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  #121  
Old October 1st, 2010, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post
But since only indicate it's a "theme" and then we get pissed at new posters when they offer alternate lines of discussion, it doesn't seem fair. Remove the ambiuity, and you remove any possibility of hurt feelings or nasty retaliation. You never see an angry response of "hey, you closed my thread!" after we close a medical emerg thread.
You also do not see one single one of those people who's threads have been closed down so quickly EVER come back. I know 'cause I have checked. They probably moved on to another forum who told them what they wanted to hear. There's lots of them out there.
I don't agree with members telling people what to give their pets either when it comes to harmful things like aspirin. I cringe when that happens. In those cases there should be a *I am not a vet. Please check with your own vet before administering any medication.* at the end of any post where we have said to try this on Muffy's toes or do this to Biffy.
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We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
  #122  
Old October 1st, 2010, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
You also do not see one single one of those people who's threads have been closed down so quickly EVER come back. I know 'cause I have checked. They probably moved on to another forum who told them what they wanted to hear. There's lots of them out there.
I don't agree with members telling people what to give their pets either when it comes to harmful things like aspirin. I cringe when that happens. In those cases there should be a *I am not a vet. Please check with your own vet before administering any medication.* at the end of any post where we have said to try this on Muffy's toes or do this to Biffy.
Yeah, info given out on here would be a LOT different if you were legally liable for the advice you gave...
  #123  
Old October 1st, 2010, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
You also do not see one single one of those people who's threads have been closed down so quickly EVER come back. I know 'cause I have checked. They probably moved on to another forum who told them what they wanted to hear. :
I probably wouldn't have come back either I wonder if my first post here had been "hey, so I got my new puppy from some lady in my neighbourhood whose dogs had puppies"...if my welcome would have been as warm? I said "I rescued her", which I thought I had, in my mind...I didn't even know what a byb was at the time...if folks here hadn't welcomed me warmly (as they did) but rather berated me for contributing to an unethical, inhumane industry, not to mention the pet overpopulation problem, I may not have stuck around long enough to learn everything I have since then.
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  #124  
Old October 1st, 2010, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
I don't believe in the bullcrap that everybody can co-exist when the subject is a very passionate one, sorry, but I don't. To me if there were breeders on this forum posting about their recent litter they have had and another member has just had to refuse a weekend away with the girls because she had to take care/transport fosters then it is like throwing $hit in the face of this rescuer. Or the rescuer could only take 1 cat or dog from a high kill shelter knowing there are 10 left behind to die. This a very passionate subject and you will get explosions. We are HUMAN, not robots (and add some PMSing in the equation ).

Just my
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMax View Post
AMEN L4h...Amen! Thank you for the reminder and maybe some understanding on why things may go sideways.
I second the amen L4H

I know some people here that are not involve with rescues because they can't , but they do understand what rescuers are going through. They give great support , and many times , will also help however they can , even if it's just understanding and support.

unfortunately , there always people that would need do walk in one rescuer's shoes for a couple weeks , to even begin to understand why we think the way we think.
  #125  
Old October 1st, 2010, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post
I probably wouldn't have come back either I wonder if my first post here had been "hey, so I got my new puppy from some lady in my neighbourhood whose dogs had puppies"...if my welcome would have been as warm? I said "I rescued her", which I thought I had, in my mind...I didn't even know what a byb was at the time...if folks here hadn't welcomed me warmly (as they did) but rather berated me for contributing to an unethical, inhumane industry, not to mention the pet overpopulation problem, I may not have stuck around long enough to learn everything I have since then.
I think you missed what I was trying to say again. You mentioned the medical emergency questions threads that were closed down. Those were the ones I was referring to. Not any other thread. I have gone into a few of those threads and offered advise about getting the pet to their vet and stated reasons why and did it nicely only to go back a few minutes later and find the thread closed. These have been threads that would not have "turned". That's all I'm saying.
For the most part I don't see what some people are referring to. I don't feel we tell all people who ask questions about their sick pup/kitty that they got from a byb or mill or pet store that they are the worse people in the world. I feel we try to educate. I suppose we do at times come across strong handed. But - go to any other forum and ask the same question and see the answers you get. I can almost guarantee they will be far worse than what we post. Pets is by far the most welcoming forum I have ever found.
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We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
  #126  
Old October 1st, 2010, 01:15 PM
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"Most people on this forum are against declawing cats, and are against banning specific dog breeds. Most people on this forum are VERY pro spay/neuter, and are against backyard breeding. Most people on this board will beg, borrow and max out their credit cards to see a veterinarian when their pets are ill.

