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Old August 15th, 2009, 04:22 PM
Rick C Rick C is offline
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An emerging new species . . . . the Coywolf

A Toronto Star article on the emerging Coywolf . . . . a result of human impact on the planet . . .

The larger, highly adaptable animals "have the wolf characteristics of pack hunting and aggression and the coyote characteristics of lack of fear of human-developed areas," says Trent University geneticist Bradley White, who's been studying the hybrids for 12 years.

We're seeing "evolution in action," he says.

But that combination of genetic material from both species has spelled trouble for farmers, who are losing a growing number of livestock to predators.

They report attacks by animals that are bigger, bolder and smarter than regular coyotes. They say hunting in packs to prey on sheep and cattle in broad daylight is becoming a common behaviour.

Durham Region farmers have suffered the most damage to livestock in the province. Last year the food and agriculture ministry paid out a total compensation of $168,000 in the region for 545 dead or injured animals.

Commonly called eastern coyotes, the creatures are actually a mixture of western coyote and eastern wolf that comes from a constantly evolving gene pool, says White, chair and professor of biology in Peterborough.

Going back 100 years, deforestation, wolf control programs and changing habitat, ecosystems and prey conspired to drive down the wolf population. Meanwhile, the number of coyotes – whose original range was in western North America – grew, thanks to their ability to adapt and reproduce with ease. The two species started to interbreed, White explains.

"In many ways, this animal is a creation of human impact on the planet," says White.


http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/681632

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Old August 15th, 2009, 04:30 PM
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I read that this morning and although I am against killing any animal,I feel for the farmers finding their animals killed in the most horrible way.
I hope they'll find a solution
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Old August 15th, 2009, 05:58 PM
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erykah1310 erykah1310 is offline
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Farmers know of one solution... its sad but they are protecting their livelihood.

These are prolly the odd coyote ish creatures we had here a few weeks ago, I couldn't believe how "ballsy" they were just walking around the yard

Not fond of the over abundance of wildlife around the new house, but with some settling in I'm sure we'll get used to it.
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Old August 15th, 2009, 08:03 PM
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My opinion may be an unpopular one. And although lOVE all animals..

I see nothing wrong with Hunting for population control. That is why I support Newfoundlands seal hunt. It is for the good of alot of things..
And Although I kinda like the little guys. I am SO glad there is a coyote hunting season here. My uncle hunts coyotes. And I support his wishes.
Now the inhumane practises I do NOT supprt. Like snaring rabbits. I call it "lazy mans hunting". Set the snare and wait for the rabbit to run in and strangle itslef.. Its just terrible. Yet nobody will boycott the thousands of people doing this but they just LOVE trying to shut down the humane practice of seal hunting.
Im sorry people, but its ILLEGAL to hunt the white coats and its ILLEGAL to hit it over the head with a club so paul mcartney can shove that argument up hisbackside. .. Wow, kinda off topic, but went into a little rant..

Id kinda like to see one of these hybrids. I bet they ae beautiful
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Old August 15th, 2009, 08:23 PM
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I hear you, humane is the key and I personally see nothing humane about trapping, I had one of my childhood dogs caught in a snare at my grandmas farm, thankfully she layer down and barked her head off until my dad found her and did not pull away from it

Thing that gets to me is people crying animal rights if a farmer shoots anything that is directly after their livestock, yet if they didn't use drastic measures such as this, many of the same people would throw a fit over prices of meat and or unavailability of it when THEY want it...
"Farmers feed cities" and sometimes prey animals do die so this can be true.
And I am sure vegans or veggietarians would love to know how many smaller animals die so that their veggies wheats and grains are not eaten as well
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Old August 15th, 2009, 08:37 PM
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erykah, have you considered getting a mule or two? They're smart, savvy, and can protect the horses or other livestock from coyotes and/or wolves and I'd venture from 'coywolves', too. Our neighbor's mules will stand still, looking vulnerable till a coyote or wolf gets too close, then come out kicking and stomping. The canids don't stick around very long once the mules get riled.
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Old August 16th, 2009, 07:18 PM
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NoahGrey NoahGrey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babymomma View Post
My opinion may be an unpopular one. And although lOVE all animals..

