Go Back   Pet forum for dogs cats and humans - Pets.ca > Discussion Groups - mainly cats and dogs > Dog training - dog behavior

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old March 6th, 2006, 04:43 PM
sprayeddog sprayeddog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 101
Update on Matty .... sigh.

Matty is 9 months old now and he's still very much a handful ...

I talked about how Matty's a counter-surfer last time ... many posters have suggested the water bottle trick and we've done that, as well as isolate him (lock him up in the washroom) for a few minutes everytime we catch him doing it. Well, it hasn't really worked. Matty still jumps up to sniff / bite things from the counter top if there's food or anything that catches his attention on the counter top. The latest is he grabbed my wife's ipod from the counter top and left a few dents on it when I finally caught him chewing on it a few minutes later. At least the ipod still works ... .

Worse, we noticed he's been scratching the dry-walls as well. A few months back, when Matty was ~ 4 months old, we kept him in a fenced off area in the upstairs washroom during the daytime when we go to work. One day we came back we found that he's dug a hole on the washroom's drywall and that's when we got a crate for him. And it worked, for a while anyways. Over the past 2 weeks we notice a few scartch marks on the dry walls close to where his crate is. We crate him when we go to bed at night, and also when we go to work in the afternoon, and apparently when he's in the crate for long he keeps hitting the crate until he gets close to a dry wall, and starts scratching the wall with his paws through the crate.

I don't know how to tackle this one cos there isn't really an area in our house that is 1/ tiled (if we put the crate on hardwood floor or a carpeted area he'll destroy the carpet / hw floor underneath) and 2/ isn't reasonably close to a wall. Worse comes to worst I'll have to leave the crate in the unfinished basement which will be a last resort cos the basement is cold and dark.

We don't understand why he likes to scratch the wall. The wall is just a plain, flat wall - there's no smell or anything to it. And there are plenty of toys inside the crate as well.

And it's not like we don't exercise him ... we spend ~ 30 minutes to play with him inside the house in the morning, ~ 30 minutes after we get home from work at night, and walk him everyday.

My wife and I are getting pretty exhausted emotionally at this point ... Matty is a cute lab but he only behaves when we're A/ feeding him or B/ playing with him. We cannot possibly play with him 7/24. And when you're not playing with him, he can be very annoying, to downright destructive.

When we try to sit down and watch a TV show, we get interrupted every minute or so, because he'd be biting on the vaccum cleaner's hose, and when we correct him he'd go and bite the magazine, and when we tell him "No" he' go on to bark at us. We'd isolate him for a few minutes, let him back out, and he'll bite some DVD cases ... on and on and on. When we're upstairs he'd bite dirty laundry from the laundry basket and chew on it, you correct him, and the minute he gets back inside the room he goes right to the laundry basket again. After a few more times of correction, he'd bite my slippers for a change, or bite my wife's glasses. You correct him again, and he'd bark at us.

I don't believe we've done anything terribly wrong in the training process. Matty isn't our first dog but we haven't had so much trouble with any other dog (I've had a beagle, my wife's had a cocker spaniel and a german sheppard / collie mix). Never have we given in to his barking or his annoyance. We've never rewarded him for doing something wrong, and we've been as consistent and as assertive as we could be, while still being as kind and loving as possible after we've punished him.

Please tell me ...

1. Labs are energetic dogs but when they're fully grown they don't behave in this manner their entire life-span

2. Matty is potentially going through a 'rebellious' stage growing into an adult, which is only a temporary thing

3. We're not the only ones going through this, and as long as we're patient with him he'll eventually turn around.



Thanks,
SD
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old March 6th, 2006, 04:55 PM
chico2's Avatar
chico2 chico2 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 26,591
I have next to no experience with puppies,but it seems to me,Matty is bored,spends too much time either in a crate or closed in,in a bathroom.
Not good for a puppy,he needs attention,love and training,I would assume almost all the time.
I would also think having a puppy means not having too many quiet nights in front of the TV,but these are all things you should probably have taken in to account before you got a puppy.
My son had a JRT-puppy,who practically destroyed his condo,table-legs,shoes,walls etc..simply because she was bored.
Have you thought of trying to find someone to take him for a walk during the day? Just to free him from the crate for a while and maybe get tired and want to sleep.
I know I probably am oldfashioned,but I never believed in caging a puppy for the whole day and night,no wonder they go bananas:sad:
__________________
"The cruelest animal is the Human animal"
3 kitties,Rocky(r.i.p my boy),Chico,Vinnie
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old March 6th, 2006, 05:00 PM
happycats's Avatar
happycats happycats is offline
Senior Contributor
Hexxagon Champion
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ontario
Posts: 4,665
I agree with Chico.
Dogs need something to do, a purpose, stimulation. if they don't have that, they make their own jobs/fun, and most of the time it's destructive!

