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  #31  
Old September 2nd, 2008, 09:15 AM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
Unfortunately L4H, sometimes the convenience of the toilet's cold, slippery porcelain under kitty's unstable paws far outweighs the safety to our beloved pets of terra firma (in this case..litter) under kitty's feet while they are performing their absolutions.
In my house the toilet seat stays down. I have had to fish a couple of poor unfortunates out of the toilet bowl and thank my God that I was home when it happened. I have also witnessed most, if not all, of the kittens/cats who inhabit my home slip at one time or another on the porcelain of the toilet or tub. I opt for safeness.
Our toilet seats stay down too, 14+. I am not agreeing with toilet training either, I would NEVER allow my kitties on the toilet, I have seen what wet paws does on porcelain and it is not pretty. However, you can't control people, I just want people to be aware that a cat can't get a grip on porcelain and some people need to see for themselves in order to believe.
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Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
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  #32  
Old September 2nd, 2008, 12:12 PM
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globalgourmand globalgourmand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
However, you can't control people, I just want people to be aware that a cat can't get a grip on porcelain and some people need to see for themselves in order to believe.
Its true, you can't control people and a cat can't grip porcelain. I respect your commitment to safety in your homes. I can see that Love4himies' and 14+kitties' cats are all very lucky and I am confident they are healthy.

Beyond that, I'm having a hard time finding a way to respond without seeming disrespectful where I have no intent to do so. I'm going to try but please know I'm not trying to be rude...

I have seen a few cats and a kitten slip into the toilet-- sometimes startled, sometimes unpanicked, but then promptly jump or crawl out. I've also seen a few cats with their whole upperbodies curiously looking around the toilet bowl which is not something I'd necessarily allow, but which says something about the different ways cats react at the toilet. I have not seen a cat get stuck after slipping in or get hurt jumping out-- not yet, though I assume it could happen and I believe 14+kitties' cautionary report. I do not know for sure how my cat would react if he slipped but I can take a guess judging from the way he walks around my wet bathtub after I've showered. He's fully grown, able-bodied, and calm around water. My cat can walk around the toilet seat and jump out of the bathtub with wet paws. He does amazing acrobatic feats while playing with a piece of string. I don't have the heart to force him into the toilet bowl to prove a point, but I have a good idea of what would happen if he were to fall in. The things I've read, seen, and observed lead me to believe that if my cat slips into the toilet, he might be startled, but he's just going jump out unharmed.

I already feel I've said too much. Please, I really don't want to instigate anything but I do want to share my view.

I'm sorry to make anyone feel sad or angry when I write this (and I realize its no consolation) but, when it comes to my cat getting stuck or hurt in a toilet bowl, I will (perhaps unfortunately) have to see it for myself to believe it. Your feelings are based on those things that you've seen and mine are based on what I've seen.

Again, others should share their own experiences and feelings.

I hope we can agree to disagree here.
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  #33  
Old September 2nd, 2008, 12:22 PM
Jim Hall Jim Hall is offline
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lol i still cant figure out what the problem with a litter box is

i sugggest going to voluteer at a kitty rescue org after cleaning out 20 or so 1 wouldnt seem tha bad
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  #34  
Old September 2nd, 2008, 12:34 PM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
Our toilet seats stay down too, 14+. I am not agreeing with toilet training either, I would NEVER allow my kitties on the toilet, I have seen what wet paws does on porcelain and it is not pretty. However, you can't control people, I just want people to be aware that a cat can't get a grip on porcelain and some people need to see for themselves in order to believe.

I did not mean that they should stick their kitties in the toilet to "see for themselves", but to wet their little paws and watch them in the bathtub or sink to see that they can't grip.
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Cat maid to:

Jasper, male Ragdoll ?? (approx 10 yrs)
Rose semi feral, a cpietra rescue, female tabby (approx 7 yrs)

Sweet Pea RIP (2004?-2014)
Puddles RIP (1996-2014)
Snowball RIP (1991-2005)

In a cat's eye, all things belong to cats.-English Proverb

“While we are free to choose our actions, we are not free to choose the consequences of our actions.” Stephen R. Covey
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  #35  
Old September 2nd, 2008, 01:01 PM
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sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by globalgourmand View Post
This is the only thing of these three responses that actually hurts/offends me.
I truly appologize for the rather snide comment. To be honest, I actually thought you were someone coming here to shill for Litter Qwitter (since it was your first and only post at the time). I see that's not the case, and while I don't have time right now to read through all the rest of the posts, it's clear that you do love Crusher (who's very handsome, by the way!) and are only interested in his wellbeing. Good luck with whatever you decide.
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  #36  
Old September 2nd, 2008, 01:33 PM
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globalgourmand globalgourmand is offline
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How kind, sugarcatmom. The apology and compliments are warmly accepted! If you decide to read on you may find there are several of my opinions which you disagree with but I do him and keep his wellbeing in mind, and I'm happy that you've noticed.

