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Old February 23rd, 2005, 02:26 PM
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Drowning kittens ( disturbing)

This has been bothering me greatly since the weekend.. when our out of town guests were here (overbearing know-it-all couple)

They KNOW I am a pet-lover - which they are not. Sometimes I wonder if they are just deliberately trying to "get" to me.

While we talking about cats (mine).. the woman told me that a youngish kitten was dropped off right in front of their house- saw the person leave quickly after dumping it.
It was very cute lilttle thing, she didnt want it...but decided she'd take it out to her daughters house, where the grandkids would love it. Great ending, I thought!
Not really.
The kitten had kittens after a short time. She got her neigbour to come over and drown them! omg.. And then... "the next thing you know".. it happened again. Go figure. Took the same method of solving the problem.

Isnt this inhumane and/or illegal?
I was horrified, sickened.
I asked her if her daughter had ever heard of spay/neuter clinics? She skirted the question. I asked her again.. She said there were no" low-cost" ones around where they live. Well, then she cant afford the cat can she? I told her this was cruelty, and she denied it emphatically. She defended it as the same thing as taking them to the humane society to have them disposed of.(they were not new-born at this point, I gather) and thereby not adding more unwanted kittens to their overflowing numbers

My blood pressure was rising fast, I decided to drop the issue before a quarrel broke out. I just said I believed this was barbaric. and unnecessary. Once was bad enough - but to let it happen again? Didnt even get into the health issues for the poor thing.
WHY would someone 'rescue" a female kitten, not get it spayed, and then - use this hideous method of birth control?
It seems like something from another era to me, that people used to do "back on the farm" when there were simply no other alternatives available.
These people live in a good sized town - there is no excuse for this, imo.

Its been on my mind -I'm tempted to email them a followup question on what if anything her daughter has done about taking responsibililty for the health of this cat that she "saved".
Maybe she doent even have it anymore. Darn thing kept having kittens. .
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 02:48 PM
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That is horrible.
Do you know this person's address? It may be illegal, too - I'm not sure.
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 02:53 PM
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I would contact animal control and tell them the story and have them check her out they sound like real nice people for a$$holes. And if it was something just to get to you then I would tell them not to bother coming over because you don't have time for bottom feeders and hang up
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 02:53 PM
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Im sure it is illegal. This is how we got are first dog pepper. She was a beautiful Scottish Terrier. I was only alive for the last 3 years of her life but remember her well. One day a guy showed up at my parents house and told my dad (big dog lover) that he was going to drown these dogs at the end of the day if he didn't find any owners. Needless to say my dad told the guy off but not before taking one as he said he wouldn't be able to live knowing that he didn't atleast save one. Its a practice that has obviously gone on for some time. This was about 30 years ago and more.
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 02:55 PM
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Shamrock, your a better person than I am, I think I would have lost it on these people. How can anyone justify drowning these poor innocent animals not once but twice?! Friends or not I would take some action some how and have this stupid, irresponsible bit@# reported to someone and have the mother cat taken away asap! People make me sick!
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 03:10 PM
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drowning kittens

You could report them anonymously to the SPCA/HS in their town and an investigation would take place. If they told you, odds are they opened their big mouths to others, too, so anyone with a conscience could have/should have reported it. Seems to me like your "guests" are not any sort of friends to you, so no great loss to you there.

It is eating away at you because you want to do the humane and caring thing and cannot rest knowing these hillbillies are repeatedly killing kittens. I know I would be on the phone immediately and would not eat or sleep until this was looked into. Perhaps a little trip to court and a hefty fine, (the neighbour too!! a**hole!), would teach them shame and respect for innocent animals! I personally would have tossed them, then and there, and their luggage out of my house, preferrably from an upper story!

Their actions are both inhumane and illegal. Period. The mother cat should be removed from this household and a ban on pet ownership should be enacted on both this vile couple of nimrods and the idiot neighbour. Perhaps it is now too late for this poor mother cat and they "disposed" of her in this same barbaric fashion because they are too stupid to have her spayed.

Don't try to figure out why idiots do what idiots do.....it is up to those of us with feelings and sense to intervene and prevent such tragedies and educate the bad owners. I think that your intervention is essential here and now, so this type of garbage does not happen again. Then you will feel somewhat better about this awful experience, knowing that you have possibly saved at least one, (and likely more) helpless animals' life. Follow your heart :love:
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 03:26 PM
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Unfortunately, I don't think it is illegal, as disgusting as it is. If they were doing that to get to you, I don't think it's friends like that that you need. Unless you take them camping, put some rocks in thier sleeping bags and...well, turn about is fair play and all.
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 03:41 PM
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Drowning kittens

How can drowning defenseless animals NOT be illegal? I did a quickie web search and found this, and it sounds like a lawbreaker to me, but perhaps the penalty is so menial that it is has no effect whatsoever:

"The Ontario County case of four men accused of torturing a cat, tying it to a cement block and drowning it in Honeoye Lake will go before a grand jury on Tuesday"

and this blurb....

