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  #181  
Old October 2nd, 2010, 11:37 PM
driver8 driver8 is offline
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I don't feel it should be the basic expectation that every average pet owner does tons of research into a subject.

You do that when you have a passion for something.

Pet owners who develop a passion for the understanding of issues will research into breeding and spay/neuter type issues. many will not.

If it is a passion of yours as an individual, great. Other people have other interests and passions that drive them. That's okay too, because in thios world we all have a niche, a place where we can fit ourselves.

Someone who has an interest that is different from yours may be the expert helping you fix your car, take care of your child, sort out your taxes, obtain a mortage. Those things are your responsibilities too, but we all still have experts to help us along. Would you like to be greeted with exasperation at the bank when you ask a question that a banker thinks ought to be basic, but you had no idea??
  #182  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 06:52 AM
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Knowledge is power.

Like cassie stated, if we can take responsibility for the mechanics of our car, then we probably research anything we don't know, same as banking, legal issues, etc. If I repair my wheel and it falls off on the highway, then we are responsible, if a mechanic does it, he is responsible. An owner takes responsibility for their pets and therefore should be knowledgeable before they start out. If they want further expert info, you contact your Vet

As for ignorance about pet food, yes it is huge, absolutely huge, but it is coming out slowly in the news. For the majority of people, we think the "experts" are the AAFCO, and they are monitoring the quality.
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  #183  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 09:00 AM
BenMax BenMax is offline
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[QUOTE=Love4himies;956337]Puddles too was from a byb.QUOTE]

Don't feel bad L4H - more than 80+% of all animals from rescues/shelters are from ByB's and/or puppymills (petstores). I am being very reasonable and overly generous with my percentage. What people also miss is that these mixed breeds are not bred by reputable breeders at all. They are just people putting one and two together to see what they get. Sorry off topic.
  #184  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
Knowledge is power.

Like cassie stated, if we can take responsibility for the mechanics of our car, then we probably research anything we don't know, same as banking, legal issues, etc. If I repair my wheel and it falls off on the highway, then we are responsible, if a mechanic does it, he is responsible. An owner takes responsibility for their pets and therefore should be knowledgeable before they start out. If they want further expert info, you contact your Vet

But what do they research? They aren't necessarily asking the right questions (see my comments below) and they wouldn't be coming here if they had all the answers. No one comes into this place with all the answers. And none of the members have all the answers It's too much to expect of newcomers.

As for ignorance about pet food, yes it is huge, absolutely huge, but it is coming out slowly in the news. For the majority of people, we think the "experts" are the AAFCO, and they are monitoring the quality.
My point exactly! I would venture that most people have no clue what to even research. Johnnie wants a puppy, so they do a web search and they come up with thousands of links all sounding like they are managed by 'the experts'. If you don't know the questions to ask you can't refine the search. If you can't refine the search, you can't ask the right questions. I would also venture a guess that most people see a link to the BB and discount that link as a source of information, simply because they are still fixated on the fact that 'Johnnie wants a puppy'.

So we can't expect the venturesome newbies that do come in to be all-knowing, or even somewhat aware. And they will ask the same newbie questions. But if we chase them away because we're tired of answering those questions, no one benefits.
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  #185  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 10:01 AM
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I was wondering, how about adding a forum just for first time pet owners basic questions? It would be simpler for newbies to find answers without having to peruse the entire board or use the search function (for those that are new to how forums operate in general). Members who want to help can give advice there or provide links to pertinent articles. And for members who don't like to repeat themselves, they can avoid the forum altogether .
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  #186  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 10:04 AM
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I like that idea, LP!
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  #187  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 10:10 AM
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I like that idea too.

I don't know if the version that's installed here does it, but I know that other forums that run on vBulletin have had a feature where you can "ignore" certain forums - the forum just doesn't show up in your search when you click new posts. But if you click on it on the main forum page you can still read it. If you had a "newbie questions" type forum, people who get frustrated by the repetition and ignorance can just choose to to read it.
  #188  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 10:29 AM
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Sorry but I don't think adding a new forum will help with anything. If those people can't research on the web , and are not trying to find their answers here in older threads , you think they will see this new forum for newbies and search in it ? I highly doubt it.

I don't know why we should change the board , I think it will only confuse the newbies even more.

I guess I expect too much out of people , people are lazy ! I totally agree with cassiek , infos are all over , there's no excuses !

