New designer breed *sigh*

[happycats]

Thanks all, it seems the educated of this forum, knew exactly what I meant by this post

The only uneducated mouth runner here is..........the sucker who paid "2 G's" for a MUTT!!!
You and uneducated people like you keep puppy mill's and BYB in business since you paid 2 G's for a mutt, they (BYB and puppy mills )must be laughing all the way to the bank!

Give it a fancy name like "Bassador" and fools like you pay, and the poor dog's suffer!!

Just because you paid 2 G's for your dog, doesn't make you a good dog owner, or an educated person!

[Cram]

The Alaskan Klee Kai was bred similarly. Only one person started the breed (Linda Spurlin in the 1970's) and had complete control over selecting the pups for further breeding. The puppies weren't available to the general public until about 10 years ago and the UKC opened their registry to them in 1999 I think- and closed the books this January. Again, the Klee Kai fill a niche- not for cuteness, but for a reasonably sized northern breed dog for city dwellers (other than the American Eskimo). They have less energy than a big husky and are much more loyal and easy to handle, while still retaining the husky look and independence. All the dogs are followed as well and very few breeders actually exist. They also have fewer health problems because they were bred from health tested dogs originally and any who do not meet the standard are not bred (for example, our little guy because he is a cryptorchid). That is how a breed should be developed, not by every person who wants to make a buck on the cute names/ hypoallergenic hybrids.

[Skryker]

Hear, hear, Cram!

[i_have_too_many]

Maybe with the name of "Bassador" they think it will be a good "embassador" for other dogs?

Just another marketing ploy. I have talked to people who could not give away a litter of mixed puppies they had, but once they asked for some money, they went quick. People will pay for anything, especially if they think it is "special" or "one of a kind". There are many pure breeds that are just as rare, and more reliable. Like those two just mentioned, I have not heard of either.

Oh well, the madness will never end.

[trippincherri]

Well I don't know how to feel on this subject :sad: .
As many of you know I have a Basset/Rotti mix, but before you judge me let me explain why I have him and PAID money for him.

A few years ago I worked in the pet store here in our town, and ended up quitting after realising my boss was a backyard breeder and all animals in the store were from her home. I'm talking EVERYTHING was from her house: rabbits,guinea pigs,a variety of birds, fish, kittens, puppies, degus, chinchillas you name it she would breed it.
I got asked to go clean her "pet shed" one week at her home while she was out of town, and nearly died when I seen how many animals she had and how neglected they were. I tried to speak to her about their conditions and that she shouldn't be breeding animals like that and contributing to the pet OVER- population. She got angry with me and I quit.
I went so far as to send the SPCA after her, but they said that the pets main needs were being met and they could not step in.

Anyway fast forward 2 years and she phones me up to help her out for a few weeks at the store since she is falling behind and cannot keep staff.
I stupidly agree, and on my 1st day at work see 3 basset/rotti puppies that she has brought in from her house.
They looked pathetic and I told my boyfriend to come and see how sad they looked. They were only 5 weeks old and she had them in this little cage and all they did was lie there. She was asking $400.00 a piece for them!!!
I am a firm believer in NOT selling non-pure breds for money and this annoyed me especially since I also work with our local animal rescue and had been trying for months to encourage her to stop selling puppies.
She said the pups were an "accident" of course !
So after a few days of working there my bf and I decided that we were going to take one home, and I ended up working there only long enough to pay for my new puppy.
I immediatley took him to the vet and he was very sick he had puppy warts and was right full of worms and underweight. I was mad at how sick he was and the vet told me "just think of where he might have ended up if you hadn't taken him home?" So within days he felt much better and I now have a happy healthy 8 month old MUTT!
Yes he is not problem free, I have to watch his legs for deformaties as he grows and he cannot play as hard as our other dog because he can hurt his legs but at least I have done something good for him by taking him on as my responsibility and have educated myself on his breed(s) and what both have to offer.
I do not condone dog breeding of any kind especially when there are so many shelter dogs that need good homes, but I could not leave him lying in that cage another night.
He is goofy looking I can admit that, long bodied with an even longer tail and the stubbiest legs ever, but he is MY dog and I think he's perfect.
He is not a freak show nor should he be pitied for being born it was not his fault he ended up being what he is, and he is not stupid or lacking in manners. I thought this was a community of pet lovers???
Do not judge the dog for what he is, judge the breeder who made him!!!

