Really need help--house training (long)

[Eleni]

my other thought too was you mentioned his potty spot outside is gravel, what about putting soem gravel in the litter box and maybe he will associate gravel as his place to go, then once he develops the habit of using the litter box stop using the gravel and use jsut the litter.

dunno if it would work but its worth a try.

I know since my dogs potty spot is on grass that he will ONLY go on the grass now, if we are on concrete or anything else he will jsut whimper and dance till i move him to some grass.

Eleni

[aussiemedogs]

I have had a few stubborn dogs in my lifetime, I don't know if this will help but I think it may be worth a shot....
Your little guy likes to do his *stuff* in his kennel, this is where he feels it should be done at this time. Well when you paper train a dog and then decide you want the dog to go outside you normally would bring a soiled newspaper outside when its time for the pup to go...and hope that their is enough of a scent to make the dog want to go where he feels is the *right* place.

My suggestion is that you get a dog pen/ really large crate and place the crate that he is using for his toilet inside of it. For the time being let him think this is where you want him to go (in the smaller crate) but also leave a clean bed at the other end of the pen for him to sleep in and a few toys. If you need to leave food for him during the day, hide it throughout the pen/ under his blanket in corners let him look for it and have fun at the same time, (this is to help divert him from going back into the small crate where hopefully he has done his bussiness). Go out and get a tarp to protect your floor from any messes.

This guy has been taught to sleep in his own *stuff* you need to divert his attention to amusing himself while you are gone. If you succeed in having him just use the smaller crate as his own toilet then I suggest you take the crate outside with you when you want him to do his bussiness, after 2-3 weeks of this and once you have figured out his scheduale then I would test him....at the very last moment (when you know he needs to go) scoop him up and go outside without the crate, sure he is going to panic and not know what to do, may even stop himself from going, but you are the wiser of the 2, you know its there and needs to come out...wait, read a book whatever it takes but make sure he goes outside before you bring him back in.

As for praise sure that works with most dogs, maybe your dog would respond better with a playtime after relieveing himself. All of my guys respomd very well to praise but when I bring out their *special* toy (this is something I donot allow them to play with or chew on) unless I am playing with them. They have learnt now that this is our special time together and the toy only comes out when they have done something I have asked.

Good luck to you, don't know if any of this will help, but it may be worth a shot!

[Cactus Flower]

Been lurking on this thread for a little while. Just wanted to say I was really impressed by your suggestion, Aussie. Good thinking! Maybe even scooting the "potty" crate closer and closer to the door would work (like people do with paper and training pads).

[amber416]

I agree, nice work Aussie and I love the idea of this dog being in a pen/really big crate..that's my favorite part i think!

[aussiemedogs]

Thanks, I have trained many dogs and have had a few that were thought to be untrainable, but through time and patience...it can be done.
My other suggestion is when you are home (on the week-ends) see if you can borrow a playful trained dog...this is the fastest method of outdoor training I have seen.

All they seem to do is play, play, play and then pee & poop and play some more. My last 2 dogs were not housetrained and quite stubborn, I ignored the accidents and just let the older dogs train him...the last one I took in I was told as I was leaving with him that ummmmm he is dirty in the house....well let's see now, does 1 pee mean he is dirty? not in my books, he followed the pack and is totally housetrained, just chews the entire house to bits if he is unsupervised.

It is so much easier to train a dog that the outdoors is his personal toilet and not the floor when you have another dog to teach/follow him.

[Cactus Flower]

Oh that is so true! Trained dogs are great dog-trainers, aren't they?!


Well, Melissa, I hope you're still reading. You've got a whole range of good suggestions on here, and quite a few sets of fingers crossed. If rehoming this dog is out of the question, surely these tips and your determination will pay off.

Good luck!

[puppup11]

Originally Posted by dogmelissa

The crate he's in now is a "medium" sized wire crate--3' wide & 4' long. It's designed for things like Chows & Keeshonds. I have about 1/4 of the kennel covered in puppy-pads (taped down *really* well), then he has a wicker basket with a towel for a bed (doing the laundry is much easier than when I had a blanket in there!), and I leave him a small amount of food in a bowl, and he has one of those rabbit water bottles. He has enough room to lay on the floor of the kennel and stretch out without getting into the puppy pad, he can lay in his bed (not big enough to stretch out in but close), but he chooses to lay directly on the soiled puppy pad.

I think we're already talking about a small dog in a large crate - I'm not sure if an even larger one would make much difference without actually training him to go on the puppy pads or litter box. He will still do his business wherever he feels like it in a large crate or a small one, in my opinion, without some kind of training. To me it sounds like he's doing his business in the crate when she's gone because he's confined there, not because he purposely wants to do his business there.

