The ethics of zoos

[Shamrock]

Just recently, Harvey the hippo died here at a local privately-run zoo.
Though the zoo's operators stated it was a natural and umpreventable death, he only reached half the expected lifespan for such an animal in captivity.
His companion Gertrude died last year, also in her twenties, when she crashed through a frozen pond and drowned.
http://www.zoocheck.com/action/?articleID=217

No matter how big the enclosure, no matter how their environment is "duplicated".. its still a duplcation, and a very limiting and restricting one at that.
We know that many zoo animals dont do as well, live as long. or breed successfully.
There are the watchdogs for all zoos today,who keep track of these operations, and check on them and how theiy are operating . Thank goodness for that.

Still,the whole idea of zoos seems archaic to me - like something out of different era? The days of "gawking"..
What are your thoughts on zoos? Do you feel there is still merit in these, an important educational opportunity for children and adults to observe and learn about wildlife?

[raingirl]

Well, I know that I will probably get some some flack from this, but I love zoos. Always have, always will. I grew up right beside the Toronto Zoo and went there almost every weekend all my life!

Then again, I also did anthropology in University, and took some primate studies courses. If there wasn't zoos, many of the things we know about genetics and behaviour of primates wouldn't have been discovered.

I still love going to the toronto zoo on a cold winter day, when it's empty and peaceful.

I forget the stats but something like 90% of the animals in the toronto zoo are endangered or rescued. That makes me feel good. I think the rest are there for breeding programs for species at risk.

Now something like "african lion safari", that place is a crock and should be shut down.

[Schwinn]

We took my sister to the Toronto Zoo once...once! She spent the whole time lamenting how they should be out and running free. Finally I turned and said, "Yes, it'll be much easier then for the poachers to be able to get all these endangered animals". I think zoos are a valuable resource to not only learn about animals, but also to help preserve the species. I do think that some zoos are not in it for the betterment of wildlife, but profit only. But I also think that the majority of the major zoos are a good thing, and without them, we would have even fewer species around today. Also, many zoos have programs to release animals back into the wild.

[Jackie467]

i wish all animals could live in their natural wild enviroment but unfortunetly because of man thats not always possible. like tigers for instance, they are nearly extinct because of poaching and loss of habitat. if there weren't any tigers in captivity they would probably disapear forever. white tigers are very rare and there are not any left in the wild :sad: only zoos. It's horrible but unfortunetly without zoos many speices of animals would no longer exist because of man. it's a viscous cycle, man forces them out of their home and then cages them up. but i'd rather have them in a nice encloser than gone forever because of us.

[happycats]

I have been to marineland once (dont know if its classified a zoo but), it was awful, they whales fins were bent right over, one of the buffalo was lying in the hot sun, white foam coming out of its mouth, labored breathing, looked like it was about to die. about 100 black bears all in one enclosure (they are solitary animals) a worker sells marshmellow to feed them (this must be really healthy for them) as people feed them they fight bite and claw at each other.
I left after a very short time, but not without complaining to every worker I ran into.
never ever would I go there again !!!
Also took my son to Bowmanville Zoo, saw pretty awful things there as well, ,even my son questioned certain things. Do I think it was educational for him ?? Not unless I am trying to teach him that mistreating animals is acceptable !!
I have also been to the toronto Metro Zoo many times, and they seem to truly care for the animals there.

[heeler's rock!]

I feel that some zoos contribute to the longevity of some species. The San Diego Zoo is a prime example of an excellent captive breeding program. I worked at the Calgary Zoo, and we had 2 Koalas on loan from the San Diego Zoo for interpretive programs. I found out that in Australia, there are places that let people hold the koalas and get pics taken with them!!! These places contribute to the deaths of dozens of koals a year! In captivity like that, they live 5 - 7 years, in the wild they live 10 - 12 years, and in places like the San Diego Zoo, they have lived up to 20 years!! Plus, their breeding program is very successful.

On the other hand, places like West Edmonton Mall should not keep dolphins in the middle of everything for people to see! That is way too stressful for an animal!!!! There is another "zoo" in Alberta called Gazoo which is a filthy, HORRIBLE place. They actually have tigers and lions, and let people pet them! They live in small, dirty enclosures. They have been investagated and even shut down, but they were allowed to re-open not too long ago. Why is beyond me. It's SO SAD!!!!!!!

[Carina]

Originally Posted by Jackie467

but i'd rather have them in a nice encloser than gone forever because of us.

I don't want to sound like PETA here....but what would the wild animals and birds stuck in cages or concrete enclosures want?
I don't want the only previously wild animals on the planet stuck in cages because of some selfish reasons. I say if the choice is cage them, then charge people to come look at them for education or entertainment, or let them go extinct...then let them go. The world isn't going to stay the same forever, species come & go, that is the natural order of things. Even if how some species leave the planet is "unatural" because of human intervention (and I am not really sure how unatural that is, actually) I see no point in compounding cruelty by making tigers or eagles or orangutangs into objects of entertainment.

I hate zoos.

