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Old May 1st, 2010, 10:52 AM
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Unhappy Hookworm - sharing the news

Crap, Nolie was diagnosed with hookworm

We treated with Heartguard last summer but I guess that didn't do the trick, seems she might have picked it up in the winter (darn poopsicles!!)

Got treatment for her and all that fun stuff (Fenbendazole) so all should be well soon enough. Poor girl though I feel like such neglectful mom for not having noticed something wrong!

Now... the troubling part:
I'm good about picking up poops out on walks BUT my neighbors refuse to. So, it's quite likely that Nolie got hookworm from one of them (or could possibly have infected them ) and now i've got to break the news to them that they really need to get their pups tested. Most people around me don't get their pets tested, nor do they treat for parasites so i'm asking them to do something out of the ordinary (ok, I know they should have testing done on their own, but vets in my area don't seem to insist upon it unless there are symptoms). Any suggestions as to how I break the news to them gently? Should I be offering to cover vet costs?
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R.I.P. Chloe - my first Golden girl - we said goodbye but you will always be here (1994-2007 adopted April 2000)
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Old May 1st, 2010, 12:17 PM
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I wouldn't be offering to pay. If you're picking up Nolie's poops right away I think the chances of you having spread it around are minimal. As for breaking the news to them, you could just tell them the same as you posted here, that you think she picked it up while out walking and they might have as well, that they should get tested. If the owners are people who will not want to follow through maybe fill them in a little on the effects hookworms will have on their dogs.
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Old May 1st, 2010, 12:18 PM
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Otter poor you and Nolie! I am sorry I dont know much about hookworm??

Now I may get slammed for saying this I dont know but from what you described your not 100% where Nolie picked it up, the people around you are obviously not going to care or do anything about it, so I wouldnt say a thing?? and really I am only saying that because your not 100% sure right?
It could mean that IF they decided to care about it they may be putting money out for something they are not sure their dogs have?

What is the treatment? pills? does it require some type of test?

Give Nolie a big smooch for me would you?
Cindy
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Old May 1st, 2010, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otter View Post

We treated with Heartguard last summer but I guess that didn't do the trick, seems she might have picked it up in the winter (darn poopsicles!!)
Yes , Heartguard will only work when they're on it. Once you stop giving it (in the fall / winter) all bets are off.

about telling your neighbors ... I would say it like it is
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Old May 1st, 2010, 12:46 PM
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If she's getting a big enough load, the Heartgard won't keep them at bay. Ours are on it all year and we still have to treat for hookworms (and other worms) three times a year, just to keep the parasite load down.

If Nolie is picking them up from the environment, likely your neighbor's dog is, too. I certainly would not offer to pay for treatment, but I would tell them about it and caution them that cleaning up the yard goes a fair way in stopping infections.

But even with an emaculate yard you'll likely still have trouble with them now and then. They live in the soil and can be contracted through the skin. With all the wildlife here, hookworm is endemic. We don't even test the dogs anymore--just deworm with panacur twice (summer and fall) and with ivermectin once in winter to knock out any lung worms they might have picked up as well.
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Old May 1st, 2010, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gail P View Post
If the owners are people who will not want to follow through maybe fill them in a little on the effects hookworms will have on their dogs.
Very good idea I'll make some copies of the info sheet the vet gave me, to give out when I tell folks. I have to admit I had no idea that worms could be fatal!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winston View Post
Now I may get slammed for saying this I dont know but from what you described your not 100% where Nolie picked it up, the people around you are obviously not going to care or do anything about it, so I wouldnt say a thing?? and really I am only saying that because your not 100% sure right?
It could mean that IF they decided to care about it they may be putting money out for something they are not sure their dogs have?

What is the treatment? pills? does it require some type of test?

Give Nolie a big smooch for me would you?
Cindy
Smooches accepted

I really have no idea where Nolie could have picked it up, could be anywhere but the vet figured just in the last few months and until this week, i've not been away from home. Since hookworm can make doggies VERY sick, I think spreading the news is important, i'd sure want to know if someone else had it (and maybe they do but didn't speak up).

The vet diagnosis hookworm via a stool sample, I guess it's a fairly simple test (cost about $35). Treatment is a dewormer (pancur - fenbendazole) liquid given orally. You treat for three days, and then wait three weeks and treat again, then do another stool test to make sure you got them all.