[dogmelissa]

I like the idea of the larger crate, but what I'd have to do for that is introduce a smaller crate into the one he's in now. My house is only 891 sq ft, and unless I devote an entire room (the one I'm in now, for example, which has about enough room for my computer, a side table with my printer on it and my sewing machine), I just don't have space for a crate that's any bigger than the one I have. Seriously. We are talking about a dog that weighs 9 lbs, is about 18" long (nose to bum) and stands about 12" at the shoulders, and he is in a crate that is 23" wide and 36" long. It's not the size of the crate that's the problem; he COULD get out of it if he chose to. To get a bigger crate (which would have to be the "large" version of this one (30" W x 48" D x 36" H) would give me exactly a one Cube-space bigger crate (a Cube-space being the amount of space my dog-named Cube-would take up). Hardly seems worth it for the $100 it would cost me for the crate. That being said, I *have* tried putting him in the bathroom with a puppy pad taped in one corner and his blanket in the other. He'll pee on the puppy pad, poop on the puppy pad, then pee in his blanket. Then he'll walk through everything. I honestly want to give him the benefit of the doubt--somewhere in there I KNOW there are normal dog instincts--but I've just reached the end of my rope. I've tried everything short of sending him to doggy boot camp; everything I can afford that is. And nothing has worked. So that's fine. I've changed my attitude, and it's ok. There will be messes to clean up when I get home, that's a given. He'll either need a clean blanket, a bath, a kennel scrub, or all 3. But if I can still find things about him that I love--like the fact that he can't run as fast as the other dogs, but tries, and the fact that he does everything in his power to make me happy, especially when he doesn't know what I'm asking him--then I can tolerate having to clean up a little bit of poop. So what? It's not the end of the world. He's not damaging my house, he's not hurting the cats. He's not even hurting himself. So what if I have to do an extra load of laundry every week? So what if I go through a bottle of bleach every week? I have a dog that loves me, and so what if he just can't understand where and when to poop?
We'll all survive.

Thanks for the suggestions, but I'm really just giving up on this. I will continue to get him to ring the bell everytime we go out, and I will continue to walk him as much as possible in the hopes that he is empty when he goes in his kennel. I will continue to keep his kennel food- & water-free when I'm not home. I will continue to clean up everyday. And if there is anything else that anyone might suggest, other than a lot of patience, feel free. I can't guarantee I'll try it, but at least it'll be out there if I decide to later.

Thanks again,
Melissa

[doggy lover]

Dog melissa I have been having a few problems with my border collie and I found this book on non-agressive dog training by Jan Fennell it is called The Dog Listener, it is a great book and she has stories in it about dogs that she has helped, one of her own was a rescue. It is great of you to take in this poor dog and I must say you have alot of work before you taking in one that has been abused, good luck.

[dogmelissa]

Just wanted to let you all know what has been going on in my house.
First: I have restricted food intake to evenings-only. He is free-fed in the evenings when I am home and for about half an hour in the morning (while I shower) and otherwise does not have access to food or water. This has helped somewhat.
Secondly: I rigged up a wire-mesh about an inch above the bottom of the crate. He was having some problems with his feet, mostly due to walking in his own urine during the day, I'm sure, and this has helped with that problem, and also allows his poops to be squished through the mesh (small feet = small openings) onto the bottom below so there are less messes, assuming he doesn't poop on his blankets.
Third: He is now taking, twice daily, a 1/2 dropper full (not sure how much exactly) of Dr Goodpet's Calm/Stress drops (I found these at Walmart). Not sure if these are doing any good but they make me feel better, so I keep giving them to him.
Since the weather has also been nicer, his evenings walks have been much longer. We're now walking almost an hour in the evenings, and when I have time/nice weather, about 15 minutes in the mornings.
He is still kenneled during the day and at night, or anytime I'm not at home.

Results: he has started going to the front door and looking at me when he needs to go out. Not sure why the front door, but I'm not complaining. I've noticed almost everytime he's done this, and have only had two accidents in the house when I was home in the last 3 weeks or so. He still regularly pees and/or poops in his kennel during the day, but as it's contained, I just deal with it. Lots of laundry & dog-baths and otherwise it's ok.
He will now ring the bell at the back door without a command when I'm putting him out, but still hasn't made the connection that it's a cause-effect relationship with the bell being a trigger for me to open the door for him. Will continue to work on this.
I've given up on the litter box. Would like to see him use a litter box, especially in the winter, but I don't have the time or ability to train him to it right now and I'd rather he was just house-trained and not worry so much about the box.

He's a happy dog, loves his walks, loves to play (though doesn't seem to like any of his toys!) and is doing really well.
Thanks for all the advice and suggestions, but the best ones were patience and persistence. I still have days when I'm frustrated, but at least he's showing some improvement. I can wait for perfection.
Thanks again!!
Melissa

[adplater]

A big Woo Hoo for Cube!!!!

I'm glad everything is working out!

[skyeonphyre]

Good for you for being such a wonderful human being, for being patient and loving and for asking for help when you needed it. Everyone has offered you some great suggestions. Our doggie is not so house trained. We dont have her on a strict schedual since we also work. But shes good in her kennel most days.
You could always try taking her out lots, which I imagine you do. When I started letting willoh out of her kennel, I would pick her up and take her straight outdoors. And reward reward reward saying the words "pee, poop, treat" alot. You could also try puppy pads for indoor use. And use scents and sprays you can buy at most stores that attract the pet to the matt to pee/poop on. You could also provide one in a larger kennel with room for her to have a pee/poop area, sleep area, etc.
I also dont make a habit of putting a lot of food/water in her kennel when we are gone. She can eat after we get home from work so she dont have those accidents. Water is a little harder to keep away as in the summer it gets quite hot. But in moderation. She dont need big bowls of it around all day.
Last resort, Caesar Milan.... the Dog Whisperer. Drop him and email. You rescued a puppy thats been thru hell. You opened your arms and your home to her. I am sure your story would inspire others.
Hang in there.
Remember, routine, rewards, restrict food in the kennel, use indoor dog pad training until you get the outdoor training under wraps. Good luck and God Bless you and your doggie!

[14+kitties]

Welcome Skyeonphyre. Don't know if you noticed but this thread is from 2005.