I see nothing wrong with Hunting for population control. That is why I support Newfoundlands seal hunt. It is for the good of alot of things..
And Although I kinda like the little guys. I am SO glad there is a coyote hunting season here. My uncle hunts coyotes. And I support his wishes.
Now the inhumane practises I do NOT supprt. Like snaring rabbits. I call it "lazy mans hunting". Set the snare and wait for the rabbit to run in and strangle itslef.. Its just terrible. Yet nobody will boycott the thousands of people doing this but they just LOVE trying to shut down the humane practice of seal hunting.
Im sorry people, but its ILLEGAL to hunt the white coats and its ILLEGAL to hit it over the head with a club so paul mcartney can shove that argument up hisbackside. .. Wow, kinda off topic, but went into a little rant..

Id kinda like to see one of these hybrids. I bet they ae beautiful
Hunting for popuation control is a joke. it's called the ecosystem. Everything balances itself out. Also, you support the Seal hunt, then even though you say that you don't like inhumane acts...but you support the seal hunt? Contridciting youself there.

By supporting the hunt, for whatever reason, supporting the hunt in general, is supporting the clubbing.

And because it is not illegal that makes it ok to be beaten over the head.

ACO22
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Old August 17th, 2009, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACO22 View Post
Hunting for popuation control is a joke. it's called the ecosystem. Everything balances itself out.
ACO22
Are you kidding? Not after we mess up the ecosystem it doesn't. It can no longer function in the same way.

As for how bold coyotes are becoming, I was having problems with them last fall myself. We have no garbage or dead stock to attract them, however we do have live stock. They were targeting my free-ranging chickens and becoming exceptionally bold. One morning I was working outside the chicken coop setting up a pool for the geese I had just got and the dogs were all with me. They started running and I looked around the corner of the coop to see what was going on and they were running off a coyote that had been just heading down out of the bush towards the coop. That same evening I was working bent down in my garden and heard a commotion so I stood up and looked to see what was going on and there was a coyote again, this time coming right through the horses that were at the edge of the bush and going after the chickens. I yelled at it and it just paused a moment and looked at me like "Yeah, and what are you going to do?" and went back at the chickens. I opened up the back gate and loosed the dogs on it and it took off. However in the process Flurry caught himself on some barbed wire (somersaulted over a strand) and cut himself, costing me a $200 vet bill for the stitches. The next evening again a coyote was back, this time coming down out of the bush while I was teaching a riding lesson. There was myself, my student and her mom all out in the field and it just didn't care. I'm all for live and let live but if my dh had been home at the right times I would certainly have not had a problem with him taking out this/these particular coyotes. As it was I solved the problem by keeping the chickens confined to the coop rather than allowing them to free range, thus removing the temptation of an easy meal. We still have lots of coyotes around us, I can often hear them howling and yapping at night. they keep their distance from my chickens and ducks that have again been free ranging all summer. I make sure to lock them up safe inside before dark every night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chico2
A farmer trying to protect his animals,I can understand,but killing one Coyote,is like stepping on one ant,hoping to make a difference in the ant-population.
In response to the coyote problem in our area last year there was an information clinic held for the farmers and other interested parties where they had a guest speaker from the MNR and others, and it was suggested that if you have a family of coyotes living on/near your property that are not targeting your livestock that you leave them alone as if you kill off that family another will only move in and it may be a worse bunch than you've already got. Conversely, if you have a nasty lot and you take them out the next bunch may be easier to get along with.
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Last edited by Gail P; August 17th, 2009 at 06:17 PM.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 06:06 PM
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NoahGrey NoahGrey is offline
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Also, Coyotes do not go after people..Wolfs and coyotes are shy animals and stay away from humans when they can. If a wolf or a coyote attack humans, odds are it is sick or injured.

ACO22
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Old August 17th, 2009, 07:35 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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The slaughtering of the seals is about vanity. That is the main reason why it is done. They can say that the rest of the carcass is used for something (probably another chinese remedy for a larger shlong or something ridiculous like that) but this is to appease those or clear any wrong doing. If there were no money to be made, then this would not be an issue on how it is done. They infact use the picks to not ruin the main body of the pelt.