[chico2]

I was not going to comment,but I saw some terrible conditions even at the Toronto Zoo,right after they opened.I was sooo upset over the way an Ozelot(sp?)was kept and the lions, I had to leave.
No matter how well the animals are treated,they are still an exibit,something to gawk at.
There really is no need for Zoo's today,with the Internet,TV etc.. and the World is shrinking,we can fly anywhere we want to see animals in the wild.
No animal no matter how well treated,will do well in a cage or enclosure,it's just not the way they are supposed to live.
I am 100% against Zoo's,Aquariums...etc..
At the Zoo in Stockholm,there were two magnificent Wolves,the look in there eyes were one of boredom and hopelessness,not much different from dogs in shelters,very sad.. :sad:
Even snakes,I've seen giant snakes in small glass-enclosures,they can't even move,or an Alligator place in Myrtle Beach,where they were almost laying on top of each other for lack of space...I could go on,but I won't
We as humans have no right to imprison wild animals and I hope one day we will have no more Zoo's.
The money should be spent on educating people on the importance of their wild-life and stop the export of animal-parts and wild animals to other countries,for totally inane reasons.It worked in Africa,where the natives are helping protect the Rhinos from poachers and are being compensated,it could work elsewhere...
Sorry,I am ranting,but that's how I feel

[coonlover]

We visited a private zoo in the summer on our way home from camping in a small town called Bervie, just happened upon it driving by, its on some farmland and they have a male and female lion, named Samson and Dehlila, they werd kept in 2 small cages and was pretty sad to see them like this, they have been trying to breed them for some time but Dehlila wasnt interested in Samson, they also hand 2 bengal tigers and one was sleeping with his back against the cage, the lady asked us if we wanted to pet him, we said heck yea, she said to pet him really hard because of all the flies landing on him he might have thought our hands were a fly and tried to bite . So my daughter and I, cautiously out our hand in and gave him a good scratch, she thought it was the coolest thing she had ever done. They had quite a few animals on the farm, lemers, A bear, deer, a lynx who had just sprayed before we got there and man did it smell. She also had a baby skunk and asked my daughter if she wanted to hold it, this skunk was sooooo darn cute , he was so tiny she held its tail under its bum so it wouldnt spray, they had alot of animals at the zoo but had recently been fined for having 2 wolves. I did feel really bad for some of them because they were so big to be kept in small cages, it seemed so unfair. Also one thing that really bugged me was I saw a tent near the Lions cages and she said her grandson and his friends like to camp out at night, but she had to put a stop to it because they were poking the Lions with a stick and she could hear them roaring all night at the kids, I wouldnt poke a lion with a stick..yikes. Anyway they do have a website, The bervie zoo.

[vel]

I can't go to a zoo, marine land type place or those "travelling"circus events. When my kids were small I took them to the circus and had to leave when they started piling kids on the elephant, I choked up just before when they brought out the tigers............but the elephant broke my heart, I understand now why you hear stories about elephants after 20 years of "doing tricks"turn on the owner and go crazy...............I would too. Don't like them, I think they are cruel and for me its like looking at "puppy mill" pictures....

[chico2]

I was going to comment,but then I saw,I already did,in January 2005

[LM1313]

I'm okay with zoos, but they have an obligation to keep their animals as comfortable as possible and give them an appropriate space to live in, not just toss them into a concrete enclosure with a couple of fake trees.

Also, I think some animals should never be kept in zoos due to their natural habits. At the top of the list would be elephants, who were meant to live in family groups and roam many miles every day. The Elephant Sanctuary is a much better set up for elephants.

I do hate circuses. Beautiful animals trained to do stupid tricks, hoorah. And clowns are scary.

[MyBirdIsEvil]

I love going to zoos, and I haven't seen any animals being mistreated at any of the major ones, but most of those zoos aren't there to profit.
There is a need for zoos, without them many animals in need of rescue would have nowhere to go. Also, with their breeding programs they have the power to help many endagered species.
Zoos HAVE to let people in to see the animals in order to make money and keep up their programs. Most of the zoos I've been to use the money they make on the animals, on making their enclosures better and bigger, educating people, and many other good things.
We were recently at some zoo (can't remember which one) and they had several prey birds in large cages. We were horrified and questioned one of the women there on why they were in those cages. It turned out they were all rescues that had been injured in some way, and none of them could see or fly well so they couldn't be released into a larger enclosure or back into the wild. They'd taken them in to be rehibilitated but these ones hadn't recovered enough to be released. Every time you see something that you wonder about question someone who works there, it's not always as bad as it seems.

Also, I think some animals should never be kept in zoos due to their natural habits.

I would much rather large animals be kept in sanctuaries but the problem is money and space. Many zoos often DO release their animals to large sanctuaries if there is space available. Most zoos would often rather build larger spaces for their own animals too, but they have money constraints since they rely on admission and donations.

I do agree on the circuses though, I used to think it was fun when I was a little kid, but then I learned how they often mistreat the animals, and there's really no reason for most of them to be there in the first place.

I think what everyone should be against is the importation and sale of the animals in the first place for personal use. NO ONE should be allowed to breed a tiger or any other large wild animal for personal gain or profit, and NO ONE should be allowed to buy one just because they can. There's absolutely no reason for having your own big cat or any other similarly wild non-native animal, and I don't see why it's legal in many places in the first place. Many zoos take in animals that originally belonged to someone that shouldn't have had them, and the zoos most often aren't the bad guy.