i have satans dog

[StaceyB]

Well said Trinite

You can also exercise by playing fetch. Training exercises will also help to tire him out. I have my students play fetch(practice cue give), and hide and seek(practice come and wait). Exercise and training can be made fun. OP as for crating your life and his will be less stressful if he is unable to touch and chew items which are classified as no chew items. It is possible that he is maturing later than some, hitting adolescence late. You will need to puppy proof your home the same you would do with a young pup. He may be a little older but his skills are not developed.

[justncase]

Originally Posted by Trinitie

Why do you insist this dog has pica? The dog chews. Plain and simple. My puppy chews anything she can get her mouth on, and she doesn't have pica. It's a training issue, otherwise we could accuse the OP of keeping the dog malnourished. Nowhere does the OP state that the dog is not eating his food. He simply states that the dog is chewing anything and everything. Please do not read more into it than is stated..

Why would you insist that the dog doesn't? Do you know about the symptoms exhibited for pica? Is it possible this dog is malnourished? Just because the OP has had the dog for 5 months doesn't mean that the malnutrition didn't start long before that and such things can't easily be corrected by, what did the OP say he fed his dog ....."my old school way of thinking is buy the cheapest dog food you can find." Either way, what's there against feeding a dog the best nutrition one can afford with added supplements? No harm done by that even if it turns out that the dog doesn't have pica . I don't know though about making a judgment call about a dog one has never met, and not knowing the history or health of this dog yet surmising that this dog automatically only needs training and/or crating.

Originally Posted by Trinitie

The OP says that they THINK the dog has been abused. Yes, the dog may have been abused, that's not being ruled out. BUT, it does primarily appear to be a training issue. Only telling the OP to work on pica and feed the dog the "best you can afford with the added supplements" is NOT the way to go. The most expensive food does not guarantee the BEST food. With the best food, supplements are not needed...

Nowhere, that I can find does the OP say he THINKS that the dog has been abused however he does say " Im almost positive he was abused by his old owners."
Also, if you reread my posts I didn't state that just feeding the dog was the only way to go, but that it should be considered first. If the dog really needs training and discipline and is fed what he needs nutritionally , it isn 't as damaging as having a malnourished dog put into training and crating without taking any steps to correct the original problem. Also, I didn't say that the most expensive was the best, I said " the best you can afford" . There's a difference. A big difference. The best means the best, which is not always the most expensive. The best means it IS the most nutritionally balanced not that it says it's the most nutritionally balanced( not always the case) .

[StaceyB]

Pica is ingesting non food items. All he says is that the dog chews. He doesn't say that he is eating these items.
As I mentioned, giving him a better quality food is great but if the dog is receiving a balanced diet, giving him supplements can actually cause health problems and seeing that he is still growing one of these problems can severely interfere with proper growth.

[Trinitie]

While we all know the symptoms of pica, and that it's not a physical problem, but more of a compulsion, we don't seem to understand how you can think it's a psychological problem. If it were only psychological, it wouldn't be trying to chew the other dog, it would be trying to eat it.

justncase, it appears you do not like to be contradicted. This is a training issue. I'm 100% certain that if the OP begins training his dog as he would a pup, then the dog would come around. Lab mixes are quite smart, and he should catch on quickly.

Also, I agree 10000% with feeding the dog a better quality food. I quoted what you said. If you said "best you can afford with the added supplements", then that's what I typed. Will the best possible dog food affordable make a difference? No. Nutro is a very good quality dog food, and is VERY affordable. Costco's Kirkland Dog Food is even cheaper than Nutro, and it's just as good. The label is where it all comes to a boil, not the price & the label. Do not put words in my "hands". And yes, I do read your posts. I even re-read them over again to make certain I wasn't taking anything out of context. My main concern is the dog's behaviour. What are you concerned about?

[lezzpezz]

If I may put in my 2 cents worth. I am not a dog professional as you, Trinitie, are. I have even come to you with questions about training issues and you have been extremely helpful and kind.

I am also not overly knowledgeable regarding pet dietary needs. You, Justncase, seem to have some expertise in this area. You both have terrific ideas and both seem to want the best for the dog in question, and are approaching the issue from different angles.

I think that both avenues you 2 have suggested are most worthy in this case. Training is a must with any dog and this one certainly seems to fall into the "I need guidance and I need it now!" category. Such a rambunctious that needs to be tuckered out every day and needs lots of exercise. That is plainly evident.

Diet is also crucial at this stage of the dogs life, (and althroughout!...hey...I just invented a word! ). A sickly dog is going to show signs of distress, whether by chewing or licking, biting whathaveyou, (another new word??).

