eosinophilic granuloma complex-LONG

[Kodster]

Hi everyone, I'm new here and have been searching high and low for someone that has any ideas that may help. We have a 2yr old Silver Marble Bengal boy with eosinophilic granuloma complex. We have done allergy testing, gotten the results and everything he is allergic to. Long list of allergies food and otherwise. This company gave us a list of foods that did not have the foods that he was allergic to in them. We've switched him to that. Actually he's done quite well with the food and intestinal problems have ceased to be an issue. Our problem is that he has "horrible hot spots", on his elbow/shoulder and one started on his tummy. He's been given depo medrol 4 times since November 07 and his last shot was May 08. We're in the process of desensitizing him with allergy shots. He's on his second bottle with only 2 injections left of that one and then on to the third which is his maintenance dose once per month. We have him on chlorpheniramine 2mg twice a day which seemed to stop his skin from crawling. We've got hepa air purifiers in just about every room of the house. I'm simply at my wits end. It's so hard to watch him be so miserable and outside of giving him depo medrol injections every 3 months I'm not sure what to do. I know the side affects of this and that too is scary and he's so young. He's a really sweet, sweet boy. He's a big boy, 24lbs of muscle....We've considered taking him to a dermatologist, it would be a long trip for him and for us and other than that we've done just about everything there is to do for him. Any other suggestions/ideas? Anyone else had the agony of living with a kitty that has this? I'm about as stressed as I can be worrying about this guy. I now worry about infection setting in on his newest spot. It's about the size of half dollar or bigger. We're calling the vet tomorrow to see if we need to get him in for another Depo Medrol. If anyone out there has had some experience with this I'd be open to suggestions. We are desperately looking for something to work on this boy. Thanks in advance!!!

[sugarcatmom]

Hi, welcome to the board. Sorry about the issues your having with your sweet boy. The first thing I'm going to ask about is the food. What does he eat now, and what did he eat before (canned? dry?). What foods were implicated in the allergy testing?

And you're right to be concerned about the Depo shots. For one, they don't do anything to solve the source of the issue, they just suppress the symptoms. Do you have a holistic vet in your area that you could consult? Personally, I would go that route rather than a dermatologist. What you're describing indicates an imbalance in your cats immune system and I think a holistic vet would be better able to look at your WHOLE cat, rather than just the skin issues.

[Kodster]

Originally Posted by sugarcatmom

Hi, welcome to the board. Sorry about the issues your having with your sweet boy. The first thing I'm going to ask about is the food. What does he eat now, and what did he eat before (canned? dry?). What foods were implicated in the allergy testing?

He has been on both dry and canned. He now eats California Natural Herring and Sweet Potato. There are only 2 dry foods listed on the allergy report that he can eat. He would not eat the Hill's Z/D (the only other dry food listed) although we may see about doing that again. He eats wet Science Diet Chicken in pouch, another food recommended on allergy report. His food allergy list is as follows. corn, green pea, peanut, lamb, flaxseed meal, flax, pork and white potato.

Originally Posted by sugarcatmom

And you're right to be concerned about the Depo shots. For one, they don't do anything to solve the source of the issue, they just suppress the symptoms. Do you have a holistic vet in your area that you could consult? Personally, I would go that route rather than a dermatologist. What you're describing indicates an imbalance in your cats immune system and I think a holistic vet would be better able to look at your WHOLE cat, rather than just the skin issues.

No we don't have a holistic vet anywhere close that I can find unless I'm not looking in the right place. Would rather take him to someone like that as I myself would usually rather see holistic people doc than MD. This is just so frustrating. My vet has expressed the same concerns about solving the source of this problem rather than masking it. Just don't know what to do....

[Love4himies]

Hi kodster, sorry to hear you are having some issues with your bengal boy . There is nothing I will be able to contribute to you for assistance, but would like to comment on sugarcatmom's knowledge on cats is second to none. Growler is another one of our cat gurus.

I sure would love to see a pic of your big boy, we are kinds pic addicts on this forum.

[Kodster]

Originally Posted by Love4himies

Hi kodster, sorry to hear you are having some issues with your bengal boy . There is nothing I will be able to contribute to you for assistance, but would like to comment on sugarcatmom's knowledge on cats is second to none. Growler is another one of our cat gurus.