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Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
Yes , Heartguard will only work when they're on it. Once you stop giving it (in the fall / winter) all bets are off.

about telling your neighbors ... I would say it like it is
Vet said she "shouldn't" be exposed to it through the winter but maybe this year the buggers survived because it wasn't so cold
I've never had a dog with it before, and i've never treated them for heartworm or parasites (it's not in the area where I live so most vets don't treat for it, I just did for Nolie cause I knew we would be traveling southward a couple of times) Of course, the first dog I treat is the first to get them! bleah Oh well.... I guess i'm learning
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Old May 1st, 2010, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
If she's getting a big enough load, the Heartgard won't keep them at bay. Ours are on it all year and we still have to treat for hookworms (and other worms) three times a year, just to keep the parasite load down.

If Nolie is picking them up from the environment, likely your neighbor's dog is, too. I certainly would not offer to pay for treatment, but I would tell them about it and caution them that cleaning up the yard goes a fair way in stopping infections.

But even with an emaculate yard you'll likely still have trouble with them now and then. They live in the soil and can be contracted through the skin. With all the wildlife here, hookworm is endemic. We don't even test the dogs anymore--just deworm with panacur twice (summer and fall) and with ivermectin once in winter to knock out any lung worms they might have picked up as well.
(ack, 15 min for me to reply and in that time hazel has imparted more wisdom!)

So... do you think they could treat their doggies even if they don't want to find out for sure if they actually have the wormies?

I guess that would also depend on finding a vet who will dispense a dewormer without seeing the dog, might not be possible.

Looks like we are joining the masses and starting regular precautionary measures and monitoring. My little bubble has burst our little corner of the universe is no longer safe from the nasties you all deal with so well.
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R.I.P. Chloe - my first Golden girl - we said goodbye but you will always be here (1994-2007 adopted April 2000)
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Old May 1st, 2010, 01:30 PM
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Around here, farmer stores like Farm and Fleet, or even hardware and farm supply stores in the more rural communities, sell ivermectin. We checked with our vet for the proper form of it (we found two different formulations) and the proper dosage and buy it over the counter for our winter deworming. Dosage and dosing schedule can differ depending on what parasites you're dealing with so best to go by what the vet says.

But yes, ivermectin is sold OTC without prescription.

Don't know if their vet will give dosage info, though, until they've actually seen a stool sample. The vet will also ask about the dog's breed or mix of breeds--ivermectin can be dangerous to collies and collie mixes, for instance. So it's not something that everyone can use

So you're thinking they won't be willing to consult a vet about it?
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Old May 1st, 2010, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
Don't know if their vet will give dosage info, though, until they've actually seen a stool sample. The vet will also ask about the dog's breed or mix of breeds--ivermectin can be dangerous to collies and collie mixes, for instance. So it's not something that everyone can use

So you're thinking they won't be willing to consult a vet about it?
We don't have a vet in our town... three hour drive to get to one, so, most people only do regular checkups (yearly) and absolute emergency care. Lots of people let lots of illnesses go unchecked. So, as much as they might be willing to do a deworming, they might not be so willing if it means having to make a trip to the vet. I just want to give people as much info as I can, they can decide from there. You have reminded me though... I have a friend who used to run huskies and had a kennel license so she could buy stuff like vaccines and wormers without a vet, i'll ask if she can still get it. Just to give people options. I'm soooooooooooo afraid someone will get sick cause their owner couldn't or wouldn't get testing or treatment done, i'd feel responsible. If I had the $$$ and time, i'd take everyone's poop and get it tested, just to be sure

I guess I have to get it out of my head that i'm responsible for something that could have come from anywhere. I think telling people is going to put me at fault in their eyes but... I just have to remind myself that Nolie could just as easily have gotten it from them, as their dogs could have got it from her
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Old May 1st, 2010, 01:53 PM
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Or they could have both gotten it from a completely different source. It's not necessarily passed dog-to-dog.

Your friend who had the huskies may well have all the info your neighbor will need. But given the distance to the vets (which I'd forgotten about ) there well might be a vet that would give dosage and dosing schedule info over the phone for something like hookworms, even without an exam

If it's any consolation, many healthy adult dogs tolerate hookworms pretty well. I'd worry about dogs that might be weakened by other health issues, though
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Old May 1st, 2010, 01:54 PM
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Eeek, I looked up, you can buy Panacur over the counter but it must only be sold in industrial "pack" size quantities.... $250 for a 450g TUB
It was only $50 for a Nolie size dose.

I guess if five doggy parents want to go the no testing route, it would be reasonable

More options for the neighborhood
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Old May 1st, 2010, 01:57 PM
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We always buy our Panacur by the pound tub. It's pricey, but less so than if we bought doses separately for all 8 of ours. And the tub lasts us through 2+ treatments so one tub lasts us all year.