Your dog definately needs more excercise/stimulation!

have you thought about doggie daycare?
__________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What is man without beasts? If all the beasts were gone, men would die from great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected.

~~Chief Seattle (Duwamish tribe)~~
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old March 6th, 2006, 05:13 PM
Slams_58 Slams_58 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Leduc, AB
Posts: 81
On the dry wall topic... My Samoyed used to shave the dry wall off with her teeth thru the grates on her crate. To this day... if we're drywalling anything... she'll eat the chunks of Gyproc that are on the ground. It's like chalk so it must be the salt or something.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old March 6th, 2006, 05:36 PM
jessi76's Avatar
jessi76 jessi76 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: U.S.
Posts: 2,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprayeddog
Matty is 9 months old now and he's still very much a handful ...
9 months is a tough time - he's definately in the idiot phase (forget training, act out, etc.. he WILL grow out of it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprayeddog
I talked about how Matty's a counter-surfer last time ... many posters have suggested the water bottle trick and we've done that, as well as isolate him (lock him up in the washroom) for a few minutes everytime we catch him doing it. Well, it hasn't really worked.
I don't see how isolating him would help this... does he know the command OFF? or LEAVE IT? if not, I'd work on teaching him those, he needs to learn the counter is off limits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprayeddog
And it's not like we don't exercise him ... we spend ~ 30 minutes to play with him inside the house in the morning, ~ 30 minutes after we get home from work at night, and walk him everyday.
you're doing a great job, but he may need more exercise. 30 min 2/day and one walk may not be enough for endless 9mth old lab energy! I agree that doggy daycare may be a good option for you (if available in your area).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprayeddog
When we try to sit down and watch a TV show, we get interrupted every minute or so...
When I want to watch a show on TV I give my dog a real bone, a treat filled ball, a stuffed kong, or a nylabone, because I know if I don't, he'll get himself into trouble.

and no! you haven't done anything wrong! Labs can be handfulls... I think you're doing great! thanks for the update
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old March 6th, 2006, 09:11 PM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprayeddog
We don't understand why he likes to scratch the wall. The wall is just a plain, flat wall - there's no smell or anything to it. And there are plenty of toys inside the crate as well.

And it's not like we don't exercise him ... we spend ~ 30 minutes to play with him inside the house in the morning, ~ 30 minutes after we get home from work at night, and walk him everyday.
Sorry but that's not enough exercise for a lab. Labs are high energy dogs; they destroy when they're bored. If your lab is destructive, chances are he's bored. You need to at least, at the very least, double the playing time and the walking time. My lab/husky didn't do well in her last home (she ate the entire dining room set) because she needed a two hour chunk of playtime, along with regular walks and short play sessions on the walks. Every day!

Quote:
Please tell me ...

1. Labs are energetic dogs but when they're fully grown they don't behave in this manner their entire life-span

2. Matty is potentially going through a 'rebellious' stage growing into an adult, which is only a temporary thing

3. We're not the only ones going through this, and as long as we're patient with him he'll eventually turn around.
Well, I can tell you that with LOTS of regular exercise and fairly strict, very consistent training, labs become very lovely, devoted dogs. If you work hard now, by the time the lab is 4, it will quiet down noticably. But still not as much as other dogs.

The rebellious stage does end, if you don't reward the behaviors and you win all the tests. Dogs in adolescence have been in a certain place in the pack all along and just want to figure out if that is exactly where they should be. So they test you. And if they win, they move up.

You're definitely not the only one who has been through this. That's why I adopt older labs, preferably older than 1.5 years.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old March 7th, 2006, 07:54 AM
sprayeddog sprayeddog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 101
Thanks for all the support and kind words.

Yesterday I went home and he's somehow moved the crate from the kitchen into the living room area, and badly scratched some of our hardwood floors ... sigh.

We'll try to give him more exercise ... it isn't easy as both of us work full-time. As for doggie daycare, we can think about it but it gets expensive.

As for the poster asking about isolation - I was told in training it's one of the more effective methods to punish him. If you catch the dog doing something inappropriate, you take away something they like, and for labs like Matty, it's to be able to socialize with us. It's worked on certain things (like barking, which was a serious problem for Matty but has come down substantially now) ...

Matty clearly knows what's right and what's wrong (or, he knows what pleases us and what makes us mad) but I got a feeling at this stage he's just constantly testing his boundary ... we'll just try to be consistent and assertive and patient with him.


