Orijen 80.20? Raw? Confused...

[kdog]

I've finally signed up for one of these internet forums because I'm confused again... I've been through the whole pet food search and now I'm still equally as confused as I was before.

I've been feeding Orijen and EVO... and I did raw for awhile. Now Orijen has their new formula.

I really don't like what they did with their new food, they say there is more meat in the diet (hence the new 80%) but on their guaranteed analysis protein went down and the carbs went up. Yet somehow the price went up too. They keep emphasizing their fresh meat which I don't get either because they still use the meat meals in their diets. I know when you cook the fresh meats that most of it is moisture so you lost like 80% of these fresh ingredients after they're cooked... which would mean it would drop down a lot in their ingredient lists.

The other big thing I dislike is that they seem to increase of the amount of Liver in their foods. They say dogs like their food more because of more fresh meat but I know it's because the chicken liver increased. I'm pretty sure Liver is a by-product too, so why don't I just go to the grocery store for my food???

I'm not sure what to do, as with raw so many of them are just filled with bone and on their guaranteed analysis their protein % and fat % are almost equal. You never see that on a dog food, there should be more protein then fat....

HELP! I don't know what to feed, I thought I learnt everything I needed too!

I've also got the new package of Orijen and an old bag, I'm going to go over them side by side to see what else changed.

[clm]

Liver isn't a by product. It's an organ meat. I don't feed kibble to either of my dogs anymore, but I would not have an issue feeding them Orijen if I were. My breed is picky and all of my dogs over the years have been difficult to feed. I finally smartened up and started home cooking for them.

clm

[kdog]

Originally Posted by clm

Liver isn't a by product. It's an organ meat. I don't feed kibble to either of my dogs anymore, but I would not have an issue feeding them Orijen if I were. My breed is picky and all of my dogs over the years have been difficult to feed. I finally smartened up and started home cooking for them.

clm

Liver *is* a by-product, google chicken by-product and it'll clearly state the definition includes offal (which are organ meats!). Chicken Liver, IMO, is a cheap flavour enhancer that should only be used for supplemental feeding... it should never be used in a regular diet. That is why raw foods always recommend organ meats (offal etc.) as a supplemental feeding.

I'm worried about home cooking, how do you balance the diet?

[clm]

Well, I'm sorry, but I eat liver, and chicken livers so I don't consider them to be a by product.....but I'm sure Google must know better.

To be honest, I have no idea if the diet they are getting is balanced well enough or not, other than the vet saying they are in terrific health and they eat everything I give them, which they were not when on high end kibble and canned.
It's not a cheap diet, but neither is high end kibble and canned food.

Each dog gets these two diets alternated
Diet 1
3 chicken thighs, cooked with skin and bone and the bone removed after cooking and shredded with skin.
1 thick slice of roast beef cut up into small cubes, 1/2 a burger pattie. Patties are hand made from pure lean ground beef.
1/2 can sardines packed in oil
1/4 cup low sodium chicken broth

Diet 2 - 1 whole burger pattie
1 thick slice of roast beef
1.5 slices of cheese broken up
1 egg
1/4 cup low sodium beef broth

If I have leftover pork roast or turkey I add this as a treat and to change up the diets. Leftover ham too, but not too much of that as it's saltier. I also cook up chicken livers or beef liver and add it once in a while too as well as cooked hot dogs or scrambled eggs sprinked on top now and then.

Like I said it can be pricey. Each week at Costco I buy a whole eye of round roast, I package of chicken thighs, 1 package of lean ground beef. All just for the dogs.
As well, once in a while I have to buy one of their bulk packs of sardines and the kraft real cheddar cheese slices.....not the waxy ones individually wrapped, these are real cheddar, sliced but not individually wrapped.

The difference is the dogs love this food and eat it all up. They love the variety in the two different diets as well and with the little additions and tweaks once in a while it's a big hit. Before I started doing this, they wouldn't eat their food without a lot of coaxing and I was throwing out more than they were eating. I had tried every type of high end kibble and canned there was.
Tarter can be an issue with this diet, so they each get a bully stick or a dental bone a couple of times a week. They get no other treats or cookies whatsover except for Sunday morning. When my parents come for coffee I allow my dad to give them a couple of freeze dried liver treats each.

Baxter is 60lbs and Bentley is 40lbs. Baxter is a bigger dog than Bentley, but both are great weights for their size and healthy as can be. Like I said, I have no idea if the diet is balanced, but it appears to be working for them and I'm happy with what they're getting.

clm

[luckypenny]

Originally Posted by kdog

That is why raw foods always recommend organ meats (offal etc.) as a supplemental feeding.

Do you mean commercially prepared raw foods? Where did you find this information?

In a raw diet, liver should make up at least 5% of a canine diet, another 5% should be made up of other organs. If you were feeding a commercially prepared diet, keep in mind many are not nutritionally complete as you've already explained in the one you've fed previously.

Nutritional values of chicken liver...

"This food is low in Sodium. It is also a good source of Thiamin, Zinc, Copper and Manganese, and a very good source of Protein, Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Riboflavin, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Folate, Vitamin B12, Pantothenic Acid, Iron, Phosphorus and Selenium.

Read More http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/poultry-products/667/2#ixzz16oa3NACs"

[kdog]

The raw diet is based on how a dog would eat in the wild right? So if a dog got a rabbit for a meal, how many livers would it eat?

Liver is a bad ingredient the way Orijen is using, they're using too much. I know it's a cheaper ingredient then the other Chicken ingredients they're using and dogs loves it, thats why you see so many "liver' treats.

Originally Posted by luckypenny

Do you mean commercially prepared raw foods? Where did you find this information?

In a raw diet, liver should make up at least 5% of a canine diet, another 5% should be made up of other organs. If you were feeding a commercially prepared diet, keep in mind many are not nutritionally complete as you've already explained in the one you've fed previously.

Nutritional values of chicken liver...

"This food is low in Sodium. It is also a good source of Thiamin, Zinc, Copper and Manganese, and a very good source of Protein, Vitamin A, Vitamin C, Riboflavin, Niacin, Vitamin B6, Folate, Vitamin B12, Pantothenic Acid, Iron, Phosphorus and Selenium.

Read More http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/poultry-products/667/2#ixzz16oa3NACs"

More info about Chicken Liver from your website:
The bad: This food is very high in Cholesterol.

[kdog]

Thanks for the info, I've thought about making their food but I'm worried about vitamins/minerals.

Originally Posted by clm

To be honest, I have no idea if the diet they are getting is balanced well enough or not, other than the vet saying they are in terrific health and they eat everything I give them, which they were not when on high end kibble and canned.
It's not a cheap diet, but neither is high end kibble and canned food.

[smartiez23]

Actually dogs need to have organ meat in their diet. I feed my 3 dogs nutrie-balance and it has organ meat in it and no grains which i like. Also, liver is not a by product.