Tanya
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  #37  
Old September 2nd, 2008, 05:29 PM
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sugarcatmom sugarcatmom is offline
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Couple things I'd like to comment on if I may (finally read everything - phew!). One is about the Feline Pine: I use pine pellets for my cat as well (mixed with newspaper pellets for a softer texture) and while I realize the manufacturers of these products say you can just stir the urine soaked sawdust into the rest of the litter, I strongly disagree with that practice. Perhaps that's part of the issue here, because yes, your cat is walking in his own urine in that case. A much better technique, and one that also allows you to monitor the amount and frequency of urination, is to completely scoop out those puffy pee piles daily. I use a small shovel thingy, no slots in it, and get every last shred of exploded pellet. My litter boxes are so impeccably clean, you can almost eat out of them ! They have to be, they're in a main part of my house for all to see and smell. So ya, I recommend you try the full scoopage method in the meantime. You don't want your cat walking in urine, and he doesn't want that either.

You've addressed all the other issues quite thoroughly so I won't dwell on them, but there is one other potential problem with toilet training (or even just flushing cat feces down the toilet). Cats are frequently infected with a parasite called Toxoplasma gondii, which is shed in their poop (it's the reason they say pregnant women shouldn't clean the litter box). This parasite enters the waterways and oceans and has been implicated in the deaths of sea otters in coastal areas. To quote this article:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...13/petscol.DTL
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...27/petscol.DTL

Quote:
While dog feces can be safely disposed of in the toilet, used cat litter should never be flushed. Modern waste treatment doesn't kill a pesky organism known as toxoplasma gondii. When water containing this parasite enters the ocean, it sickens and kills sea otter populations. Toxoplasma also causes disease in humans, especially the immune-compromised and pregnant women.
Quote:
For used cat litter, the situation is less clear. Some litters are produced specifically to be flushable, and for cats who don't carry the parasite Toxoplasma gondii, that's a good solution. But around half of all cats do, and their feces should not be flushed. Even those indoor cats who were infected in the distant past can, under some circumstances, still shed cysts in their feces, so before you decide your cat is one of those who don't, have your veterinarian run a T. gondii titer test on your cat. If the test is negative, and your cat has no opportunity to eat soil, prey or any form of raw meat, then you're probably safe to put flushable cat litter down the toilet.
And my last comment (I promise) is change your cat's food! I know others have mentioned that as well, but I just want to reiterate it. Science Diet is some of the worst pet food on the market. You wouldn't have guessed that by how much it costs, and that's because Hill's has done one helluva marketing job on vets in North America. If you don't want to feed raw (and that can be a pretty big leap to make right away), find a good quality canned food. More info on that here: http://www.catinfo.org/
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  #38  
Old September 3rd, 2008, 03:28 PM
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globalgourmand globalgourmand is offline
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I oughtta first thank JennieV for the stairs suggestion. Its a great idea if or when that time might come.

sugarcatmom, the T.gondii information is very concerning. I will definitely talk to my vet about this and get him tested soon. I will also find out what happens to our black and brown waste water. I suppose if someone had a septic system, this wouldn't be a concern. But I know that can't possibly be the case for our apartment building so I'm going to find out.

And everyone can rest assured that I will change Crusher's food promptly. I'm embarassed that I never even looked at the ingredients when I bought the bag. I do it with my food and I've done it with my boyfriend's dog food and yet I never did it with my cat's first bag of food!? I'm nuts. I know first hand how important good quality nutrition is and I'm saddened when I think of how much greed is dictating what goes in human and animal food. Thanks for the link!

Also, I put Crusher in a bathtub of 4 inches of water. He stood there awkwardly for several seconds, looked at me like I was crazy, then hopped out and shook his feet a little. He sniffed around the bathroom some more, hopping on the the toilet seat (lid closed) and off. He seemed to be managing quite well and though I don't doubt he had reduced traction, it wasn't noticeable.
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