I say the only way to humanly secure the flock and maintain the coyotes is using dogs that are bred to protect the flock. Why not? To me, I think that this not only preserves the breeds but the flock is safe, and the coyotes get to live in a land that we have removed from them as a safe haven. That's my
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Old August 17th, 2009, 07:55 PM
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I agree totally Benmax, we as humans have created this situation by taking over the poor animals habitats and killing off their food supply. Then when they have the nerve to try and survive(sarcasm), we get all mad and kill them. We slaughter animals for coats, not out of neccessity, but looks. Elephants for the tusks, gorilla's so some idiot can have a gorilla hand ashtray, etc, etc. Mother nature is just doing what was inevitable creating the Coywolf.

As for hunting season, i still wouldn't like it but atleast if it was a little more sportsman like and went back to using arrows, not high powered rifles it would be a little more digestable. Seriously when was the last time you saw a deer wearing a bullet proof vest.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 08:01 PM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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Absolutely Aslan. And not only that, it's so darn easy to pull out a gun and kill them without looking into a new resolution to this ever increasing problem. And we are the superior beings....I sometimes really wonder about that.

They are entitled to try and survive. I am certain that they do not mass kill either which just proves that they take only what they need. We just take it all.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 08:04 PM
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we were watching a show the other day on the mass slaughter of animals to the point of extinction. Can't remember what the one animal was at the moment but it went from being in most of Africa in the numbers of the millions and is now down to are you ready for it. 2,500. Just boggles my mind how man can think that this is ok, and that we have the right to just take and take and take.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 08:19 PM
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I find it said that we have become a society that turns our back on other species. We are suppose to be the most compassionate, but are the least...all due to greed, power and superior.

I also find it sad that we as a society protest and rise in anger in alterring a wild specie, when we do it everyday to your domestic animals, for our own self needs.

Remember, society domesicated the dog.

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Old August 18th, 2009, 08:08 AM
bluestar bluestar is offline
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I generally stay out of these kind of discussions and seriously doubt I will sway anyone's opinion here, but I will lend some support to BM although I would suggest to her that if you do decide to debate anything on a public forum to try to keep things as emotionless as possible and not to take anything said against you to heart as people will always react irrationally on public forums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chico2 View Post
Why do you think the whole world are in uproar,every Seal-"hunting"season?
The world is in an uproar every hunting season because some celebrities decided to use their fame to sway public opinion because they take issue with an industry that hunts an animal that is cute and cuddly in their eyes. These same people are not as adamant about other forms of life that are cruelly slaughtered like a chicken or cow. There are things that are far worse in this world that these people could focus their attention on, but nothing creates a more poignant image than a pair of large baby seal eyes. They may say they are against all forms of animal cruelty, but they do not actively and publically berate those industries because the images do not have as great an impact on the public.

The only good that has come from their involvement is at least it has created enough outcry to change the hunting practices in the industry and to force the government to regulate the industry and focus on ensuring that the seal population is not threatened which is the most important factor in any industry that uses natural resources, be it fishing, hunting or logging.

There will always be fools in any industry that do things that are not legal nor morally right (generally when a camera is placed in their face and cash handed over), but it is up to the government to monitor the industry and enforce the laws so that these things do not happen. But painting every person involved in the industry with the same brush makes no sense. Just because you see one person doing something illegal does not mean everyone involved in the industry does. Any fool that is out there risking their life to look good for the camera deserves anything that happens to them while on the ice. Clambering over the ice and taking their life into their hands to club a seal is the most idiotic thing a person can do.

The seal fishery is a minute industry that really impacts a small minority of people. It is only used as supplement for most people during the offseason. Yet people treat it as if it were a multi-billion dollar industry that is destroying people's lives and the planet. This is hardly big tobacco or oil, yet has more public outcry. As long as it is done with a focus on conservation and a market exists, I personally believe there is nothing wrong with allowing it to continue. Were that market to disappear, then there is nothing wrong with closing it down, or keeping a smaller food fishery open, but the industry itself is not an issue as long as it is done properly. A few images of a few people behaving improperly certainly does not mean everyone is.
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