What I am unclear on is why the need to get so sticky about it, Justincase? You are BOTH educated folks willing to give your time and free advice to this person. It is just awful sitting back and reading the animosity that is building.

Let's simply say: Get the dog some immediate training and look into something called "pica" and get the dog on a well balanced nourishing healthy diet and call it a day...the poor op reading this must think he walked into a "cat"fight and may leave the board!

For FREE!! materials on training AND healthy diets for dogs, go to your local library and sign them out! Perhaps both Trinitie and Justncase could suggest some appropriate books to look for, as there are a lot of different types of training methods out there, some outdated, some not-so-good and effective. But at the library, all is free and available

[Trinitie]

Very well said lezzer! The dog's well being are THE most important here.

I hope the OP hasn't been scared away by all this!

[Dog Dancer]

I'm certainly not a professional on this subject, but sounds like a training thing to me also. I have been told by our trainer that if you incorporate your training into your walks the dog will be more tired at the end of a 20 minute walk than just a 20 minute walk alone. IE: He's got to think and work for the 20 minutes he's out there. It's mentally stimulating and exhausting. Further, clomicalm is not a really good option as it's very expensive. The OP has to work this dog's brain it sounds like. Good luck and bless your patience. As an owner of a dog with separation anxiety I know how tough dog issues can be. And killing them just isn't an option.

[justncase]

I think that's exactly what I said several posts ago:

Originally Posted by justncase

Either way, what's there against feeding a dog the best nutrition one can afford with added supplements? No harm done by that even if it turns out that the dog doesn't have pica .

That's why all things should be taken into consideration. Pica is not a psychological disorder nor does the animal actually have to ingest for it to be called pica . According to Dr. Martin Schulman, V.M.D. " an astonishingly high percentage ( of dogs) showed significant manifestations of pica, an eating disorder caused by malnutrition.'..." In one case a German Shepherd dog had a history of licking wrought iron and eating glass and Christmas tree lights. An improved diet supplemented with plant-derived colloidal minerals, digestive enzymes, and probiotic foods cured the pica within three weeks."

What if this dog had been trained and crated instead. What would have been the end result of that misdiagnosis?

Lezzerpezzer says " What I am unclear on is why the need to get so sticky about it, Justincase? "

Actually, clarification. It doesn't help anyone to be misquoted within a post or two of one's original post. All I said was, get the nutrition down first, and then I added, deal with the other things later. What's the problem with that? .

Trinitie states "My main concern is the dog's behaviour. What are you concerned about?"

Behavior is just one small part of what makes up an animal and to discount all the rest in favour of behavior is to do a huge disservice to the animal in question. What am I concerned about? I'm concerned with this dog's health, welfare and that the right solution , not a one-size-fits-all solution, is found for this dog.

[Prin]

PLEASE don't advise anybody to feed raw meat AND kibble!! PLEASE!

Don't feed raw meat and kibble together!! Your dog will get E.coli or Salmonella etc because the kibble slows the digestion down. I just hate it when people get it---- I definitely don't want any doggies to get it!!

[StaceyB]

You just did.
I would like to say again, dogs who are getting a balanced diet should not have supplements, especially puppies and young dogs still growing.

[justncase]

Originally Posted by Prin

PLEASE don't advise anybody to feed raw meat AND kibble!! PLEASE!

Don't feed raw meat and kibble together!! Your dog will get E.coli or Salmonella etc because the kibble slows the digestion down. I just hate it when people get it---- I definitely don't want any doggies to get it!!

Do you have a reference source for that because I'm getting conflicting information from elsewhere?(Did I mention " kibble" specifically? I don't believe I did.)

[Trinitie]

justncase - the fine line I mentioned in the other post (sick pom) is getting thinner by the post. Keep up the condesending attitude towards those trying to clarify posts you are making and you'll indeed find you're not going to be very welcome here any longer.

[justncase]

What do you want me to say? I AM getting conflicting information elsewhere. Do you want me to discount the info I have in favour of ......?? I need a reference source if I'm going to discount the info I have and I don't think I'm remiss in requesting it.

[Prin]

Originally Posted by justncase

Did I mention " kibble" specifically? I don't believe I did

Pretty much, yeah. Unless you are writing poetry and we all have to "decode" it, common knowledge is that "dog food" is kibble, especially if you are adding raw meat to it. You wouldn't have specified "add raw" if you were referring to a raw diet, would you have?