As our med bills go, $250 a year is pretty reasonable.
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Old May 1st, 2010, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
If it's any consolation, many healthy adult dogs tolerate hookworms pretty well. I'd worry about dogs that might be weakened by other health issues, though
Our neighborhood "pack" is pretty much all younger, healthy, doggies... for some reason the neighborhood went puppy crazy about three years ago (we'd all lost older doggies at the time, I was the only one that didn't go the puppy route) Good to know they shouldn't be at such risk (of course the vet scared the bejebeees out of me saying it would be fatal) Not such a panic to treat ASAP (cept to keep it from spreading) then. More good info
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Old May 1st, 2010, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
We always buy our Panacur by the pound tub. It's pricey, but less so than if we bought doses separately for all 8 of ours. And the tub lasts us through 2+ treatments so one tub lasts us all year.

As our med bills go, $250 a year is pretty reasonable.
So now I know what to send you for Christmas this year
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Old May 1st, 2010, 02:06 PM
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Just so you know, if the dogs are picking up hookworms, people can get them, too. Again, healthy folks generally tolerate some hookworms okay, but if the parasite load gets too heavy, just like in dogs, it can result in anemia and other health problems.

So no walking around barefoot in the grass--humans usually pick it up through the soles of their feet. It's a big problem in the southern US.
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 07:33 AM
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Otter you can always do a healthy preventative with Nollie too..Most health food stores carry " black walnut extract" as Nollie is about the same weight as Qman it would be 20 drops in her food once a month. It is a long standing parasite killer for both humans and canines, so as Hazel said since it is also a possibility for you to get it you could take it too. And the good news is it is about $7 a bottle. You MUST make sure it is the extract tho not pure black walnut. Our guys are going to be 6 and 4 this year and haven't had worms since pups.
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 08:17 PM
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Fortunately, we only have to treat our little ones yearly with the heartguard.

As far and mentioning anything to the other passerby's, I'm with Winston in that your not really a 100% sure how this all came about and I would just let sleeping dogs lie. If it did stem from any of the pets from your area, then your neighbors should take a vested interest in their pets just as you did with sweet Nolie.

My humble opinion.

BTW...how's Nolie doing now? Smooches from Gryphon & Mollie
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aslan View Post
Otter you can always do a healthy preventative with Nollie too..Most health food stores carry " black walnut extract" as Nollie is about the same weight as Qman it would be 20 drops in her food once a month. It is a long standing parasite killer for both humans and canines, so as Hazel said since it is also a possibility for you to get it you could take it too. And the good news is it is about $7 a bottle. You MUST make sure it is the extract tho not pure black walnut. Our guys are going to be 6 and 4 this year and haven't had worms since pups.
I like the sounds of that stuff
Thanks Aslan!

Out of curiousity, do you give your guys heartworm treatment (chemical stuff) or just the black walnut? If I recall it's good for heartworm too

We're stocked up on all the drugs for this year (AdvantagePlus and Panacur) but we'll definitely look at black walnut for the future. I hate all those chemicals!

Quote:
Originally Posted by klmccallum View Post
Fortunately, we only have to treat our little ones yearly with the heartguard.

As far and mentioning anything to the other passerby's, I'm with Winston in that your not really a 100% sure how this all came about and I would just let sleeping dogs lie. If it did stem from any of the pets from your area, then your neighbors should take a vested interest in their pets just as you did with sweet Nolie.

My humble opinion.

BTW...how's Nolie doing now? Smooches from Gryphon & Mollie
We treated with heartguard last year.. still got infected (could have been after heartguard ended, we stopped in October, or earlier this spring before we started again). From now on we will check poops at least once a year, preventative or not

I've sent my first e-mail with the news... to friends of ours that live out of town but were visiting about a month ago. They are very proactive so I think they will take the news better than some others. I'll see what their reaction is before saying anything to others (my guinea pigs ).


Miss Nolie says "no problem" to the infestation I'm curious to see if some of her variable poop qualities (she gets soft poops quite regularly) clear up once the wormies are gone. Maybe she's been infected since I got her (stool sample is the one test we didn't do when I brought her home ). Heaven forbid if her energy level increases post treatment

Hmmm, anyone have any ideas how to make sure wormies aren't in the soil in your yard? I used to bury poop collected from the yard, now i'm thinking I might have created an infestation in our yard I'm thinking they might not live in soil, too dry, cold, or whatever cause otherwise they'd be everywhere
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R.I.P. Chloe - my first Golden girl - we said goodbye but you will always be here (1994-2007 adopted April 2000)
R.I.P. Molly - my Golden girl, who's causing havoc over the bridge now - (1999-2009 adopted May 2007)
and love for my "lost ones" - Misery, Clover & the girls (chickens)
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 11:07 PM
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Ewwww .