Thanks for the warm welcome. We're so worried about him. Just found a spot starting on his left rear paw pad. To the vet tomorrow....

Originally Posted by Love4himies

I sure would love to see a pic of your big boy, we are kinds pic addicts on this forum.

Here he is on his second birthday. He's such a handsome boy. We love all our cats so much. They are pretty much our life.....

[chico2]

Kodster,he is a beauty for sure,I can sense your frustration and heartbreak,I hope you find a viable solution for your boy,hopefully a homeopathic vet

[sugarcatmom]

Originally Posted by Kodster

He has been on both dry and canned. He now eats California Natural Herring and Sweet Potato. There are only 2 dry foods listed on the allergy report that he can eat. He would not eat the Hill's Z/D (the only other dry food listed) although we may see about doing that again. He eats wet Science Diet Chicken in pouch, another food recommended on allergy report. His food allergy list is as follows. corn, green pea, peanut, lamb, flaxseed meal, flax, pork and white potato.

First of all, I wouldn't feed any dry food whatsoever. Especially not the Hill's Z/D. Very poor quality ingredients. I'd also stay away from anything Science Diet for the same reason (Hill's and Science Diet are the same company - owned by Proctor & Gamble). Here are the ingredients for Science Diet Tender Chunks in Gravy Chicken (not sure if that's the one you're feeding):

Ingredients
Water, Chicken, Liver, Wheat Flour, Soy Protein Isolate, Rice Starch, Wheat Fiber, Chicken Liver Flavor, Sunflower Oil (preserved with BHA), Beef Plasma Protein, Soy Fiber, Titanium Dioxide, Potassium Chloride, Calcium Chloride, Glucose, Choline Chloride, Guar Gum, Glycine, DL-Methionine, Caramel Color, ...

"Liver" is too ambiguous (could be from any animal, and should never be so high in the ingredient list), there are plenty of grain products that cats should not be eating, not to mention potentially carcinogenic preservatives like BHA, and that "Caramel Color" and "Titanium Dioxide" isn't there for any benefit to the cat. Glucose? Why the heck do they put glucose in there when cats don't even have taste buds to detect sweetness? I would stop feeding this ASAP, despite whatever recommendation the "allergy report" made.

The absolute best would be a home made raw diet, if you can. That gives you the ultimate control over the ingredients. Here is some info on that, if you're interested:
http://www.catnutrition.org/index.php
http://www.catinfo.org/

Next best would be a prepackaged raw that you buy from a pet food store (not a big-box store like Petco, but one of the independent mom-n-pop stores). Something with a novel protein source like rabbit or venison or duck would be ideal. I was going to recommend Nature's Variety, except it contains flax seed (although I also don't put a lot of weight in food allergy testing for cats as it tends to be unreliable).

If you can't, for whatever reason, feed raw, a quality canned food is next on the list. My recommendations would be one of the Innova Evo 95% meat flavours. If that isn't available in your area, you should be able to find By Nature at the nearest PetSmart. Both have simple ingredients, and are grain-free.

I firmly believe that diet is the cornerstone of health for cats, and nothing sold out of a vet clinic is going to properly meet the needs of any feline. For one, cats shouldn't be eating kibble at all as it's not appropriate on so many levels (see links above for reasons why). As well, vets are not the best source of nutritional info because they really don't get a substantial amount of training in school, and what they do get is often influenced by the Big Pet Food companies like Hill's or Royal Canin or Purina. Plus, they sell the crap in their clinics, so that right there is a conflict of interest.
http://catnutrition.wordpress.com/20...food-and-vets/
http://naturalcathealth.blogspot.com...ty-of-pet.html

Originally Posted by Kodster

No we don't have a holistic vet anywhere close that I can find unless I'm not looking in the right place.

Maybe this link will help, depending on where you live: http://www.holisticvetlist.com/ Or perhaps your vet can recommend someone?