Nov. 18, 02:00 EDT
Get tough on animal cruelty
Re Man admits beating dog, Nov. 9.

Animal cruelty cases like the beating and drowning a German
shepherd dog in Brockville have not gone unnoticed in Ottawa.

In March, Justice Minister Anne McLellan tabled legislation to
update the Criminal Code and make the penalties for cruelty to
animals much tougher. Under Bill C-15B, persons convicted of
cruelty to animals will
face up to five years in jail and a lifetime ban on owning
animals.

These changes couldn't come at a better time. The current laws,
written in 1892, are so ineffective that police officers in
Toronto charged a young man with "mischief" for torturing and
skinning a cat on videotape because it carried a stiffer penalty
than animal cruelty.

Our collective indignation at these violent acts has been heard.
Tougher legislation will act as a strong deterrent to those who
would wilfully, through action or neglect, harm an animal.

Dave Loan
International Fund
for Animal Welfare
Ottawa

I know that there are many that are lobbying for much stiffer penalties, as there should be, and I assumed that it is against the law to drown an animal. If it is not a law, it sounds like it will be in time! Something has to be done to deter people from doing such awful acts. I'm really pi**ed!
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 03:43 PM
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Schwinn, you read my mind, but I was thinking of asking the mother if she thought of drowning the daughter rather than change diapers Yes, I am getting cranky today. Obviously 'mom" did not do well with the "birds and bees" talk, if the daughter has not figured out where the kittens come from.

I noticed that the daughter did not have the "guts" to drown the kittens herself, got someone else to do her dirty work. Dispicable and cowardly, a lovely combination.

They were out of town guests, but I would still notify the SPCA/Humain society in their city. Too bad you can't get your hands on the poor little mum-kitten.
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 03:43 PM
Trinitie Trinitie is offline
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From the SPCA of BC:

"Under the current criminal code of Canada, the maximum penalties for someone who is found guilty of cruelty to animals are:

6 months in jail;
$2000 fine;
maximum 2 year prohibition from owning an animal

Currently, less than 1/3 of 1% of all animal abuse complaints lead to criminal charges. Of those charges laid, only about 45% result in successful convictions. Frequently a successful conviction means a fine of $400 or simply being placed on probation."

It just sickens me to no end. We should see how well they can breathe under water.
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 03:44 PM
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I love your sense of humour Schwinn
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 03:50 PM
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Carina Carina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinitie
It just sickens me to no end. We should see how well they can breathe under water.
No kidding!

Here's another (possibly unpopular) way to look at this. In the long run, being drowned is probably less cruel than allowing these kittens:

*Being given away to whomever, then allowed to wander outside and get pregnant multiple times, or impregnate doG-knows how many other cats.
*Being dumped at the pound, spending several miserable and confusing weeks in a cage, then being killed.
*Being dumped and left to fend for themselves, becoming feral, living fairly short, difficult lives, and probably having a bunch MORE unwanted kittens before dying of something.

I am NOT saying the kittens should be drowned! Just to be clear. I think the stupid humans and their neighbors should be drowned is all.
Just tossing out another perspective.
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 03:59 PM
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It is difficult when you have"friends"who do not think of animals like we do,we have a couple too.
It's an Italian family and once they were talking about lamb at the dinner table,how her father used to hog-tie the lamb and force-feed it until he was fat enough for slaughter,crying his little heart out.
Needless to say,none of my dinner stayed down....to some people animals are animals and do not deserve compassion and love.
In the case of the kittens,since there is nothing you can do...I do not think that kind of cruelty deserves you as a friend,I would definetly keep my distance,or there would be some serious arguments.
I wish someone would steal the little cat and give her a home where people care.
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 04:31 PM
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You are SO right!

This has been weighing heavy on my mind, with a sickening feeling.
HOW could they all be so cold-hearted - so "blind"?

I let them off too easy.. I shouldnt have! I could kick myself.. :sad:
This couple is actually my husbands brother, and his partner of the last eight or so years.
I find him barely tolerable, and her downright insufferable, but in the interest of family relations try to keep things cordial. We rarely see them, the last time was three years ago. But this - this just crosses the line.

They are still travelling, wont be back to their home until this weekend.
Before I really "lost it" with them - I asked them to just drop the topic,, said that as a petlover I found this highly disturbing. They just shrugged...and complied. They acted like it was "me" who had the problem..making a "fuss' over this issue.

But.. now I dont know about this poor mom-cat. What is her status?