Hope Nolie is back to worm free status quickly and noone else has any problems .
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Old May 2nd, 2010, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otter View Post
Hmmm, anyone have any ideas how to make sure wormies aren't in the soil in your yard? I used to bury poop collected from the yard, now i'm thinking I might have created an infestation in our yard I'm thinking they might not live in soil, too dry, cold, or whatever cause otherwise they'd be everywhere
The infectious phase does live in the soil and is contracted through the skin.

Here's life cycle chart put out by the CDC: http://www.dpd.cdc.gov/dpdx/HTML/Hookworm.htm

It has info on how long they can survive in the soil, as well.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 05:54 AM
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Otter after a long serious discussion with Grace the boys do not get heartguard. They get the black walnut once a month. If they were to get worms i would increase the dosage and they would get it twice a day for three days. knock on wood we've had no wormies.

it was this bit of information that made the choice for me and having spoken to a couple of vets to have them confirm it.

Most veterinarians will recommend giving a daily or monthly pill to prevent heartworms, but in actuality you’re not preventing them; you are administering the cure on a regular basis. This cure for heartworm is toxic. It contains a chemical insecticide. The chemicals are capable of causing disease. The dosage is much smaller than the actual treatment, but when it’s administered month after month, the toxic side-effects become a serious health risk.

Side effects listed for heartworm preventative drugs are: vomiting, diarrhea, convulsions, and weakness. These pills weaken your pet’s immune system which recognizes the chemicals as poison. The body works hard to eliminate the toxins and major organs, like the liver and kidneys, are taxed. For this reason, the pet’s body is not able to handle contact with the normal bacterial or viral substances in our world, so it gets sick more easily.

Part of the veterinary industry has acknowledged these dangers. These “alternative vets” are open to natural, safe and effective alternatives. Many of these vets believe that the long-term use of heartworm prevention drugs are a link in the chain of diseases such as arthritis, liver and kidney diseases, skin allergies, and many types of degenerative problems.
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Old May 3rd, 2010, 10:39 AM
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We've considered black walnut, and it might work if the parasite load in your area is low. Here, we'd probably end up going to toxic levels (black walnut is poisonous and must be used judiciously) for it to be effective. And I'm not sure if it works as well for hookworms as it does for heartworms.
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  #23  
Old October 23rd, 2010, 03:02 AM
G61095 G61095 is offline
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hookworm

I am very worried about my Cali. I got her two weeks ago and she has been on hookworm meds right after I got her. She is not due for her next dose until next week. She was better until now she has got diarrhea again. She eats and drinks and plays it's just the diarrhea.
I just lost my Sheba(14 year old Shepard) in August to a tumor. I am still missing my girl and am afraid to lose Cali.
I know that I have to give the meds time to work, but I don't want to see her suffer. I had thought about shaving some carrots or garlic into her food has anyone used these methods for ridding worms?? Thanks for having a place to voice concerns.
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  #24  
Old October 23rd, 2010, 06:35 AM
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Winston Winston is offline
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I would see what your vet says ? If you want to help witht the diareah you could feed her some rice or even pumpkin..has to be the pure pumpkin and just put a couple fo spoonfuls on her food for a few days..

The carrots are fine but I think garlic is toxic for dogs. Its so hard to be patient and wait for a change.
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  #25  
Old October 23rd, 2010, 08:11 AM
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What are you using to treat the hooks, G61095?

Have you changed her food recently?

It's possible she picked up something besides just the hookworms. For example, giardia is pretty common and causes diarrhea. Our dogs often pick up more than one kind of worm at a time during the summer from all the wildlife that traipses through the yard. So it might be a good idea to have a stool sample sent out to a lab to see what else might be in there.

Probiotic might help--we use a human grade acidophilus capsule sprinkled over our dogs' food. Plain yogurt (no added sweeteners) is also a mild probiotic and dogs seem to love the taste. We add a couple tablespoons a day to their meals.
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  #26  
Old October 23rd, 2010, 08:48 AM
G61095 G61095 is offline
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No food changes. The vet put her on Drontal. She has an appointment on Monday. I'm going to try these suggestions. Thanks for the replys.
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  #27  
Old November 8th, 2010, 05:14 AM
Britney Spears Britney Spears is offline
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Hello,
Just so you know, if the dogs are picking up hookworms, people can get them, too. Again, healthy folks generally tolerate some hookworms okay, but if the parasite load gets too heavy, just like in dogs, it can result in anemia and other health problems.
So no walking around barefoot in the grass--humans usually pick it up through the soles of their feet. It's a big problem in the southern US.
Regards,
Ali.
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