[Kodster]

Thank you so much for all of your advice. I will discontinue the dry food. Should all my cats go off dry? Is that what you're saying? Actually if we don't feed to one we don't feed to another. We have a local pet store that started out for dogs and found there was a special need for cats that may carry the 95% EVO. I know they carry EVO as that's what he was on when he came to us from California. With 3 other cats being all stages of life I'm not sure raw is something we could do right now....
We have to take him to the vet tomorrow. His "hot spot" has gotten huge and we've noticed that he's got spots developing on his left hind toes. These sores are now weeping so they are leaving little sanguinous paw prints all over the house.
I have never felt so helpless as I'm feeling dealing with this. I've had cats all my life. Some that had horrible problems but were able to help them have a good quality life. I feel so bad for the little big man. Such a love......right now we've not been able to even pet him as he itches so bad. He's got fur that's as soft as butter. I just want him to get better and have and will do anything it takes. Thanks again sugarcatmom. I'll start looking for a holistic vet....

[sugarcatmom]

Originally Posted by Kodster

Should all my cats go off dry? Is that what you're saying?

Yup, that would be best. It shouldn't be a problem if your cats are already accustomed to some wet food (there are cats that don't recognized canned as food, so that can be a bit of a challenge). Still, if you need some tips for transitioning, this link has some good ones: http://www.catinfo.org/#Transitionin...o_Canned_Food_

Originally Posted by Kodster

I know they carry EVO as that's what he was on when he came to us from California.

They should be able to order it for you if they don't have any in stock. If not, there is a store locator here.

Originally Posted by Kodster

With 3 other cats being all stages of life I'm not sure raw is something we could do right now....

I understand, and making your own raw isn't something to dive into without a bit of research first (unlike dogs, cats have very specific nutritional requirements that make it too risky to be cavalier about). I would just like to point out that the whole concept of "life stages" feeding is something perpetrated by the pet food companies and does not exist in nature. For cats "in the wild" it's all about calorie consumption (younger cats requiring more). There is no such thing as a mouse specifically for kittens, or a bird "for adult cats aged 1-8", or a lizard designed to meet the needs of "seniors". Pure marketing propaganda.

Originally Posted by Kodster

We have to take him to the vet tomorrow. His "hot spot" has gotten huge and we've noticed that he's got spots developing on his left hind toes. These sores are now weeping so they are leaving little sanguinous paw prints all over the house.

Aww, poor guy. There is something you might want to consider supplementing his diet with that can help balance his immune system. Transfer Factor is derived from colostrum and can be useful in suppressing an over-active immune response to ordinary things. It certainly won't hurt, except that it can be rather expensive. Here's some more info: http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/tf/s/pets.htm

One other thing to consider, if you haven't already, is stopping all further vaccinations. Over-vaccinating has been implicated in many allergy responses in both cats and dogs. http://www.blakkatz.com/vaccination.html

[Kodster]

Originally Posted by sugarcatmom

Yup, that would be best. It shouldn't be a problem if your cats are already accustomed to some wet food (there are cats that don't recognized canned as food, so that can be a bit of a challenge). Still, if you need some tips for transitioning, this link has some good ones: http://www.catinfo.org/#Transitionin...o_Canned_Food_

Everyone in this house has eaten wet food and actually prefer it to dry. Although we have some nibblers. We are going to talk to the store manager today and if they don't stock it have it ordered...

Originally Posted by sugarcatmom

I understand, and making your own raw isn't something to dive into without a bit of research first (unlike dogs, cats have very specific nutritional requirements that make it too risky to be cavalier about). I would just like to point out that the whole concept of "life stages" feeding is something perpetrated by the pet food companies and does not exist in nature. For cats "in the wild" it's all about calorie consumption (younger cats requiring more). There is no such thing as a mouse specifically for kittens, or a bird "for adult cats aged 1-8", or a lizard designed to meet the needs of "seniors". Pure marketing propaganda.

I just don't know if I'm ready to take on the raw diet at this time. With Kody having so many issues and my stress level is off the charts. Think we'll start with the EVO 95%.

Originally Posted by sugarcatmom

Aww, poor guy. There is something you might want to consider supplementing his diet with that can help balance his immune system. Transfer Factor is derived from colostrum and can be useful in suppressing an over-active immune response to ordinary things. It certainly won't hurt, except that it can be rather expensive. Here's some more info: http://www.shirleys-wellness-cafe.com/tf/s/pets.htm

I've looked at the links. Very interesting and something I'm totally open to. At this point we're willing to try anything and cost.....LOL....we've spent so much money on this boy trying to figure out what's going on with him and we've just been spinning our wheels....now in a VERY BIG DITCH and still spinning.