[Prin]

You may have one that you love who came from not-so-great circumstances, trippin, but you're also not rushing out to tell people to get one either.

[trippincherri]

I would tell anyone to adopt a mutt, whatever the mix may be.
I do not say that he is a designer dog or give him some fancy name, I tell people what he is and laugh along when they ask "how'd that happen?".
He is an odd mix, I know that and I wouldn't recommend his "breed" being replicated hence why I got him neuteured ASAP.

I just resent the fact that SOME of you are making fun of the breed and what they look like. It is a mutt!!!
They are not supposed to be proportioned or balanced, or be health risk free, you get what you get.
People who pay a lot of money for mixed dogs are not thinking straight, I agree.... I paid money for mine so I could help him.
I would not recommend buying a mutt because yes then you are enabling the breeder.
Go to a shelter and adopt one, we were going to then we seen what a sad state Shamus was in and paid for/rescued him.

[Prin]

Yours is a cutie. I don't think anybody disputes that. But there are some mutts out there that I feel sorry for.

[Golden Girls]

He is not a freak show nor should he be pitied for being born it was not his fault he ended up being what he is, and he is not stupid or lacking in manners. I thought this was a community of pet lovers???
Do not judge the dog for what he is, judge the breeder who made him!!!Exactly my thoughts

Originally Posted by trippincherri

I just resent the fact that SOME of you are making fun of the breed and what they look like. It is a mutt!!!

You have a beautiful MUTT, thank you for rescuing him :love:

[TeriM]

Trippincherri, I agree with GG, Shamus is an adorable mutt and you did a caring, loving thing by "rescuing" him .

[trippincherri]

Thank you, he is very cute .
It was not the mix of dog that attracted me to him but his circumstance, and I have been rewarded 100 times over with love that only a grateful animal could show you,I'm glad we brought him home.

[CyberKitten]

I agree with Skylar and Ont Greys and the others - there is no way one can guarantee what the puppies of two dogs will look like. And I do not get why ppl will spend money - I assume it is them have been sold something and did not educate themselves on the issue. A mutt is a mutt is a mutt - and many of them are cute and well behaved and obedient and are available at rescues and pounds all over North America. I bet even that combination is available - and you'd be helping a Rescue group and not helping greedy and horrible puppy mills and backyard breeders who take advantage of the people who buy these dogs.

It IS about money but is also about people not taking the time to read about what are breeds and what constitutes a dog recognized by the CKC (which does not include these new mutts with fancy names). And there are s many adorable, wonderful mutts who need homes. Why on earth are we creating more???? Especially when no one can possibly know the genetic history or pedigree -which they do not have.

People take a chance buying these dogs but I guess it is their money. What hurts me is all the dogs who need homes and the poor people who lose their money to these greedy sellers. But sometimes you obviously cannot help people, esp like the one who posted here and opted to be rude instead of simply explaining why they bought the dog. I could understand someone saying, we love our dog, we just did not know.... That happens - and you fall in love with the dog. But I'd never buy a dog from a byb, a newspaper ad or a pet store to start with... so...

Anyway.... all I can say is Aaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

[OntarioGreys]

Trippincherri, your dog is gorgeous. There is a difference with you purchasing, you understood very well, where he was coming from the conditions he is raised in, as you did it as rescue.

Heck I am not against crossbred dogs, they can make as wonder a pets often as any purebred, and yes I have bought a mutt before, the person who was selling, had an accidental breeding and a oops litter. and even when someone does have an accidental oops litter, I would never suggest they just give the pups away for free, there should be at least some fee charged , and pup should have been vet checked, had first vaccinations and dewormed to cover the costs, I have more problems with the breeder that purposely breeds them for profit.

And there are a lot of dogs out there that are purebreds that come with papers that are also bred just for profit without consideration for health, temperment or conforming to breed standard and they therefore are no better bred than your rotti -basset mix Shamus. I would not want you to think this is an attack on mutts but on breeders who breed for greed and people who lay out hundreds for these pups without doing some research first

[Prin]

Yep, bad breeders are everywhere.. According to nopuppymillscanada.com, 67% of the dogs out there come from BYBs. More come from BYBs than puppymills. It's time we all become more aware and stop encouraging them by NOT buying them.

http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/back_yard_breeders.htm

Backyard breeders, or people who breed their dogs without testing and certifying their stock, produce nearly 67% of all the dogs born annually in this country (Gardner, 1994)

Edited to add: Buying them isn't rescuing them, it's encouraging the breeders. A decent human would give up an accidental litter to a rescue. That way he doesn't profit and the dogs don't go "free to a good home". And if you check petfinder, there are lots of litters ready to go.

