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  #31  
Old April 14th, 2011, 08:28 PM
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Good for him, Melinda. Heard of a similar case here where a breeder heard her cattle dog she'd sold was being kept caged up so she just walked in, put the price of the pup on the table and took the dog. On the other hand I lost all respect for one of our top breeders who discovered too late that she'd been conned into selling two sheltie pups to a dealer, then did nothing about it. I'd have been after his blood!
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  #32  
Old April 14th, 2011, 09:05 PM
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This thread is a very important one. I would hate to see it being muddied with stories of what ethical breeders do. It sends a strong message out about how to recognize irresponsible , unethical breeders. By turning it into a "what a good breeder does vs what a bad one does" it takes away from the thread. I can remember not so long ago one of the members posting in this thread was questioning the very breeder she got her dog from. How quickly that has been forgotten.
Can we see if we can now start practicing the friendlier, kinder Pets some folks are striving for? This would be a wonderful place to start. Thank you.
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  #33  
Old April 14th, 2011, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
This thread is a very important one. I would hate to see it being muddied with stories of what ethical breeders do. It sends a strong message out about how to recognize irresponsible , unethical breeders. By turning it into a "what a good breeder does vs what a bad one does" it takes away from the thread. I can remember not so long ago one of the members posting in this thread was questioning the very breeder she got her dog from. How quickly that has been forgotten.
Can we see if we can now start practicing the friendlier, kinder Pets some folks are striving for? This would be a wonderful place to start. Thank you.
Could you please explain what exactly was posted in this thread that made it unfriendly?
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  #34  
Old April 14th, 2011, 10:26 PM
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Could you please explain what exactly was posted in this thread that made it unfriendly?
Ummm, don't remember saying this thread was unfriendly. I just would hate to turn it that way. As such - 'nough said.
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  #35  
Old April 15th, 2011, 12:17 AM
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OK let me break this down.....

Save Shelter dog from dieing...adopt from a shelter

Stay away from money grabbing pieces of crap backyard breeders and puppy mills. YES this includes those cute little fluff balls at the pet stores. They may come disguised as ethical breeders, but they are just out for the money. You will find these lowlife breeders in the newspapers, on the Internet, Craig's list and kiigi, parking lots and flea markets.

MY Bad, my rant.
Nuff said
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  #36  
Old April 15th, 2011, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Shaykeija View Post
OK let me break this down.....

Save Shelter dog from dieing...adopt from a shelter

Stay away from money grabbing pieces of crap backyard breeders and puppy mills. YES this includes those cute little fluff balls at the pet stores. They may come disguised as ethical breeders, but they are just out for the money. You will find these lowlife breeders in the newspapers, on the Internet, Craig's list and kiigi, parking lots and flea markets.

MY Bad, my rant.
Nuff said
You are right, shay, unethical breeders are getting smarter as the public becomes more and more aware of how to select an "ethical" breeder. They don't care about their dogs/cats so they surely don't care if they are misleading the public.

Sooooo, be safe, adopt from a shelter and you won't have to worry about allowing an unethical breeder to keep on going to produce yet another litter.
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  #37  
Old April 15th, 2011, 07:57 AM
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Well said Shay and L4H. Keeping very still as everyone knows where I stand.
Yep..drove some puppymill pups last night to a safe place. Enough said.
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  #38  
Old April 15th, 2011, 08:02 AM
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Well said Shay and L4H. Keeping very still as everyone knows where I stand.
Yep..drove some puppymill pups last night to a safe place. Enough said.
You are an BenMax
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  #39  
Old April 15th, 2011, 11:02 AM
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What is being said is not as important as what you won't comment on folks, that in between the breeder and the shelter are lots and lots and lots and lots of irresponsible owners, that keep breeders in business and the shelters flat out trying to save the poor darn dogs they dispose of. Am I wrong in thinking this? Maybe Calgary has the answer, let people have more animals, that way when they have a pug but decide they'd really love a Wolfhound as well, at least they can have both without getting rid of the first one?
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  #40  
Old April 15th, 2011, 11:10 AM
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i know what you mean..we are allowed only 4 pets per household. No more than 2 dogs. so i have 4 dogs and a cat. I licenced 2 dogs in another town to cover my a$$.
If my dream were to come true, i would have a huge farm for rescue and old and small dogs could live their life out there. (big dogs and pits would be welcome too)
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  #41  
Old April 15th, 2011, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Goldfields View Post
What is being said is not as important as what you won't comment on folks, that in between the breeder and the shelter are lots and lots and lots and lots of irresponsible owners, that keep breeders in business and the shelters flat out trying to save the poor darn dogs they dispose of. Am I wrong in thinking this? Maybe Calgary has the answer, let people have more animals, that way when they have a pug but decide they'd really love a Wolfhound as well, at least they can have both without getting rid of the first one?