Originally Posted by justncase

I would say improve the diet to the best you can afford ,a really good high-quality dog food with meat not just corn and fillers and add lots of raw beef

[Prin]

Originally Posted by justncase

Do you have a reference source for that because I'm getting conflicting information from elsewhere?(Did I mention " kibble" specifically? I don't believe I did.)

Here:
From this site:
http://www.rawnaturaldiet.com/faq

Kibble and raw food are digested differently, and should never be fed together, in the same meal. If you feed dry kibble at the same meal as the raw meat, you are increasing the amount of time the food is in the body, and increasing the possibility of illness from microbes.

From this site:
http://www.raw4dogs.com/KIBBLE-COMPARE.htm

If you just have to do kibble, here is a comparison of ingredients of two top brands. Just be advised to NOT combine kibble and raw in the same meal, as both have very different digestion times. Raw = 6 hours Kibble = 12 to 14 hours

From this site:
http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm#kibble

Kibble and raw food are digested differently, and should NEVER be fed together, in the same meal. If you feed dry kibble at the same meal as the raw meat, you are increasing the amount of time the food is in the body, and increasing the possibility of illness from microbes. So, if you want to feed half & half, feed kibble one meal, raw the next.

From this site:
http://www.healthy-paws.ca/faqs.htm#2

It is not recommended to feed kibble and raw foods in the same meal. Kibble digests at a much slower rate than raw. If you send them down for processing at the same time, the raw food will be trapped with the kibble food and could cause problems with bacteria and digestion.

[justncase]

Originally Posted by Trinitie

justncase - the fine line I mentioned in the other post (sick pom) is getting thinner by the post. Keep up the condesending attitude towards those trying to clarify posts you are making and you'll indeed find you're not going to be very welcome here any longer.

Originally Posted by Prin

Pretty much, yeah. Unless you are writing poetry and we all have to "decode" it, common knowledge is that "dog food" is kibble, especially if you are adding raw meat to it. You wouldn't have specified "add raw" if you were referring to a raw diet, would you have?

Prin:
I know that you are not trying to be condescending with me and only want clarification on this so , for that reason , I will try to clarify this further. " Dog food" can mean many things, it can mean kibble, but it can also mean canned, the 100 percent natural kind sold in chubs and also the kind that's frozen, also 100 natural meaning no preservatives, or by-products etc. When I said " get the best dog food you can afford and add lots of raw beef " I meant for the OP to buy the best he could afford. To assume what the OP could afford would have been pretentious so I left it up to the OP to check into it further, to ask at pet stores what they could offer and see whether it was in his budget or not. It would have been very very helpful if members here could have added some insight as to what they found was a really good dog food- commercial and othewise to help him in this quest. As for adding raw beef to the dog food, that would depend on what quality of dog food the OP could afford. Is raw beef bad to give a dog? Not according to my sources. If it is, then I would need some reference that can substantiate that. Does this dog have pica? I don't know. He fits all of the signs, pretty well a textbook case. I have been reprimanded for even suggesting it but isn't it better to suggest it as a possibility then not to suggest it at all? What if the dog actually has it and no one knew? Hopefully, the OP's dog doesn't have it, hopefully, all of this is very easily corrected for both the dog and the OP. As for adding supplements to the diet of a young dog, that is msot likely not necessary for a normal dog under normal curcumstances but if this dog has pica then it cannot be corrected without the supplements that were mentioned. No amount of nutrition is going to fix it without those supplements . So the question is, does the dog have pica or not? It has been suggested as a possibility. Now, it would seem that it's up to the OP to investigate further if he wants to know the answer to that question.

[Trinitie]

I think we should all shake hands and move on. With luck, the dog doesn't have pica, or behaviour problems that can't be corrected.

You're very knowledgable, and I repect that. We both didn't want to back down, but I will be the first to say "I'm sorry I got out of control". Let's put our respective knowledge together and move forward with the help of our little furry friends (and people friends too). What say you?

[Prin]

Justncase, nothing is wrong with feeding raw meat. The problem arises when kibble is mixed with raw meat. The kibble slows down digestion, making the dog more susceptible to E coli, Salmonella and other bacteria that can be found in meat.

I think it all is about being clear. Not too many people actually know about feeding a raw diet and we certainly don't want them mixing kibble and raw!

[StaceyB]

Originally Posted by justncase

I would say improve the diet to the best you can afford ,a really good high-quality dog food with meat not just corn and fillers .

I really don't want to get in the middle of all of this but I thought I would mention that seeing that the OP said that he already feeds the cheapest food(didn't say what kind) I would have assumed from your post and the OP's that they were referring to kibble.