I dont even know the daughter's name.. or where she lives.
What I CAN do though:
As they seem to feel that its a legal, practical and "no-cost" solution:
I will confirm that this is illegal in B.C. (wasnt sure of this.. thanks for that!)

I'll get their email and then they will receive their first-ever message from me..
I'll tell her she should advise her daughter she is breaking the law. (along with the neandethral neigbour)- and that in spite of their claims, it IS cruelty to animals - morally ethically AND legally. That MOST people in this century find this an abonimation. If this is continuing, someone WILL report her - and hopefully soon.
I think the reality of possible prosecution may be a wake-up call.

They may say its none of my business. but by telling me .. they MADE it my business.

And - As these people are quite well-fixed ( better than us) I will find out how much exactly to spay in their city. I will tell them I will personally send the money to their daughter if she hasnt disposed of the cat in the same heartless uncaring fashion as she did the offspring.

I have some days to put together all I want to say... and I want to say a lot


I must learn to follow the sentiments of my own signature - family or not!
Besides.. not MY family..
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 04:39 PM
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Shamrock,you are doing the right thing,for your own piece of mind and any kittens in the future.
I've had instances where I've just had to intervene,because something has been tearing away at me.Animal-cruelty has to be stopped,whether it's done by a neighbor,friend or stranger,we have to help the animals,they cannot help themselves :sad:
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 04:43 PM
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OMG - I can't believe that is still done! Many moons ago, when my husband was a young lad, his dad was coming home from work (they lived in a small town) and noticed a guy at a lake or stream (can't remember) doing something strange. He got out of his car to check it out and discovered the guy was drowning puppies. He punched the guy out (if you knew my FIL, you'd be surprised he would ever punch anyone) and managed to save two of the puppies. He brought them home and he and my DH and MIL nursed the little guys until they were strong, happy puppies. They kept one (Taffy) and gave the other to a neighbour (Sooty). Taffy and Sooty were friends and played together a lot. They were a Border Collie and Shepard mix. Fabulous, very clever dogs. My DH and FIL just adored Taffy and both get misty eyed when talking about him. My FIL still has a picture of Taffy on his coffee table. They had many dogs and cats and loved them all -- but Taffy was the ultra-special one.

I'm just sickened that people still do this. I'm so upset - I just don't know what to say.
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 05:03 PM
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Sunnys mom, I remember this practice too, it was quite common (probably still is in some areas) in the UK. At least with sheepdogs. Working dogs are never spayed or neutered, and I remember coming across one of our neighbors in Scotland, drowing a newborn litter. He was crying, I remember that....I really don't think there were alternatives then. (This was over 30 years ago in very rural Scotland.)

But there is NO excuse today! It is disgusting.

Shamrock you go for it. I am sorry you have such ignorant inlaws.
I'm curious about the legaility too.
I'll pitch in for spaying mama cat even.
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 05:51 PM
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Cruelty to animals is illegal in most places (except Quebec) and drowning is considered cruelty, therefore illegal. If any of my friends or family did such a horrible thing, I would have no hesitation in reporting them. Someone has to speak for those who cannot defend themselves.

And yes, it certainly is still being done all over the place, although I cannot fathom a human being who could do this to defenseless babies. NO excuses not to spay a female cat, unless someone gets pleasure from killing innocent creatures.

Here is a litter I fostered who was headed for the toilet at birth, by a farmer who had drowned countless litters. Luckily, we managed to get them first. All the others who preceeded them were killed. When I think how close they came to being drowned, it makes me ill.
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 05:54 PM
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That's really horrible... especially nowadays!

If I can just recommend one thing: don't send the money to her. Send it directly to the vet, so you're sure what it will be spent on.

Lyne
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 06:35 PM
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When I was growing up, it was quite common for people to down kittens - put them all in a bag and drown them, literally! (and yep, some did not do it willingly but there simply did not know better, sighhh!) It is a most disturbing thought and an image that I find hard to get out of my mind. People thought my grandmother was a little nuts for looking after a feral colony, sigh! There was, at the time, I should point out, no SPCA, but the better alternative was to at least find a kind farmer with a barn. (certainly with feral cats this was sort of a solution). The closest vet was an hour away and no one would think of bringing cats to him to be neutered. It seems cruel in 2005 but it was the way it was, sigh Another alternative used by some was to kill kittens by placing them behind the exhaust fumes of a vheicle.

