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Rescuing an English Bulldog??
Okay... As most of you probably know I have a 10 month old American Pit Bull Terrier... cute as a button. My boyfriend wants to get a second dog before he gets too old where it may disturb his way of life. Of course I am thrilled because there is no such thing as too many dogs to me
However, he ALWAYS wanted an English Bulldog. I know plenty about breeds, and I know a Bulldog would easily fit our lifestyle- in all honesty we would probably out run her... so there are no issues there. First of all I am well aware of their many possible health issues. This turns me off to certain breeds because I get so attached and any sickness will leave me devastated. Aside from this I will not purchase a puppy... I will only adopt (not out of cheapness... for well being of all dogs- I know I don't need to explain to you all). I thought of contacting the English Bulldog rescues but they usually get older bulldogs with health issues. Considering the breed I already have it would need to be a female (1 male terrier rule) and young to grow up with Maximus, this way we can get proper training from the beggining (I feel like this is too much to ask from a rescue). He is great with all dogs, but I do not want to disrupt his way of life with a rescue adult dog. I want to be extra careful because I am not an impulse person when it comes to a life, nor am I one to EVER rehome a dog. I know adult adoption is wonderful and I am totally for it, if I didn't already have Maximus- and his well-being/happiness has to be my first priority. I feel a young female dog is the best bet. I volunteer at animal care and control in NYC however, English Bulldogs rarely come in. When they do it's NEVER puppies. Especially considering all that breeders must go through to deliver these funny little guys. Does anyone have any suggestions or do you think my chances of finding the right Bulldog pup is slim? In my opinion I see pups every week at the shelter I would love to bring home! I will take home any dog in need of a good home- but a decision like this needs to be agreed on by boyfriend AND me. If he ALWAYS wanted an English Bulldog I don't want to say NO WAY to him, after all... Maximus was all my decision, but now I am moving in with him and these types of decisions are not just mine anymore. I would love to hear your input and/or criticisms. Thanks people! :-* (there is no kissing smiley!) Last edited by Angeleyes1437; July 1st, 2005 at 01:59 PM. |
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An EB puppy would be very rare in a shelter or rescue. These dogs seem to be dumped at adulthood when health problems from bad breeding show up.
You may have to go to a breeder if you really want a puppy, and a reputable breeder will be at least 2500 - 3000$ for a puppy. Quote:
If you bring another dog in, you must be prepared and able to separate them 24/7, since there is no guarantee Maximus will continue to like other dogs. If this is not something you feel you could do (and I know I don't want to) then don't get another dog. Of course, EBs can be dog aggressive too, so getting a puppy will not mean it will also mature to be friendly with other dogs. Best scenario - the two dogs will be great buddies, but even then never leave them alone together. Worst scenario - the total separation at maturity. We always hope for the best, but must prepare for the worst! AS for a rescue dog, many rescues have fosters for dogs, and they are trained, crate trained etc by them. They can also be evaluated in a home situation to see if they are good with other dogs, kids etc. A young female will be your best bet, but just remember "Never trust a pit bull not to fight." |
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Oh trust me, I know, lol. I would crate the female or leave her in the bedroom (once she's trained) whenever we are not around. I would never leave any two dogs alone, regardless of breed- to be extra safe. I socialize Maximus extensively... and I do understand that he may not always be great with other dogs- however, I hope my efforts pay off.
I would MUCH rather have them get along- of course, but if I dedicated myself to a dog than I would do whatever I had to in order to keep them both happy and safe. I was thinking a hound would be much better with an APBT- I wanted to avoid another Bully or Terrier breed (althought I love them)all together, just to be safe. I mean, Maximus shows no signs of me needing to- but again, he is still young. |
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Another little fact. I had Maximus neutered early- just before 6 months, to avoid a lot of the male dominance issues and to date he gets pushed around by his 20 pound JRT cousin. I like him being around him, because I praise him for being non-confrontational when his toy get stolen.
