Runny poops again

[angeldogs]

I'm still feeding Jag only 2.5lbs a day.well were back to the runs again.this time it had bright red blood.so i'm going to see if i can get him into the vet today.i think the blood was his and i don't like that or the runs again either.
i don't know what to do anymore.changed from big runny ones on kibble and only go a couple of day with firm then back to runs again on raw.so i don't think it's his diet.

[TeriM]

Hope he is ok . Are you feeding regular bones or ground up ones?

[angeldogs]

i'm feeding regular bones.he hasn't had any bone in stool since i cut back on the food.could the blood be from anul glads at all.

[TeriM]

How many days has he had runny poops?

[angeldogs]

I will have to ask when the rest wake up.what they were like yesterday.the joys of sleeping during the day.i hope the vet can see him.i think i'm going to pickup some orijen today and see how that works.i'm tired of the runs.

[TeriM]

If I were you I'd actually do some home cooked for about a week or so and then ease into something like the Orijen. I'd say his system needs some time to rest. Maybe a stew like recipe with meat, sweet potato or regular potato and some veggies?

You can actually supplement kibble with raw meat (no bone) up to 20% of the total. That is what I am doing with Riley and have had great results.

[Scott_B]

A little bright red blood just means there is a slight irrtation in the lower intestine. Its when there is dark blood that you shuld be concerned. So what exactly did you feed the last few days?

[technodoll]

hmm i highly doubt that switching from a pure, simple raw diet to a processed grainy hard to digest diet will improve things but who knows...

i have a feeling that if you feed ground bones in the 20 to 25% range... you could get a break here... and no dairy...

well good luck at the vet's and remember, they will blame everything in the diet eh? try to make you feel like a bad parent... most vets don't know squat about nutrition so they love to point the finger to make themselves look better

[x.l.r.8]

Aww, poor Jag, how is he in himself?. I'd be a little concerned about going back to kibble, not that I'm against kibble at all, it's just that the additional change may make things worse. Same as if you switched brands of kibble you would expect some adverse reactions, the additional change might clear up one thing but present you woth something else. Maybe back off a bit from the bones for a day, then reintroduce some soft ones like chicken frame (rather than neck/back).
I know I used to freak when I saw some blood and still would, your right to be concerned. You may find with the less food the bone concentration is now to high as its only a small percent. Maybe good old egg shells in some ground for a day or two might also help. At the end of it, you have to do whats best for Jag so please keep up informed on how things turn out, (me especially as I think Jag's one handsome fellow )

[angeldogs]

He's digesting bone.there as been no bone in his poop at all.which is a good thing.firm poops on chicken.he had some ground pork and turkey.we think the ground pork might be causing it.i asked the others and his soft pasty runny poops started after i gave him some pork.whats also hard is i'm in bed sleeping in the day when he does poop and it's picked up right away so i don't see it.x.l.r.8 i will let jag know that you think that of him

[technodoll]

and let jag know TD thinks he's a hunky studmuffin as well!

[angeldogs]

TD i will do that.i already told him for you and x.l.r.8

[JohnB]

Angeldogs, just wanted you to know im having the same problem with my boy.
Every other poop is runny, not full blown skwirts. He does great on chicken, but if i add beef, liver, egg or fish he gets runny stools.

The benefits i see outway it all i would never go back to kibble.

Best of luck to you and Jag.

John

[angeldogs]

Thanks JohnB.i think it was the pork or the turkey skin on a back.

[Prin]

hmm i highly doubt that switching from a pure, simple raw diet to a processed grainy hard to digest diet will improve things

Orijen's not grainy... But it might help, IMO, because he's obviously not doing so hot on raw...

[technodoll]

seems to me jag is doing superb on raw, just a few items that don't go down so well. happens to dogs in kibble too, feed them a piece of cheese and they get the squirts. no need to change the whole diet, just some tweaking and he'll do fine again. an artificial, processed diet is NOT the way to go, for any dog IMO. sorry.

[angeldogs]

Still have the runs.there was 2 small firm ones surronded by the runs :sad:

will it ever end

[technodoll]

What has Jag eaten the past 3 or 4 days, exactly?

Are you giving him digestive enzymes and probiotics?

Canned pumpkin to help things firm up?