I suspect some people may still do this but if a friend or relative of mine even confided to me they had done either of these things, I would contact the SPCA or the police. You could do it anonymously.
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 07:15 PM
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OMG! look at those sweet little faces, how could anyone think of putting them in a toilet, thank goodness they were saved from this monster. I dont know how anyone could do this and look at themselves in a mirror everyday. I hope all these ppl who have been so cruel to animals will pay someday
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Old February 23rd, 2005, 08:20 PM
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I've heard of everything from drowning them, shooting them and when I was a kid we found kittens with their eyes not open in a garbage bag on garbage day. It is a cruel world out there, but will it ever end. We don't even treat people humainly so do you really expect people to always care about animals. Thats why I like this forum, for you all care about the welfare of animals and if we can get more people to have their pets fixed it might save some poor little animals life.
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Old February 24th, 2005, 08:37 AM
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drowning kittens

[QUOTE=Carina]. Working dogs are never spayed or neutered, and I remember coming across one of our neighbors in Scotland, drowing a newborn litter. He was crying, I remember that....

And why do you suppose he was crying? Because he knew what he was doing was WRONG and he had a conscience and also hated what he was doing. I'm sure this haunted him for the rest of his life, as it should have. Maybe he had no choice, back then, but in todays' society, there are so many humane and compassionate alternatives that there is just no excuse for this course of action. It is pitiful.

I am reminded of a story (equally disturbing as the initial post, so don't read if you are queasy!!), of a little toddler who watched his father drown some newborn pups, and his innocent reaction was to go into the house and take his newborn baby sibling and do the same. He drowned the little baby, because he had watched his father do this to the other "babies", much to the horror of the parents. So sad.
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Old February 24th, 2005, 10:27 AM
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We have a cat who was saved from the drink. My wife worked for a bank in Kirkland Lake, and it was the last kitten. The husband of a co-worker came in to see if anyone knew anyone who wanted a cat, if not, he was going to drown it. I was disgusted by this, and my wife was telling me it happens all the time up there, because there is no OSPCA to take care of strays. I don't agree with it, but I think the reason that this isn't seen as a crime is because it is an "alternative" to having them put down. I would think that in order to be charged with cruelty, you'd have to prove intent, and some people honestly believe it is better to drown them that let them live in possible poor conditions. I, by the way, am not one of those people.
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Old February 24th, 2005, 10:42 AM
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I am reminded of a story (equally disturbing as the initial post, so don't read if you are queasy!!), of a little toddler who watched his father drown some newborn pups, and his innocent reaction was to go into the house and take his newborn baby sibling and do the same. He drowned the little baby, because he had watched his father do this to the other "babies", much to the horror of the parents. So sad.

That is sad but you reap what you sow. I guess that was a hard lesson learned. Hope they learned one.
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Old February 24th, 2005, 11:04 AM
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Angry

Here in my Northern ON town after 3 days in the pound they drive the stray dogs to the dump, shoot them and toss them into the pit. I posted this previously and was told that it is very common practice up here. Apparently they take the cats and put them in burlap sacks with rocks and toss them into the river. I guess that shooting a cat is more difficult than a dog as they tend to be restrained less easily.

I am hoping to start a foster ring shortly, so I don't want to cause trouble here right now (as I will need to deal through town council). It is unbelievable how most of the town is unaware that this even happens! If a story like this took place in Southern ON there would be a HUGE outcry. I guess that if the municipality says it's okay the government does not give a damn.

Also, (as everyone on this board is full aware [I'm sure]), if you are in Quebec there is nothing that can be done about ANY animal cruelty, as there are NOT ANY laws regarding animal welfare.
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Old February 24th, 2005, 11:23 AM
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That is horrible. I wish you luck and after living in a small town I agree you need to go through all the right channels or they will black list you and then you will not be able to help. Good luck
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Old February 24th, 2005, 03:45 PM
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LoraxP.. that is so horrible! :sad: Its very distressing to think that this goes on. Good luck with your foster work!

And to see the angelic faces of the little babies.. as in Lucky's pics, omg. It defies comprehension how someone could do such a thing.
I called my local SPCA, who confirmed that drowning kittens anwyhere in BC does constitute cruelty to animals - a person could be prosecuted.

I dont know if they even still have this cat, but I intend to make this fact known to them. I also found three vet clinics in their area from an online search, and will advise them I would be willing to pay them directly for the spaying - as they apparently dont feel this is any kind of necessity
I dont know the daughter, the one who had the kittens executed but the couple who gave her this cat could well afford it, even if she couldnt.
They travel all over the world... (Thailand five or six times) but wont part with a few bucks on behalf of an animal, and condone this outrage as a "solution". That makes me nauseous.
Maybe being raised in rural areas where animals were not "pets", maybe living up north among the hunters, which they are (they're always blasting some poor animal)..they've developed a different mindset. They view all animals as disposable.
Or maybe a cold heart knows know boundaries.

I have a mindset too. What goes around comes around...
If they're is any justice in this world, those who callously exhibit or condone cruelty to animals will get their just desserts in some fashion.
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When you judge another, you do not define them, you define yourself - Wayne Dyer
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