That said, all posts are to be responded to in a polite manner. Please EDUCATE or IGNORE posters that you don't agree with. Respond with kindness or do not respond at all. Rudeness from newer or older members will not be tolerated and may result in the member being removed without warning."


Going back to the posting rules and policies, in the second paragraph above it clearly states that "rudeness from newer or older members will not be tolerated ............."

My experience on this board has led me to get the impression that rudeness from older members is tolerated on this board (sorry Marko, but I feel the need to say this).

I have been a member here for 1 1/2 years and I have lost track of the times I have been left with a very bad taste in my mouth, to the point where I have often considered leaving this forum, after watching yet another thread disintegrate because some older members have ganged up on yet another newcomer or, in some cases, someone who is not so new. I am not saying that rude comments can never be uttered. Nobody is perfect. I am referring to the threads where a member is ganged up on, and people behave in a way that reminds me of "grade school bullies." That kind of behaviour does not command any respect, IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Love4himies View Post
And then you get into senior members attacking other senior members and to me that is something to be ashamed of. That really makes us look like we are , then things get off topic.
I totally agree, but why is it considered okay to gang up on and attack junior members or newcomers? Does attacking junior members or newcomers make people look any less ?
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  #127  
Old October 1st, 2010, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
I think you missed what I was trying to say again. You mentioned the medical emergency questions threads that were closed down. Those were the ones I was referring to.

You're right...I DID misunderstand *SPLAT* (that was me throwing a tomato at myself )

I feel we try to educate. I suppose we do at times come across strong handed. But - go to any other forum and ask the same question and see the answers you get. I can almost guarantee they will be far worse than what we post. Pets is by far the most welcoming forum I have ever found.
And I'm willing to say that yes, most of the time we do try to educate...but yeah, it's the strong-handedness that I find so off-putting. Maybe I'm too nice I guess I just personally find that a more diplomatic approach works better for me.
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Audrey - torbie - sweet as pie (11 months)
Patrick - blue - a little turd (but we like him anyways) (6 months)
__________
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  #128  
Old October 1st, 2010, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post
You're right...I DID misunderstand *SPLAT* (that was me throwing a tomato at myself )

I hope you like tomatoes.

And I'm willing to say that yes, most of the time we do try to educate...but yeah, it's the strong-handedness that I find so off-putting. Maybe I'm too nice I guess I just personally find that a more diplomatic approach works better for me.
So I will try to do the best I can to "educate with a kinder hand".

Truly, my feeling about forums is that a lot of people come on to ask a question, get their answer (whether they like it or not) and don't come back. They got what they wanted so why stick around. Maybe I'm way off the mark. It's been known to happen once or twice. There are a lot of people out there that are simply not the "forum" kind of people.
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
  #129  
Old October 1st, 2010, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikischo View Post


I totally agree, but why is it considered okay to gang up on and attack junior members or newcomers? Does attacking junior members or newcomers make people look any less ?
Didn't say that.

My point being that normally takes the thread off topic and then the thread goes and the OP is long gone.
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  #130  
Old October 1st, 2010, 01:49 PM
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i've tried researching stuff with my first cat before i even knew of this site.
maybe i didnt research correctly, but i didnt get too much information that would "open my eyes" and make me think as much as when i got on here.

its much different to read something on google then to come on here and get people to respond with first hand experience.

i didnt know that spaying/neutering was better for the overall health of the animal. i didnt like the idea when i first heard of it, i still dont like it, because im taking something valuable away from the animal. but its the lesser of two evils to spay/neuter then to leave them breed and have many of them live a hard life.

theres an ocean of information out there, but sometimes you dont exactly know where to "swim" to find the information you want. sometimes, you dont know where to look exactly. and sometimes (i know because its happened to me) you have questions that are too specific to be researched.

