Whining

[Wembly]

Hi everyone - I am new to this. I have a problem with my dog whining.......kind of hard to ignore her though and I will explain why. I have a little toy poodle - she is 15 weeks old and a really sweet natured little thing. My husband and I take her golfing with us and she is fine when she is sitting between us on the cart. The problem arises when we have to leave to either tee-off, putt or hit a fairway shot. She whines - until we go back to the cart. In one sense I suppose she thinks she wins, because we HAVE to return to the cart to drive to the next shot etc., etc. I have her enrolled in puppy training and mentioned it to the trainer. She suggested one of us spraying her with water every time we left. We did try this and she looked like a drowned rat by the third hole. It did seem to help, but didn't alleviate the whines altogether - she just whined a bit quieter ha.ha. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[badger]

That's a pretty brutal way to 'correct' a puppy barely old enough to leave its mother, isn't it? Your trainer is a putz. These early negative experiences, if repeated often enough, will have a serious impact on the kind of dog he becomes - fearful and clingy (maybe even a biter), in fact exactly the kind of dog you don't want him to be.
You need to cut him WAY more slack. In fact, I wonder if this is the right thing for you at all.

Sorry to be so frank but I find your post quite shocking.

[Lucky Rescue]

This is outrageous. Would you squirt a human baby with water because it cries?

This is a baby too, and like all babies doesn't want to be left alone.

What you are doing is very inhumane and is going to teach this poor puppy that you are not to be trusted.

[mummummum]

Hi and welcome to you all. Naturally we would love to see a picture of your little furball. It's wonderful that you have decided to include your pup on your golf trips - I'll bet she has fun driving in the cart! But I do question the ethics and training methodology of your trainer in suggesting aversion therapy right off the bat AND with a wee puppy. Positively reinforcing the behaviours you want and ignoring or gently correcting the non-dangerous behaviours you don't want should be what you are seeking in training. I would be looking at getting another trainer pronto and getting some good learning materials on raising a puppy in a positive learning environment.

[Bushfire2000]

Hi, Welcome. Jazz sounds like a sweetheart.

You have to be very careful using that kind of training. It can be very effective but, as you can tell from other posts, it's not our first choice.

If you do spray your puppy it is key that the puppy NOT connect the spray of water with you. Spraying must come as total surprise and a very little amount is needed. NEVER look at your pup as you spray and only spray while she's whining. (It kind of sounds like every time you get out of the cart you spray her, that will only result in her becoming more and more upset)
That said I'm not sure that spraying is the right response to whining. The best thing might be to just ignore it. As she becomes more confident that you are coming back it should stop. Do not give her attention until she has stopped and then give her treats and praise.

Good luck with Jazz and we'd love to see pics.

[Prin]

I'm thinking if you spray the dog as you leave, won't that teach the dog that when you leave, something bad will happen? To me that would make a dog more insecure.

[Wembly]

Wow - some very harsh responses that I didn't expect....but thank you all for your input. I did do a lot of reading first initially and some of the information I read, did say to spray with water. Some also said to make a loud noise (not the best solution on a golf course).

Jazz is a lovely sweet natured little girl and I love having her around and she is bringing lots of joy into our lives. We walk every day - and take her on a lot of outings My husband and I love golfing but feel she is just too young to be left alone while we golf, hence the reason for us taking her with us. She does seem to enjoy it, but as I say, whines when we leave her for a few minutes. We take treats with us and do give her lots of praise if she hasn't whined.

We all have to learn y'know, and sometimes we make mistakes - life is like that, so please people, don't be so judgemental.

Thanks anyway.

[Prin]

I don't think they were judging you, but the trainer who told you to hose your dog.

Maybe this is a dangerous suggestion, but what if you brought her with you for the tee off? I mean, you're not both teeing off at the same time are you? So one person could hold her while the other swings?

[mummummum]

Please don't be offended Wembly - I'm afraid we can get a little overanxious and protective about what we believe to be harmful to animals. That is not to suggest that you are deliberately mistreating your pup - it's obvious to me anyway that Jazz is a very important part of your life. I and others here have tried the spray bottle and the tin can of pennies - you aren't alone ! There are many philosophies on training and how to raise a puppy. What I hope we were trying to communicate is that your pup is at a very impressionable and vulnerable age and that a more positive learning tool will show better results and be less traumatic for you and your furbaby. Perhaps rather than trying to eradicate the whining (unwanted behaviour) you might try teaching and reinforcing a wanted behaviour - like sit/ stay or down/ stay. This will give your pup and you something to focus on while your partner is out of the cart and provide a learned behaviour that you can use in other situations where your pup becomes anxious. Raising intelligent and loving animals is a lifelong learning adventure - and just like golf, you don't always pick the right iron every time !

[Wembly]

Taking Jazz to the tee sounds oK, but not when you are teamed up with another "twosome", I don't think it would go down very well, but thanks for the suggestion. When we are going up the fairway though, or sometimes waiting on the teebox (sometimes it gets very busy) we take Jazz out of the cart and walk her - so she does get lots of exercise too and has a chance to "go potty".