[OntarioGreys]

Originally Posted by Prin

Yep, bad breeders are everywhere.. According to nopuppymillscanada.com, 67% of the dogs out there come from BYBs. More come from BYBs than puppymills. It's time we all become more aware and stop encouraging them by NOT buying them.

http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/back_yard_breeders.htm


Edited to add: Buying them isn't rescuing them, it's encouraging the breeders. A decent human would give up an accidental litter to a rescue. That way he doesn't profit and the dogs don't go "free to a good home". And if you check petfinder, there are lots of litters ready to go.

Prin, that is easier said than done, most rescues are trying to save animals from kill shelters, and there is already too many of them, they are a priority over pups from an accidental oops litter, which could easily be sold for $50 to help offset the costs of vetcare and caring for. Most rescues do not have shelter they are dependent on volunteer foster families and those are in very short supply, so they cannot afford to waste their resources and would likely turn away most owners who have had accidental oops litters, the litters they would help out is the ones dumped in a kill shelters if they have any room or a volunteer foster family to take them.

Sadly reality bites, so the person who has the accidental litter should be trying to do the responsible thing and try to ensure they find good homes for the pups even if it means they take a loss. But charging a fee, helps to prevent someone who might take them to resell for lab research for 10 or $20 each

[trippincherri]

I never had any intention of buying a pet store puppy,but I had to.

Our rescue group has been actively trying to convince the pet store owner to stop selling puppies and let us bring in some of our shelter dogs,but she won't make a big enough profit so she won't do it.
For her it is about the money not for the sake of the animals that need a chance.
Its a sad reality, a disgusting one.

[trippincherri]

On another note:

Our rescue society will not take Ooops litters.
By taking them we are enabling the owner, why give them an easy way out.
Taking the litter off their hands is not going to encourage them to have their dogs spayed or neutered is it? No it's going to give them an easy option. We will take dogs under surrender for a fee and sadly some people would rather dump their litters out on the highway then pay this nominal fee.
Usually we end up with the litters that are found anyway so in the end it works out
We are a rescue society to not only help the animals that are in need but to educate our community on how to be responsible pet owners and what they can do to help keep our pet population under control.

And like OntarioGreys posted about priority for other kill shelter dogs than accidental litters being higher,this is true. Abandoned and abused pets come first.

[Lissa]

A friend of mine has one of those mixes - but she rescued him from an abusive situation and it wasn't a "deliberate" breeding (it was one of those, the dog was loose and had puppies)...

He's basically a chocolate basset hound; he's a sweet but untrained dog and wasn't neutered until he was 4! His back is not healthy - can't play with other dogs, jump on the bed/couch/car because his back is so easily injured.:sad:

[technodoll]

but he's a nice looking dog, very unusual and supercute! sucks about his health problems though... people often just stop at what the dog looks like and don't think beyond that

the lab-mix i saw the other day looked like a fat, unhealthy black lab with 6" legs, big torso, big head, big tail, big tummy, stumps for legs... he was waddling and had trouble walking cuz it was so unbalanced. you could not look at it and feel anything but pity, it truly was a sad-looking creature. i understand "oops" breedings and feel sorry for that dog, it never asked to be born... but when people breed such animals *on purpose* well that is a whole other story... bassadore, indeed! what a crock!

[happycats]

Please don;t think I'm flaming the dog! I love all dog's, it's not their fault that some money hungry idiot decided to breed them and give them a fancy name, so uneducated people would pay big bucks for them.

All of the above dogs are adorable

[itscindy]

I've just gotta say something after reading so many sanctimonious posts about mixed "designer" breed dogs. I am the proud owner of a schnoodle. I prefer to call her a schnauzer/poodle cross as most people don't know what a schnoodle is and I don't want to be judged by purebred dog owners who have an attitude about designer dogs. I agree that there are huge problems created by the designer dog boom and I realize that by me purchasing one of these puppies, I've just opened up the space for some dealer to bring in another one...BUT

In my defense, I owned a purebred Welsh Terrier for 14 years. We just put sweet Rozie down on January 2nd. Despite my deep love of the breed, I couldn't...just couldn't get another Welsh. What I wanted was a dog around the same size and I love terriers but others in my family wanted a break. Also, in researching other terrier breeds I found that they are all - with the exception of the Welsh - RIFE with hereditary health issues!! I just couldn't choose a purebred dog and adopt all those health problems along with them. The list of ailments reads like a grocery list! Any time I went to a shelter (it's been over 14 years since I was dog-shopping), they were FULL of BIG, BLACK dogs...shepherd crosses, rottweiler crosses, nothing that interested me. They NEVER had puppies and they NEVER had medium sized dogs.