thats why this site (in my eyes) is a goldmine.
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  #131  
Old October 1st, 2010, 03:02 PM
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So let’s ask this question. If a newbie is joining should they not take the time to look through the site to see if their question has been asked/answered before? In reality if we have answered the same question 5 or 6 times in a week I think anyone is bound to get a little off kilter. Now follow my skewed thinking here. You may say “What if they need a fast answer to the question they are asking?” Then, in reality, does that not qualify as an emergency and they should be contacting their vet? Why are they on the computer asking questions on a pet forum where we can not "legally", as already pointed out, answer medical questions?
All I am saying is if I am joining a forum where I hope to stick around and meet wonderful people I would take the time to suss out the feel of the forum before joining.
We talk about all the times we greet newbies with “hostility”. What about all of the times we welcome people to the forum and beg them to post pictures? How many never ever come back after posting once of twice? I bet you will find the answer a little shocking. We weren’t “mean” to them. They just didn’t bother coming back.
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
  #132  
Old October 1st, 2010, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
So let’s ask this question. If a newbie is joining should they not take the time to look through the site to see if their question has been asked/answered before?
If they're new to forums, they likely don't know how to look around. I didn't when I first joined up. I joined to address a specific problem that came up in an unrelated browser search...and my first post turned out to be in a thread a year or more old. Sound familiar? Newbie mistake.

But as far as searching for an answer on the site before joining? Except for that first hit off a search, the only other thing I knew how to access at that time were the day's posts. Wouldn't have gotten me very far if I'd come in with a question.
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  #133  
Old October 1st, 2010, 03:19 PM
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i usually try and look if im gonna ask an already answered question.

if its not there, i ask.

but if you already answered a question multiple times, your not obliged to do it another time. theres many members here, its bound to get answered.

worst case scenario, you link them to a thread where it was answered.

some people join and lurk, some just join and then leave for no reason, and thats fine its their choice. who cares.

some people join, ask a question, and get chewed up and spit out.
its best to just not write anything at all if you want to hit the OP or the newbie, or w.e.

the important thing is the animals, if your mad, dont be. be good, do it for the animals' wellbeing. if your frusterated, dont be. be calm for the animals' wellbeing.

i've said it before, you guys are the abasadors for the animal, wether you acknowledge it or not. with great power comes great responsiblitiy. knowledge is everything. maybe someone might take their knowledge for granted and forget the influence they have on a fellow member, and with a few subtle words cause them to leave.

one thing that unites us all is the love for the animals, we all joined here for the same reason, to learn and help the animals. its the reason i even came back (again).

so if someone boils your blood just dont post a reply to them.
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  #134  
Old October 1st, 2010, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
If they're new to forums, they likely don't know how to look around. I didn't when I first joined up. I joined to address a specific problem that came up in an unrelated browser search...and my first post turned out to be in a thread a year or more old. Sound familiar? Newbie mistake.

But as far as searching for an answer on the site before joining? Except for that first hit off a search, the only other thing I knew how to access at that time were the day's posts. Wouldn't have gotten me very far if I'd come in with a question.
Fair enough. Point taken. I didn't know how to access anything on the forum either when I first found it. That's why I took the time to look around and figure things out before asking my first question. I "thought" that's the way most people did things. After all, we don't walk into a grocery store and pay for our groceries before buying them. To me it's just doing things a little backwards. I would rather know what I am getting into before getting into it than afterward. I can't be the only one.
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
  #135  
Old October 1st, 2010, 03:23 PM
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I've evidently always been backwards. But I doubt I'm the only one
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  #136  
Old October 1st, 2010, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
I've evidently always been backwards. But I doubt I'm the only one
Nope. In fact I am beginning to get the feeling like I am the backward one.
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
  #137  
Old October 1st, 2010, 03:45 PM
driver8 driver8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
So let’s ask this question. If a newbie is joining should they not take the time to look through the site to see if their question has been asked/answered before? In reality if we have answered the same question 5 or 6 times in a week I think anyone is bound to get a little off kilter. Now follow my skewed thinking here. You may say “What if they need a fast answer to the question they are asking?” Then, in reality, does that not qualify as an emergency and they should be contacting their vet? Why are they on the computer asking questions on a pet forum where we can not "legally", as already pointed out, answer medical questions?
All I am saying is if I am joining a forum where I hope to stick around and meet wonderful people I would take the time to suss out the feel of the forum before joining.
We talk about all the times we greet newbies with “hostility”. What about all of the times we welcome people to the forum and beg them to post pictures? How many never ever come back after posting once of twice? I bet you will find the answer a little shocking. We weren’t “mean” to them. They just didn’t bother coming back.
I used to run a forum elsewhere, not about pets. I found out the hard way, that no, people will not read what's already been posted. They don't make that effort when they are just new. IF they are "hooked" by the responses and discussion to their first post, they might come back and look a little more.

