUOTE=mummummum;441329]
And I know this is totally unfair of me but (hehe) I can't resist ~ ask your Grandfather, as an "older dawg" whether HE can still learn "new tricks. Then ask him how he would feel if he was rejected for love, friendship and companionship simply because he is an "older dog".
[QUOTE]

That's awesome. I think he will be waiting for a while longer anyhow, but once he is looking again I will let him know. The death of Ben hit him really hard so I'm not sure that he is ready yet.

If so, there are some great options here in Saint john. When he does get a new dog, it would be a gsd mix for sure

Last edited by Misery's company; June 19th, 2007 at 10:24 PM.
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Old June 19th, 2007, 10:22 PM
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Maybe you could show him this picture , all but the black lab are older rescues , 2 are mine , one was adopted this past February. All extremely good dogs, youngest I adopted was 5-6 years old, the other was 8.

Last edited by Frenchy; September 9th, 2007 at 05:14 PM.
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Old June 19th, 2007, 10:31 PM
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They are absolutely beautiful! They all look so soft. I've always loved retrievers... I will show him this website the next time I go up there. When I get home (am at work now) I will post a pic of Ben as well. She is famous now... lol
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Old June 20th, 2007, 12:23 AM
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And if he thinks that an older rescue dog doesn't need as much reassurance and guidance as a puppy, remind him that some of these guys have been through multiple disappointments and the kind of one-on-one attention he can provide is exactly what they need. Many of them haven't had consistent training, or any training - which is often why many of them are surrendered in the first place, by people who don't want to put in the time - so his skills would definitely come in handy.
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