Originally Posted by sugarcatmom

One other thing to consider, if you haven't already, is stopping all further vaccinations. Over-vaccinating has been implicated in many allergy responses in both cats and dogs. http://www.blakkatz.com/vaccination.html

I do not vaccinate after 1rst kitten shots. I get a lot of flack about this but I've lost 3 cats days after vaccinations to very strange illnessess. They are indoor only cats.
I can't even begin to tell you how I wish I'd found this site 1 1/2 years ago. This has really taken its toll on us, Kody included. There aren't enough words in the dictionary to say thank you for your time, input etc.
We are taking him in today hopefully for his last depo medrol injection. He's just having a horrible time, and until we can get this diet thing under control he'll need to have some relief. I feel more confident than I have felt since he was diagnosed over a year ago. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Will let you know how the food transition goes and his health. You are a godsend.......

[Love4himies]

My daughter's cat has ECG (rodent ulcer) on her lip so I was doing some reading a while back on it. I remember reading that air fresheners, cleaners and such can also be a possible allergen causing it, not sure if the testing you had done covered these chemicals.

[sugarcatmom]

Originally Posted by Kodster

Everyone in this house has eaten wet food and actually prefer it to dry. Although we have some nibblers. We are going to talk to the store manager today and if they don't stock it have it ordered...

Awesome! You can leave some canned out for nibbling if you want. That's what I (and many others I know) do. It doesn't spoil nearly as fast as you'd think, but if you're concerned or the weather is really hot, you can also freeze some canned in an ice-cube tray and plop a couple cubes down in your cat's dishes to slowly thaw. That way they'll have fresher stuff to nibble if you're going to be away for the day.

Hopefully if the store orders the Evo for you, you can try a few different flavours. The novel proteins are a good place to start. Stay away from the Evo Cat & Kitten one (it's not one of the 95% meat varieties) because it has way too many ingredients and is also extremely high in phosphorus - which may not be a big deal for young kitties, but if you have an elderly one in your bunch it can be hard on the kidneys.

Originally Posted by Kodster

I just don't know if I'm ready to take on the raw diet at this time. With Kody having so many issues and my stress level is off the charts. Think we'll start with the EVO 95%.

That's totally fine and the Evo is a great place to start. It's heads and tails above anything put out by the big pet food companies.

Originally Posted by Kodster

At this point we're willing to try anything and cost.....LOL....we've spent so much money on this boy trying to figure out what's going on with him and we've just been spinning our wheels....now in a VERY BIG DITCH and still spinning.

I also know what it's like to spend a boat-load of money on a pet's health condition without resolving the issue. I hope you can get to the bottom of it soon.

Something you might want to have on hand to deal with possible infection in the hot spots is colloidal silver (I like the Sovereign brand). You can make a compress with several drops in a small amount of water (boiled and cooled, or else distilled if you have any on hand). If Kody inadvertantly ingests some, that's okay too.

Aloe vera gel (Lily of the Valley brand - it has no sodium benzoate which is harmful to cats) can also be soothing and help with healing. Some ingestion won't be a big deal, but too much might result in loose stools.

Originally Posted by Kodster

I do not vaccinate after 1rst kitten shots.

Yay! Glad to hear it, and you won't get any flack from me on that one.

All the best to you, and I look forward to hearing some updates.

[krdahmer]

I have to ask you as I am very curious, how did you get such a detailed allergy list? When we had the skin biopsy done on Fagan all they could tell us was that is was indeed an allergy and the most likely culprit was a flea bite, then we had to start eliminating food items one by one. Fish and chicken have been at the top of most allergy lists I've seen online. So we went to duck.(I also don't use fabric softener on the sheets, clean with vinegar and water, etc etc.) This is the most recent bout we've had where Fagan needed 2 shots before he improved. Clearly all the holistic remedies we tried have not been working. Since then I have been giving all of them Virgin Coconut Oil, about 1/4 tsp everyday and so far Fagan has showed real improvement and not even a hint of red at his regular spots. I know that I was at a point where I would try anything, as you sound to be too, so maybe give the coconut oil a shot too.

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread....ighlight=fagan

Oh and what a beautiful kitty!