You are right. In between the breeder and the shelter there are lots of bad owners. But what is a byb's or miller's favourite saying? We're just fulfilling a need. If there weren't so many bad "breeders" popping out dogs of indeterminant health the pet population would not be experiencing the issue is it today. Quite often there is NO owner in between the miller/byb and the shelter. That's because there are more and more millers dumping dogs they are "finished with" unceremoniously wherever they can and, thankfully, more raids on their operation. Those dogs/cats have to go somewhere and where else but to the shelters.
This article is not an argument against ethical breeders. In fact this is an argument for them. Why can't we let it go at that?
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Last edited by 14+kitties; April 15th, 2011 at 10:51 PM. Reason: Just deleted some funny faces.
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  #42  
Old April 15th, 2011, 12:02 PM
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I am not taking the side of breeders at all, 14+, nor am I looking for an argument. It just seems logic to me that if it wasn't for all these rotten owners, there would be no puppy mills. Why would they breed if they couldn't sell them? The people who breed for showing would have their market always, because people enjoy showing and dogs for that must be registered. They aren't blameless though, they cull dogs they think are past showing or breeding, and I personally hate that. If they were made to keep them instead, that'd really slow down their breeding program. Some are in it solely for the number of Ch's they can notch up, so they breed the most, cull the most. Educating your children at school(like ours are here) to grow up knowing how to care for animals, that they have them for the animal's life etc. is a great thing, so hopefully they don't grow up like idiot parents who think dogs/cats/pets of all sorts are just a disposable commodity.
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  #43  
Old April 15th, 2011, 12:07 PM
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I think education at the schools is wonderful, twice a year my daughter has the spca come to her class to talk to the children.
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  #44  
Old April 15th, 2011, 12:34 PM
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Whether people buy from a BYB , a pet store , an ethical breeder , it doesn't make a difference for the shelter dog that will die because of it.
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  #45  
Old April 15th, 2011, 12:36 PM
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It just seems logic to me that if it wasn't for all these rotten owners, there would be no puppy mills. Why would they breed if they couldn't sell them?
You should ask a question like that to the woman that surrendered over 140 dogs to the OSPCA 10 days ago....."Why did you breed them"
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  #46  
Old April 15th, 2011, 12:40 PM
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you should ask a question like that to the woman that surrendered over 140 dogs to the ospca 10 days ago....."why did you breed them"
Right on Chris!! Bingo!!!!!
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  #47  
Old April 15th, 2011, 12:43 PM
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I think education at the schools is wonderful, twice a year my daughter has the spca come to her class to talk to the children.
Then they grow up and the majority forget all that they were told

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Whether people buy from a BYB , a pet store , an ethical breeder , it doesn't make a difference for the shelter dog that will die because of it.
Amen, Nadine
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  #48  
Old April 15th, 2011, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Goldfields View Post
I am not taking the side of breeders at all, 14+, nor am I looking for an argument. It just seems logic to me that if it wasn't for all these rotten owners, there would be no puppy mills....Educating your children at school(like ours are here) to grow up knowing how to care for animals, that they have them for the animal's life etc. is a great thing, so hopefully they don't grow up like idiot parents who think dogs/cats/pets of all sorts are just a disposable commodity.
Interesting approach GF. I'm all for education! Has it worked? Can you give us some comparative per capita data on the incidence of puppymills/ backyard breeders from whatever Oz's version is of SPCA and Animal Cruelty Investigators? Do you have animal cruelty written into your criminal code? I would love to know the stats on that if so. We are working very hard here in Canada to update our cruelty laws so all info is welcome. The efficacy of childhood education in reducing animal cruelty (inclusive of lowering the rate of BYBers) would be a very interesting read indeed!
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  #49  
Old April 15th, 2011, 12:52 PM
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Then they grow up and the majority forget all that they were told



but if my daughter helps reach even one child....then thats one less idiot to grow up and abuse a pet.....you do what you can, we all do, is that not why we lecture, preach and argue in here? I for one give my daughter a thumbs up for her efforts, she could have the firemen instead....
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  #50  
Old April 15th, 2011, 12:59 PM
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but if my daughter helps reach even one child....then thats one less idiot to grow up and abuse a pet.....you do what you can, we all do, is that not why we lecture, preach and argue in here? I for one give my daughter a thumbs up for her efforts, she could have the firemen instead....
I did say the majority.

I too give my Daughter a .....she has been working trying to improve animal welfare for the past 9 years.

Not sure what the "firemen" have to do with it
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  #51  
Old April 15th, 2011, 01:04 PM
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my daughter is single, firemen are sexy*L* all our spca officers are female.....it was a bit of humour injected into a serious subject
my daughter doesn't have the room to rescue/foster dogs or cats, but she fosters/rescues guinea pigs and rats *L* My grandson loves them.
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  #52  
Old April 15th, 2011, 01:13 PM
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my daughter is single, firemen are sexy*L* all our spca officers are female.....it was a bit of humour injected into a serious subject

Oh, I'm a tad slow on picking up on humour sometimes, especially when it has to do with animals

my daughter doesn't have the room to rescue/foster dogs or cats, but she fosters/rescues guinea pigs and rats *L* My grandson loves them.
My Daughter no longer has room to rescue/adopt either, that's why she works full time for animal welfare.