[LavenderRott]

Well, I don't agree with diagnosing a dog that one can't see and evaluate online, so I will just give you my opinion.

Labradors chew. It is a fact of life that just can't be avoided. Bored Labradors chew even more. Every single lab owner that I have ever known has told me that their dog chewed anything he/she could get in their mouth until they were about 2 years old. Heck, I knew a lady many years ago who's lab pulled things off the wall to chew!

A crate, for those times when you can't be home or are home but must have your attention elsewhere is a must. And training. And more training. And more training. Don't just exercise the dog's body, you must exercise his mind too.

[lezzpezz]

And as many know, crating a dog also takes training. Can't just put the dog in and close the door and voila, the problem is solved. Just thought that the OP would need to be advised that crating a dog will require a gradual learning process, so the dog does not freak out. No need to add anxiety to the mix! There are also many good books out there on how to properly crate train a dog and likely some excellent tips available on this very site.....just thought this should be mentioned so that the OP didn't think that crating was a quick fix solution to a much heftier problem

[Prin]

Originally Posted by LavenderRott

Labradors chew. It is a fact of life that just can't be avoided. Bored Labradors chew even more. Every single lab owner that I have ever known has told me that their dog chewed anything he/she could get in their mouth until they were about 2 years old. Heck, I knew a lady many years ago who's lab pulled things off the wall to chew!

My old lab chewed till she was 11!!! Yes, labs chew. They chew like crazy. That's probably why there are so many 6 month-2 year old labs at the SPCA. They make cute puppies but become a handful very quickly. You have to take the bad with the good.

[marvandmisty]

it is true that you should train this dog but also just try playing with it or taking it to the contry and let it run. play catch and all kinds of games let him have fun and wear him out. like they said he needs excersize. we had a fuul grown dog that we gave to our cousin that did not chew on anything, but now thatour cuz has him he chews up everything, and that is how we know he is not getting the attention he needs. like they said excersize and training will help. We are getting our dog back and i bet the chewing stops. it will probably take some time though there is no quick fix to this. but that is just my opinion

[justncase]

Originally Posted by Trinitie

I think we should all shake hands and move on. With luck, the dog doesn't have pica, or behaviour problems that can't be corrected.

You're very knowledgable, and I repect that. We both didn't want to back down, but I will be the first to say "I'm sorry I got out of control". Let's put our respective knowledge together and move forward with the help of our little furry friends (and people friends too). What say you?

I didn't see this as a contest of wills, however, it is regrettable that you did. All I try to do is provide information along with everyone else. Who's to say who is right? I don't know if anyone here can diagnose a pet sight-unseen, or would want to. All one can really do is to offer some ideas and possible direction. When all is said and done, it's up to each OP to take the next step.

[keenya]

my puppy used to be very much like that... it took a lot of patience with her... there is this stuff you can get at any pet store I think Walmart even carries it... it is called Bitter Apple i think.. thats what it tastes like anyway.. there are other ones called Fooey and such.. but anyway... my puppy used to eat everything from rugs to furniture to the deck.. you name it she chewed.. all we did was sprayed some of this stuff on her tongue and brought her around to everything she chewed on and made her watch us spray the stuff... she has not touched any of it since...
if there is an open field or a not so busy beach near you... try taking your dog out there for a couple hours... we do that with our puppy when she starts bouncing off the walls again and she tires her self out so much from chasing the birds and sticks and balls that she sleeps the whole way home then for a couple hours after she gets home...
we used to buy her the really expensive toys... the ones that are "indestructible"... yeah well she destroyed them all.. one toy we found that she absolutely loves in a raw hide bone that we get from walmart for like $8... it is probably 14 inches long and about 3 inches in diametre and it is a solid bone... it takes her almost a week to completely destroy one of those... but it keeps her occupied... also the rubber balls you can get with the squeaky thing in them... she keeps herself occupied for hours with those... and she tires herself out... or if you side about 10 feet away from the top of a set of stairs and throw the ball down the stairs and have your puppy bring it back that tires them out too...

just some suggestions...

[StaceyB]

Originally Posted by keenya

or if you side about 10 feet away from the top of a set of stairs and throw the ball down the stairs and have your puppy bring it back that tires them out too...

I would not suggest having your dog run down stairs. It is not safe.