A little firm in the runny poops is good! you can beat this and we'll help you! just have to know what Jag has eaten, how many meals per day, how much, etc... is he still eating sticks? does he get treats? nobody sneaking him stuff you might not know about?

[angeldogs]

Up untill yesterday.he's had chicken and had firm poops.He's also had ground pork.i'm leaning towards the turkey back because of the skin.he's had firm poops on ground pork.when we were doing the test i ran out of ground beef and gave him ground pork for a couple of days and was fine.yesterday he had pork tonge which he's had before and nothing.also beef heart and the same nothing happened.in the likes of the runs.canned sardines.the wife gave as a treat well we were out of some.

[technodoll]

so *in general* jag's had firm poops the past two weeks or so? If that is the case, then a bit of runny poops once in a while is normal! LOL happens to my dogs on the odd days for no reasons; on other days it's just cuz they had too much food. or a treat that didn't go down all that well. or if they get exercise and poop before their "due time", it's runny cuz the water didn't have enough time to be absorbed by the intestines - had they pooped a few hours later, it would have been firm. I don't know of any humans that have perfect brick poops every single day either, do you?

unless it's constant runny poops, diarrhea, the dog is not feeling well, etc... just take it as it is. remember you are feeding real food, varied food, and you are getting real poop - and it does vary.

[TeriM]

Originally Posted by technodoll

If that is the case, then a bit of runny poops once in a while is normal!
I don't know of any humans that have perfect brick poops every single day either, do you?

unless it's constant runny poops, diarrhea, the dog is not feeling well, etc... just take it as it is. remember you are feeding real food, varied food, and you are getting real poop - and it does vary.

I respectfully disagree. Runny poops, especially with blood in them are NOT normal. I have fed Lucy raw for 8 years and she maybe has diarrhea one day a year and that would be from something she scrounged off the ground. Humans don't have perfect poops everyday but if you had runny, bloody stools you would not think that is normal.

It seems to me like Jag has had ongoing problems. Cutting the food back didn't make much difference and based on his recent pics he was definately not fat on the amount he was getting so I am now concerned that he might be a bit underfed. If you are determined to stay on raw then I would at least do an experiment with the prepackaged raw with the bones ground up. Buy some varieties and see what works and what doesn't. If you can identify it as just a protein source then great, move forward and go back to the regular model you feed. If not then I think you may need to explore other options.

Not every dog can do raw any more than every dog can do kibble or any other diet. They are all individuals.

[technodoll]

then we can agree to disagree - none of the raw-feeders i know personally have dogs with perfect poops every single day, unless their diet never varies in amount and items fed. and that is not the point of a raw diet.

bright red blood in poops signal an intestinal irritation, often brought on by diarrhea or sharp objects in the colon (ie shards of wood, or bones). i agree this is not desirable but it is certainly normal under these conditions, it's what the body does. now how to get rid of it!

angeldogs your posts are not very clear, is jag suffering from bloody poop all the time? often? once in a while? does he have watery diarrhea? or pudding poop? how often? is he still chewing sticks? you mentioned sardines, that is oily fish and he maybe didn't digest that well. it's hard to judge and to help without being there and getting the whole picture, to be honest. I think jag looks great, wonderful musculature - does your vet say he is thin?

[TeriM]

Originally Posted by technodoll

then we can agree to disagree - none of the raw-feeders i know personally have dogs with perfect poops every single day, unless their diet never varies in amount and items fed. and that is not the point of a raw diet.

Trust me, she gets lots of variety. I know lots of raw feeders who never have poop problems and that is one of the primary reason that they feed raw in the first place.

I suggested the pre-packaged, ground bone to see if he would be fine with that. If he is then it is obviously something that is being fed "wrong" (for lack of a better word - not meant to criticize) now and could then be adjusted. It may also give Jag's system a chance to recover.

[angeldogs]

The blood in the stool was the first time.the other time was from the food and didn't know that when i first started raw.and the canned sardines are the first ones he's had since on raw.i have raw sardines from portugal that he's had and seem fine with them but hasn't had in a while.his poops are both watery and pudding.this last one with the two frim ones the runs part was slimmy.and since feeding bone again there has been no bone in the poop.
the vet said he looked good.and at 81.4 lbs on there scale.she only said raw isn't a balanced diet and if i wanted to continue feeding it she would help make it a balanced diet.it would cost to much to go the patties.it was getting to expensive feeding raw at first.but found a place to buy cheaper.being the only income it can be hard.or jag would have the best of the best.TD and when we did the ground beef test.his poops have been firm up till the last couple of days.