[Kodster]

Originally Posted by krdahmer

I have to ask you as I am very curious, how did you get such a detailed allergy list? When we had the skin biopsy done on Fagan all they could tell us was that is was indeed an allergy and the most likely culprit was a flea bite, then we had to start eliminating food items one by one. Fish and chicken have been at the top of most allergy lists I've seen online. So we went to duck.

We had allergy testing done. We did the RAST test which they take blood for. There is also an Intradermal skin test that is done but we didn't have anyone close that had the equipment to do that. The vet sends it off and in a week or so you get a report. We then ordered allergy shots. We are trying to desensitize him and are into the second bottle. This is an expensive way to go but having to give him depo injections every 3 months is not the way I want to handle this. So, they gave us a list of environmental allergies (he's allergic to just about everything) and food allergies.

Originally Posted by krdahmer

(I also don't use fabric softener on the sheets, clean with vinegar and water, etc etc.) This is the most recent bout we've had where Fagan needed 2 shots before he improved. Clearly all the holistic remedies we tried have not been working. Since then I have been giving all of them Virgin Coconut Oil, about 1/4 tsp everyday and so far Fagan has showed real improvement and not even a hint of red at his regular spots. I know that I was at a point where I would try anything, as you sound to be too, so maybe give the coconut oil a shot too.

That may be an option. We're up for anything at this point.....

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread....ighlight=fagan

Originally Posted by krdahmer

Oh and what a beautiful kitty!

Thank you for your kind words and all the support you guys are giving me. I'm just in awe of the time you've taken to respond to me. If there is anything at all I can help you guys with just let me know.

[Kodster]

Originally Posted by sugarcatmom

Awesome! You can leave some canned out for nibbling if you want. That's what I (and many others I know) do. It doesn't spoil nearly as fast as you'd think, but if you're concerned or the weather is really hot, you can also freeze some canned in an ice-cube tray and plop a couple cubes down in your cat's dishes to slowly thaw. That way they'll have fresher stuff to nibble if you're going to be away for the day.
Hopefully if the store orders the Evo for you, you can try a few different flavours. The novel proteins are a good place to start. Stay away from the Evo Cat & Kitten one (it's not one of the 95% meat varieties) because it has way too many ingredients and is also extremely high in phosphorus - which may not be a big deal for young kitties, but if you have an elderly one in your bunch it can be hard on the kidneys.

Boy, am I glad you said that. The store I went to did have the Evo cat and kitten one and I got 3 of those. Won't be doing that again. Also, they didn't carry the EVO 95% so I ordered it online. It's kinda of expensive but hey, that's just not a problem...not that money is growing on trees around here either LOL just in comparison to what I've been doing, well, I think you know.

Originally Posted by sugarcatmom

Something you might want to have on hand to deal with possible infection in the hot spots is colloidal silver (I like the Sovereign brand). You can make a compress with several drops in a small amount of water (boiled and cooled, or else distilled if you have any on hand). If Kody inadvertantly ingests some, that's okay too.
Aloe vera gel (Lily of the Valley brand - it has no sodium benzoate which is harmful to cats) can also be soothing and help with healing. Some ingestion won't be a big deal, but too much might result in loose stools.

LOOSE STOOLS is something we want to avoid here. He's had his share of the loose pooh.....will check out the colloidal silver....

Originally Posted by sugarcatmom

All the best to you, and I look forward to hearing some updates.

Thanks so much for your time SCM. I can't even begin to tell you what a relief it is to find somewhere that I can get some advice about this. I do belong to and am a moderator on a Bengal forum but it seemed no one had any experience with this problem. Will keep you up-to-date on their progress....again, thank you, thank you, thank you....
Susan

[Kodster]

Hi it's been awhile since we were here but I wanted to share with all of you with kitty's with skin allergies that there is a company that has helped Kody immensely. It's basically designed for whatever your pet needs are. Kody has eosinophilic plaque on his elbow. We had all but given up on ever being able to help him. We had him in an inner tube around his neck for months, steroids, antihistamines, went the round of allergy shots with no results. I just couldn't see Kody living the rest of his life with big blue inner tube around his neck and constantly having raw lesions which just bred infection. It was one thing after the other......since we found a company that is called
dogleggs we had all but given up. These people are amazing and will specifically design a product that will fit the need of the cat, dog, ferret, horses, recently moose......the customer service is awesome and the company was originated because they had a similar problem with their dog...
http://dogleggs.com/files/surgisox/leggings.cfm

Kody's picture is 3rd down but we've modified that particular sox he's wearing. Kody still has problems, he's still itchy some days but he can't lick his spot and make it raw anymore......
This has changed our lives. No more raw itchy spots and he can be like a cat should be when they're 3. Happy go lucky, full of energy and being a cat.....
We've also switched to raw food which I think has helped decrease his itchy days.
Just wanted to spread the word about this company.........