[VIOLET0019]

I believe in you and say BRAVO and thank you for being so kind in rescuing this dog. FIRST I MUST ASK: Is the name of your dog Satandog? Please let me know, as I have missed what his name is? You have received soooooooo much advice. Please be careful. I know everyone means well, but not all of the suggestions are so easy to do! Putting your dog in a crate, for example - one cannot just put their dog in a crate without knowing about putting a rescued, abused dog in a crate - please be careful on all that you do. TAKE IT EASY, GO SLOW. I also rescued a dog (part Pomeranian and part Yorkshire Terrier-her name is Baby) and she had a terrible life being beaten, kept in a cage, never trained, never walked, slept and did her toilet in the cage, left in there for days as the owners went away out of town, needless to say, she has many issues. BUT, I LOVE HER! AND ALTHOUGH I RESCUED HER, I TRULY BELIEVE SHE RESCUED ME!! I believe in you - the most important thing with a dog that has been abused is that we MUST have PATIENCE, we must think on every action we take, every word we say, how we talk & our tone - LISTEN TO YOUR VOICE, of how he hears you. IMPORTANT TIP - PLEASE DO NOT SCREAM AND BE ANGRY AT YOUR DOG! If you feel angry, frustrated, etc.....take a deep breath, and speak low, speak soft, speak calm. Otherwise, any progress you make, if he loses the TRUST, then it will be like taking 10 steps back!! I have NEVER raised my voice to Baby, NEVER! All of those months, cleaning up diarrhea all over the house, several times a day.......all the times I had to stop, take a breath and work very hard, very patiently in FIRSTLY and most importantly, gaining her TRUST in me (which even today, every single day, she STILL is not 100% sure that I will not beat her!!!) But I understand, I love her, and I MUST find PATIENCE for her, even though it is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO hard, when I am tired, when I am ill and need to FIND the patience, at any given moment, to take care of her needs - it is a 24/7 committment, when one rescues a dog, or any animal - BUT, how wonderful to be able to have all that it takes to take in an abused animal, to rescue an animal, and give them a loving, safe home, for the rest of their lives!!! They come to us, having "paid their dues" sort of speak, and those of us who have this special ability, like you, to be able to be strong, loving, patient and understanding, to be selfless ....... that is something to be proud of!!! I hope that you will continue to write in to this site, for help, to hear the experiences of others, the ideas others may give you, so that hopefully you will have some help in taking care of your dog. PLEASE - use POSITIVE ENCOURAGEMENT, when training your dog, i.e. each time he is learning, and does what you want, give him a crunchy (kibble food - carry some in your pocket at ALL TIMES, so that at any instant, when he listens to you, REMEMBER - always give him a treat, and ALWAYS SAY: GOOD BOY! GOOD BOY! and give him a pat, or scratch on the chest, or whatever else which you know that he likes!! I PROMISE, that if you have patience and are willing to go down this road, although it is a long road, and it may take a long time, I PROMISE, if you ALWAYS REMEMBER TO USE KIND ENCOURAGING WORDS TO YOUR DOG SEVERAL TIMES EVERY SINGLE DAY - you will see that your dog will begin to learn. IT IS ABOUT TRUST - your dog needs to trust you. He has been through horrible times, and you have come into his life and him into your life.......for a reason. I believe in fate, and you two were brought together.
ALSO, do not use many words when training or teaching your dog anything at all. ALWAYS BEGIN WITH HIS NAME (to get his attention) and then say what you want to say, for example: "SATANDOG!" GOOD BOY! or "SATANDOG!" COME! ................... From my personal experience, and from others who I have suggested this advice, I have always heard back that everyone says that this is good advice, and also REMEMBER: POSITIVE ENCOURAGEMENT AND A KIBBLE! TAKE CARE! YOU CAN DO IT!!

I bought this dog from a kill shelter and when i got him he was over a year old. now, this dog chews and i mean he chews wires, bottles, carpet, beds, walls, cats pretty much anything that can be chewed he chews. he has many many real bones (the ones that cost a lot) and the bones that can be easily chewed. i know for a fact he has had some training because hes one stupid dog but he knows the sit and lay down commands. not only does he chew he also cant sit still for more than 5 seconds and he only sleeps like an hour a night. im almost postive he was abused by his old owners because he gets startled very easily and he always has to be close to you.

now getting rid of him really isnt an option cause he would be put to sleep if he goes back to a kill shelter cause hes a really big dog and if someone were to test him if to see his temper he would fail cause he will snap at you if you try and take away whatever hes chewing. also this dog is just so darn helpless i mean he got caught in a phone wire not really caught but he though he did so he just stood there and whined till i got him loose. i just cant see myself giving him a death sentence i mean im sure he doesnt mean to be this way and hes a very good looking dog.


i know my grammar is bad but any info of maybe meds or something to help him would mean all the world to me

thanks[/QUOTE]