However, a cute little Rottie got very dominant and tried to start a fight with his submissive Pharoh Hound cousin, Chelsea (shes a rescue dog and very timid) at the dog park (the owner had no control of him) and he ran over before I could do anything and body slammed the Rottweiler (twice his weight). Didn't bite him, just gave him a serious warning, grabbed him with his mouth at the neck, and held him down with his body and barked at him like "Cut it out, she's my pack member". So I know he isn't in complete puppy mode... yet there's plenty more maturing for him to do. Another thing off topic though... if two other dogs fight in the park, he runs over to break it up. I hate it, because I don't want one to turn around and fight with him, so I call him away or grab him. He never touches them, but he barks at them... you can tell he doesn't like it at all. Is this a good or bad quality? Obviously it's bad because he can get hurt, but does it mean anything otherwise? I never had a dog that did that. |
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Let me tell you from experience, you never know what you are going to get or how things will be until you've got it!!
I have a 4 year old male Pit Bull neutered at 6 months. I now have a female, she just turned 6 months and is going to be spayed next week. Copper is the sweetest, most well behaved dog I have ever had. He's my baby and always will be. I love him more than life itself. Zoe WAS quite a handful. I got her when she was about 15 weeks and she was owned by someone before me. She had no training at all. She is now housetrained and has learned some manners. She is as sweet as pie but has a bit of a nasty streak in her at times. I didn't think I would have to worry about aggressiveness until she was more mature. I was wrong! It has started already(typical dog behaviour, but still risky considering the breed). I don't know what the future holds for us, but I won't give up on her. If permanent separation is a must, then so be it. But just as a warning to you, accidents happen right before your eyes! Good Luck!! And yes more dogs are better than just one!
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Never mind the dogs, beware of the owner!!! |
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lol... I know what you mean. In all honesty I find the female "Pit Bulls" to be more tenacious (not in a bad way, but the males are always so laid back!)than the males. Max's sister (yes, we know his actual sister)came over when they were about 6 months and she wouldn't stop attacking him. He was twice her size, looks very Bully and she has that tight V-shaped face. She was so aggressive to him that we had to put her in his gate while her owner's stayed.
All he did was run away from her!!! He wanted to play! lol. I guess you could imagine that we never invited them over again! |
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LOL I kind of wonder whether or not Zoe is in a constant state of PMS!!! She walks right up to our husky who is 10 times the size of her with her head held high, tail in the air just like she is Miss Priss! Total confidence! ANd here, when we were going to get her(we didn't know if she was male or female) Iwas hoping for a female. Maybe I should have hoped she was a male instead!
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Never mind the dogs, beware of the owner!!! |
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lol, thats funny... they are invinsible little guys... or girls for that fact. Better off with a girl anyway, well with guys already in the house
I miss having a girl dog sometimes... I had a poodle so I would dress her up, brush her all the time, put little bows in her hair. She would love it!!! The girls get moody sometimes though- just don't want to be bothered... I think women are the same way- I know I am!! |
#9
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It's great that you neutered Maximus early and that you socialized him a lot!
However, taking him to dog parks is a big NO-NO, and I really hope you stop doing that. However, no training, socializing or loving is going to deny his aggression, which is already manifesting: Quote:
Getting into just ONE fight could trigger serious aggression problems, so you want to avoid that at all costs. This is the only way to protect not only your dog, but other people's dogs. As you've seen,many people at dog parks "have no control" over their dogs. Quote:
Please stop the dog park! |
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So you think that he should no longer be socialized with a lot of dogs? My sisters Jack Russell has done the same thing if a dog gets rough with Maximus or Chelsea.
I bring him to classes for agility but they can only socialize so much, and he has to get exercise. I bring him when it's least crowded, however- you think the dog park all together is bad? Because of his breed? I know of Boxers or other breeds that have attacked other dogs at parks, if he is always good with other dogs and listens to me well- why should he be couped up in a backyard? Only to go to agility once a week or so? When I bring him to the dog park it's usually dogs he knows, because we've been going since he was 11 weeks (after his last shots). I am very careful with him, and keep him close by- we've never had a problem with him... all the animal behaviorists I speak to think the dog park I go to is the best place for him (as it is USUALLY great owners and dogs) to socialize. I know you always have great advice, but I disagree with the dog parks. I know I need to be careful that another dog with aggression doesn't ruin his disposition with other dogs- however, if I don't bring him at all it will be the same thing. |
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I agree with Lucky on this. If, God forbid, anything should happen it could cost you your dog. Even if Maximus is only breaking up a fight and is only holding another dog down, a nervous dog owner may cry "pit bull!" and really overreact.