[x.l.r.8]

The slime is probably the colon producing mucos to help it recover from the irratation. We get slime poops everynow and then, but we vary so much it's hard to distinguish. All are very small and so far the only reason we have for the runs s if I go gung ho with introducing something new and give it on it's own rather than a little at a time with the regular stuff, once transitioned I seem to be able to give it on it's own without having to transition any more.
Kudos on your vet to respect what your trying to acheive, if only mine was that accomidating, we just don't discuss food after the cat incident. I think we need another picture jsut to judge how he's doing

[angeldogs]

x.l.r.8.Jags been eating the same kinds of foods since i started.i haven't introduced any new meats at all other then a cornish hen a few weeks back.same fish,pork,beef,turkey and chicken.the gang here say's fri.had firm small poops the runs started on saturday.

[barkley21]

TeriM,
I have to agree with Technodoll about the bloody poops. Granted it is not ideal and should not happen on a regular basis, but we have had it happen with our pup as well on occasion and it happened usually if his meal was too boney or if he munched on some sticks at the park and his colon got a bit irritated as a result. I agree that bright red blood isn't the end of the world because it indicates external irritation. If you're seeing dard red (black like tar) blood, then that is more serious and can be indicative of internal bleeding which is cause for panic. Obviously none of us likes to see blood in our pooch's poops, but once in a while s*** happens (pardon the pun)

Angeldogs,
I think that maybe you should use the KISS principle for a while until you can figure out what is causing this. Keep his diet simple by only sticking to one meat source that you know for a fact he has done well on and feed only that for a week or so. I think variety should not be your main focus at this point...at least not until you can get his rear end sorted out. If you're throwing things like ground beef, turkey backs (which I personally find too boney to begin with unless you're adding A LOT of extra boneless meat), sardines, and pork into the mix, you're just making it that much harder to figure out for yourself. If he did well on ground beef, then stick with that for a week and see how his poops are. Maybe add ground eggshells if he's having problems with bones, but don't get fancy and add anything else. Avoid any treats as well in case they can be the culprit.

I found from personal experience that sometimes it just takes a bit of time, that's all. Our pup had the same poops that your dog is experiencing now when we first started, so I really do sympathize with what you're going through. We played around with the equation from all angles...adding more bones, reducing bones, trying different types of meat, varying amounts of meals, etc and one day it just sort of all came together. I have a feeling Jag will be the same way. When we got to the point that we were fed up with the pudding poops, we just fasted him for a day and then started back from square one with a boneless, skinless chicken breast and a small chicken drumstick with the skin removed. Poops were nice so we didn't change a thing for a week. Then we added a cube of stewing beef to the chicken meal and checked the poops. Still good. A week later we tried two beef cubes, etc, etc. and before I knew it he was eating everything from beef, chicken, pork and turkey to tripe and fish.

Hang in there and don't give up yet. If we gave up on raw, our pup would have missed out on so much of this raw yumminess that he's thriving on now

[angeldogs]

Barkley21.
the only thing i can fiqure that caused it was the turkey back it had the skin.he was firm small poops until saturday is what i was told by the home crew.and with bones if there isn't anough meat i do add xtra meat.i keep trying to fiqure this out and thats the only thing i can fiqure.maybe it was the green tripe but that was days before this all started.this is exhausting trying to get this right.

[barkley21]

I hear ya. That's why I think sticking to one meat source and adding nothing for a while is so important at this stage. If you are feeding variety, you will always be saying "maybe it was the turkey backs because of the skin, or then again it might have been that sardine snack that my wife fed him, or, or, or..."
Try eliminating the tripe, snacks, fish, any supplements, etc and stick to one thing for a while. I know it feels like you're feeding the most boring and bland meal in the world but it all works out great in the end.

[technodoll]

tell you what. the kids here get a rotation of mostly the same stuff, and have pretty fantastic poops. well friday night both were farting like crazy, and we couldn't figure out why since they had nothing different or unusual for dinner. saturday (yesterday) maika's poop was perfect, dakotah had cannon butt in the park but he was fine after that... we fed him his regular dinner and today his poops are perfect again.

like barkley said, ***** happens!