I think of it as someone just coming to your house the first time. Most first guests don't feel comfortable looking in each cupboard to find where you keep the coffee cups on the first visit, they are more hesitant and stay in the front room, etc.

There are many reasons people don''t come back, and only one of them is less-welcoming responses from existing members. Lots of people just aren't interested in posting lots and being part of a community. Some people just don't use the internet like that. Maybe in a year, they might remember the site again when they have another question, something like that.

On the place I used to run, we found we had to be certain that new members agreed to the rules before they were allowed to join. Otherwise people would get very nasty and defensive and act like it was unreasonable to expect them to actually read the rules before join. So if the pets.ca forum as a group (it seems like its just a few very vocal people right now?) wants a formal policy on whether people must be pro-spay/neuter, anti-breeder, anti-certain foods, anti-toilet training, and all the other things people object to when unsuspecting newbies post - I would suggest formalizing it in the rules people must agree to when they first join.
  #138  
Old October 1st, 2010, 03:56 PM
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that might make things run smoother, but then theres no real freedome of speech. people come one here with different values and opinions. but they are roughly all the same. i came on here and i was against spaying/neutering.
now though, im ok with it, and will spay/neuter any animal i get.
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  #139  
Old October 1st, 2010, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driver8 View Post
On the place I used to run, we found we had to be certain that new members agreed to the rules before they were allowed to join. Otherwise people would get very nasty and defensive and act like it was unreasonable to expect them to actually read the rules before join. So if the pets.ca forum as a group (it seems like its just a few very vocal people right now?) wants a formal policy on whether people must be pro-spay/neuter, anti-breeder, anti-certain foods, anti-toilet training, and all the other things people object to when unsuspecting newbies post - I would suggest formalizing it in the rules people must agree to when they first join.
Again, fair 'nough. Now how would you propose to go about that? On most of the different sites I have been on where they want you to agree to the rules before you join you do it with a simple check. Grand idea in theory. In reality how many people read those rules before checking the box? I suppose the most important sections could be bolded and half an inch high so people can't say they "didn't see it" before clicking. Other than that when a simple click lets you on a site why bother reading the rules? Are you saying when they later say I didn't see that and someone points out it's in the rules that they had to click before they became a member that they will act any better?
I think the whole part of cassiek starting this thread was to try to say that it is not always the senior members that react badly. Sometimes it's the newbie coming in with preconceived ideas. Should we react to that? No. Do we? Yes. It's human nature.
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
  #140  
Old October 1st, 2010, 04:36 PM
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We had a system where you had to say "I have read the rules", make an actual reply to indicate that, before membership was approved. It meant the moderators had to approve each individual new member, but it actually did cut down a lot on conflicts.

I do not know if the admin here even want a system where there are so many values ingrained in the rules, but it is possible.
  #141  
Old October 1st, 2010, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazelrunpack View Post
I've evidently always been backwards. But I doubt I'm the only one
Nope

Quote:
Originally Posted by driver8 View Post

On the place I used to run, we found we had to be certain that new members agreed to the rules before they were allowed to join. Otherwise people would get very nasty and defensive and act like it was unreasonable to expect them to actually read the rules before join. So if the pets.ca forum as a group (it seems like its just a few very vocal people right now?) wants a formal policy on whether people must be pro-spay/neuter, anti-breeder, anti-certain foods, anti-toilet training, and all the other things people object to when unsuspecting newbies post - I would suggest formalizing it in the rules people must agree to when they first join.
Now THIS is a good idea! Even if not everyone reads it, it could be put as a disclaimer before registering; some would read it. It would be more likely to be found than the link on the forum to the same info (where the heck is that link, anyways? )
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  #142  
Old October 1st, 2010, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post
(where the heck is that link, anyways? )
There's a link right in my signature.
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  #143  
Old October 1st, 2010, 05:36 PM
driver8 driver8 is offline
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It might be a better idea to have a more private area (are there social clubs here) rather than closing off your forum to new members who don't fit the checklist of opinion criteria. I'm betting I'm not the only one who feels unwelcome at reading how enthusiastic people on here are to close off membership and disallow those who don't agree.....
  #144  
Old October 1st, 2010, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driver8 View Post
It might be a better idea to have a more private area (are there social clubs here) rather than closing off your forum to new members who don't fit the checklist of opinion criteria. I'm betting I'm not the only one who feels unwelcome at reading how enthusiastic people on here are to close off membership and disallow those who don't agree.....
Where in heaven's name did anyone say that?
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
  #145  
Old October 1st, 2010, 05:46 PM
driver8 driver8 is offline
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Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
Where in heaven's name did anyone say that?
That's what I feel like I've been reading a lot of in this thread. I hope I'm wrong.