I started to look into buying my first house in 2002. I didn't have a computer back then , but I did have one at work. I would spend all my lunch hours on the computer , looking for a house , and also , researching breeds because I wanted a dog as soon as I got the house. I was also researching dogs up for adoption , ended up on petfinder and rescues websites , read all about spay / neuter , pet overpopulation , BYB , puppy mills , on those websites. And that was in 2002 !!! It's now 2010 , for me , if you're a dog owner , and don't know about these things , you clearly bought a dog without doing any kind of research first, and to me , there's no excuse for that. If I could do it in 2002 , people should know better in 2010 , as there are so much more infos out there now.
  #189  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
I don't think someone who is looking for breeding info will find what they are looking for here.

Yep, yep they will. We do have breeders, or people who used to breed, here now. They have and will answer breeding questions.
You know this actually may be the best solution to the issue..If someone creates a thread asking breeding advice, my honest suggestion is..." unless you have experience breeding or have ANY advice to give on breeding". Just DON'T post at all..The OP isn't asking for spay/neuter advice so members that don't have the info they want...We just need to leave the thread alone.
  #190  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 11:16 AM
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(I'm smiling cuz I know you're rolling your eyes at me ) Ok, but....

...while researching breeds, spay/neuter, byb/puppymills, etc., did you research nutrition ie home cooking, kibble, raw feeding? Training methods? Behavioral problems? Every single disease that a pet might suffer from? Allergies? Medication? Every thing that could possibly go wrong? You see, many people normally look for info when things go wrong...everything else they take for granted . I never researched any of the above because we had dogs in the past and we never encountered problems. And only 5 short years ago, I didn't even have the internet, I trusted my old vet for info. And what did he tell me? Vet food was best, yearly vaccinations were crucial, and that I should wait until our puppy was at the very least 2 years old before having him neutered. I trusted the vet to give me the right info on certain behavioral issues we were having with our pup...he told me to look up trainers in the yellow pages . So how does someone like me, at the time, even know that there was other information out there if I only looked to who I trusted, my old vet?

What I'm trying to get at is, not everyone knows what questions to even ask (like Hazel mentioned) until something goes wrong. And even when one does have the right questions, look at all the misleading info they can receive. We've all experienced that. Sometimes it's much easier and less frustrating (unless greeted with disdain) to just ask other "real" people about their ideas, opinions, advice, and experiences...the kind of support that a pet forum such as this one can provide.
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  #191  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 12:02 PM
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The food questions , I learned about that in 1995 while taking my cats to an holistic vet in Ville Lasalle. he taught me about ingredients and how to read them.

and yes , I also did read about training and other stuff while I was searching to adopt. What can I say , I know that adopting an animal is a 12-15 years commitment and I wanted to be as ready as I could.
  #192  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 12:12 PM
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What would be the point then of a pet forum if uninformed/ignorant people (including myself cuz I still don't know everything there is to know about animals) can't come here to ask questions without fear of being judged ?
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  #193  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:01 PM
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What would be the point then of a pet forum if uninformed/ignorant people (including myself cuz I still don't know everything there is to know about animals) can't come here to ask questions without fear of being judged ?
that's a little overboard don't you think,,i can't think of one thread asking about nutrition,health advice,,training,,etc that has caused an uproar or been closed...The threads where a kerfuffle happen is (gonna put myself out on a ledge here) atleast 99% of the time someone asking advice on either breeding their pet or having issues with the delivery of the puppies/kittens. Hence my suggestion that ONLY the people with breeding/delivery post in those threads. Those that are pro spay/neuter stay clear of them completely.
  #194  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:06 PM
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What would be the point then of a pet forum if uninformed/ignorant people (including myself cuz I still don't know everything there is to know about animals) can't come here to ask questions without fear of being judged ?
Then wouldn't that make it, as someone mentioned earlier on this thread, more like an exclusive club than a pet forum? Sometimes I feel it is getting more and more like that already.

This forum is, as someone else on here said, a "goldmine" of pet related information. Contributions have come from many wonderful members through the years.

This is a large forum with new people signing up every day, yet the number of active members seems to continue to shrink, or am I imagining this?
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  #195  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by luckypenny View Post
What would be the point then of a pet forum if uninformed/ignorant people (including myself cuz I still don't know everything there is to know about animals) can't come here to ask questions without fear of being judged ?
We're talking about neutering and spaying here . Not about people asking about dog/cat cancers etc....