Our OSPCA is the Provincial headquarters....not all officers are female. In fact out of the 5 they have only 2 are.
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  #53  
Old April 15th, 2011, 01:14 PM
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Whether people buy from a BYB , a pet store , an ethical breeder , it doesn't make a difference for the shelter dog that will die because of it.
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  #54  
Old April 15th, 2011, 01:17 PM
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You should ask a question like that to the woman that surrendered over 140 dogs to the OSPCA 10 days ago....."Why did you breed them"
. It's not only owner surrendered animals that end up in shelters
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  #55  
Old April 15th, 2011, 02:40 PM
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mmmmmm I find the wording of the article a bit harsh, but I suppose the reality *is* harsh. Also, to be honest, I've seen a documentary before about dog shows and the breeding involved and was horrified at the health conditions of some of these purebreds. Does getting a purebred from an ethical breeder really equate a healthy pet? Not so sure about that, especially when genetic susceptibility to certain diseases goes hand in hand with desirable traits.

I think the argument that the only way to not kill a shelter animal is to adopt, is somewhat along the lines of the only way to help an orphan is to adopt an orphan. If everyone stopped having children (or breeders stopped breeding) and adopted instead (babies/pets) then there wouldn't be a problem. But can you tell people to stop having children? No. Obviously, there's more involved with children (people want to have something of themselves, or their own flesh and blood etc), but the idea is that sometimes the most ideal solution to a problem really isn't practically applicable. I would tackle breeding ops, where there are filthy conditions and animals are treated simply as a commodity, before I tackled the 'reputable breeders' and smaller scale BYBs (who really love their animals, give lots of love and care etc but aren't really helping the cause).
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  #56  
Old April 15th, 2011, 02:42 PM
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our spca only has females, we have a few males that "help" out whenever they need it though
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  #57  
Old April 28th, 2011, 11:05 AM
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Interesting approach GF. I'm all for education! Has it worked? Can you give us some comparative per capita data on the incidence of puppymills/ backyard breeders from whatever Oz's version is of SPCA and Animal Cruelty Investigators? Do you have animal cruelty written into your criminal code? I would love to know the stats on that if so. We are working very hard here in Canada to update our cruelty laws so all info is welcome. The efficacy of childhood education in reducing animal cruelty (inclusive of lowering the rate of BYBers) would be a very interesting read indeed!
It would be a good read 3xm, but on real slow dial up I won't be looking for it. I can't even download videos without I wait simply ages. If I talk to my Irish Wolfhound breeder friend, I think she was involved in that education program so she may have some answers. I believe it is funded by our Government. Don't know about the criminal code either, only that people involved in animal cruelty get taken to Court. There is a real sicko up north in this State doing shocking things to horses and the Police are definitely/desperately wanting to apprehend him/her.

In a perfect world, chris21711, the woman with the 140 dogs should be banned from ever having another pet, regardless that she surrendered them. I don't believe anyone should have more dogs than they can care for properly, as you would wish your dog to be cared for.
Sorry I didn't answer this earlier btw, I totally missed it.
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  #58  
Old April 28th, 2011, 01:09 PM
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In a perfect world, chris21711, the woman with the 140 dogs should be banned from ever having another pet, regardless that she surrendered them.

We don't live in a perfect world. One needs to do more than this woman to get banned for life. Let's not forget Goldfields, animals are "property" in this country.......What classification do they have in Australia?....since you don't seem to be very well versed in the cruelty laws of your country, out of curiousity it is something that I will be googling.

I don't believe anyone should have more dogs than they can care for properly, as you would wish your dog to be cared for.

Again, we come back to the perfect world.

Sorry I didn't answer this earlier btw, I totally missed it.
No need for sorry, I'm small and can be easily missed.
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  #59  
Old April 28th, 2011, 08:57 PM
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You wrote ...

....since you don't seem to be very well versed in the cruelty laws of your country, out of curiousity it is something that I will be googling.

Good for you, I'm sure you can do that a lot faster than I can, amd I hope you'll let us know what you find. Unfortunately I can't wait for the result, it's shopping day today. (Tedious, boring, can't wait to get home and I haven't even left yet. )
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  #60  
Old April 29th, 2011, 12:22 PM
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You wrote ...

....since you don't seem to be very well versed in the cruelty laws of your country, out of curiousity it is something that I will be googling.

Good for you, I'm sure you can do that a lot faster than I can, amd I hope you'll let us know what you find. Unfortunately I can't wait for the result, it's shopping day today. (Tedious, boring, can't wait to get home and I haven't even left yet. )
Can't say I understand the point of your post
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