So tell me this...how does someone who wants a mutt but has certain size, coat and temperament criteria and doesn't want to come home from the pound with a small dog that...SURPRISE!!... grows into a monster. I did not know how to go about finding a mixed breed dog of the mix of my choosing without getting a designer dog. I wanted a puppy, not someone else's socialization mistakes. Bless those poor sweet dogs that wind up in the shelters and bless the folks who adopt them. I am a dog lover but I have my needs. There is a NEED for reputable mixed breed breeders, but the purebred dog breeders go mental if you mess with their pedigrees. Come up with a popular mix and someone will want to make money off it. It's unfortunate and disgusting but that's human nature. And probably why we all love dogs so much.

I know my little "schnoodle" might not turn out to be exactly the way I had hoped - I may even get the worst of the two breeds - but I know she'll be the size I want, and I know she'll have the feisty terrier attitude I want and I know that I did the best I could to socialize her and give her a good start. I am frustrated by this topic. I don't mean to upset anyone but I needed to defend myself and others like me who are just looking for a suitable family pet.

[Prin]

There is a NEED for reputable mixed breed breeders, but the purebred dog breeders go mental if you mess with their pedigrees

Definitely not.. There is a HUGE abundance of mutts out there without homes.

I think you misunderstand this thread a little. We're not anti-mutt. Not at all. Just if you want a mutt, go to www.petfinder.com or find another local rescue and get one. Don't encourage these people, who are just in it for the money, to keep on making money off the backs of their dogs.

[itscindy]

I understand FULLY. I just want what I want. One step away from a purebred...or two, maybe.

[Prin]

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that, but IMO, I'd rather get a dog from somebody whose intentions are good toward dogs than somebody whose motives are selfish.

[clm]

I can understand wanting a particular dog to fit into your family. If that's the case there is a purebreed dog for every situation. I don't understand why you would want say a snoodle, or a labradoodle. If you want a large non shedding dog, get a standard poodle, if you want a fiesty terrier, what's wrong with the schnauzer, if you want a small non shedding dog, there's bichons, or miniature poodles. If you want a dog with no doggy odor, then all the arctic breeds fit the bill. It took years of careful breeding to create the purebreds of today, it wasn't done haphazard and they weren't given the names of their crosses, they were given their own names or the names of their creaters. There is no justification in paying big dollars to pet stores for crosses or purebreds supplied by puppy mills in my opinion. The sooner people wake up and stop buying from pet stores the better.

Cindy

[Prin]

Great post, Cindy (clm)!

[itscindy]

I would like to agree with you, Cindy...and I do on some levels. I have been a purebred dog owner and fortunately, I chose a really good breed. But research made it difficult for me to come up with a purebred that I was excited about. A friend of mine has a standard poodle - a nice enough dog, but she doesn't do it for me, and she's REALLY nippy and very aggressive with small dogs. My daughter was partial to Westies...have you seen the list of genetic problems those little dogs can have? (I have a friend who owned 2 Westies and she confirmed that they were great little dogs with big, expensive, heart-wrenching problems.) I was looking at Schnauzers too as they are the same size and haircut as Welshies, but with more health issues and - oh, that yappy, high-pitched bark!!! Plus, my family were not excited about the Schnauzers. I spent hours of exhaustive research and found that most popular purebred dogs are rife with genetic problems due to over breeding and in-breeding. The Welsh Terrier was really the only breed I could find that has little or no genetic disorders. (I can't believe the breed is not more popular!! Ridiculously, it is thought to be because of the amount of hand-stripping that is required for show dogs in conformation - and if you don't have winning dogs, you can't make money...which, no matter how you slice it, is the underlying driving force behind ANY dog breeding) My partner saw the ad in the paper for a Schnoodle and it seemed like a really good mix to me, an answer to the breed questions I had and worth checking out. I did some research, found that it's a pretty good all-round mix and when I went to "look at puppies"...well, the rest is history. It's anyone's guess how she will turn out but at least I have a little bit more information about her background than I would if I'd picked her up at a shelter. I am not heartless, on the contrary...I just don't want to inadvertently take on someone else's mistakes. Not that I won't ever, but I don't have time right now to nurture a rescue dog. And I swear that no dog I will ever own will end up in a shelter.

