gangrene?

[ealdc899]

i was just wondering what the signs and symptoms are for a dog that might have extreme pain?

i have had previous nursing experience in a hospital a few years back and i had a client with gangrene. this dog i came across has a severly wounded tail and the odor reminded me of that particular case.

i am only a vet assistant and i don't feel comfortable making any diagnosis' but the owner said her dog is not eating the same amounts as before. could this be a sign of pain?

when the tech's bandage and handle his tail he is extremely calm still... i'm not sure what to think.

[hazelrunpack]

Yes, pain can put a dog off its food. So can infection, however.

What does the vet think? If there are any doubts, maybe having the vet look at the dog again would be a good idea.

[Karin]

If the tail is infected and you know it is gangrene, remove the tail!
I assume this dog is under a vet's care.
I have been through two cases of "flesh eating bacteria", it is not pretty. The smell you describe...you know it once you have been through it.
We lost both our patients (both were young jrt's) after many weeks of treatment. Each case was a year apart. Each dog was involved in a fight with a larger dog and happened during the hot summer months, which promotes bacteria growth. One witnessed a larger dog eating carrion prior to the attack. Again, not good. Both victims had injuries mid section with one a punctured lung.
Aqua therapy is very helpful while removing any dead tissue. Immediate IV antibiotics/LRS should be started when presented. There is also an aerosol spray foam that can be sprayed on the infected area while using aqua therapy that helps to debride the tissue (name escapes me)
If the tail is the only problem...it needs to come off. Gangrene is nothing to mess with..the bacteria can stay more than one step ahead of any treatment. Once in the bloodstream, the race is already over.

*sorry this was so long, brought back 2 bad memories*

[Dr Lee]

Originally Posted by Karin

If the tail is infected and you know it is gangrene, remove the tail!
I assume this dog is under a vet's care.
I have been through two cases of "flesh eating bacteria", it is not pretty. The smell you describe...you know it once you have been through it.
We lost both our patients (both were young jrt's) after many weeks of treatment. Each case was a year apart. Each dog was involved in a fight with a larger dog and happened during the hot summer months, which promotes bacteria growth. One witnessed a larger dog eating carrion prior to the attack. Again, not good. Both victims had injuries mid section with one a punctured lung.
Aqua therapy is very helpful while removing any dead tissue. Immediate IV antibiotics/LRS should be started when presented. There is also an aerosol spray foam that can be sprayed on the infected area while using aqua therapy that helps to debride the tissue (name escapes me)
If the tail is the only problem...it needs to come off. Gangrene is nothing to mess with..the bacteria can stay more than one step ahead of any treatment. Once in the bloodstream, the race is already over.

*sorry this was so long, brought back 2 bad memories*

I am sorry for your bad memories - losing a patient is never easy.

Just a couple of thoughts though.

If the tail is infected and you know it is gangrene, remove the tail! Gangrene is a medical term used to describe the 'death' of an area of the body and its subsequent decay. Gangrene can be with or without bacteria. Gangrene also involves the loss of blood supply. If the tail is infected, then the importance is blood supply. If it is lost and subsequent gangrene (which btw, the term is much more common in human medicine than in veterinary medicine) then Karin's suggestion is perfect that surgical debridement which may include tail amputation is in order. A veterinary visit would be very important at this state to determine the viability of the tissue.

I have been through two cases of "flesh eating bacteria", it is not pretty. The smell you describe...you know it once you have been through it. If an aggressive bacteria is suspected, then culture and sensitivity is recommended, along with antibiotics, proper wound care and supportive care. Culture and sensitivity is the only reliable method to identify a bacterium and more importantly identify the correct antibioitic.


Once in the bloodstream, the race is already over. This is called sepsis and I would agree that anything that can be done to avoid this is very important. However with this said, a pet with sepsis is not 'already lost the race'. Veterinarians safe sepsis cases on a regular basis - true, it is a life threatening situation however I have saved several sepsis cases within the last two months.

Karin, you bring up some excellent points and I hope that my thoughts may have added some additional ideas to yours.

[ealdc899]

this dog is being seen by many vets but they haven't taken gangrene into consideration at all which i find strange.

i know exactly what it is and what happeneds but i'm not in a position to say anything. i've already brought it up and the idea was dissmissed.

it's been 2 months of them bandaging it and it healing but once the bandage comes off and we send the dog home it attacks it again and re-chews it open. he's probably lost a good 4 inches by now. he doesn't attack it when its bandaged tho.

[Dr Lee]

Originally Posted by ealdc899

this dog is being seen by many vets but they haven't taken gangrene into consideration at all which i find strange.

We vets just usually do not use the term 'gangrene'. Devascularized tissue or necrotic tissue is more the norm for us. There are many medical terms which could apply to pets but which we almost never use. It can be confusing. For example superior or inferior - we use cranial and caudal. Instead of rales and rhonchi we use crackels and wheezes. The list goes on and on. Maybe this helps.