Even back in 1992 , when I got my first appartement , when I adopted my first cat Missy , as soon as she was old enough , I got her spayed. And after a few months , I got Dweezil , and he also got neutered when he was old enough.

it's basic animal 101 !
  #196  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:18 PM
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little off topic, but its been bugging me.

lots'a talk about "trolls" doing what they intend to.
i havent seen any. i have been here for a little over half a year, and i have not noticed any. someone pm me a thread or post it on here to where there were trolls?
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  #197  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:22 PM
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We're talking about neutering and spaying here . Not about people asking about dog/cat cancers etc....

Even back in 1992 , when I got my first appartement , when I adopted my first cat Missy , as soon as she was old enough , I got her spayed. And after a few months , I got Dweezil , and he also got neutered when he was old enough.

it's basic animal 101 !
that was in your case. as many of you already know, different people from all over the world come on this site. and with different places there are different cultures, beliefs, etc..etc.. so acceptance and understanding of information is limited.

you were one of the lucky people who had one thing lead to another in terms of information about the animals.

subtract one of the critical sources of your information back then, would you still have been as educated as you say you were?
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  #198  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:25 PM
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little off topic, but its been bugging me.

lots'a talk about "trolls" doing what they intend to.
i havent seen any. i have been here for a little over half a year, and i have not noticed any. someone pm me a thread or post it on here to where there were trolls?
Don't apologize for going off topic. This thread has gone off topic a few times already, but I am hoping the results will be a better forum for everybody. As for the trolls, I haven't seen any trolls recently that I can think of either. If I find anything I will definitely PM you the link.

Good to see you posting again.
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  #199  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:30 PM
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a lot of people don't have their pets 'fixed' for many reasons such as breeding or they dont have enough money its kinda like some parents choose not to get their kids braces because its to expensive or they think they dont need to. I have also noticed alot of people of won't have their pet's 'fixed' i have 4 animals 1 cat and 3 dogs the cat and older dog is fixed but the other 2 dogs are not because we want to breed one of them so we're getting one fixed and breeding the other


(Check out my forum 'swollen eye?' in the cat health section)
  #200  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:40 PM
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you were one of the lucky people who had one thing lead to another in terms of information about the animals.
Lucky ? I don't call looking up infos and being prepared "lucky".
  #201  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ♥Animal lover♥ View Post
a lot of people don't have their pets 'fixed' for many reasons such as breeding or they dont have enough money its kinda like some parents choose not to get their kids braces because its to expensive or they think they dont need to. I have also noticed alot of people of won't have their pet's 'fixed' i have 4 animals 1 cat and 3 dogs the cat and older dog is fixed but the other 2 dogs are not because we want to breed one of them so we're getting one fixed and breeding the other
Ok folks, great practice material. Who wants to be first ?
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  #202  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:46 PM
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so we're getting one fixed and breeding the other

I'm out of words !
  #203  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:49 PM
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I'm out of words !
Animal lover , please read this : http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72866
  #204  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 01:51 PM
aslan aslan is offline
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Ok folks, great practice material. Who wants to be first ?
this is a perfect example of what i was talking about,,,anyone who isn't a ethical breeder,,just don't respond,,,

http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72866
  #205  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 02:00 PM
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Animal lover , please read this : http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=72866
Frenchy, we are sure of the dog we are breeding. The dog we are breeding is only going to have one batch of puppies she has excellent vet care as will her puppies we will most likely be selling but one of the puppies when we do sell them we are going to interveiw the person intrested in buying to make sure they are fit to take care of a dog. so the puppies and parents will be very well taken care of
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Old October 3rd, 2010, 02:05 PM
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I don't think someone who is looking for breeding info will find what they are looking for here.

Yep, yep they will. We do have breeders, or people who used to breed, are now. They have and will answer breeding questions.
Sorry 14+ but I don't agree with you here... I really don't think someone who is looking for information of this nature will find what they are looking for. Most of us on here have very, very limited knowledge in this area.

I know we have a few people capable of offering advice in this area, but I don't normally see them appear when threads of this nature are started

Those people with advice, it would be greatly appreciated if they would speak up when a thread is started about breeding. They could offer the OP advice, therefore the OP gets the information they are looking for.
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  #207  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 02:13 PM
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the whole point Cassiek is that the people without the info don't need to post in those threads,,then it is up to the ones who can provide the information..It shouldn't be a concern of anyone elses. If someone comes here asking for information on breeding and the actual members with the information don't choose to post there is nothing we can do about it. We can however stop any form of bad feelings occuring with members and new members by just not posting anything if we can't give them the actual information they are seeking. Someone comes in and asks information about how to breed,when to breed,,don't respond with,,spay/neuter your pets,,nothing,,zip,nada..if they come in with a possible problem occurring durring delivery,,only thing i would post would be to go to the vet.
  #208  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 02:19 PM
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I don't feel it should be the basic expectation that every average pet owner does tons of research into a subject.