Anyway, I don't want to belabor this. I do understand the importance of not contributing to the puppy-mill problem. It has been a long time since I was dog shopping and I hadn't realized how really bad it's become. I feel bad about this but I don't want to have to defend the fact that I wanted some control over the type of dog I brought home. I just wish there was a way people could get the mix they want without lining the pockets of unscrupulous puppy-mill breeders and brokers.

I'm sure there are some out there who really care about their dogs and ethically breed mixes. Unfortunately they are impossible to find. It's all about the $$$$.

We love our little Lola. She's shaping up to be a fine little pooch. She's interesting, things are not as predictable as they were with my Welsh, but it's fun learning about both breeds and watching her to see which one manifests itself in her appearance and behavior.

[OntarioGreys]

Any time I went to a shelter (it's been over 14 years since I was dog-shopping), they were FULL of BIG, BLACK dogs...shepherd crosses, rottweiler crosses, nothing that interested me. They NEVER had puppies and they NEVER had medium sized dogs.

THat is because when shelter gets a small breed they call up rescues to take them, most will not fare well in a shelter enviroment. Had you checked out small breed rescues you would have likely found a match for yourself

[Prin]

I spent hours of exhaustive research and found that most popular purebred dogs are rife with genetic problems due to over breeding and in-breeding.

As are mutts. In this age of puppymills and rampant BYB's, mutts are becoming LESS healthy than their health tested, DNA tested, pedigreed pure breed counterparts.

It's anyone's guess how she will turn out but at least I have a little bit more information about her background than I would if I'd picked her up at a shelter. I am not heartless, on the contrary...I just don't want to inadvertently take on someone else's mistakes. Not that I won't ever, but I don't have time right now to nurture a rescue dog. And I swear that no dog I will ever own will end up in a shelter.

Oh, you probably didn't get as much background info as you thought you did. You were just lucky, IMO.. So many people in your situation end up with a sick dog and only discover all the lies after everything has gone heartbreakingly sour.

I have two mutts who are rescue dogs. They're not somebody's mistakes. They are wonderful dogs, ready to learn and to be loved, who needed homes.

I wanted some control over the type of dog I brought home

You can have control over the type of dog you bring home with a rescue too, especially with an older one. EVERY dog is hard to raise. Getting a puppy with "no baggage" doesn't ensure it will be a more friendly, loving pet than a rescue dog with "baggage". I know far more people with breeder dogs, raised from scratch who envy my dogs than people with rescue dogs.

And if you can't pick what you bring home from rescue, then how did I get two dogs with the same coloring and the same white spot on their chests? I got exactly what I was looking for and it wasn't too hard to find.

[itscindy]

Yep, I searched rescue organizations, 1-800-save-a-pet, etc. but as I said, adopting a problem was not something we wanted. (I say this with the utmost respect for those of you who have adopted and nurtured wonderful, loving pets. I LOVE dogs and I would take them all home if I could. I always left the shelters bawling.) You know, rescuing isn't for everyone. I tried but the bill didn't get filled. I went elsewhere, where I could get the type of dog I wanted to fill the needs of me and my family. I wish it could have been a more reputable source, but I didn't know how to find what I wanted any other way. I did NOT go to a pet store, I knew better than that, but what I didn't know is how many dealers have popped up in the years since I was puppy shopping. I was misled and I'm angry about it...but this just adds fuel to my argument that people who buy mixed breed dogs from dealers and pet stores don't have any other reputable choice.

I know this is a very sensitive topic. (I can tell by the emails that are landing in my inbox as I type this) I really do see both sides of this. I used to be totally on your side but now I am on the other side and more understanding about how and why this is happening. I was REALLY frustrated while looking for a mixed breed. There is no other way. It's TERRIBLE the way dogs are treated in puppy mills and I am sad that I have contributed to this in my way...BUT, the purebred situation is not without its problems and unscrupulous breeders. Maybe we are just spoiled as a society - give us too many flavours of ice-cream and we become dissatisfied with our choices and want bigger, better, more. They should have just stuck to chocolate, vanilla and strawberry and we'd have been just fine. (But what would happen if you MIXED the chocolate with the strawberry?? Hmmm.)