Owning a pit bull comes with a lot of responsibility, more so than most dogs, because of the horrible (I am not saying deserved!) reputation that they have. I think that one of the responsibilities is keeping it away from dog parks or any other situation where an accident may happen - or where ignorant people may cause trouble (I am referring to those who think anything that even looks like a pit bull is trouble). I know what Lucky thinks, what do others think? Do you agree with the 'better safe than sorry' line here? |
#12
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He doesn't have to be cooped up anywhere. I leash walk my dog and take her to lots of places, but would never let her loose with a bunch of unleashed dogs whose owners have no control over them. You said there have been fights in this park,and your dog already had an incident. I don't want to lose my dog because other pit bull owners won't stop taking their dogs to off leash parks and putting them in harm's way. Quote:
If you don't believe me, please read the following from PBRC. Perhaps they can explain it better: Dog parks and pit bulls |
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OMG... that was the only time that something like that happened... he didn't bite- he used his body to hold down and protected his cousin. The dog was out of control and I never saw him there before. Otherwise he is perfect, actualy the best behaved dog there. He's gotten barked, growled and snipped at only to back off and walk away.
You think because of his breed I should punish him when he is better than most? I don't want to sound arrogant- because I appreciate your input, however keeping him inside is ridiculous. If he became dog aggressive I would make a decision to only bring him out for walks and exercise him in the backyard, however- he LOVES the dog park and other dogs, and never has a problem, he is very good there and he looks forward to it 3-4 times a week... I won't do that to him unless he's acted a way I feel could be dangerous. |
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If you are such a fan of dog parks, then you made the wrong choice with this breed. Please do the breed and us responsible owners a favor and stop bringing your dog there! This is SERIOUS! This breed is being banned left right and centre, every "incident" they are in adds fuel to the fire, why RISK it? There are MANY ways to excersize your dog without the need for a dog park. They are a new creation, dogs exsisited before them, and will continue to exsist without them.
If the PBRC article didn't convince you, maybe this one will http://www.badrap.org/rescue/dogpark.cfm NO responsible owner of this breed takes their bully to a dog park, none! |
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Oh and one more thing.. Rereading my posts it is possible that my explaination of what Maximus did could be taken the wrong way. Picture this... sometimes my boyfriend will walk over and start "punching me" jokingly and I scream "OW OW OW!! HELP!!" and Maximus will run over and grab his hands while barking at him to stop. How Max told my boyfriend to stop is exactly what he did to the Rottweiler... he didnt show his teeth, his hair didn't stand up, he wasn't being vicious, he was simply saying stop! How does a mother correct her pups when they bite her? Thats not being vicious.
I really feel like this was taken out of context and I know why some people end up not coming back to the board, and that's a shame because I really liked everyone on here. |
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Why would you stop coming here?
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Angeleyes - You sound like you love your dog very much! In doing so, I am sure you want only what is best for him.
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You are right - it is unfair that Maximus can't go to the dog park like other dogs. My present dog is not a pit bull and I don't bring him to the dog park because I have seen people in dog parks who have no control over their dogs. It is my choice to keep away from the dog parks, and instead, we try to arrange "play dates" with other dogs we know so that Toby can socialize and have fun in a controlled environment. That could be one way to ensure that Maximus remains social with other dogs. This is just some friendly advice, given out of concern for you and your dog. :love: |
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I've read these sites before, however many have contradicting literature. At the dog park Maximus NEVER rough plays with other dogs, he doesn't get involved in rough play at all! He doesn't chase other dogs, he basically plays ball and if other dogs get the ball first he just runs back to me.
I can take your advice but how come EVERY animal behavorist I've spoken to tells me what I am doing with him is the best thing? |
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#21
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Nothing that I have read here is malicious - it is all based on the facts you have presented about your dog. AND IT IS ALL GIVEN IN GOOD SPIRIT! Please don't leave. |
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By fight I meant strong rough play where one dog backs down. I think one of my problems here is I didn't think carefully about my wording... other dogs sometimes rough play, Maximus doesn't- but if he sees one dog gets scared and another one acting too rough, it's as if he's trying to tell the other one to ease up.