Why not? It's a commitment you are making for the next 15-20 years. You are responsible for another living, breathing thing... why should it be any different then when you decide to have a baby? Hopefully, you prepare for a baby by reading books, maybe attending parenting classes, read up about which toys, cribs, formula etc. is the best

You do that when you have a passion for something. I would hope that at the very least if you have a pet, you are passionate about it. Why else would you want to have a pet?

Pet owners who develop a passion for the understanding of issues will research into breeding and spay/neuter type issues. many will not.

If it is a passion of yours as an individual, great. Other people have other interests and passions that drive them. That's okay too, because in thios world we all have a niche, a place where we can fit ourselves.

Someone who has an interest that is different from yours may be the expert helping you fix your car, take care of your child, sort out your taxes, obtain a mortage. Those things are your responsibilities too, but we all still have experts to help us along. Would you like to be greeted with exasperation at the bank when you ask a question that a banker thinks ought to be basic, but you had no idea??
I'm not arguing that everyone who considers getting a pet research every damn possible disease, food, etc. out there. I thoroughly enjoy learning anything and everything about dogs that I can, so I do. I understand that to most people they don't care to know every little detail about their pet. However, I don't think asking people to look into spaying/neutering is asking that much. I argue that alot of information about all things pets (i.e. what kind of food is best etc.) may not be that easy to find or there is alot of misinformation out there (i.e. your vet recommends vet food and you don't know any better). Still, I think that in regards to spaying/neutering... there is tons of information out there and I think to say you had no idea about it is a bull**** excuse. Most of the people I talk to through the HS on the phone are aware of the importance of spaying/neutering but choose not to... for whatever reason. And for those that say they can't afford it... I agree 110% the cost of spaying/neutering is very expensive and surely deters people from having it done... still if you can't afford it, how will you ever afford dog food over the dog's life, vet care, etc?

Regardless, we can sit and debate this back and forth all we want. The point is, there always will be people who are misinformed or uniformed about any topic, and if we can help educate them all the better.

Let's put this thread to rest already.
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  #209  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 02:23 PM
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the whole point Cassiek is that the people without the info don't need to post in those threads,,then it is up to the ones who can provide the information..It shouldn't be a concern of anyone elses. If someone comes here asking for information on breeding and the actual members with the information don't choose to post there is nothing we can do about it. We can however stop any form of bad feelings occuring with members and new members by just not posting anything if we can't give them the actual information they are seeking. Someone comes in and asks information about how to breed,when to breed,,don't respond with,,spay/neuter your pets,,nothing,,zip,nada..if they come in with a possible problem occurring durring delivery,,only thing i would post would be to go to the vet.
I agree with you 110% Aslan. Which is why I don't usually post anything in threads of this nature I have no information to offer. I usually can respond to posts of any nature with alot of tact and politeness.

We can't do anything about it, but it sure would be great for those that have information if they could help these users out... after all we are here to help educate, and who better but those that have knowledge in this area to reply? I can't force those to reply, but I can just ask
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  #210  
Old October 3rd, 2010, 02:24 PM
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Love4himies Love4himies is offline
Rescue is my fav. breed
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchy View Post
Sorry but I don't think adding a new forum will help with anything. If those people can't research on the web , and are not trying to find their answers here in older threads , you think they will see this new forum for newbies and search in it ? I highly doubt it.

I don't know why we should change the board , I think it will only confuse the newbies even more.

I guess I expect too much out of people , people are lazy ! I totally agree with cassiek , infos are all over , there's no excuses !

I started to look into buying my first house in 2002. I didn't have a computer back then , but I did have one at work. I would spend all my lunch hours on the computer , looking for a house , and also , researching breeds because I wanted a dog as soon as I got the house. I was also researching dogs up for adoption , ended up on petfinder and rescues websites , read all about spay / neuter , pet overpopulation , BYB , puppy mills , on those websites. And that was in 2002 !!! It's now 2010 , for me , if you're a dog owner , and don't know about these things , you clearly bought a dog without doing any kind of research first, and to me , there's no excuse for that. If I could do it in 2002 , people should know better in 2010 , as there are so much more infos out there now.
I agree, I am the same way. There is no excuse anymore, you can find out anything on the internet.
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