SD
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old March 7th, 2006, 09:58 AM
jessi76's Avatar
jessi76 jessi76 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: U.S.
Posts: 2,510
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprayeddog
As for the poster asking about isolation - I was told in training it's one of the more effective methods to punish him. If you catch the dog doing something inappropriate, you take away something they like, and for labs like Matty, it's to be able to socialize with us. It's worked on certain things (like barking, which was a serious problem for Matty but has come down substantially now) ...
I understand how isolation works, and why it works, but I don't think it's appropriate for the counter-surfing. Instead of focusing on "punishment" for this, I think you should focus on teaching Matty to respect limits.

I'd set him up for learning... put a tempting item on the edge of the counter, have matty on leash, and if he tries to grab the item, you'll have control to keep him from it, say OFF or LEAVE IT, when he looks at you and takes his attention away from the counter, praise him like crazy! even give a treat if you use treat-rewards. This way you set him up to learn, instead of relying on isolation (where he's not really LEARNING anything)
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old March 7th, 2006, 11:10 AM
phoenix's Avatar
phoenix phoenix is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Peterborough, Ontario
Posts: 993
Yes labs definitely need more exercise than this... mine (lab/boxer) needs at least a 1 h walk/ day PLUS a playtime with other dogs to be completely sane... Plus mine has another puppy to play with for most of the day. If we do this (he is 15 months now), we can relax on the couch with him in the evenings. If we don't, he lets us know. Mind you he has never been destructive, just pesky.
You can't tire him out like other dogs can. Does he know how to fetch? I taught Sam this early on, because a 30 min walk just wasn't good enough. There are tennis ball 'throwers' (mine is called a chuckit) that are awesome. Of course, you need to be sure he'll retrieve and come back 100% of the time. If there is a dog park or off leash area near by, maybe you can find a 'friend' for him to play with daily. This running will wear off some of the energy. A GOOD LAB IS A TIRED LAB hehe. Swimming (in the summer obviously) is another good tiring activity- again helped by a ball if taught how to fetch. Are there socialization classes around you where he could go play?
Don't give up on him... he will eventually lose the puppy energy but not for a while yet. As far as the chewing goes... could you chain the crate to something so he can't jump it across the room? and maybe use something against the wall as a bumper so he can't get right up to it? I have never crated my dogs for long periods of time. I let them have a whole room and gate them in with baby gates. This seems much less stressful to them.

Good luck with the training.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old March 7th, 2006, 12:14 PM
sprayeddog sprayeddog is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 101
Quote:
I'd set him up for learning... put a tempting item on the edge of the counter, have matty on leash, and if he tries to grab the item, you'll have control to keep him from it, say OFF or LEAVE IT, when he looks at you and takes his attention away from the counter, praise him like crazy!
Been there, done that.

Matty is very smart though. He always knows when you're 'training' or 'testing' him and he'll perform accordingly, but then at other times when you're trying to relax all of a sudden the 'OFF' or "LEAVE IT" commands don't work ...

Quote:
That's the thing about choosing a puppy. Some breeds require a lot more than others and puppies require a LOT more than most adults. The more time you put in now, the better your dog will be in the end.
Yes in hindsight we shouldn't have chosen a puppy ... but then with an adult dog you don't know what the dog's been through and that could be problems too.

Quote:
If there is a dog park or off leash area near by, maybe you can find a 'friend' for him to play with daily. This running will wear off some of the energy. A GOOD LAB IS A TIRED LAB hehe.
Yeah that is true ... no it isn't easy to find him a 'friend' cos he doesn't get along with other dogs unless they're also puppies.

Quote:
Swimming (in the summer obviously) is another good tiring activity- again helped by a ball if taught how to fetch.
We tried in the tail-end of last summer and Matty was afraid of water ... but we'll try again in the upcoming summer.

Quote:
I let them have a whole room and gate them in with baby gates. This seems much less stressful to them.
That's what we did initially, when we enclosed him in the washroom with a baby gate but he dug a hole in the wall. That's when we got the crate.



SD
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old March 7th, 2006, 11:02 AM
Prin Prin is offline
Senior member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 28,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprayeddog
We'll try to give him more exercise ... it isn't easy as both of us work full-time. As for doggie daycare, we can think about it but it gets expensive.
That's the thing about choosing a puppy. Some breeds require a lot more than others and puppies require a LOT more than most adults. The more time you put in now, the better your dog will be in the end. If your dog is a nuisance, you're not giving him enough of your time. That's part of what having a dog is all about.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Terms of Use

  • All Bulletin Board Posts are for personal/non-commercial use only.
  • Self-promotion and/or promotion in general is prohibited.
  • Debate is healthy but profane and deliberately rude posts will be deleted.
  • Posters not following the rules will be banned at the Admins' discretion.
  • Read the Full Forum Rules

Forum Details

  • Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
    Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
    vBulletin Optimisation by vB Optimise (Reduced on this page: MySQL 0%).
  • All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:55 PM.