However, this is rare- because usually there aren't many dogs there. |
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It's good for me and the dog - we both get to socialize with our friends! |
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I have always managed to exercise and care for dogs without dog parks, just as people always did before the advent of these parks. Quote:
You got off easy that time, but maybe next time you (and Maximus) won't. It's true that pit bull bitches can be "hotter" than the males, but males can do way more damage. You said you couldn't get there in time to stop him body slamming the Rottie. What if next time instead of slamming, he grips, or rips this dog's face off? Do you have a break stick and do you know how to use it? If not, you should. Did you even read the PBRC article? Do you think those people are all wrong too? Why would you risk your dog's life (and the lives of dogs of responsible owners like me) for trips to some dog park? Maximus depends on you to take care of him and keep him safe. He has no one else. Why do you think I'm writing all this? Seriously - do you think I hate you and your dog and want him "punished"? Hate my own dog? I love this breed, and fear they ARE going to become totally banned everywhere because of owners who cannot or will not control them. You ask why Maximus barks when other dogs are fighting at the park. If you knew about this breed, you would know he does this because the fighting excites him, and it's only a matter of time until he joins in. I didn't know anything about this breed either when I got mine, but I was sure willing to learn from others who had many years experience with them. I figured maybe they knew more than I did.....can't you see I'm trying to help? Keep taking your pit bull to the dog park, but please don't come here hysterical because there has been some horrendous incident and Maximus has been taken from you. Go look on some dogfighting sites if you want to see what your dog is capable of. I dont' know why you are being defensive and angry. Good luck. |
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I am not being defensive nor angry... I have heard all you are saying. I've known plenty about this breed before I ever had one. I know what he is capable of- in all honesty I don't think you are reading my posts fully and are using portions of my posts. I am getting extremely different input from different places. Before dog parks existed there were regular parks - before that there was just land... try finding that in NYC.
There is NOTHING you are telling me that is news to me, I've known it all. I've also spokent to animal behaviorists and trainers to make sure I was doing the right thing when many websites said not to bring them out there. APBT's should not have a problem just because of their fighting history. Many people successfully bring their Pit Bull breeds around other dogs, and they are great. However, some just can't be around other dogs- so it depends on the dog. Again, I am not being defensive or angry- I am just offended not only by the way you are speaking but some of the things you are saying and also the manner of your posts. I will be sure to take your advice, however, you are picturing a dog park different from the one we go to and when... and truthfully you don't have enough information to fully make total judgement, yet you are. I know your response will be "All I need to know is that he's a pit bull and goes to a dog park", and I expect that... that is fine. Don't expect me to add to the fuel of BSL... no matter how irresponsible you try to make me sound- I can guarantee you I will not. |
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I don't know a single ABPT rescue or experienced owner or trainer that would be ok with a dog park.You are adding to the fuel of BSL by taking your dog off leash at a dog park.One fight will change everyone's mind on the breed.Then they will all say LOOK HE TURNED,they do ust TURN out of nowhere and are vicious.
Visit friends with dogs he likes,go too enclosed places like baseball fields or tennis courts with no other dogs in it.Nobody is saying punish your dog,or keep it at home,they are trying to help you keep your dog safe. Any dog owner taking a ball to a dog park with other dogs around is looking for problems. Quote:
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One thing I thought would fit this thread... I have a friend, who has an extremely aggressive mature female, but she had very poor inconsistent upbringing. She would jump on the tv if an animal appeared- slam into the windows as dogs, cats, and squirels passed. I found this extremely irresponsible but they brought home a puppy!! To my surprise, after a few days they were great! They live together wonderfully ... I still can't believe it- but they are both adults and get along great.
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#28
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I don't like all of the different views on this breed... everyone has different opinions on this. |
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I would love to talk to these behavoirist you mentioned, can you please forward me the names? I would like to educate them to this breed and their traits which you can NOT socialize out of them. Their were bred for hundreds of years to bait Bulls and fight other dogs, they are NOT the breed for dog parks period. Sure many can be wonderful with dogs at certain times, all it takes is for ONE fight to change peoples minds and cause heartache. Remember and respect what this breed is all about.
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Last edited by Spurby; July 1st, 2005 at 01:02 PM. |
#30
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Then I would continue with on leash walks,playing in your own yard,and play dates at friends homes with securely fenced back yards.All kinds of options.Experienced owners and trainers and rescues will not recomend dog parks,often for any breed,and definietly for Pits.They won't start the fight,but they will end it.Then your dog and the breed suffers.They are great dogs,nobody is disagreeing.You are doing more harm than help by letting your dog off leash in the dog park.And ball playing in a dog park is a very bad idea.
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