She really is becoming a very important part of our lives, and as I am typing this she is playing with her toys, enjoying herself - she is a joy.

We will be going for our third "training session" today and Jazz does "sit" on command and is doing extremely well. We have been practicing all week. Tonight hopefully it will be the - sit, stay - we will learn, so that could be very helpful for when we golf on the weekend. I will certainly give that a try.

I do appreciate all of your comments.

[Wembly]

By the way - MumMumMum...............as you say "Mum" do I take it you are a Brit? Just wondering, as I am too.

[Lucky Rescue]

We can only go by what is written, and this part is what upset us:

We did try this and she looked like a drowned rat by the third hole. It did seem to help, but didn't alleviate the whines altogether - she just whined a bit quieter ha.ha.

The thought of this baby sitting there, crying for you, and being doused with water is upsetting and not funny either.

Please look around for a better trainer, not one who ever advocates any harsh methods whatsoever for little puppies. Positive/reward based training only for babies.

Trying to train a puppy while golfing is not a good idea, because you must focus your attention on her to be able to immediately reward her for good behavior.

[Wembly]

Well, we all tend to exaggerate I am sure. Having said that, she was getting quite wet but we did have a towel and we did dry her well (it was just her face that was wet)......and both of us started thinking that this wasn't such a good idea......but having spoken with a professional we did persevere and did continue to spray her - not EVERY time we left, but quite often. Sometimes my husband stayed with her while I "hit the ball".......we do care about her.

And I disagree, I think any time is a good time to train your pet...........they have to get used to your way of life and if they are introduced early enough, they do. She fits in very well and is very loving and like I have said, a very good natured sweet little thing........and we like having her with us.

I have researched a lot - and from what I read - training early is key and yes I know all the positive reinforcement etc., etc., but I have also read that you just cannot give in to their every whim because they will whine, or bark just to get their own way.

Incidentally, during our training sessions (and it is for puppy training), if any dog barks, they get sprayed with water immediately by the trainer...........and again, I have read certain training manuals that tell you to do this.

[Prin]

You don't have to pass any exams to put out a training book nor to become an animal trainer. A lot of dogs have trouble with water as it is, without it being used in such a negative context. I wouldn't do it. There are better, less invasive, less scary ways to train a dog. Your dog should respect you, not be afraid of something hosing her in the face. Your dog should stop crying because she is reassured and has no trouble being left alone, not because if she cries, she'll have a traumatizing consequence. That's the old school way of training.

To me, training on the golf course is a good idea, if that is what you're there for. If you are there to golf, like Lucky said, it would be hard to be consistent in the training because half your mind is on the course and half on the dog. Training sessions should be 100% on the dog, even if you're not looking at her. You know? How can you correct something 100% of the time if you're in the middle of your swing? You see what I mean? It's not efficient at getting the message across.

[Wembly]

Point taken - but surely, if we go often enough and she does get to realize that we will ALWAYS go back to the cart, she will feel secure and comfortable in the knowledge that we aren't going to leave her. She looks at us the whole time we are away, and when we go back, she lies down and puts her little head on my leg, and is very content. We both want her to be part of that part of our lives - because we enjoy golf, and want her to be with us. Is that so bad?

[Lucky Rescue]

I have also read that you just cannot give in to their every whim because they will whine, or bark just to get their own way.

Yes, I definitely agree with that. We cannot be slaves to our dogs. What I am disagreeing with is the method of punishment to a little puppy to attain that goal.

Here's the difference: Puppy cries. You give no attention while she is crying. You wait until the crying stops, and immediately reward her for being quiet. You gradually wait longer and longer to reward her, then eliminate the reward altogether. This way the puppy is rewarded for good behavior, trusts you, and wants to continue to please instead of being afraid of getting squirted in the face for making a wrong move.

I trained my dog to do all kinds of things, including not to bug me when I didn't want to be bugged, all without one bit of punishment of any kind. It just isn't necessary.

[mummummum]

Originally Posted by Wembly

By the way - MumMumMum...............as you say "Mum" do I take it you are a Brit? Just wondering, as I am too.

Irish actually ! My dawgies names - Bridie, Ceili and Declan - tend to give me away.

Lucky Rescue's tip about ignoring the whining and rewarding sitting quietly is exactly what I was trying to get at. You can also go at it the other way by teaching her to "Speak" (reinforcing vocalizations) so that you can teach her "Quiet". But that may be a lesson for down the road. You may wish to think about having one of you stay in or near the cart while the other is playing during your training phase until she has sitting quietly down pat so that she is getting 100% training attention.

[happycats]

You sound like someone who truly loves your dog, and want to take him everywhere with you, and I think that's great!
But like everyone said, you should try to find a new trainer,as I'm sure you don;t want a dog with "issues", as this kind of training can create all kinds of problems for you pup!

Have you tried distractions? Maybe give him a favorite toy or treat, when you leave the cart, then give him plenty of praise when he doesn't whine.