[Love4himies]

Thanks for the update. Were you able to find out anything more on what was causing his allergies?

[Kodster]

Hi
We are 99% sure it's food allergy. He's on raw food now and his stools are so normal. They've been that way since we started the raw. We are now on a special recipe a Bengal breeder gave us and so far all three of my Bengals are doing great......They say it takes awhile for the symptoms to go away completely but we're no longer seeing any pink where his lesion was. Even when he was on depo, pred, etc we could always see the pinkness. When we took his soxs off yesterday we couldn't even tell where the lesion was. So I think we're making tremendous progress. These doglegg people have saved Kodsters life. Not in the sense we would've put him down, but his quality of life sure wasn't the best.....We had an AC talk with him, 3rd or 4th time. She says she sits by a tree and waits for the cat to come to her. Kody came running out to greet her with his soxs on. He'd not done that with his tube. He asked if he could climb the tree and talk and she said yes and up he went and talked with her on a branch above her. She said he was happy to be a cat again. Those weren't his exact words but all in all that's what it meant. We are so relieved that we've been able to help our Kodster. He's such a sweet, sweet soul and now he's not on any meds at all.....what a relief for us all.........
Thanks for listening
Susan and Kody

[sugarcatmom]

Originally Posted by Kodster

He's such a sweet, sweet soul and now he's not on any meds at all.....what a relief for us all.........

What a relief indeed! I'm so glad you've found a system that works and that Kody is back to being a happy kitty. What a great momma you are.

[chico2]

Some good newsthat's wonderful
Yes,you are a wonderful kitty-mom,no doubt about it

[pbpatti]

Wow, I just finished reading your thread and what your poor kitty has gone through. I am so happy for you and him that he appears to be on the road to recovery. Have a happy life Kody.

[Love4himies]

Awwww, I am so happy to hear Kodster is doing so much better.

[lorneparker]

My one year old Bengal cat had terrible lick wounds on the back of both legs, diagnosed as feline granuloma and we tried everything the vet suggested (steroids, ointments, blood tests, special foods, etc.) plus things recommended online such as a raw diet and herbal treatments. Nothing seemed to help, however. After months of worsening symptoms, we wondered if we could continue putting him through the terrible discomfort he was in---obviously itchy but prevented from licking and scratching because of the e-collar, he became so different, no longer playful or happy. He wore the horrible stiff plastic e-collar (we tried baby jumpers, socks and inner tubes but he managed to get around them all!) for over 4 months before we finally got in to see a veterinary dermatologist. He didn't know what would work for certain but one thing he sent us home with was the Hill's Z/D canned food (which others on this forum have dismissed). We started him on the new food with no great hopes. Within 2 days, however, we noticed he didn't seem as itchy and was suddenly full of energy and playfulness. We couldn't believe the change within a week and when we started to allow him some supervised time without the e-collar, he just licked normally. Now, after a month on the Z/D food, he is fully back to normal----such a relief after going through so much!! I only wish we tried this food sooner---I am not in any way promoting this food as an answer to all cat granulomas but it has been like a miracle for us---it was clearly a food allergy and perhaps we will try other food down the road but we will certainly stay on it for now and recommend that others try this food along with other suggestions. Good luck to all with this very frustrating problem.

[Love4himies]

lorneparker, I am so glad you have found something that is helping your cat. My daughter's cat is also on that food for EGC and is the only food that relieves Ginger from the sores that form on her lips. Her cats get a mixture of kibble and canned versions. I would prefer canned only, but she can't afford it.

Our of curiosity, what cat food did you feed your cat before the sores appeared on his legs?

BTW, beautiful boy you have.