But it feels sort of like people are saying it's fine to jump on newbies about certain issues, because well, the newbies should already know the stance of this board. So therefore, don't come here if you don't agree, we'll jump on you.


People think it's great to make it so that members have to agree to be anti-all this stuff that the established most vocal members are against - before you even join? Really?? What you want then is not a forum, what you want is a private club.
  #146  
Old October 1st, 2010, 05:47 PM
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Loki Love Loki Love is offline
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Question

So, being pro spay/neuter does that mean this forum, in general, is against all kinds of breeding - or only those classified as BYB? The 'rules' would suggest the latter, however discussions would indicate that all breeding is frowned upon.

To further that, are members that have purchased their pets from reputable breeders going to be frowned upon and have a cloud of shame linked to them?

Just curious.
  #147  
Old October 1st, 2010, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driver8 View Post
That's what I feel like I've been reading a lot of in this thread. I hope I'm wrong.
Yikes!! I think there has been a lot of reading between lines that just are not there. I have not seen that at all. All I have seen is a discussion that I thought was going fairly civilly. Strange that you would see it differently.
I believe it is time for me to bow out of this thread. I feel a strange chill.........
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Assumptions do nothing but make an ass out of u and me.

We can stick our heads in the sand for only so long before it starts choking us. Face it folks. The pet population is bad ALL OVER THE WORLD!
  #148  
Old October 1st, 2010, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
There's a link right in my signature.


Quote:
Originally Posted by driver8 View Post
That's what I feel like I've been reading a lot of in this thread. I hope I'm wrong.
I think you're wrong...I'm not hearing that at all. Even if there was a "disclaimer" it would be just that...no one would have to swear an oath to agree, but they would be duly warned that it was the prevailing sentiment of the board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki Love View Post

To further that, are members that have purchased their pets from reputable breeders going to be frowned upon and have a cloud of shame linked to them?
I don't think so. I hope not.
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Owned by:
Solomon - black DSH - king of kitchen raids (11)
Gracie - Mutterooski X - scary smart (9)
Jaida - GSD - tripod trainwreck and gentle soul (4)
Heidi - mugsly Boston Terrier X - she is in BIG trouble!!! (3)
Audrey - torbie - sweet as pie (11 months)
Patrick - blue - a little turd (but we like him anyways) (6 months)
__________
Boo, our Matriarch (August 1 1992 - March 29 2011)
Riley and Molly
  #149  
Old October 1st, 2010, 05:54 PM
driver8 driver8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14+kitties View Post
Yikes!! I think there has been a lot of reading between lines that just are not there. I have not seen that at all. All I have seen is a discussion that I thought was going fairly civilly. Strange that you would see it differently.
I believe it is time for me to bow out of this thread. I feel a strange chill.........
Reading Loki Love's post above and a few others that talk about how they got their dogs firm breeders and wondered if this was frowned on, etc - I don't think you need to leave the thread, 14+, but I also don't think I'm so completely off base. I've felt a chill in threads where new (and not so new) people with good intentions are jumped on.
  #150  
Old October 1st, 2010, 05:57 PM
driver8 driver8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendyfoot View Post




I think you're wrong...I'm not hearing that at all. Even if there was a "disclaimer" it would be just that...no one would have to swear an oath to agree, but they would be duly warned that it was the prevailing sentiment of the board. .
Do you think it is the prevailing sentiment on the board? I'm not so sure. Definitely the more vocal people are very strong on it.
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